S2 E4: Rajarshi Maitra on Bitcoin in India and the cult status of BTC communities

On June 29th 2019 I’ve had the pleasure to interview Indian bitcoiner Rajarshi Maitra. I was curious to find out more about the state of BTC adoption in the world’s second most populous country, but I ended up discovering so much more.

At first, Rajarshi has revealed to me the long journey that he has gone through in order to reach his current self-taught coder and Bitcoin developer status. As a graduate in structural engineering who has been brought up in a communist-minded community, he has performed a gradual 180-degree turn towards the more anarchist and libertarian world of Bitcoin.

Throughout the interview you also get to find out more about some cultural relations between Indians and gold – and where Bitcoin may fit in this centuries-long story. Some rather practical matters regarding social structures and interpersonal contracts are also discussed in a way that makes it easier to understand why Satoshi’s invention can make a strong and positive impact.

By the end of the interview you will find a fascinating inquiry on the cult status of Bitcoin communities. Rajarshi comes up with a somewhat appalling explanation which no longer ostracizes the cult-like practices of some groups. He also argues that a degree of religiousness is required in order to spread the ideas and keep the fundamentals intact while spreading the narrative.

You may listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or the direct RSS feed. If you find it useful, please donate BTC to the address below. As usual, 50% of all donations will be shared with the guest or a charity of their choice.

Follow Rajarshi on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RajarshiMaitra

Automatic Transcript (Helps with SEO):

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hello and welcome to the Bitcoin

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takeover

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I am Vlad and my guest today is Raj who

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is also known as Rajesh you might draw

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on Twitter and he is a prominent Indian

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Bitcoin er and he likes to tell me that

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daren't a lot of bitcoiners in India and

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he is part of that very small community

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which he has four men and he has become

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a part of so it's very fascinating to

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know more about the second most populous

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country in the world and how it actually

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goes with these innovations in the way

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we perceive money and the way we

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transact so hello Raj hey Vlad thanks

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for having me

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it's good to have you and I'm happy that

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you told me that you want to join this

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podcast after you have listened I think

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it was the John Carvalho podcast that

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you listened yeah yeah yeah so that was

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the podcast that we posted in Twitter

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and I was suggesting people to listen to

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you because there there seems to be a

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lot of great content but not enough

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viewership so I thought like this is a

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very important work that you are doing

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there is interesting conversations that

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are coming out of it and I am just going

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to promote it as much as I can in small

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little communities I have I'm very

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grateful for that by the way and I'm

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happy and opportunity to talk because

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it's always fascinating to talk with

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other people yeah sir I guess that's why

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I'm doing this and I like giving the

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chance to speak to people who otherwise

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wouldn't get this opportunity because

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you know this is a very large community

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in Bitcoin and there are lots of people

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with different backgrounds doing lots of

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interesting stuff and usually if you

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look at Bitcoin podcasts you're going to

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see that

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the shows tend to have the same guests

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and you're going to have this situation

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where you end up listening to a

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different podcast but the same person

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saying basically the same stuff

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promoting their company and you know you

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get PR mode in various places so to me

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it's very interesting to interact with

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people who have a different background

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who maybe haven't spoken in other

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podcasts and at the same time have

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something very interesting to say and my

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curiosity in regards to you and what you

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do is how did you get into Bitcoin and

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why what was maybe what what drove you

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to it

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was there like an ideological

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predisposition or some kind of personal

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values that made you think that this is

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what you're looking for or was it just

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pure curiosity which took you down the

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rabbit hole and made you appropriate

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certain certain ideological components

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[Music]

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it's a very interesting journey that I

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had so there are lots of parts to it so

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what happened is I stumbled upon Bitcoin

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on October 2017 kind of like in the

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accident way so if you didn't but that

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was the time when the market was going

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into his 2017 cycle and Bitcoin was all

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over the news and I happen to have some

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extra monies in my hand so I thought

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like okay why not just put it and see

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what happens and then I went up and I I

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thought the first thing that I did was

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some kind of crypto index fund so I have

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spoiled my way through all the shit

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wineries so the first thing that I

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noticed was this that the thing that

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worked out was this address okay this we

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will do random long address and that's

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me I haven't seen these things before so

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what is this thing and so that's when I

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started to go deeper but the store

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goes a little bad because when I was

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doing my master's in structural

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engineering

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I was quite quite fed up with the way

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academics work I was like fed up with

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the culture of academia and I was

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totally frustrated that there is so much

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lack of curiosity happening in this

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academic field that I just wanted to

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leave it but instead of leaving it what

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I did is like okay if I am NOT being

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able to study what I want to study so

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why not study on my own so at that point

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on 2016 I started studying the most

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difficult subject that I could find that

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was theoretical physics so I started

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selling steel theoretical physics and I

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did that for two years and that was a

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fascinating journey and then I stumbled

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upon Bitcoin so by that time I stumbled

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upon bill and I already had this this

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this curiosity drives to understand

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complex thing and when I solve this

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thing called click to orbit when I

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didn't understood what's the difference

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between them back then and it seemed

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that it's pretty complex thing and I

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thought ok I am done with physics let's

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not let's just drive into another field

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and see what happens and when I started

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diving deep into it something very

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fascinating occurred to me and which

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goes back into another period of my time

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when I was in my bachelor's so here I

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think it's a very interesting school

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when I was in my bachelor's I was in a

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university which was very much

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politically active in the sense that we

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were organized rallies we organized all

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the sorts of meetings we organized all

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the sorts of political discussions

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debates and cultures that were very

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predominant in this sphere of academia

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and the coolest thing is I am placed in

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the Western Province of India called us

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to enroll and this place this particular

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geography has been dominated by

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communist ideologies for like the last

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40 years and we had a communist regime

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for 37 years before it broke down so

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these ideas of what when I started

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joining into these discussions and

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debates these ideas of common

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thinking and communist romanticism was

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very much ingrained into me in a social

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and cultural way and later I figured out

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after coming out of my small zone and

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looking at the world that the idea of

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communist communism is kind of like

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treated in international global space as

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almost as a form of terrorism or almost

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as a phone call like a very humorous

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thing that people don't want to talk

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about but it was not a situation when I

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was in my area it's still not the

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situation in most part of the vehicle

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because the ideas and romanticism of

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communism was keeping much ingrained in

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the literature is in the which meets and

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in your songs and calling the stories so

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there are a lot of people so people who

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are communists and who think communism

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still can work but I don't believe it

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anyway but at some point I was also

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subscribing to myself as a feminist and

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by the end I passed out from my college

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and when I was happy having done through

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all these discussions and all these

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debates of why communism failed and the

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interesting part is make communists

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started with a movement if you look it

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up it's called the Naxalite movement of

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questioning over a Western Province of

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India mostly happened in paint all

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regions and they went as a student

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movement it was my University and many

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other universities surrounding my

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sittings when this movement actually

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started its epicenter they were like

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brilliant students who like dropped out

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of college and picked up girls to disco

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in the state or whatever it is and did

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that create a huge amount of force and

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ultimately they came into the democratic

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power around 1978 they ruled West Bengal

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and the Communist Party rule do a single

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from 1978 to 2011 TV for the completely

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collapse collapse to utter corruptions

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and bureaucracies and so it was a

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fascinating thing for me to see how a

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certain how a certain very ideologically

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motivated brilliant people take up arms

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we were when they could have been

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engineers doctors lawyers or whatever

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but they too

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to take up arms and on most of them died

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for ideology that didn't seem to work

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and that kind of worked me a lot that

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why did this why did this thing didn't

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work and I wanted to understand it and I

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didn't started understanding it until I

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stepped in Bitcoin and the moment I step

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in Bitcoin within the first two day I

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was kind of like swept away with the

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event when I saw on the problem

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statement that they are trying to solve

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I didn't knew any with any clue how

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they're solving it I didn't knew how

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Bitcoin works

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I didn't know how any of this shit works

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but I saw the problem statement and that

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problem statement hit me in my mind in a

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very blunt way like this is the problem

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statement I have been asking for all

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these years this is the problem that is

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related to why communism fall why a

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central planning doesn't work and how

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can you have analytics systems without a

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central planning so so so the other the

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width of the problem immediately blew my

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mind and I was kind of like whoa this is

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big I need to understand how this thing

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works and that was the first step I took

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at the entrance of the rabbit hole and

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since it's been two years and I'm still

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not out of it and I am the still going

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further and further and further and I

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think that was the drive that put me

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into this quest of understanding Bitcoin

0:10:58.050,0:11:03.089
because I because I immediately made

0:11:01.170,0:11:06.360
that link because this is somehow

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related to my very old question why

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central planning of community structures

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cannot work and if that cannot work what

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else you can do without having a

0:11:14.089,0:11:19.260
self-imposed structure of state or

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quality or any kind of hierarchy into

0:11:19.260,0:11:23.579
the society can this will the society

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fall into chaos before Bitcoin I thought

0:11:23.579,0:11:27.990
it would the answer was yes to me if you

0:11:26.220,0:11:30.560
don't have a structure if you don't have

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a hierarchy you cannot have order and

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once I saw Bitcoin once I saw the rising

0:11:33.390,0:11:37.690
tensions problem and I understood the

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problem statement and an idea

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this is the exact same problem that you

0:11:39.430,0:11:43.120
were trying to solve I don't care if you

0:11:41.170,0:11:45.190
solve it or not but the fact that much I

0:11:43.120,0:11:47.440
could solve it his image and the fact

0:11:45.190,0:11:50.260
that you are a fucking computer protocol

0:11:47.440,0:11:53.080
having things to solve it is out of this

0:11:50.260,0:11:56.410
world so that's what got me into Bitcoin

0:11:53.080,0:11:58.780
you know that's very fascinating because

0:11:56.410,0:12:03.040
I'm also coming from a country which

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used to be communist until 1989 and I

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know all about this from my parents and

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the way we were grown and indoctrinated

0:12:08.620,0:12:14.140
with the ideology and how they were they

0:12:11.800,0:12:17.560
still relate to power in a different way

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and they have this kind of respectful

0:12:17.560,0:12:22.530
fear or whoever is more powerful than

0:12:20.080,0:12:26.770
they are and they have a different view

0:12:22.530,0:12:31.240
towards here are keys and power

0:12:26.770,0:12:33.610
structures so I know that whatever we

0:12:31.240,0:12:38.220
call communism in any part of the world

0:12:33.610,0:12:38.220
is actually a form of state capitalism

0:12:39.150,0:12:43.570
what was interesting was also while I

0:12:41.860,0:12:47.590
was having these discussions at the end

0:12:43.570,0:12:49.330
in my student community or most of us

0:12:47.590,0:12:50.560
people even they are left feeling right

0:12:49.330,0:12:52.540
leaning irrespective of the political

0:12:50.560,0:12:55.780
ideologies or irrespective of their

0:12:52.540,0:12:58.990
party or Association most of them seems

0:12:55.780,0:13:02.530
to understand this point that it's not

0:12:58.990,0:13:05.770
them it's not the person who is at the

0:13:02.530,0:13:09.280
top who is at fault who is at fault it's

0:13:05.770,0:13:13.150
a structure who is at fault so this idea

0:13:09.280,0:13:15.570
of anarchy was almost ingrained into in

0:13:13.150,0:13:17.890
a subconscious level in this part of the

0:13:15.570,0:13:20.470
communist regime of the world where

0:13:17.890,0:13:22.270
people inherently understood this came

0:13:20.470,0:13:24.850
of lot of iron in our debates and

0:13:22.270,0:13:28.690
discussion that is we should not be

0:13:24.850,0:13:30.190
fighting against a person or a party we

0:13:28.690,0:13:32.950
should be fighting against a structure

0:13:30.190,0:13:34.600
and people understood this problem that

0:13:32.950,0:13:36.190
it's the problem of the structure is not

0:13:34.600,0:13:38.440
the problem of the party or problem or

0:13:36.190,0:13:42.160
the leadership so you have to solve the

0:13:38.440,0:13:44.500
structure somehow and but there is no

0:13:42.160,0:13:46.750
way that you can have this kind of any

0:13:44.500,0:13:48.480
kind of perceivable or conceivable

0:13:46.750,0:13:50.640
meaningful solution of

0:13:48.480,0:13:52.290
without a structure and that's what

0:13:50.640,0:13:56.280
that's why bitcoin was fascinatingly

0:13:52.290,0:13:58.710
because it's exactly that yeah I guess

0:13:56.280,0:14:01.970
bitcoin if you take it from this

0:13:58.710,0:14:04.470
perspective also creates this kind of

0:14:01.970,0:14:07.560
classes of citizens and I remember

0:14:04.470,0:14:09.510
Satoshi's saying in a comment on Bitcoin

0:14:07.560,0:14:11.940
talk that people who do not validate

0:14:09.510,0:14:15.840
their own transactions and rely on

0:14:11.940,0:14:20.040
somebody else somebody's else's node is

0:14:15.840,0:14:24.300
a second-class citizen but this is more

0:14:20.040,0:14:28.680
of a joke I don't think I don't think

0:14:24.300,0:14:31.530
it's a joke it has a sustainable engine

0:14:28.680,0:14:33.450
the second class citizen part is a joke

0:14:31.530,0:14:35.490
but it makes a lot of sense for you to

0:14:33.450,0:14:38.810
once you validate your own transactions

0:14:35.490,0:14:41.100
yeah it does it does also also also I

0:14:38.810,0:14:45.480
kind of have a different view on this

0:14:41.100,0:14:48.300
it's like this entire ecosystem made out

0:14:45.480,0:14:51.510
of individuals and each of individuals

0:14:48.300,0:14:54.360
are citizens so the classification of

0:14:51.510,0:14:57.780
the citizens are dependent and they are

0:14:54.360,0:15:00.720
based on how much impact a citizen's

0:14:57.780,0:15:03.390
decision is made on the structure of

0:15:00.720,0:15:05.370
this entire system so if you have the

0:15:03.390,0:15:07.410
first-class citizens as those whose

0:15:05.370,0:15:09.450
decisions have the highest amount of

0:15:07.410,0:15:12.030
impact who runs their own node who

0:15:09.450,0:15:14.640
validates their own transaction who

0:15:12.030,0:15:22.250
maintains their own private keys so they

0:15:14.640,0:15:22.250
have the highest amount of info right Oh

0:15:23.580,0:15:25.940
you

0:15:26.949,0:15:34.490
that looks that rush I lost you for

0:15:30.559,0:15:38.269
about ten seconds okay so can you let me

0:15:34.490,0:15:40.519
know yes you are saying that some people

0:15:38.269,0:15:42.110
have the infrastructure to validate

0:15:40.519,0:15:44.480
their own transactions and that's where

0:15:42.110,0:15:46.699
okay yeah so I think these are

0:15:44.480,0:15:49.370
classifications of our citizenship comes

0:15:46.699,0:15:51.319
from this fact that these individuals

0:15:49.370,0:15:54.559
who have this ball this required

0:15:51.319,0:15:56.990
sovereign individuals infrastructure's

0:15:54.559,0:15:58.939
and they'll be home to in order to

0:15:56.990,0:16:01.309
validate their own transactions or have

0:15:58.939,0:16:03.589
their own private keys they have the

0:16:01.309,0:16:06.470
highest amount of influence even if it

0:16:03.589,0:16:08.059
is individual it's very - cool if you

0:16:06.470,0:16:09.920
add up all these people who are doing

0:16:08.059,0:16:12.259
the same then it's become a very

0:16:09.920,0:16:16.309
tangible real thing and I think a part

0:16:12.259,0:16:20.949
of that happened in you know - X debate

0:16:16.309,0:16:25.309
and that battle that happened in 2017 so

0:16:20.949,0:16:28.459
there we saw there is a huge impact of

0:16:25.309,0:16:30.889
individuals running their own node so it

0:16:28.459,0:16:33.620
kind of makes sense to segregate

0:16:30.889,0:16:36.019
citizens seems depending on the impact

0:16:33.620,0:16:38.389
that they are imposing on their

0:16:36.019,0:16:43.730
individual decision making level over

0:16:38.389,0:16:46.160
the whole ecosystem so from your

0:16:43.730,0:16:48.589
perspective do you think that bitcoin is

0:16:46.160,0:16:51.230
much more than an economic system which

0:16:48.589,0:16:56.839
competes with world finance and you see

0:16:51.230,0:17:00.199
a political dimension to it I do I do

0:16:56.839,0:17:04.159
yeah I do III do not have yet formulated

0:17:00.199,0:17:07.850
a coherent view of how might that look

0:17:04.159,0:17:11.209
like but I do have a feeling that

0:17:07.850,0:17:14.390
bitcoin is much more like a lifestyle

0:17:11.209,0:17:16.279
thing then it's just an economical

0:17:14.390,0:17:19.279
system it's economical system at first

0:17:16.279,0:17:21.589
but it's also a lifestyle thing and it

0:17:19.279,0:17:24.169
changes you you have to mold your

0:17:21.589,0:17:26.209
lifestyle you have to mold your way of

0:17:24.169,0:17:28.789
thinking you have to mold your time

0:17:26.209,0:17:31.490
preference in certain ways in order to

0:17:28.789,0:17:33.529
meaningfully participate in this

0:17:31.490,0:17:37.280
ecosystem in this economical system

0:17:33.529,0:17:37.880
events so yeah it it has this kind of

0:17:37.280,0:17:42.980
effect

0:17:37.880,0:17:44.540
and yeah that's what I think yeah that's

0:17:42.980,0:17:46.460
a very interesting perspective and

0:17:44.540,0:17:51.080
you're basically implying that every

0:17:46.460,0:17:53.420
participant must educate himself or

0:17:51.080,0:17:56.000
herself in order yea participate to this

0:17:53.420,0:17:57.260
system but yeah my counter example right

0:17:56.000,0:18:00.500
now and you said that you haven't

0:17:57.260,0:18:02.660
formulated your ideas maybe that's why

0:18:00.500,0:18:05.780
we are having this conversation so we

0:18:02.660,0:18:08.840
get a better understanding to what we're

0:18:05.780,0:18:11.300
thinking but let let's think of the

0:18:08.840,0:18:13.490
average coinbase user who doesn't even

0:18:11.300,0:18:15.710
know what a public key and the private

0:18:13.490,0:18:17.750
key is they just know that they bought

0:18:15.710,0:18:20.330
something which they hold in that wallet

0:18:17.750,0:18:21.800
and they will probably never switch to

0:18:20.330,0:18:24.110
their own wallet

0:18:21.800,0:18:27.380
they just check price whenever they see

0:18:24.110,0:18:29.810
mainstream media news and that's pretty

0:18:27.380,0:18:33.080
much it they don't care much it's like a

0:18:29.810,0:18:35.480
hobby there they don't care enough to

0:18:33.080,0:18:37.460
get involved are we going to say that

0:18:35.480,0:18:39.980
these people are not authentic

0:18:37.460,0:18:42.470
participants or that they don't matter

0:18:39.980,0:18:45.440
because I guess they they are a large

0:18:42.470,0:18:48.230
part of the economy if you list how much

0:18:45.440,0:18:51.380
the community gets involved on forums or

0:18:48.230,0:18:56.210
on Twitter you know that this world is

0:18:51.380,0:18:57.770
quite small yeah it's true yes a few

0:18:56.210,0:19:00.140
thousand people who were just like these

0:18:57.770,0:19:02.420
crazy teen had cypherpunks were like

0:19:00.140,0:19:06.620
running nose and buying hardware wallets

0:19:02.420,0:19:08.870
and I think what's happening here is

0:19:06.620,0:19:10.670
basically all these people the entire

0:19:08.870,0:19:12.620
people who doesn't care about Bitcoin

0:19:10.670,0:19:14.270
who cares about Bitcoin who does their

0:19:12.620,0:19:17.090
nude who doesn't even know all this

0:19:14.270,0:19:19.220
spectrum of the entire people does have

0:19:17.090,0:19:21.590
all of their influence on the whole

0:19:19.220,0:19:23.480
economy even the government's who bans

0:19:21.590,0:19:27.050
Bitcoin does have an influence on

0:19:23.480,0:19:29.240
Bitcoin even though even the banker who

0:19:27.050,0:19:32.300
hates Bitcoin food we will never buy

0:19:29.240,0:19:34.460
that piece of shit also has an effect on

0:19:32.300,0:19:37.430
vehicle so everybody has their effect on

0:19:34.460,0:19:40.100
this ecosystem and these effects are not

0:19:37.430,0:19:42.290
exactly similar for everybody else for

0:19:40.100,0:19:44.360
everybody else so it doesn't mean to say

0:19:42.290,0:19:46.580
that everybody needs to run their note

0:19:44.360,0:19:49.130
or everybody has to go through this all

0:19:46.580,0:19:51.060
these cryptographic opportunities and

0:19:49.130,0:19:52.950
all these complex structures and all

0:19:51.060,0:19:55.020
complex concept to understand and to

0:19:52.950,0:19:57.660
meaningfully participate in because it's

0:19:55.020,0:19:59.910
not that we just need n ask people who

0:19:57.660,0:20:02.850
are doing that because if we have enough

0:19:59.910,0:20:06.330
people who are doing that the remaining

0:20:02.850,0:20:08.100
of the ecosystem can gather around these

0:20:06.330,0:20:10.290
people then gather around this

0:20:08.100,0:20:14.700
infrastructure and do whatever they want

0:20:10.290,0:20:19.130
to do so the ecosystem will evolve in

0:20:14.700,0:20:22.470
this diverse way and there is a very

0:20:19.130,0:20:25.290
similar parallel that exists between

0:20:22.470,0:20:29.160
this particular characteristics of

0:20:25.290,0:20:31.500
Bitcoin and the way gold is used in

0:20:29.160,0:20:33.240
Indian household basically I was just

0:20:31.500,0:20:35.010
looking through your post last night

0:20:33.240,0:20:36.450
when you posted and somebody suggested

0:20:35.010,0:20:41.040
that team should ask this question of

0:20:36.450,0:20:43.890
how Gould and India Gold culture in

0:20:41.040,0:20:45.240
India can help build wine or or it's the

0:20:43.890,0:20:46.860
reverse of it I think there is a very

0:20:45.240,0:20:50.550
interesting pair I was thinking about a

0:20:46.860,0:20:53.340
tendency in India most of the people

0:20:50.550,0:20:56.430
every household notice to upper-class

0:20:53.340,0:20:59.880
from when entire spectrum has a certain

0:20:56.430,0:21:02.940
stash of gold in it okay now they have

0:20:59.880,0:21:06.030
this gold but they don't see that gold

0:21:02.940,0:21:09.450
as an investment vehicle they don't see

0:21:06.030,0:21:11.340
that gold as a store of value ninety

0:21:09.450,0:21:13.470
percent of the people in India doesn't

0:21:11.340,0:21:15.720
care what's the value of gold is yet

0:21:13.470,0:21:17.850
they have it the reason they don't care

0:21:15.720,0:21:19.530
about the value of gold what is the

0:21:17.850,0:21:21.720
price of gold is today because they are

0:21:19.530,0:21:25.200
not willing to sell they don't sell

0:21:21.720,0:21:26.880
their gold so they hold this gold the

0:21:25.200,0:21:29.970
most of the time what happens is this

0:21:26.880,0:21:31.770
gold but changes hand through

0:21:29.970,0:21:33.840
generations after generations of

0:21:31.770,0:21:38.250
generations without even being

0:21:33.840,0:21:39.930
liquidated and the only time I Indian

0:21:38.250,0:21:42.420
household middle class lower middle

0:21:39.930,0:21:44.370
class upper class anyway any Indian

0:21:42.420,0:21:47.160
household touches their gold stack and

0:21:44.370,0:21:49.320
liquidate it in the problem of crime in

0:21:47.160,0:21:51.570
the time of crisis and that is also at

0:21:49.320,0:21:53.370
the very last resort when they have

0:21:51.570,0:21:55.530
nothing else in saving when they have

0:21:53.370,0:21:57.720
nowhere else to get the last one of

0:21:55.530,0:21:59.760
liquidity to extract they will touch

0:21:57.720,0:22:02.279
their gold and sell it so what's

0:21:59.760,0:22:05.369
happening here the people in

0:22:02.279,0:22:08.369
the the common household people who have

0:22:05.369,0:22:11.399
their gold they they don't understand

0:22:08.369,0:22:14.460
who I it's gold if you go and ask them

0:22:11.399,0:22:16.649
why do you behave for this yellow dog

0:22:14.460,0:22:18.509
why do you think this yellow dog has did

0:22:16.649,0:22:21.809
will not be able to give him a proper

0:22:18.509,0:22:24.989
answer because they are not acting on a

0:22:21.809,0:22:27.539
conscious level it's it's ingrained in

0:22:24.989,0:22:30.059
their subconscious in such a way through

0:22:27.539,0:22:33.389
cultural and social norms of thousands

0:22:30.059,0:22:36.089
of years that did they immediately feel

0:22:33.389,0:22:39.479
that it's a good idea to get a piece of

0:22:36.089,0:22:42.509
gold without having to think about how

0:22:39.479,0:22:44.669
gold is changing how gold is the hardest

0:22:42.509,0:22:46.830
money or hard money or how they are

0:22:44.669,0:22:49.139
going to go against the central bank you

0:22:46.830,0:22:52.529
are any kind of Austrian or libertarian

0:22:49.139,0:22:55.589
philosophy they have no clue and they do

0:22:52.529,0:22:58.109
not even understand why gold has the

0:22:55.589,0:23:01.469
properties it has so that it can retain

0:22:58.109,0:23:03.809
its value throughout but that doesn't

0:23:01.469,0:23:06.960
matter that doesn't matter to have them

0:23:03.809,0:23:10.440
that step of gold so I think the

0:23:06.960,0:23:13.889
cultures develop in this way so you have

0:23:10.440,0:23:17.789
certainly you have a certain group of

0:23:13.889,0:23:21.539
small chunks who see things differently

0:23:17.789,0:23:23.190
who invest in gold for whatever purpose

0:23:21.539,0:23:25.529
so there are gold bugs and all the other

0:23:23.190,0:23:27.839
goon works in India so they invest in

0:23:25.529,0:23:29.820
gold they put money into their gold as a

0:23:27.839,0:23:32.129
return of investment or as a self

0:23:29.820,0:23:35.759
sovereign store of value or whatever but

0:23:32.129,0:23:38.759
that doesn't stop stop other people to

0:23:35.759,0:23:41.039
have gold as a store of value without

0:23:38.759,0:23:43.289
even knowing why they are using it as a

0:23:41.039,0:23:45.479
store of hell or why it is a good store

0:23:43.289,0:23:50.339
of value that other other metal crafts

0:23:45.479,0:23:52.469
so this happens over generations and

0:23:50.339,0:23:56.759
generations and it takes a longer time

0:23:52.469,0:24:00.089
to get engraved into the social psyche

0:23:56.759,0:24:03.359
of the people to behave around certain

0:24:00.089,0:24:07.409
asset classes in this way and Bitcoin

0:24:03.359,0:24:11.070
has exact same properties as gold so I

0:24:07.409,0:24:14.950
don't see any reason why this kind of

0:24:11.070,0:24:17.080
behaviors cannot happen around Bitcoin

0:24:14.950,0:24:19.629
because it has the same properties that

0:24:17.080,0:24:22.149
you need to simulate this phenomena so

0:24:19.629,0:24:23.139
even though people don't run their full

0:24:22.149,0:24:25.299
load even though they are not

0:24:23.139,0:24:28.299
libertarian even though they don't hear

0:24:25.299,0:24:31.869
about central banking monetary policies

0:24:28.299,0:24:34.869
inflation on the social psyche can be

0:24:31.869,0:24:37.239
built around Bitcoin in such a way that

0:24:34.869,0:24:39.820
people have immediately know in their

0:24:37.239,0:24:42.460
gut that it's a good idea to have some

0:24:39.820,0:24:45.159
sets without being able to explain why

0:24:42.460,0:24:46.450
that might be the case I guess in two

0:24:45.159,0:24:48.539
hundred years

0:24:46.450,0:24:52.509
we're going to have something similar

0:24:48.539,0:24:55.419
especially maybe even closer than that

0:24:52.509,0:24:58.629
maybe before two thousand one hundred

0:24:55.419,0:25:02.499
and forty when we're going to have the

0:24:58.629,0:25:03.940
last few bitcoins being mine I'm not

0:25:02.499,0:25:06.879
sure what's going to happen to the

0:25:03.940,0:25:08.980
network at that point if the community

0:25:06.879,0:25:11.619
will decide to hard fork and maybe

0:25:08.980,0:25:14.830
create a greater inflation or they will

0:25:11.619,0:25:17.220
just have a moment and say this is it

0:25:14.830,0:25:20.830
we're going to use this supply

0:25:17.220,0:25:23.169
rationally and make sense out of it see

0:25:20.830,0:25:26.559
how we can distribute the coins in a way

0:25:23.169,0:25:29.470
that helps the prosperity of whatever

0:25:26.559,0:25:32.679
they're going to have like world state

0:25:29.470,0:25:36.970
or nation states or I have no idea

0:25:32.679,0:25:40.600
what's what the future has it's very

0:25:36.970,0:25:43.899
difficult to try to predict futures even

0:25:40.600,0:25:45.879
beyond three to four years because we

0:25:43.899,0:25:48.669
burn nothing nicolas de la describe this

0:25:45.879,0:25:51.100
very elusively and very rightly because

0:25:48.669,0:25:53.200
the our intern world is basically random

0:25:51.100,0:25:55.809
so there are lots of randomness that we

0:25:53.200,0:25:58.480
cannot even comprehend so if we know

0:25:55.809,0:26:00.549
what would happen in future we would

0:25:58.480,0:26:02.799
already have that in present because we

0:26:00.549,0:26:05.830
know how to do that in future that means

0:26:02.799,0:26:07.299
we know how to solve that problem so if

0:26:05.830,0:26:08.889
we know how to solve that problem in

0:26:07.299,0:26:11.710
future that means we know how to solve

0:26:08.889,0:26:13.869
that problem now so the fact that we

0:26:11.710,0:26:17.019
don't happen to have the future doesn't

0:26:13.869,0:26:20.109
save on its own that we don't we cannot

0:26:17.019,0:26:22.359
predict the future this looking at our

0:26:20.109,0:26:24.480
present so that's a very deeper

0:26:22.359,0:26:26.230
philosophical meaning about our

0:26:24.480,0:26:28.870
exploration on reality

0:26:26.230,0:26:30.730
but I want to touch another product that

0:26:28.870,0:26:36.570
there is a difference between Bitcoin

0:26:30.730,0:26:39.880
and gold and that is a tangible 'ti this

0:26:36.570,0:26:42.820
what it seems around me is in this

0:26:39.880,0:26:46.240
Indian society when when when a

0:26:42.820,0:26:48.340
housewife gets a small step of gold or

0:26:46.240,0:26:50.710
informal jewelry's or in form of

0:26:48.340,0:26:53.800
buildings in form of a necklace or in

0:26:50.710,0:26:57.760
form of any other form they they always

0:26:53.800,0:27:01.150
tend to have the form in such a way that

0:26:57.760,0:27:05.140
they can show off it to the society and

0:27:01.150,0:27:10.120
this showing off is a very crucial part

0:27:05.140,0:27:13.300
of having that acid because you want to

0:27:10.120,0:27:14.950
have a kind of thing that you can show

0:27:13.300,0:27:17.110
to people you can point to people you

0:27:14.950,0:27:19.600
can hold in your hand and you can wear

0:27:17.110,0:27:23.290
it in your body and display to the

0:27:19.600,0:27:29.320
society that you have this asset it

0:27:23.290,0:27:34.200
kinds of bring a human bias into full

0:27:29.320,0:27:34.200
front that a human humans are prone to

0:27:34.260,0:27:42.190
display their their status their social

0:27:38.470,0:27:45.190
positions their their way of life their

0:27:42.190,0:27:47.440
way of thinking in society and in the

0:27:45.190,0:27:49.630
surrounding society near them and that

0:27:47.440,0:27:53.260
is a very crucial part of being

0:27:49.630,0:27:56.680
socialized and so that is the problem

0:27:53.260,0:27:59.140
that Bitcoin and have that gold doesn't

0:27:56.680,0:28:01.630
that you cannot just point to a thing

0:27:59.140,0:28:04.480
and you say like look this is my Bitcoin

0:28:01.630,0:28:05.320
or look I have made a necklace out of

0:28:04.480,0:28:07.630
Bitcoin

0:28:05.320,0:28:11.320
even though that is not my entire big

0:28:07.630,0:28:14.370
contact but I am showing off my Bitcoin

0:28:11.320,0:28:16.810
state to the society as a form of

0:28:14.370,0:28:17.980
displaying my social position you cannot

0:28:16.810,0:28:27.940
do that with bitcoins

0:28:17.980,0:28:29.530
you can wear a QR code you can imagine

0:28:27.940,0:28:33.430
that they're going to have some kind of

0:28:29.530,0:28:36.040
wearable item which scans the codes like

0:28:33.430,0:28:38.740
the Google glass you know that thing

0:28:36.040,0:28:39.630
yeah yeah it's something which enables

0:28:38.740,0:28:41.970
augmented

0:28:39.630,0:28:43.740
reality so people in the future are

0:28:41.970,0:28:47.130
going to be wearing that they can

0:28:43.740,0:28:50.360
actually see how much Bitcoin each other

0:28:47.130,0:28:57.090
actually has if they want to show off

0:28:50.360,0:29:00.110
yeah the culture bitcoiners is to not

0:28:57.090,0:29:04.140
reveal how much there is stone for yes

0:29:00.110,0:29:06.270
for personal security reasons yes you

0:29:04.140,0:29:09.900
don't want to get dogs do the ones who

0:29:06.270,0:29:12.000
get swatted if you own a lot of Bitcoin

0:29:09.900,0:29:14.310
it's a lot better for you to beep

0:29:12.000,0:29:17.820
pseudonymous on the internet and try not

0:29:14.310,0:29:20.190
to reveal any personal detail about what

0:29:17.820,0:29:24.930
you do where you live and stuff like

0:29:20.190,0:29:27.810
that yeah cool this is the thing about

0:29:24.930,0:29:30.720
it incentivizes people to think about

0:29:27.810,0:29:33.660
your privacy it incentivizes you to take

0:29:30.720,0:29:35.280
responsibility of your privacy and that

0:29:33.660,0:29:36.900
is the lifestyle teaching that Bitcoin

0:29:35.280,0:29:38.880
teaches in when you try to hold your

0:29:36.900,0:29:43.010
private key so very difficult to chop

0:29:38.880,0:29:46.200
you hold your private key so so I think

0:29:43.010,0:29:48.990
Bitcoin in discount I am not really sure

0:29:46.200,0:29:52.230
but it feels to me that Bitcoin will not

0:29:48.990,0:29:54.870
be properly completely eradicate to

0:29:52.230,0:29:58.560
existence of gold because gold doesn't

0:29:54.870,0:30:00.480
have this kind of incentives so of

0:29:58.560,0:30:03.060
course so does it it's another form of

0:30:00.480,0:30:06.810
property you have see what it does

0:30:03.060,0:30:08.730
another form of property but but the

0:30:06.810,0:30:12.150
thing is like if you wear a gold

0:30:08.730,0:30:14.970
necklace it just looks good and there is

0:30:12.150,0:30:17.460
a social norm that established in the

0:30:14.970,0:30:20.460
society that everybody agrees that it's

0:30:17.460,0:30:22.590
no good on you like that's the mental

0:30:20.460,0:30:25.500
psychology that happens in every Indian

0:30:22.590,0:30:28.410
woman so they assassinated about gold

0:30:25.500,0:30:32.250
jewelry because it's shiny it looks good

0:30:28.410,0:30:34.770
and they're fascinated about it's not it

0:30:32.250,0:30:37.680
cannot be just any yellow metal you can

0:30:34.770,0:30:40.140
hear if you have a yellow metal that is

0:30:37.680,0:30:41.700
painted yellow metal rolling and you

0:30:40.140,0:30:45.150
have a gold medal there is very

0:30:41.700,0:30:47.850
different very very it's very difficult

0:30:45.150,0:30:49.220
to just watch and see and Martell's from

0:30:47.850,0:30:52.940
your eyes like which one

0:30:49.220,0:30:54.980
real one but it doesn't it almost mean

0:30:52.940,0:30:57.799
it doesn't matter to them they want the

0:30:54.980,0:31:00.530
real thing because they want to tell

0:30:57.799,0:31:06.970
people that this is the goal to that I

0:31:00.530,0:31:11.090
have and that showing that doesn't also

0:31:06.970,0:31:13.039
tells everybody else already that they

0:31:11.090,0:31:17.450
have a huge gold stash somewhere hidden

0:31:13.039,0:31:20.450
so that's the thing that is happening

0:31:17.450,0:31:23.059
with gold but you cannot happen to have

0:31:20.450,0:31:25.220
that in Bitcoin because if you tell if

0:31:23.059,0:31:27.470
you try to show off your Bitcoin holding

0:31:25.220,0:31:29.570
the very next thing that it will have

0:31:27.470,0:31:32.510
that you will get dogs and you will get

0:31:29.570,0:31:35.270
all sorts of attacks on you on personal

0:31:32.510,0:31:38.570
things so you have to be secretive about

0:31:35.270,0:31:40.730
in your bitcoins but you it seems to me

0:31:38.570,0:31:42.799
that it's not necessary for gold because

0:31:40.730,0:31:45.289
people can comfortably display their

0:31:42.799,0:31:48.650
gold to the society yet they can be

0:31:45.289,0:31:53.090
relatively secure about their entire

0:31:48.650,0:31:55.730
gold stack hidden somewhere yeah that's

0:31:53.090,0:31:59.450
just because everybody supposedly has

0:31:55.730,0:32:01.700
their own stack of gold so it's more

0:31:59.450,0:32:05.919
unlikely for you to actually want to

0:32:01.700,0:32:09.169
steal somebody else's there is also this

0:32:05.919,0:32:11.570
social structure which allows people to

0:32:09.169,0:32:14.210
know how much gold the other person owns

0:32:11.570,0:32:17.330
so if you steal from them it's going to

0:32:14.210,0:32:20.750
be very obvious you're going to get a

0:32:17.330,0:32:23.630
card so your incentives to actually try

0:32:20.750,0:32:26.630
to rob somebody after gold in India I

0:32:23.630,0:32:28.909
guess are just lower just because you're

0:32:26.630,0:32:32.419
everybody has it caught are high and

0:32:28.909,0:32:36.980
everybody has it so your neighbor knows

0:32:32.419,0:32:39.350
how much gold you have and if you happen

0:32:36.980,0:32:42.710
to show off with the gold that you stole

0:32:39.350,0:32:44.480
from somebody else then I guess it's

0:32:42.710,0:32:47.000
going to be well known as people can

0:32:44.480,0:32:50.630
recognize but at the same time gold is

0:32:47.000,0:32:53.270
one of these metals which aren't wasted

0:32:50.630,0:32:56.870
so you can melt gold and put it in

0:32:53.270,0:33:01.669
different shapes yes you create various

0:32:56.870,0:33:02.190
objects or jewelry with it yes yeah yeah

0:33:01.669,0:33:03.509
yeah

0:33:02.190,0:33:06.299
most of the time it happened what

0:33:03.509,0:33:08.519
happens instead this gold staff of every

0:33:06.299,0:33:10.950
Indian household they never get

0:33:08.519,0:33:12.840
liquidated what happens is they get

0:33:10.950,0:33:15.149
transferred through generations and

0:33:12.840,0:33:17.580
generations and generations without ever

0:33:15.149,0:33:20.009
getting liquidated in the process they

0:33:17.580,0:33:22.470
get moving from one jewelry to another

0:33:20.009,0:33:24.330
jewelry or from multiple jewelry's to

0:33:22.470,0:33:27.629
one big jewelry store all sorts of

0:33:24.330,0:33:28.860
different kinds of but they almost never

0:33:27.629,0:33:30.870
get liquidated

0:33:28.860,0:33:33.720
there are households which have this

0:33:30.870,0:33:35.700
gold stack or some particular items of

0:33:33.720,0:33:38.460
gold that has been in their family for

0:33:35.700,0:33:40.350
generations of generations and they

0:33:38.460,0:33:44.279
never think about liquidating it and

0:33:40.350,0:33:47.940
this particular aspect is also also true

0:33:44.279,0:33:50.039
in case of bitcoins there are people in

0:33:47.940,0:33:52.649
Bitcoin space I believe who have this

0:33:50.039,0:33:54.960
mentality of never liquidating their

0:33:52.649,0:33:57.179
Bitcoin because because they can

0:33:54.960,0:33:58.950
simulate that exact same thing that

0:33:57.179,0:34:01.440
Indians are doing with their port of

0:33:58.950,0:34:04.529
passing wealth to generation without

0:34:01.440,0:34:07.320
ever needing to convert it into other

0:34:04.529,0:34:10.710
form of money or without even being a

0:34:07.320,0:34:14.220
needing to calculate its ROI equal say

0:34:10.710,0:34:16.349
and that works and there is no reason

0:34:14.220,0:34:18.720
why it cannot work for Bitcoin it can

0:34:16.349,0:34:21.750
similarly work for Bitcoin and I think

0:34:18.720,0:34:23.879
we will over our generation and over the

0:34:21.750,0:34:26.639
next generation we will see it's kind of

0:34:23.879,0:34:28.889
things happening when the Bitcoin

0:34:26.639,0:34:31.770
doesn't even touches the blocks in any

0:34:28.889,0:34:33.869
way it's me you just transmit the piped

0:34:31.770,0:34:37.950
keys from generation to generation to

0:34:33.869,0:34:40.560
generation and that's how and it can it

0:34:37.950,0:34:42.899
can retain its well very effectively

0:34:40.560,0:34:44.940
through time so you can really easily do

0:34:42.899,0:34:47.490
that and I think people will do that at

0:34:44.940,0:34:50.579
certain point of them in the culture

0:34:47.490,0:34:53.310
from which I come in Romania there used

0:34:50.579,0:34:57.180
to be this tradition for women to get

0:34:53.310,0:34:59.700
gold after the marriage and it was

0:34:57.180,0:35:02.609
gifted by the man whom they were

0:34:59.700,0:35:04.859
marrying as a guarantee that if they get

0:35:02.609,0:35:07.280
left alone they're going to be able to

0:35:04.859,0:35:10.910
break even and become independent

0:35:07.280,0:35:14.520
financially this was before we had

0:35:10.910,0:35:15.260
divorces which allow you to take 50% of

0:35:14.520,0:35:18.350
what you

0:35:15.260,0:35:21.410
among Lyon and before we had this sort

0:35:18.350,0:35:24.620
of legal and civil Riemann's it was just

0:35:21.410,0:35:26.630
a social norm to ensure that the woman

0:35:24.620,0:35:30.140
the woman if she happens to be left

0:35:26.630,0:35:33.130
alone and abandoned she will they be

0:35:30.140,0:35:35.990
able to handle herself financially and

0:35:33.130,0:35:38.120
the gold was a guarantee that was

0:35:35.990,0:35:43.190
offered to her for a good life no matter

0:35:38.120,0:35:46.930
what same thing happens here yeah it

0:35:43.190,0:35:50.570
makes sense a social and political

0:35:46.930,0:35:52.940
structure where you you actually don't

0:35:50.570,0:35:57.050
want to waste your life and you don't

0:35:52.940,0:35:59.750
want to I don't know how I should call

0:35:57.050,0:36:08.530
the term you don't want to be left alone

0:35:59.750,0:36:11.180
you don't want to really accept

0:36:08.530,0:36:13.280
insecurities that you just transfer it

0:36:11.180,0:36:15.980
to somebody just handing it over that's

0:36:13.280,0:36:18.320
all you need to do and that's called and

0:36:15.980,0:36:21.830
it's so socially accepted and it's easy

0:36:18.320,0:36:23.870
to do and which has and through it has

0:36:21.830,0:36:24.680
retained its values time very

0:36:23.870,0:36:26.540
effectively

0:36:24.680,0:36:28.670
it has ingrained in that social side

0:36:26.540,0:36:31.700
that this is a very good thing to do

0:36:28.670,0:36:34.100
this is a good idea to have some code so

0:36:31.700,0:36:37.280
that's how these kind of norms emerges

0:36:34.100,0:36:40.280
out of it the point where I was trying

0:36:37.280,0:36:43.040
to get from this is that what we were

0:36:40.280,0:36:45.140
having is a very primitive form of what

0:36:43.040,0:36:48.950
we have right now and is called

0:36:45.140,0:36:52.090
multi-sig so it was a mutual agreement

0:36:48.950,0:36:56.660
between multiple parties in which

0:36:52.090,0:37:01.220
everybody owned like a part of a private

0:36:56.660,0:37:05.060
key right and if they wanted to get out

0:37:01.220,0:37:08.530
they had their way of actually being

0:37:05.060,0:37:11.570
financially well-off if they wanted to

0:37:08.530,0:37:15.230
mm-hmm right now if you wanted to

0:37:11.570,0:37:18.020
replicate it you'd have a three-part

0:37:15.230,0:37:20.320
private key and each spouse would have

0:37:18.020,0:37:23.390
one and the other one would be may be

0:37:20.320,0:37:26.170
stored in a bank so if one of them

0:37:23.390,0:37:29.000
wanted to divorce and they agreed that

0:37:26.170,0:37:32.570
it's okay for them to

0:37:29.000,0:37:36.800
separate then they would get access to

0:37:32.570,0:37:40.730
that third part and the spouse who is

0:37:36.800,0:37:43.310
maybe in the worst financial situation

0:37:40.730,0:37:47.030
would be able to get access to that

0:37:43.310,0:37:51.050
Bitcoin true you know that kind of thing

0:37:47.030,0:37:54.230
can be much it's much easier to do this

0:37:51.050,0:37:56.810
kind of constructs with Bitcoin than it

0:37:54.230,0:37:59.930
then then on gold you cannot do this

0:37:56.810,0:38:01.490
kind of crazy multi-sig things on gold

0:37:59.930,0:38:02.180
but you can really easily do that on

0:38:01.490,0:38:05.840
that one

0:38:02.180,0:38:09.349
we will see a lot of I think we will see

0:38:05.840,0:38:12.859
a lot of this kind of primitive social

0:38:09.349,0:38:15.740
contracts that can leverage the power of

0:38:12.859,0:38:18.050
Bitcoin smart contracting tools to have

0:38:15.740,0:38:20.780
this kind of ways for people to

0:38:18.050,0:38:25.869
negotiate different kind of social norms

0:38:20.780,0:38:30.710
and different kind of mitigation of

0:38:25.869,0:38:32.330
social situation and yeah we'll just add

0:38:30.710,0:38:35.240
the tip of the iceberg

0:38:32.330,0:38:37.700
we just don't know how far this thing

0:38:35.240,0:38:40.339
can go we just know that this is made

0:38:37.700,0:38:44.060
this is huge this has huge implications

0:38:40.339,0:38:46.250
on our society and we just have to wait

0:38:44.060,0:38:48.560
and see and this is the fun part of

0:38:46.250,0:38:51.410
Bitcoin I was studying bit welding you

0:38:48.560,0:38:53.530
don't have to you don't have to bend

0:38:51.410,0:38:55.849
your head a lot to figure out a problem

0:38:53.530,0:38:57.619
figure the solution of the problem the

0:38:55.849,0:39:00.920
problem has been solved all you need to

0:38:57.619,0:39:04.130
do now is sit back and observe and the

0:39:00.920,0:39:06.619
thing will unfold in our eyes in real

0:39:04.130,0:39:09.369
time and that will be a sight to behold

0:39:06.619,0:39:12.020
we just don't know what's gonna happen

0:39:09.369,0:39:15.200
well we know what's going to happen with

0:39:12.020,0:39:19.250
the currency itself as it has a fixed

0:39:15.200,0:39:20.960
monetary policy and that's predictable

0:39:19.250,0:39:24.349
and that's part of the reason why we

0:39:20.960,0:39:26.810
agree that Bitcoin has value then why I

0:39:24.349,0:39:29.420
got into Bitcoin has more to do with the

0:39:26.810,0:39:32.900
inflation and the monetary debasement

0:39:29.420,0:39:36.410
happening in my country where you have a

0:39:32.900,0:39:41.000
monthly inflation rate of about 4% so

0:39:36.410,0:39:42.200
let's say that if I make about $1,000 a

0:39:41.000,0:39:44.600
month

0:39:42.200,0:39:47.350
then from one month to the other I'm

0:39:44.600,0:39:49.520
going to lose $40 of purchasing power

0:39:47.350,0:39:52.730
yeah that's terrible

0:39:49.520,0:39:56.210
and not only that is terrible but the

0:39:52.730,0:40:00.260
prices that you have for the phone bill

0:39:56.210,0:40:03.590
for your rent and for a lot of services

0:40:00.260,0:40:05.840
that you pay are actually calculated at

0:40:03.590,0:40:08.810
in the Euro which is the European

0:40:05.840,0:40:14.210
currency of reference and it's a lot

0:40:08.810,0:40:15.680
more stable than the Romanian low so it

0:40:14.210,0:40:18.350
makes a lot of sense to look for

0:40:15.680,0:40:20.180
something which helps you retain the

0:40:18.350,0:40:22.460
value of your money if you want to shave

0:40:20.180,0:40:25.970
otherwise you're going to end up in this

0:40:22.460,0:40:28.340
rat race where you're incentivized to

0:40:25.970,0:40:32.720
spend your cash as fast as you can and

0:40:28.340,0:40:34.880
dump it to the other person and you're

0:40:32.720,0:40:37.430
not going to save anything it's all

0:40:34.880,0:40:41.480
about consuming and buying and buying

0:40:37.430,0:40:44.540
and buying and that's how that starts

0:40:41.480,0:40:47.090
the vicious consumer death cycle that

0:40:44.540,0:40:51.830
happens in hyper inflating countries and

0:40:47.090,0:40:55.070
also it 4% inflation monthly is very

0:40:51.830,0:40:59.750
very high and that is not a lot of life

0:40:55.070,0:41:03.950
so our world needed this kind of ways to

0:40:59.750,0:41:06.950
retain their values and cold was doing a

0:41:03.950,0:41:09.200
very bad job at it because of its nature

0:41:06.950,0:41:11.960
because it's baby because it's a

0:41:09.200,0:41:14.780
physical metal so it it means to be

0:41:11.960,0:41:17.420
inherently centralized in a vault so

0:41:14.780,0:41:21.890
that was the big fault of gold so gold

0:41:17.420,0:41:25.400
failed us to provide the store of value

0:41:21.890,0:41:28.970
we needed and Bitcoin King in a very

0:41:25.400,0:41:32.540
crucial time of our human history we we

0:41:28.970,0:41:36.290
were just going to get do it into this

0:41:32.540,0:41:38.570
ever inflationary cycle of central bank

0:41:36.290,0:41:40.550
spending money and it's not that they

0:41:38.570,0:41:42.800
are bad people they can't do anything

0:41:40.550,0:41:44.570
about it if they can't just stop it the

0:41:42.800,0:41:48.050
moment they try to stop it at the entire

0:41:44.570,0:41:49.970
economy will collapse so they are kind

0:41:48.050,0:41:51.830
of in a path of self destruct

0:41:49.970,0:41:53.570
they will self destruct themselves

0:41:51.830,0:41:55.080
moving next hundred years maybe even

0:41:53.570,0:41:58.080
sooner nobody

0:41:55.080,0:42:00.870
but yeah for the first time we have this

0:41:58.080,0:42:03.780
relief valve system where the society

0:42:00.870,0:42:06.420
can finally say like screw you screw

0:42:03.780,0:42:09.390
your monetary policies I am NOT gonna

0:42:06.420,0:42:11.430
I'm not gonna play your game I'm not

0:42:09.390,0:42:13.890
gonna play the stupid game of endless

0:42:11.430,0:42:16.290
consumerism I am going to save my money

0:42:13.890,0:42:18.840
I am going to build my future and I will

0:42:16.290,0:42:21.180
just pass it on even if I can't

0:42:18.840,0:42:23.310
liquidate it even if you don't let me to

0:42:21.180,0:42:25.140
convert it into fiat currencies I don't

0:42:23.310,0:42:27.540
care I'll just find this pass it on to

0:42:25.140,0:42:30.690
my next generation and maybe they don't

0:42:27.540,0:42:34.310
even need to so that kind this is a very

0:42:30.690,0:42:37.020
big statement and this is a very

0:42:34.310,0:42:40.410
impactful statement that a human

0:42:37.020,0:42:43.080
individual can say to himself so this

0:42:40.410,0:42:46.110
thing is or not it's not just about

0:42:43.080,0:42:48.780
oneself it's also about the society at

0:42:46.110,0:42:50.850
large and the government as when you

0:42:48.780,0:42:54.420
refuse to use the currency that your

0:42:50.850,0:42:56.550
government issues you're creating a

0:42:54.420,0:42:59.520
problem which has no precedent and has

0:42:56.550,0:43:01.920
no actual solution they can ban Bitcoin

0:42:59.520,0:43:05.430
they can tell you you'll not be able to

0:43:01.920,0:43:07.890
convert legally your Bitcoin into our

0:43:05.430,0:43:09.870
national currency but they will not be

0:43:07.890,0:43:12.030
able to confiscate you they'll

0:43:09.870,0:43:16.350
confiscate your Bitcoin they will not be

0:43:12.030,0:43:18.450
able to censor your transactions unless

0:43:16.350,0:43:20.970
you don't the internet but even for that

0:43:18.450,0:43:25.590
they figured out solutions with the

0:43:20.970,0:43:27.900
satellite and mash antennas with we then

0:43:25.590,0:43:29.880
radio signals which is brilliant

0:43:27.900,0:43:34.380
thank you Nexus oh and you'll a news

0:43:29.880,0:43:35.910
that's that's fascinating I was just

0:43:34.380,0:43:38.610
reading through the speaker that

0:43:35.910,0:43:41.640
recently launched on Lightning Network

0:43:38.610,0:43:44.310
over mesh connections so they are

0:43:41.640,0:43:47.850
incentivizing this mesh node to forward

0:43:44.310,0:43:50.400
messages for a very small amount of that

0:43:47.850,0:43:54.120
very small amount of light in cables so

0:43:50.400,0:43:56.280
that was fascinating and yeah we are

0:43:54.120,0:43:57.509
going into zones where people are

0:43:56.280,0:43:59.969
gathering more and

0:43:57.509,0:44:02.639
more sources so that they can say things

0:43:59.969,0:44:06.899
to the government likes who you I am not

0:44:02.639,0:44:09.419
guilty anymore I quit I exit so Bitcoin

0:44:06.899,0:44:11.639
was the first example that have that

0:44:09.419,0:44:14.389
that that was placed inside a burning

0:44:11.639,0:44:17.519
theater as envious like good days and

0:44:14.389,0:44:21.089
once we got out of this exit door there

0:44:17.519,0:44:24.209
is this mu entire world and we are

0:44:21.089,0:44:25.949
slowly slowly starting to navigate

0:44:24.209,0:44:28.949
through that world and we are slowly

0:44:25.949,0:44:31.229
building the houses electric poles the

0:44:28.949,0:44:34.499
other infrastructure so that people can

0:44:31.229,0:44:37.259
successfully live outside that burning

0:44:34.499,0:44:39.509
clitoris so so far we have just gone

0:44:37.259,0:44:42.269
outside the door through that exit door

0:44:39.509,0:44:44.130
and as we are going out through that X

0:44:42.269,0:44:46.559
and two people are building more stuff

0:44:44.130,0:44:50.159
so that we can go further out out and

0:44:46.559,0:44:52.739
I'm just gonna keep on building I agree

0:44:50.159,0:44:55.169
but what is the situation of Bitcoin in

0:44:52.739,0:44:56.339
India it's the second most populous

0:44:55.169,0:44:59.339
country in the world some people

0:44:56.339,0:45:02.659
estimate that within 20 or 30 years

0:44:59.339,0:45:06.989
they're going to have the most citizens

0:45:02.659,0:45:09.089
even more than China and I I suspect

0:45:06.989,0:45:13.049
that there's a lot going on with Bitcoin

0:45:09.089,0:45:15.509
right I'm not necessarily not really

0:45:13.049,0:45:17.999
part of the reason is the Indian

0:45:15.509,0:45:21.179
currency is not feeling that much

0:45:17.999,0:45:23.669
catastrophically right so it's kind of

0:45:21.179,0:45:26.759
stable it still has I think not nearly

0:45:23.669,0:45:29.819
2% inflation rate which is pretty high

0:45:26.759,0:45:31.919
for how many people they are they are

0:45:29.819,0:45:34.380
feeling the heat but they don't seem to

0:45:31.919,0:45:36.119
grasp what exactly is the culprit

0:45:34.380,0:45:38.519
they are blaming all sorts of different

0:45:36.119,0:45:40.559
parties and all the political parties

0:45:38.519,0:45:42.899
are like blaming each other and blaming

0:45:40.559,0:45:45.329
the central parties for we are doing

0:45:42.899,0:45:48.539
this but nobody is actually blasting why

0:45:45.329,0:45:51.599
this is happening and but as the problem

0:45:48.539,0:45:54.299
is not very dire right now they are also

0:45:51.599,0:45:56.219
good looking for a disparate exit to

0:45:54.299,0:46:00.019
even the éxito is there they are not

0:45:56.219,0:46:02.609
looking for it right so most of the

0:46:00.019,0:46:05.249
situation in India with

0:46:02.609,0:46:06.480
and other cryptocurrencies are really

0:46:05.249,0:46:08.670
speculations

0:46:06.480,0:46:11.309
they're just accumulating they're just

0:46:08.670,0:46:14.160
looking at it and seeing these new

0:46:11.309,0:46:16.049
guidelines this weird parabolic tie

0:46:14.160,0:46:17.819
slice and then just become fascinated

0:46:16.049,0:46:21.660
with it and they just want to make a

0:46:17.819,0:46:24.269
buck that's all there are people who are

0:46:21.660,0:46:26.519
realizing to the fact but it's not

0:46:24.269,0:46:29.359
happening any large enough scale so that

0:46:26.519,0:46:32.400
you can have a rolling movie economy of

0:46:29.359,0:46:35.789
of a complete closed-loop economy where

0:46:32.400,0:46:37.739
you can do most of the things with bed :

0:46:35.789,0:46:40.410
it's not happening that way because

0:46:37.739,0:46:44.400
there is not enough need right now the

0:46:40.410,0:46:46.619
currency is kind of skinnies so mostly

0:46:44.400,0:46:49.829
there are a lot of hype regarding the

0:46:46.619,0:46:53.220
blockchain Neal II and all these other

0:46:49.829,0:46:57.299
crypto projects for saying today I saw

0:46:53.220,0:47:00.059
article that RBI is doing some R&D

0:46:57.299,0:47:02.819
research on some blockchain TLT kind of

0:47:00.059,0:47:04.890
things so they are looking into this

0:47:02.819,0:47:09.180
thing from a very different perspective

0:47:04.890,0:47:12.749
so they are kind of like looking the

0:47:09.180,0:47:14.549
entire structure and extracting some

0:47:12.749,0:47:16.680
certain powers out of it like the

0:47:14.549,0:47:18.749
blockchain data structure or nearly

0:47:16.680,0:47:20.789
whatever I have no clue why they decided

0:47:18.749,0:47:21.749
to extract the blockchain teenis it's

0:47:20.789,0:47:26.249
kind of irrelevant

0:47:21.749,0:47:28.559
so then expect in different parts of

0:47:26.249,0:47:32.849
these structures and they are trying to

0:47:28.559,0:47:35.700
build systems which are the old systems

0:47:32.849,0:47:39.450
but basically trying to make it more

0:47:35.700,0:47:42.539
efficient and I don't think that they

0:47:39.450,0:47:45.749
will be able to succeed on this quest

0:47:42.539,0:47:47.940
being a very meaningful or socially

0:47:45.749,0:47:52.619
transforming me because they were

0:47:47.940,0:47:56.309
looking at a solution for up for which a

0:47:52.619,0:47:58.380
problem doesn't exist and this has been

0:47:56.309,0:48:01.739
happening a lot so most of the spaces

0:47:58.380,0:48:03.779
are like that RBI has imposed a banking

0:48:01.739,0:48:06.660
ban on cryptocurrency so this is what we

0:48:03.779,0:48:09.269
are saying so they are saying you as an

0:48:06.660,0:48:12.450
individual can do whatever with your

0:48:09.269,0:48:16.170
money we don't care but they are saying

0:48:12.450,0:48:18.869
the banks that it's your duty to

0:48:16.170,0:48:20.809
make sure that you do not get involved

0:48:18.869,0:48:24.780
in any kind of cryptocurrency

0:48:20.809,0:48:28.380
transaction okay so if you may happen to

0:48:24.780,0:48:31.380
have a yet to Bitcoin transfer through

0:48:28.380,0:48:33.510
your bank account and the RBI knows that

0:48:31.380,0:48:35.490
and the bank knows that the bank will

0:48:33.510,0:48:38.160
close your account because they will say

0:48:35.490,0:48:39.960
like RBI told us not to do this so we

0:48:38.160,0:48:41.849
can't allow you to do this so this is

0:48:39.960,0:48:44.130
the banking band situation right now

0:48:41.849,0:48:46.500
that is going on so all this blockchain

0:48:44.130,0:48:48.720
and deity people they are like really

0:48:46.500,0:48:50.940
putting up enough force and that's why I

0:48:48.720,0:48:53.700
don't really think these all these

0:48:50.940,0:48:57.750
things are bad ideas all these things

0:48:53.700,0:49:01.380
are relevant they are relevant and they

0:48:57.750,0:49:03.930
are here to put the required force on

0:49:01.380,0:49:07.500
the government to lift up these

0:49:03.930,0:49:09.630
restrictions so and they're doing a

0:49:07.500,0:49:13.530
really good job the community is doing a

0:49:09.630,0:49:16.890
really good job in taking the entire

0:49:13.530,0:49:18.930
force of the mass the entire incentives

0:49:16.890,0:49:20.220
of each and every individual most even

0:49:18.930,0:49:22.099
if it's for speculation

0:49:20.220,0:49:25.260
even is just for gambling but the

0:49:22.099,0:49:27.390
incentives are real and they are

0:49:25.260,0:49:29.760
gathering these incentives and kind of

0:49:27.390,0:49:34.200
building up this force on the government

0:49:29.760,0:49:37.559
through policymaking through discussions

0:49:34.200,0:49:39.240
and through media outlets to withdraw

0:49:37.559,0:49:42.119
this restriction and government is

0:49:39.240,0:49:44.760
finding really hard trying to are trying

0:49:42.119,0:49:46.829
to negotiate this domain right now

0:49:44.760,0:49:49.500
because one hand they don't want to be

0:49:46.829,0:49:51.720
left a left behind on our technical

0:49:49.500,0:49:53.190
revolution on the other hand they don't

0:49:51.720,0:49:55.829
want to be lose control over their

0:49:53.190,0:49:58.559
monetary policies so they are in a very

0:49:55.829,0:50:00.900
tricky situation right now just for the

0:49:58.559,0:50:04.890
record what is the RBI which you

0:50:00.900,0:50:07.790
mentioned RBI is the raise of Bank of

0:50:04.890,0:50:11.190
India it's the central bank is the say

0:50:07.790,0:50:13.500
okay you mentioned that about three

0:50:11.190,0:50:17.000
times and I didn't want to interrupt but

0:50:13.500,0:50:20.670
so it makes a lot of sense now

0:50:17.000,0:50:22.940
sorry I didn't get that I said that I'm

0:50:20.670,0:50:26.900
happy about the clarification

0:50:22.940,0:50:28.440
okay also I wanted to ask you about

0:50:26.900,0:50:31.380
politician view

0:50:28.440,0:50:35.220
or statements about Bitcoin if you had

0:50:31.380,0:50:39.480
any if you had any kind of means being

0:50:35.220,0:50:42.410
spread across the media no there hasn't

0:50:39.480,0:50:45.540
been much voice from the politicians

0:50:42.410,0:50:48.930
even from the central bankers RBI

0:50:45.540,0:50:52.290
governors and all those people they they

0:50:48.930,0:50:54.510
kind of have this IR like Lisa and they

0:50:52.290,0:50:57.630
kind of have this policy of not to talk

0:50:54.510,0:50:59.100
about this thing much in public and most

0:50:57.630,0:51:02.910
of the time when there has been

0:50:59.100,0:51:04.740
instances of reporters asking question

0:51:02.910,0:51:07.440
about these things they they seem to

0:51:04.740,0:51:10.290
wave off the issue as much as they can

0:51:07.440,0:51:12.960
but what happened I think this month or

0:51:10.290,0:51:15.720
last month I think this month there was

0:51:12.960,0:51:19.350
an interview where our to government

0:51:15.720,0:51:21.800
officials came into a local news channel

0:51:19.350,0:51:24.930
news channel and there were another

0:51:21.800,0:51:26.880
block chain business PR person also

0:51:24.930,0:51:28.800
there and they were having this nice

0:51:26.880,0:51:32.490
conversation of how the regulatory

0:51:28.800,0:51:34.890
situations can go along or can form and

0:51:32.490,0:51:36.980
how can learn from other countries what

0:51:34.890,0:51:39.840
they are doing so what was the

0:51:36.980,0:51:43.170
interesting thing I noticed in their

0:51:39.840,0:51:46.050
words is they are much more lenient no

0:51:43.170,0:51:48.060
they are not completely dismissive of it

0:51:46.050,0:51:51.030
because they know that being completely

0:51:48.060,0:51:53.730
dismissive doesn't work anymore but also

0:51:51.030,0:51:56.490
what they are trying to do is they are

0:51:53.730,0:52:00.120
trying to raise some ethical questions

0:51:56.490,0:52:02.730
about this kind of currencies suppose a

0:52:00.120,0:52:04.920
Bitcoin or private privacy coins like

0:52:02.730,0:52:06.390
Mona Rosie cash or something so what

0:52:04.920,0:52:08.460
they are saying is like these are the

0:52:06.390,0:52:10.620
coins that are being used by criminals

0:52:08.460,0:52:13.440
these are the coins that are misused by

0:52:10.620,0:52:16.140
money laundering yeah they are good for

0:52:13.440,0:52:18.960
monetary policies they can retain value

0:52:16.140,0:52:22.200
they are a good store of value but as a

0:52:18.960,0:52:24.960
responsible citizen do you really want

0:52:22.200,0:52:28.260
to put your value onto something which

0:52:24.960,0:52:31.740
is not completely ethical so they are

0:52:28.260,0:52:33.120
kind of pinching the sentiment in a

0:52:31.740,0:52:36.480
different way now

0:52:33.120,0:52:38.730
so instead of completely saying that

0:52:36.480,0:52:39.560
this is illegal you should not do it

0:52:38.730,0:52:42.470
they

0:52:39.560,0:52:44.660
they are more appealing for the moral

0:52:42.470,0:52:48.800
nature of individual returning to the

0:52:44.660,0:52:52.510
soul should listen to the show that it's

0:52:48.800,0:52:55.130
not actually very ethical thing to do so

0:52:52.510,0:52:56.780
that's our observation that I just made

0:52:55.130,0:52:58.100
I don't think it's much significant

0:52:56.780,0:53:00.500
because people are gonna do what they're

0:52:58.100,0:53:03.080
gonna do so it doesn't make much

0:53:00.500,0:53:06.080
difference but this is a very clear

0:53:03.080,0:53:09.340
change of their position that they have

0:53:06.080,0:53:13.160
shown I think they just shifted from

0:53:09.340,0:53:16.820
angle to bar gain in that five stages of

0:53:13.160,0:53:18.950
grief and so that was interesting yeah

0:53:16.820,0:53:21.620
it is fascinating but because usually

0:53:18.950,0:53:24.830
they make a pill to their power and they

0:53:21.620,0:53:28.520
say we tell you to not do it and you're

0:53:24.830,0:53:31.160
going to get punished by law yeah yeah

0:53:28.520,0:53:34.010
the change that stand from appeal to

0:53:31.160,0:53:35.840
individual ethics now because they know

0:53:34.010,0:53:38.360
that their power cannot stop this thing

0:53:35.840,0:53:43.010
this will try to appeal to religion in

0:53:38.360,0:53:44.840
any way no not necessarily right now not

0:53:43.010,0:53:46.970
necessarily right now me I don't think

0:53:44.840,0:53:52.000
the government official will go that far

0:53:46.970,0:53:55.070
to have religion religious ethics

0:53:52.000,0:53:56.990
imposed on using such kind of monetary

0:53:55.070,0:54:02.000
systems because that will be ridiculed

0:53:56.990,0:54:06.740
every like immediately by the community

0:54:02.000,0:54:09.980
or by the normal people because the

0:54:06.740,0:54:11.630
religious decorous works in the

0:54:09.980,0:54:13.940
subconscious of human culture but

0:54:11.630,0:54:15.740
doesn't work in the food front of

0:54:13.940,0:54:18.740
government power structures and

0:54:15.740,0:54:21.710
businesses and and the economic policies

0:54:18.740,0:54:23.360
and all so they haven't made any kind of

0:54:21.710,0:54:24.920
statements like that and I don't think

0:54:23.360,0:54:26.720
they will be maybe they will be making

0:54:24.920,0:54:30.500
any kind of stick the negatives that

0:54:26.720,0:54:33.560
that's very good actually as being able

0:54:30.500,0:54:36.860
to separate between religious beliefs

0:54:33.560,0:54:39.860
and the state is there step forwards in

0:54:36.860,0:54:43.040
terms of having a modern state and being

0:54:39.860,0:54:45.770
able to do politics at scale the most

0:54:43.040,0:54:49.160
just addressing a small or maybe a

0:54:45.770,0:54:51.380
majority of religious people is

0:54:49.160,0:54:52.750
something similar happening in Arabic

0:54:51.380,0:54:56.950
states where they were

0:54:52.750,0:54:59.950
reluctance to use Bitcoin maybe in the

0:54:56.950,0:55:02.170
morning they have a term for Bitcoin

0:54:59.950,0:55:06.490
they call it Haram money or something

0:55:02.170,0:55:10.210
like that because it means that it's so

0:55:06.490,0:55:11.560
this kind of this kind of things

0:55:10.210,0:55:14.470
actually shows you like how much

0:55:11.560,0:55:17.710
religion and state is interlinked in

0:55:14.470,0:55:20.230
particular states so the stains were

0:55:17.710,0:55:22.780
this religion and the nations were this

0:55:20.230,0:55:25.120
religion and stage are interlinked too

0:55:22.780,0:55:27.250
much like the stage and the business the

0:55:25.120,0:55:29.980
stage and the banking sector is in

0:55:27.250,0:55:31.930
telling too much in every every nations

0:55:29.980,0:55:34.510
around the world when these kind of

0:55:31.930,0:55:37.960
things happens the state tends to appeal

0:55:34.510,0:55:40.720
for the religious ethics that people

0:55:37.960,0:55:44.050
inherently have in their subconscious in

0:55:40.720,0:55:47.290
their guts so that's a very very very

0:55:44.050,0:55:50.560
dominant pin point for them to attack at

0:55:47.290,0:55:52.570
and you will be able to see this kind of

0:55:50.560,0:55:54.580
things happening in other progressive

0:55:52.570,0:55:56.620
countries where they have a complete

0:55:54.580,0:55:58.690
separation between the religious and the

0:55:56.620,0:56:00.550
religion and the state so that's a good

0:55:58.690,0:56:02.380
thing for a progressive society as you

0:56:00.550,0:56:05.290
have correctly pointed out it makes the

0:56:02.380,0:56:08.620
politics and to scale up for the society

0:56:05.290,0:56:11.020
that it needs well in this part of the

0:56:08.620,0:56:14.260
world it just happens that we saw in

0:56:11.020,0:56:18.220
Poland how they managed to put the

0:56:14.260,0:56:21.120
cattle II belief and religion into their

0:56:18.220,0:56:23.590
constitution and we also had a very

0:56:21.120,0:56:25.390
extremist religious group which was

0:56:23.590,0:56:27.460
trying to impose their agenda to the

0:56:25.390,0:56:29.110
extent that we were supposed to write

0:56:27.460,0:56:32.530
into the Constitution that we are

0:56:29.110,0:56:35.320
Christians and return to a set of norms

0:56:32.530,0:56:41.320
that are very traditional and very 19th

0:56:35.320,0:56:43.270
century before fascism that just one

0:56:41.320,0:56:46.900
step further from there and you end up

0:56:43.270,0:56:50.400
with a fascist state well depends on how

0:56:46.900,0:56:54.010
you define fascism as there have been

0:56:50.400,0:56:57.240
links between the church and the state

0:56:54.010,0:57:01.900
before fascism was even coined as a term

0:56:57.240,0:57:06.060
I guess in our modern consciousness we

0:57:01.900,0:57:09.610
perceive a strong link between being

0:57:06.060,0:57:12.370
question fundamentally and taking your

0:57:09.610,0:57:16.720
beliefs way too far and becoming a

0:57:12.370,0:57:18.970
fascist and rejecting maybe the values

0:57:16.720,0:57:22.230
or the realities that surround you and

0:57:18.970,0:57:25.210
do not comply with what you believe

0:57:22.230,0:57:27.910
hmm no that's true and that's what I

0:57:25.210,0:57:29.980
exactly I mean by fascism it's true that

0:57:27.910,0:57:31.630
there are a lot of different terms that

0:57:29.980,0:57:34.090
you how you described as it but that's

0:57:31.630,0:57:36.820
what I had in mind because I am seeing a

0:57:34.090,0:57:40.630
very similar kind of situation happening

0:57:36.820,0:57:44.050
in India also because the present party

0:57:40.630,0:57:48.400
which is at power is kind of backed by

0:57:44.050,0:57:51.460
this religious Hindu extremism it's not

0:57:48.400,0:57:55.900
extremism per se at this moment but the

0:57:51.460,0:57:58.560
situation can get very very bad very

0:57:55.900,0:58:02.410
fast from here because that's the recipe

0:57:58.560,0:58:04.810
that you have in blink in your system in

0:58:02.410,0:58:08.290
your political structures that can very

0:58:04.810,0:58:12.460
easily morph itself into a into an

0:58:08.290,0:58:16.030
Aussie like structure so when you have

0:58:12.460,0:58:18.160
this kind of I dunno G's belief systems

0:58:16.030,0:58:20.920
engraved in your Constitution it's not

0:58:18.160,0:58:22.630
happened in India yet that far but it's

0:58:20.920,0:58:25.470
true that the political party which is

0:58:22.630,0:58:30.100
right now in power come do comes from

0:58:25.470,0:58:32.260
Hindu majority support systems but but

0:58:30.100,0:58:36.220
the problem is like when this happens

0:58:32.260,0:58:40.500
the very next step is to is basically

0:58:36.220,0:58:43.060
seclusions and mass riot and all kind of

0:58:40.500,0:58:45.220
chaos that happens to the society

0:58:43.060,0:58:46.930
because one part of the group that

0:58:45.220,0:58:48.940
believes that they have the power and

0:58:46.930,0:58:52.780
they rightly have the power the believes

0:58:48.940,0:58:56.860
that they have a higher high they have a

0:58:52.780,0:58:59.500
higher definition of morality than other

0:58:56.860,0:59:00.910
groups that have these groups are not

0:58:59.500,0:59:04.450
moral and that's a very dangerous

0:59:00.910,0:59:07.390
situation let's get something more

0:59:04.450,0:59:10.060
practical and which is closer to the

0:59:07.390,0:59:12.910
topic that we have surrounding Bitcoin

0:59:10.060,0:59:16.840
and let's imagine that right now I

0:59:12.910,0:59:18.460
travel to India and I lose everything I

0:59:16.840,0:59:21.190
lose my passport I

0:59:18.460,0:59:24.369
was my money and all I have is maybe a

0:59:21.190,0:59:28.150
cell phone with some Bitcoin in it will

0:59:24.369,0:59:30.910
I be able to survive not necessarily not

0:59:28.150,0:59:32.830
necessarily you you have to convert it

0:59:30.910,0:59:36.070
some way to fear because there is nobody

0:59:32.830,0:59:39.640
who accepts Bitcoin as a payment for

0:59:36.070,0:59:41.410
goods and services in India yet so at

0:59:39.640,0:59:44.020
this moment what you need to do is you

0:59:41.410,0:59:46.480
have to have some form of way to get

0:59:44.020,0:59:48.970
that converted into fear so now if you

0:59:46.480,0:59:50.560
don't have a banking account right in

0:59:48.970,0:59:52.630
the country if you come out from

0:59:50.560,0:59:54.700
somewhere else you have people have no

0:59:52.630,0:59:57.010
banking accounts so you cannot have a

0:59:54.700,0:59:59.710
bank transfer so most of the people to

0:59:57.010,1:00:03.010
peer exchanges that are working in India

0:59:59.710,1:00:06.609
who happens to bank transverses and I am

1:00:03.010,1:00:08.950
not aware of any OTC desk that is a

1:00:06.609,1:00:12.849
place right now where you can buy

1:00:08.950,1:00:15.400
Bitcoin from cash and because the moment

1:00:12.849,1:00:16.660
you try to do something like that the

1:00:15.400,1:00:19.839
government will come and shut you down

1:00:16.660,1:00:22.780
and put you into change so it will be

1:00:19.839,1:00:25.720
very difficult to survive on Bitcoin if

1:00:22.780,1:00:27.490
you have no means to convert it into

1:00:25.720,1:00:30.190
fear so what you can do is you can call

1:00:27.490,1:00:32.230
up your friend you can tell that like I

1:00:30.190,1:00:35.230
want to use your bank account so you

1:00:32.230,1:00:38.440
send that money to an exchange guy you

1:00:35.230,1:00:39.160
go to an exchange like local bitcoins or

1:00:38.440,1:00:41.589
adenoidal

1:00:39.160,1:00:43.599
or mosaics or there are many of these

1:00:41.589,1:00:45.640
such things you can go there and you

1:00:43.599,1:00:47.080
meet a transaction with somebody else

1:00:45.640,1:00:48.550
you sell those bill go and get the

1:00:47.080,1:00:50.200
phenotype your friends account and then

1:00:48.550,1:00:52.510
friend can cash it out and hand it over

1:00:50.200,1:00:56.460
to you you can do that way but not

1:00:52.510,1:00:59.619
directly but let's forget about this

1:00:56.460,1:01:02.740
appeal to a third party which is either

1:00:59.619,1:01:05.140
institutional or commercial when you use

1:01:02.740,1:01:07.570
the service and let's say that I go to

1:01:05.140,1:01:10.060
the merchants directly and I tell them

1:01:07.570,1:01:12.310
how about you take Bitcoin as a form of

1:01:10.060,1:01:14.890
payment you think there are any chances

1:01:12.310,1:01:17.140
of persuading them because they know

1:01:14.890,1:01:20.380
Bitcoin and they understand that it has

1:01:17.140,1:01:22.300
value they do but they do heart of

1:01:20.380,1:01:26.120
Bitcoin they understand it has a value

1:01:22.300,1:01:28.100
but they don't know how to use it they

1:01:26.120,1:01:29.840
they do not have an exchange account

1:01:28.100,1:01:32.510
necessarily because if you go to the

1:01:29.840,1:01:34.310
next store grocery store they will not

1:01:32.510,1:01:36.290
have an exchange account because they

1:01:34.310,1:01:37.790
have bigger problem to solve in their

1:01:36.290,1:01:40.790
life than to speculate on

1:01:37.790,1:01:42.410
cryptocurrencies so they even if they

1:01:40.790,1:01:44.390
heard about Bitcoin they will not be

1:01:42.410,1:01:46.160
able to exchange accept it because they

1:01:44.390,1:01:49.130
don't have the required infrastructure

1:01:46.160,1:01:51.590
at place so the only thing that they

1:01:49.130,1:01:53.840
need to have an access is is just a

1:01:51.590,1:01:55.400
computer running abhi TCP server so

1:01:53.840,1:01:56.840
that's all they need to know that that's

1:01:55.400,1:02:00.770
all then you could have but they don't

1:01:56.840,1:02:03.140
know that they need to do this in order

1:02:00.770,1:02:05.930
to accept Bitcoin or they don't even

1:02:03.140,1:02:10.490
know that why they should accept Bitcoin

1:02:05.930,1:02:12.620
because the the me either the prevent

1:02:10.490,1:02:14.690
ender that is being transferred through

1:02:12.620,1:02:16.520
the mainstream media even though the

1:02:14.690,1:02:17.900
government is not directly saying it the

1:02:16.520,1:02:19.610
mainstream media is watching the

1:02:17.900,1:02:21.290
government statement and producing in

1:02:19.610,1:02:23.390
front of public in such a way that the

1:02:21.290,1:02:27.110
public feels that bitcoin is right now

1:02:23.390,1:02:29.930
something illegal so that's another

1:02:27.110,1:02:32.300
thing that the community is trying to

1:02:29.930,1:02:34.100
fight off very hard the government never

1:02:32.300,1:02:37.280
said it's illegal they just say their

1:02:34.100,1:02:40.850
banks do not do not to be a part of that

1:02:37.280,1:02:43.190
kind of exchange so but the but the

1:02:40.850,1:02:45.410
translation of that statement in front

1:02:43.190,1:02:47.950
of the common people is that bitcoin is

1:02:45.410,1:02:50.270
something illegal so if you try to

1:02:47.950,1:02:56.360
persuade someone in a grocery store

1:02:50.270,1:02:58.580
owner as a accept Bitcoin as a exchange

1:02:56.360,1:02:59.390
of goods and service he might have heard

1:02:58.580,1:03:01.280
about Bitcoin

1:02:59.390,1:03:03.200
he might have know that it is going

1:03:01.280,1:03:05.390
value but in his subconscious you also

1:03:03.200,1:03:08.720
miss consciousness he also knows that

1:03:05.390,1:03:10.730
it's something illegal so probability is

1:03:08.720,1:03:15.770
that he will answer you with early

1:03:10.730,1:03:18.140
sounding no now it makes sense as you

1:03:15.770,1:03:20.420
have fiscal authorities and you have

1:03:18.140,1:03:22.730
people who check your supply of goods

1:03:20.420,1:03:25.280
and if they discover that they have

1:03:22.730,1:03:29.300
given something away and there is no way

1:03:25.280,1:03:31.640
for them to prove that they have taken

1:03:29.300,1:03:35.870
any form of money then they can get

1:03:31.640,1:03:37.610
accused of stealing yeah no they can get

1:03:35.870,1:03:39.170
into a lot of trouble by doing that so

1:03:37.610,1:03:40.820
even if they want to do that they

1:03:39.170,1:03:44.870
they might not want to take that extra

1:03:40.820,1:03:47.030
added risk that comes with that baby it

1:03:44.870,1:03:49.670
makes sense is there any piece of

1:03:47.030,1:03:53.540
legislation in India which specifically

1:03:49.670,1:03:55.610
mentions Bitcoin right now it's not

1:03:53.540,1:03:58.370
right not not right now they're in the

1:03:55.610,1:03:59.990
process of forming such revolutions but

1:03:58.370,1:04:02.510
they have been in the process of running

1:03:59.990,1:04:04.640
such regulation for the last three four

1:04:02.510,1:04:06.710
years they haven't been able to come up

1:04:04.640,1:04:10.810
with anything concrete or anything

1:04:06.710,1:04:15.050
documented few weeks back there was this

1:04:10.810,1:04:17.570
leaked document a draft from the

1:04:15.050,1:04:20.180
committee that has been formed to make a

1:04:17.570,1:04:21.980
legislation or proper regulation on

1:04:20.180,1:04:24.380
cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin by the

1:04:21.980,1:04:27.200
Supreme Court there was some liquid

1:04:24.380,1:04:32.900
document that seems to suggest that this

1:04:27.200,1:04:34.910
committee is suggesting the Congress to

1:04:32.900,1:04:38.180
pass a bill that will make Bitcoin

1:04:34.910,1:04:41.480
illegal that means dealing selling

1:04:38.180,1:04:45.350
buying and even holding Bitcoin can put

1:04:41.480,1:04:48.950
you in jail for 10 years so that's a

1:04:45.350,1:04:50.600
very scary situation and a lot of talk

1:04:48.950,1:04:52.640
has been happened over that and it

1:04:50.600,1:04:56.600
turned out that it was just a draft bill

1:04:52.640,1:05:00.830
so even if the bill does include a

1:04:56.600,1:05:03.370
clause like that it seems unlikely to me

1:05:00.830,1:05:06.200
that it will actually get implemented

1:05:03.370,1:05:08.330
and right now that so many things are

1:05:06.200,1:05:10.370
happening on this blockchain and Dale

1:05:08.330,1:05:12.890
teas and other cryptocurrency stores

1:05:10.370,1:05:16.460
around the space yeah that's very

1:05:12.890,1:05:19.070
interesting as most European countries

1:05:16.460,1:05:22.640
already have some kind of regulations in

1:05:19.070,1:05:24.830
terms of making sure that you pay taxes

1:05:22.640,1:05:29.270
for the Bitcoin that you comforted and

1:05:24.830,1:05:31.520
Sofia now we don't have anything right

1:05:29.270,1:05:33.500
now in India like that it will be very

1:05:31.520,1:05:34.820
necessary for the community to even

1:05:33.500,1:05:37.370
properly function there are a lot of

1:05:34.820,1:05:40.040
businesses in this market lots of

1:05:37.370,1:05:41.930
exchanges who are shutting down their

1:05:40.040,1:05:43.970
shop just because this kind of

1:05:41.930,1:05:46.400
regulatory issues so the regulatory

1:05:43.970,1:05:48.349
situation in India is a very obscure

1:05:46.400,1:05:51.259
right now it's not at all clear No

1:05:48.349,1:05:53.269
has any clue how they are going to

1:05:51.259,1:05:55.779
behave what they are going to consider

1:05:53.269,1:05:58.700
and it's very difficult for the

1:05:55.779,1:06:00.259
entrepreneurs to make business in these

1:05:58.700,1:06:02.059
kind of situations and that's what we

1:06:00.259,1:06:04.339
are seeing here a lot of people are

1:06:02.059,1:06:09.499
closing shop they just cannot sustain

1:06:04.339,1:06:12.769
this uncertainty I was thinking right

1:06:09.499,1:06:17.869
now at a comparison with China which is

1:06:12.769,1:06:19.759
also populous country and they had many

1:06:17.869,1:06:22.759
instances in which they announced that

1:06:19.759,1:06:24.650
they were banning Bitcoin but at the

1:06:22.759,1:06:28.190
same time they had these mining raids

1:06:24.650,1:06:31.819
that were running are you aware of any

1:06:28.190,1:06:32.690
mining going on in India I'm not

1:06:31.819,1:06:36.619
particularly

1:06:32.690,1:06:38.989
I haven't been came across anybody

1:06:36.619,1:06:42.619
saying any kind of mining activity going

1:06:38.989,1:06:44.989
anywhere in India I am NOT very sure

1:06:42.619,1:06:47.380
about the mining profit loss

1:06:44.989,1:06:49.759
calculations regarding the current

1:06:47.380,1:06:51.739
electricity price in most of the cities

1:06:49.759,1:06:53.960
and around the villages of India I'd I'm

1:06:51.739,1:06:55.460
not sure how it turns out but it seems

1:06:53.960,1:06:59.180
to me there is not much mining

1:06:55.460,1:07:02.059
activities happening in India and if it

1:06:59.180,1:07:03.829
has been happening and I think the

1:07:02.059,1:07:06.559
government would have already stopped it

1:07:03.829,1:07:08.690
by now because they seems to be keen on

1:07:06.559,1:07:11.269
stopping all these kind of activities

1:07:08.690,1:07:13.519
that are happening until they manage to

1:07:11.269,1:07:15.259
come up with a proper regulations and

1:07:13.519,1:07:16.329
proper decision how they are going to

1:07:15.259,1:07:19.249
handle this

1:07:16.329,1:07:19.789
let's say that India bans Bitcoin

1:07:19.249,1:07:22.880
tomorrow

1:07:19.789,1:07:27.079
is there any way for you to appeal to

1:07:22.880,1:07:31.279
that political process and maybe contact

1:07:27.079,1:07:34.819
your representatives and help to draft a

1:07:31.279,1:07:39.349
better bill which favors the bitcoiners

1:07:34.819,1:07:42.979
in your country there is no structured

1:07:39.349,1:07:45.319
process for that I think a lot of people

1:07:42.979,1:07:48.489
will do that and a lot of people will

1:07:45.319,1:07:51.460
come out and put their poles together to

1:07:48.489,1:07:52.640
to import cents in this kind of

1:07:51.460,1:07:55.069
ridiculous

1:07:52.640,1:07:56.930
abandon if that happens a part of the

1:07:55.069,1:07:58.570
very obvious things that they can try to

1:07:56.930,1:08:00.700
import into the government

1:07:58.570,1:08:03.790
that this kind of banning doesn't work

1:08:00.700,1:08:06.670
if you try to ban it the entire system

1:08:03.790,1:08:08.710
will still exist but it will only exist

1:08:06.670,1:08:10.840
in the dark mark and the government

1:08:08.710,1:08:13.480
knows that indeed this is the thing

1:08:10.840,1:08:16.540
about India India has a very huge dark

1:08:13.480,1:08:19.060
mud it has all sorts of illegal market

1:08:16.540,1:08:21.880
in every cities in every village and you

1:08:19.060,1:08:24.400
can get anything in anywhere if you pay

1:08:21.880,1:08:26.920
the price for it so the dark matter the

1:08:24.400,1:08:29.890
black market problem is very big in

1:08:26.920,1:08:32.080
India and it's kind of a bigger part of

1:08:29.890,1:08:33.850
the economy in many places where the

1:08:32.080,1:08:35.380
white market is the smaller one and the

1:08:33.850,1:08:39.760
black market is the actual market

1:08:35.380,1:08:42.310
pairing go to buy stuff so as this kind

1:08:39.760,1:08:44.680
of markets exist very freely and very

1:08:42.310,1:08:47.049
fluently in India it's it will become

1:08:44.680,1:08:48.880
very difficult for government to

1:08:47.049,1:08:51.060
implement this kind of bail because the

1:08:48.880,1:08:54.880
moment this kind of band will happen

1:08:51.060,1:08:59.589
what people will start doing is it's the

1:08:54.880,1:09:02.430
same please make you TC cash cash

1:08:59.589,1:09:05.680
transaction test on ramps for Bitcoin in

1:09:02.430,1:09:07.480
corners of markets like black alleys or

1:09:05.680,1:09:08.980
something like that and these kind of

1:09:07.480,1:09:12.010
things will keep on popping popping up

1:09:08.980,1:09:15.010
so the government needs to know that if

1:09:12.010,1:09:17.470
they try to go to that path what will

1:09:15.010,1:09:20.440
happen is they will not be able to stop

1:09:17.470,1:09:23.140
it but the entire economy will go into

1:09:20.440,1:09:25.180
the black market and they cannot they do

1:09:23.140,1:09:27.370
they already cannot stop the black

1:09:25.180,1:09:29.319
market so they all they can't stop black

1:09:27.370,1:09:32.770
well bitcoin in black markets that's

1:09:29.319,1:09:36.190
even a more difficult problem so I think

1:09:32.770,1:09:40.150
if the government goes does go around

1:09:36.190,1:09:43.990
this part and there there are people who

1:09:40.150,1:09:47.350
will come forward even yeah I would come

1:09:43.990,1:09:49.630
forward and try to import sense into

1:09:47.350,1:09:51.609
this legislation that this is not the

1:09:49.630,1:09:54.570
way you should handle it because it will

1:09:51.609,1:09:56.920
only make the situation worse

1:09:54.570,1:09:59.920
so right now

1:09:56.920,1:10:02.920
considering your views you're basically

1:09:59.920,1:10:05.740
a red pillar it's too late for you to

1:10:02.920,1:10:09.760
get back to that old beliefs that used

1:10:05.740,1:10:11.409
to have and if the situation in India

1:10:09.760,1:10:14.590
was to get very bad and

1:10:11.409,1:10:17.380
you you basically had no way to use your

1:10:14.590,1:10:24.400
bitcoins but you consider leaving your

1:10:17.380,1:10:26.590
home country probably it depends on a

1:10:24.400,1:10:28.709
lot of situations leaving your home

1:10:26.590,1:10:33.519
country is a very difficult part and

1:10:28.709,1:10:36.099
because in India we we live in these

1:10:33.519,1:10:38.619
kind of social structures where you live

1:10:36.099,1:10:40.959
close nearby to your parents in leave

1:10:38.619,1:10:43.389
tools nearby to your daily things you

1:10:40.959,1:10:45.249
have this kind of social culture around

1:10:43.389,1:10:47.949
you in localities in one most to move

1:10:45.249,1:10:52.329
people around you so it's very difficult

1:10:47.949,1:10:56.019
to save all this kind of ties and leave

1:10:52.329,1:10:59.349
to another country just because they

1:10:56.019,1:11:03.400
don't let you use Bitcoin it's it's not

1:10:59.349,1:11:05.499
a good enough barking for me it says

1:11:03.400,1:11:09.010
because there are other important stuffs

1:11:05.499,1:11:13.780
in my life that I will I will tend to

1:11:09.010,1:11:15.280
attain to then then putting my

1:11:13.780,1:11:18.459
priorities on Bitcoin Bitcoin is

1:11:15.280,1:11:20.949
important for me and I would love to

1:11:18.459,1:11:24.039
have my savings in bitcoins and I might

1:11:20.949,1:11:26.349
not love to use at the store but if I if

1:11:24.039,1:11:29.769
they have improved some kind of dance

1:11:26.349,1:11:32.019
and I cannot use Bitcoin right now that

1:11:29.769,1:11:34.300
doesn't that doesn't affect me much

1:11:32.019,1:11:36.519
because I am not using Bitcoin anyway

1:11:34.300,1:11:38.709
because there is no close to economic

1:11:36.519,1:11:44.050
going on right now with bit one and that

1:11:38.709,1:11:48.340
is one of my goal to do in this because

1:11:44.050,1:11:50.380
in a so ecosystem where I can I can have

1:11:48.340,1:11:53.889
this kind of kind of closed-loop

1:11:50.380,1:11:56.530
economies where people accepting Bitcoin

1:11:53.889,1:11:59.320
as exchange of goods and services we

1:11:56.530,1:12:01.329
don't have that right now so even the

1:11:59.320,1:12:03.309
government is not burning it I still

1:12:01.329,1:12:05.559
continues my big ones because there is

1:12:03.309,1:12:07.119
no one accepting it so it's going to

1:12:05.559,1:12:08.499
take some time to have that kind of

1:12:07.119,1:12:10.539
closed low economy but just because

1:12:08.499,1:12:13.809
government banning it I don't think I'll

1:12:10.539,1:12:16.059
be leaving my country but that's a huge

1:12:13.809,1:12:19.239
power which the government has over you

1:12:16.059,1:12:22.300
as a citizen as you just know that

1:12:19.239,1:12:23.019
you're bound to your family and your

1:12:22.300,1:12:24.650
house

1:12:23.019,1:12:27.620
so yes

1:12:24.650,1:12:29.570
in very specific terms relating to this

1:12:27.620,1:12:32.750
industry that's the central points of

1:12:29.570,1:12:34.520
failure true true very true that's the

1:12:32.750,1:12:36.560
central point of failure and that's a

1:12:34.520,1:12:39.950
dam that that's that's a very big

1:12:36.560,1:12:42.500
shackle that you have around you and the

1:12:39.950,1:12:45.230
government is kind of kit and game that

1:12:42.500,1:12:47.300
shackle to force you to do things that

1:12:45.230,1:12:50.180
you might not want to do or force you to

1:12:47.300,1:12:53.240
do things force you not to do things

1:12:50.180,1:12:56.030
that they don't subscribe to and that's

1:12:53.240,1:12:59.360
a very true problem and I don't know how

1:12:56.030,1:13:02.750
I can solve that right now I can only

1:12:59.360,1:13:06.440
hope the situation will not do much

1:13:02.750,1:13:09.050
worse because it's really very difficult

1:13:06.440,1:13:12.410
for me to go settle in different country

1:13:09.050,1:13:16.670
and severe or save or all these ties

1:13:12.410,1:13:18.860
that I have yeah that's go it's it's the

1:13:16.670,1:13:20.590
central point of failure and I'm kind of

1:13:18.860,1:13:25.460
like hoping that that central point

1:13:20.590,1:13:28.460
doesn't do something very bad now in

1:13:25.460,1:13:30.710
some cases like Venezuela there were

1:13:28.460,1:13:33.890
entire families which moved out of the

1:13:30.710,1:13:35.810
country because of Bitcoin it's not

1:13:33.890,1:13:41.510
because a Bitcoin but thanks to Bitcoin

1:13:35.810,1:13:43.370
as yes they are I think the situation in

1:13:41.510,1:13:45.320
Venezuela made people do that because

1:13:43.370,1:13:46.610
the situation is so much dire there it's

1:13:45.320,1:13:48.830
not that bad

1:13:46.610,1:13:51.080
I told you about before the currency is

1:13:48.830,1:13:55.040
kind of stable it's not completely

1:13:51.080,1:13:57.350
collapsing people still can use it as

1:13:55.040,1:14:01.460
their penis it does use it as the unit

1:13:57.350,1:14:04.190
of account and and the situation the

1:14:01.460,1:14:06.860
theater is not burning enough right now

1:14:04.190,1:14:09.320
that doesn't say that it will not burn

1:14:06.860,1:14:12.020
in some kind of future with that much

1:14:09.320,1:14:15.560
force it can burn us but it's not just

1:14:12.020,1:14:17.570
burning at that heat right now so that

1:14:15.560,1:14:19.460
the people are not screaming out of the

1:14:17.570,1:14:22.220
theater and moving out through that exit

1:14:19.460,1:14:24.410
or they are just it's just warm they are

1:14:22.220,1:14:27.770
just feeling the heat but it's not warm

1:14:24.410,1:14:31.700
enough so that to make them leave the if

1:14:27.770,1:14:34.970
that makes sense it does I mean even

1:14:31.700,1:14:36.520
when I think in my case I'm part of the

1:14:34.970,1:14:39.130
European Union

1:14:36.520,1:14:42.940
and that has both advantages and

1:14:39.130,1:14:46.270
disadvantages on one hand I am able to

1:14:42.940,1:14:47.980
leave to any country any of the 27 other

1:14:46.270,1:14:51.400
countries which are part of this

1:14:47.980,1:14:54.910
organization but at the same time we

1:14:51.400,1:14:58.420
have a legal framework which comes from

1:14:54.910,1:15:01.480
Brussels so if they decide at the

1:14:58.420,1:15:05.730
European Union level to ban Bitcoin then

1:15:01.480,1:15:09.670
it's going to be felt in all the states

1:15:05.730,1:15:12.610
so I'm thinking sometimes that the worst

1:15:09.670,1:15:16.060
that we can have in terms of political

1:15:12.610,1:15:19.930
reception hasn't happened yet and part

1:15:16.060,1:15:22.680
of the reason why I'm happy about the

1:15:19.930,1:15:26.380
developments in Bitcoin is that I see a

1:15:22.680,1:15:28.480
lot of institutional friendliness words

1:15:26.380,1:15:30.340
it I don't care much about their

1:15:28.480,1:15:32.800
adoption and how much they're buying it

1:15:30.340,1:15:36.250
and how much they invest in it but the

1:15:32.800,1:15:38.560
fact that they show interest means that

1:15:36.250,1:15:41.470
it's not going to get banned at least

1:15:38.560,1:15:43.690
not in the Western world yeah I had the

1:15:41.470,1:15:46.540
same kind of feeling here because I told

1:15:43.690,1:15:48.100
you about that interview that TV show

1:15:46.540,1:15:49.900
that happened on you show that happened

1:15:48.100,1:15:54.070
but to come to government officials were

1:15:49.900,1:15:57.490
there and the optimistic view that I

1:15:54.070,1:16:00.460
ended up and that show is that they just

1:15:57.490,1:16:02.350
shifted from anger to parking so that

1:16:00.460,1:16:05.440
means they are moving up through the

1:16:02.350,1:16:08.290
ladders of stages on graves so that

1:16:05.440,1:16:11.920
means that there is now less probability

1:16:08.290,1:16:14.290
that they will make a outright ban than

1:16:11.920,1:16:16.780
it was two three years ago two three

1:16:14.290,1:16:19.060
years ago they might have higher chance

1:16:16.780,1:16:20.560
of considering outright ban but they

1:16:19.060,1:16:22.360
just showed that they have a lower

1:16:20.560,1:16:24.730
chance of it just because showing that

1:16:22.360,1:16:28.090
they stepped up the ladder from anger to

1:16:24.730,1:16:31.060
bargain so that's a good sign also as a

1:16:28.090,1:16:34.630
politician it makes a lot more sense to

1:16:31.060,1:16:38.590
try not to divide the people and collect

1:16:34.630,1:16:42.490
taxes as opposed to instilling fear and

1:16:38.590,1:16:47.770
using making use of the force that you

1:16:42.490,1:16:49.380
have yes yes yes the biggest incentive

1:16:47.770,1:16:51.630
for a politician

1:16:49.380,1:16:53.850
politicians to ban Bitcoin is because if

1:16:51.630,1:16:55.889
they don't ban Bitcoin they have this

1:16:53.850,1:16:58.230
exchanges running and through this

1:16:55.889,1:17:00.540
exchanges they can at least collect the

1:16:58.230,1:17:03.510
taxes that they want if they ban a

1:17:00.540,1:17:05.940
Bitcoin the market immediately goes to

1:17:03.510,1:17:08.580
the black market the plan zone and they

1:17:05.940,1:17:11.340
do not explodes on anyway so they lose a

1:17:08.580,1:17:13.290
huge amount of X from the economic

1:17:11.340,1:17:16.110
activity that will be happening and they

1:17:13.290,1:17:20.010
might not want that even if they have

1:17:16.110,1:17:22.650
any kind of any any simple intelligent

1:17:20.010,1:17:24.449
politicians will decide not to bandit

1:17:22.650,1:17:26.460
when if they understand will be mostly

1:17:24.449,1:17:30.060
anything about it one and I think they

1:17:26.460,1:17:32.370
do they do a lot of blood they have been

1:17:30.060,1:17:35.190
studying a lot and that has been shown

1:17:32.370,1:17:37.679
either I have seen that in that past a

1:17:35.190,1:17:39.960
new show that happened so they know on

1:17:37.679,1:17:42.420
they understand these problems they know

1:17:39.960,1:17:45.060
that they can stop it they understand

1:17:42.420,1:17:47.670
the privacy issues they understand the

1:17:45.060,1:17:51.480
laundering issues and they are trying

1:17:47.670,1:17:54.830
really hard to come up with a sensible

1:17:51.480,1:17:57.000
way of dealing with this thing that

1:17:54.830,1:18:00.090
doesn't necessarily make the situation

1:17:57.000,1:18:02.159
immediately Wars and banning Bitcoin

1:18:00.090,1:18:04.230
outright will immediately make the

1:18:02.159,1:18:07.650
situation much much worse and I'll be

1:18:04.230,1:18:10.530
surprised if they do that but if they

1:18:07.650,1:18:14.429
shifted their position as you said from

1:18:10.530,1:18:16.860
being angry to being willing to

1:18:14.429,1:18:19.469
cooperate then there must have been some

1:18:16.860,1:18:21.360
kind of pressure coming their way there

1:18:19.469,1:18:24.870
must have been some people who tell them

1:18:21.360,1:18:29.699
you know it's a lot better to allow this

1:18:24.870,1:18:31.639
to flourish and we can collect taxes so

1:18:29.699,1:18:34.530
there must be a large community right

1:18:31.639,1:18:36.420
yeah I think there is something

1:18:34.530,1:18:39.179
interesting happening here it's not even

1:18:36.420,1:18:41.790
about the community I think many of the

1:18:39.179,1:18:44.370
politicians are waking up to this fact

1:18:41.790,1:18:47.940
that Bitcoin is a fucking good store of

1:18:44.370,1:18:50.760
value so they want to have that store of

1:18:47.940,1:18:53.610
value for themselves so they have their

1:18:50.760,1:18:55.440
inherent interest self interest not to

1:18:53.610,1:18:55.640
ban this thing because they would want

1:18:55.440,1:18:58.220
to

1:18:55.640,1:18:59.140
use this thing because it's good for

1:18:58.220,1:19:02.420
them also

1:18:59.140,1:19:05.450
we did not have this kind of awesome

1:19:02.420,1:19:06.490
store of value before bitcoins so it

1:19:05.450,1:19:09.710
makes sense

1:19:06.490,1:19:12.680
and if you know anything about Indian

1:19:09.710,1:19:15.350
politics and it scans you will see all

1:19:12.680,1:19:18.470
these politicians have huge amount of

1:19:15.350,1:19:22.130
wealth stores in foreign banks or in

1:19:18.470,1:19:24.860
underground or even as a gold as a stack

1:19:22.130,1:19:27.950
under their mattress this thing happens

1:19:24.860,1:19:31.460
and this is such a menace in India that

1:19:27.950,1:19:34.520
I think a lot of people will wake up to

1:19:31.460,1:19:36.530
this fact that the reason they were

1:19:34.520,1:19:39.230
doing this thing is because they want to

1:19:36.530,1:19:41.060
store this huge massive wealth that they

1:19:39.230,1:19:44.180
have gathered through corruptions or

1:19:41.060,1:19:46.370
through whatever ways or to whatever

1:19:44.180,1:19:48.650
other different waste they want to

1:19:46.370,1:19:51.170
retain that wealth and they want they

1:19:48.650,1:19:54.200
they don't want to not only they don't

1:19:51.170,1:19:56.180
want to tax on it they don't want it to

1:19:54.200,1:19:59.150
inflate away they don't want it to

1:19:56.180,1:20:01.130
inflate away so the thing that they do

1:19:59.150,1:20:03.740
they immediately convert it into hard

1:20:01.130,1:20:06.770
assets like real estates like good like

1:20:03.740,1:20:08.390
foreign dollars and put it into foreign

1:20:06.770,1:20:10.610
bank accounts the reason they are doing

1:20:08.390,1:20:12.920
that because they want to escape out of

1:20:10.610,1:20:14.570
the inflation whatever the small little

1:20:12.920,1:20:16.340
inflation it's not even small it's quite

1:20:14.570,1:20:17.930
big whatever the inflation that is

1:20:16.340,1:20:20.330
happening through Indian currencies they

1:20:17.930,1:20:21.860
don't they don't keep that wealth in

1:20:20.330,1:20:23.510
Indian currency they immediately convert

1:20:21.860,1:20:24.830
it the reason they convert it because

1:20:23.510,1:20:26.540
they want to store through it is going

1:20:24.830,1:20:29.600
through time and once they realize that

1:20:26.540,1:20:31.600
bitcoin is the best of all the store of

1:20:29.600,1:20:34.190
values that has that we have right now

1:20:31.600,1:20:37.310
they will have a huge amount of

1:20:34.190,1:20:39.500
self-interest to want to use Bitcoin so

1:20:37.310,1:20:41.450
I think not only there is a pressure

1:20:39.500,1:20:44.000
from the community which is also there

1:20:41.450,1:20:45.860
as lots of businesses are trying to make

1:20:44.000,1:20:47.930
and they are also arguing like if you

1:20:45.860,1:20:49.250
try to bear if you are in the government

1:20:47.930,1:20:51.200
that if you try to ban it what will

1:20:49.250,1:20:53.000
happen is we will all lose all these

1:20:51.200,1:20:55.250
economic activities and we lose out if

1:20:53.000,1:20:57.470
the phone for forefront of this emerging

1:20:55.250,1:20:59.510
technology well that is also happening I

1:20:57.470,1:21:01.010
think also the politicians are waking up

1:20:59.510,1:21:03.440
to this fact that this is a very good

1:21:01.010,1:21:06.190
store of value for a malls and that's

1:21:03.440,1:21:09.170
also a reason that they will not bear it

1:21:06.190,1:21:11.719
so we have here another

1:21:09.170,1:21:15.560
instance where the situation is solved

1:21:11.719,1:21:18.980
by human greed and maybe it's part of

1:21:15.560,1:21:23.690
the solution an extension of the

1:21:18.980,1:21:26.060
Byzantine generals problem this is what

1:21:23.690,1:21:28.699
blew my mind when I first saw Bitcoin in

1:21:26.060,1:21:31.730
first two days the way he solves that

1:21:28.699,1:21:35.210
age-old problem of order without

1:21:31.730,1:21:38.660
structure is he use our incentive

1:21:35.210,1:21:42.110
mechanism to model a design that works

1:21:38.660,1:21:44.750
on human greed the order emerges out of

1:21:42.110,1:21:47.150
human greed because human are greedy

1:21:44.750,1:21:48.980
that's how that's why Bitcoin works

1:21:47.150,1:21:50.960
that's my mining works that's why you

1:21:48.980,1:21:53.510
have the longest change that's why the

1:21:50.960,1:21:56.600
system is not disintegrating itself into

1:21:53.510,1:21:59.570
chaos because humans are greedy and that

1:21:56.600,1:22:02.840
is the crucial brilliance of Satoshi

1:21:59.570,1:22:06.650
nakamoto's design that he used greed to

1:22:02.840,1:22:08.360
make order out of chaos and basically he

1:22:06.650,1:22:10.130
used human greed to create a

1:22:08.360,1:22:13.219
deterministic anarchic system and that

1:22:10.130,1:22:15.710
is just fascinating yes I guess he

1:22:13.219,1:22:19.520
understood money a lot better than most

1:22:15.710,1:22:21.560
of our economists yeah yeah it's

1:22:19.520,1:22:25.270
sometimes if sometimes blows my mind

1:22:21.560,1:22:29.120
like how can someone have did this many

1:22:25.270,1:22:31.940
ingenious idea in one single design from

1:22:29.120,1:22:35.390
all these different fields like you have

1:22:31.940,1:22:37.370
to be a very good at writing code you

1:22:35.390,1:22:39.980
have to be very good and understanding

1:22:37.370,1:22:41.719
cryptography you have to be unless very

1:22:39.980,1:22:42.920
good at understanding game theory you

1:22:41.719,1:22:45.469
will have to be very good at

1:22:42.920,1:22:48.380
understanding economics you have to be

1:22:45.469,1:22:50.840
very good at designing the entire human

1:22:48.380,1:22:53.210
psychology that should make that system

1:22:50.840,1:22:55.630
work it's just not a simple

1:22:53.210,1:22:57.590
cryptographic base a cryptographic

1:22:55.630,1:23:00.320
structure it's not just a simple

1:22:57.590,1:23:04.580
computer code it's a huge massive

1:23:00.320,1:23:06.679
incentive human social engineered thingy

1:23:04.580,1:23:09.830
I don't even know how to describe it and

1:23:06.679,1:23:11.929
it just works and it works because of

1:23:09.830,1:23:14.120
human greed and it's it's just so

1:23:11.929,1:23:16.309
fascinating I sometimes think that it

1:23:14.120,1:23:19.579
cannot be just one people

1:23:16.309,1:23:21.920
I have hard time believing that all of

1:23:19.579,1:23:24.409
this came out just one single mind I

1:23:21.920,1:23:27.559
think it was a group of people who

1:23:24.409,1:23:30.739
brainstormed two years to finally come

1:23:27.559,1:23:33.550
out with a design that can work well if

1:23:30.739,1:23:36.409
you look at the history of inventions

1:23:33.550,1:23:39.829
dealing with digital cash you start with

1:23:36.409,1:23:42.889
David Tom who had cash and then you get

1:23:39.829,1:23:44.900
your way die and you get to add them

1:23:42.889,1:23:49.579
back who try to find a way to prevent

1:23:44.900,1:23:52.670
spam by creating hashing cycles from

1:23:49.579,1:23:53.440
your processor and then you get to how

1:23:52.670,1:23:56.800
finis

1:23:53.440,1:23:59.480
and also an X evoke who had bit golden

1:23:56.800,1:24:02.000
ego Lewis the last alastu workable

1:23:59.480,1:24:04.670
iteration that happened before VidCon it

1:24:02.000,1:24:09.679
was in 2005 I think I think Bitcoin

1:24:04.670,1:24:12.170
happened after equal stop right but ego

1:24:09.679,1:24:14.389
had the central points of failure yes

1:24:12.170,1:24:16.250
yes yes most of them have the central

1:24:14.389,1:24:17.869
point of failure this did I am going to

1:24:16.250,1:24:20.510
expert on this thing because there are

1:24:17.869,1:24:23.840
lots of people who studied this thing a

1:24:20.510,1:24:27.199
lot but what I seem to understand that

1:24:23.840,1:24:31.250
the crucial difference between red coin

1:24:27.199,1:24:36.579
and all other previous iterations that

1:24:31.250,1:24:39.440
happened is this this closed loop of

1:24:36.579,1:24:43.039
incentive structures that is self

1:24:39.440,1:24:45.739
sufficient that grows on its own because

1:24:43.039,1:24:48.619
if you look at the design Satoshi did

1:24:45.739,1:24:51.349
not invent any of the primitives all the

1:24:48.619,1:24:53.150
primitives are already there many of the

1:24:51.349,1:24:55.190
crucial primitives like the proof of

1:24:53.150,1:24:58.010
work like the blockchain marshal trees

1:24:55.190,1:25:00.980
cryptographic hashes digital signatures

1:24:58.010,1:25:03.020
all these things exist for 20 years so

1:25:00.980,1:25:05.960
so - she didn't invent any of this

1:25:03.020,1:25:08.750
what you did is combining all these

1:25:05.960,1:25:11.780
primitives in such a way that you have

1:25:08.750,1:25:14.449
an incentive structure which completes a

1:25:11.780,1:25:17.570
loop on its it's a loop on itself and

1:25:14.449,1:25:20.329
because it completes this loop on itself

1:25:17.570,1:25:22.670
it has this self-sustaining this

1:25:20.329,1:25:25.869
periodic growth almost like as a

1:25:22.670,1:25:28.670
biological form and it grows on its own

1:25:25.869,1:25:29.300
so that was the crucial key point of

1:25:28.670,1:25:31.429
butuan

1:25:29.300,1:25:36.199
none of the previous iteration had this

1:25:31.429,1:25:39.170
thing so yeah that's it that was a very

1:25:36.199,1:25:41.780
nice description Raj I feel like I

1:25:39.170,1:25:43.760
couldn't have said it any better than

1:25:41.780,1:25:47.320
you did and that comparison where the

1:25:43.760,1:25:51.349
biological being actually blew my mind

1:25:47.320,1:25:55.159
yeah this is another thing that blew my

1:25:51.349,1:25:56.840
mind in in I think third or fourth month

1:25:55.159,1:25:58.309
of my Bitcoin study when I finally

1:25:56.840,1:26:01.880
understood that this is a biological

1:25:58.309,1:26:04.610
thing the reason I it blew my mind

1:26:01.880,1:26:08.329
because two years before that I read

1:26:04.610,1:26:11.750
Richard Dawkins selfish gene and in that

1:26:08.329,1:26:15.349
book and the last chapter he Richard

1:26:11.750,1:26:19.520
Dawkins talks about ideas how ideas are

1:26:15.349,1:26:22.400
very similar to genes and ideas spread

1:26:19.520,1:26:25.610
among the society through minds to minds

1:26:22.400,1:26:28.969
just like genes spread among the species

1:26:25.610,1:26:31.730
and the ideas which are sustainable

1:26:28.969,1:26:35.030
which which survives are the one that

1:26:31.730,1:26:37.250
ideas that moves the society so it's

1:26:35.030,1:26:39.860
like a biological evolution that I the

1:26:37.250,1:26:42.139
only idea that gets morphed into the

1:26:39.860,1:26:45.349
society at the idea which is sustainable

1:26:42.139,1:26:47.420
on its on its own but we have all these

1:26:45.349,1:26:49.280
different kinds of iterations random

1:26:47.420,1:26:50.900
iterations of ideas just like we have

1:26:49.280,1:26:54.079
all this different kind of random

1:26:50.900,1:26:56.119
iterations in genes so mutations happens

1:26:54.079,1:26:59.150
in genes but all mutations doesn't stay

1:26:56.119,1:27:02.780
the only mutations stays which makes the

1:26:59.150,1:27:04.699
species better as a whole so the same

1:27:02.780,1:27:05.780
kind of thing he extended that and that

1:27:04.699,1:27:08.869
was fascinating to me

1:27:05.780,1:27:10.639
and this clicked two years later when I

1:27:08.869,1:27:13.550
first understood Bitcoin as a biological

1:27:10.639,1:27:16.849
organism and this blew my mind and I

1:27:13.550,1:27:19.610
thought this is exactly working like a

1:27:16.849,1:27:22.969
virus it's like an idea virus spreading

1:27:19.610,1:27:24.770
in the world and it's going and it has

1:27:22.969,1:27:27.050
all the characteristics of virus growth

1:27:24.770,1:27:29.179
it's growing exponentially

1:27:27.050,1:27:31.520
it's growing through waves of adoptions

1:27:29.179,1:27:33.199
and it just keeps on going and going and

1:27:31.520,1:27:35.780
going and going because it has this

1:27:33.199,1:27:38.599
self-fulfilling incentive structural

1:27:35.780,1:27:41.270
loop in in billions in in its design and

1:27:38.599,1:27:42.500
so yeah it is very much like a

1:27:41.270,1:27:44.989
biological or

1:27:42.500,1:27:48.770
it's very much like an idea virus that

1:27:44.989,1:27:51.590
grows through the society and I couldn't

1:27:48.770,1:27:54.080
even go a little bit farther and I think

1:27:51.590,1:27:56.690
I extend it like it's almost like the

1:27:54.080,1:27:59.360
t-virus have you send resident evil

1:27:56.690,1:28:01.190
so English in resident evil you have

1:27:59.360,1:28:03.410
this deep concept of the virus but the

1:28:01.190,1:28:05.720
virus is like a virus that when you get

1:28:03.410,1:28:07.489
affected you become a zombie so the next

1:28:05.720,1:28:09.680
thing you want to do after becoming

1:28:07.489,1:28:11.570
zombie is bite other people because the

1:28:09.680,1:28:13.520
t-virus wants to spread to other people

1:28:11.570,1:28:16.130
so this is the same thing exactly

1:28:13.520,1:28:17.989
happens here if you if you are into

1:28:16.130,1:28:19.820
Bitcoin the next thing you want to do is

1:28:17.989,1:28:21.560
tell people about Bitcoin and you want

1:28:19.820,1:28:25.460
to spread this idea from one mind to

1:28:21.560,1:28:28.100
another you almost have your inherent

1:28:25.460,1:28:31.160
need of doing that and that is so weird

1:28:28.100,1:28:34.610
and and that is exactly like a idea

1:28:31.160,1:28:37.340
virus work were you able to be an

1:28:34.610,1:28:39.739
advocate of Bitcoin to your peers your

1:28:37.340,1:28:43.760
families your friends ha ha that's what

1:28:39.739,1:28:48.110
I've been trying to do for last 7 or 8

1:28:43.760,1:28:49.850
months almost IIIi think of it almost

1:28:48.110,1:28:52.580
like a exercise it's a really difficult

1:28:49.850,1:28:55.310
thing to do it's it's amazingly

1:28:52.580,1:28:58.430
difficult to explain people to explain

1:28:55.310,1:29:01.360
Bitcoin to people so what I have been

1:28:58.430,1:29:04.670
trying to do is I have been catching

1:29:01.360,1:29:06.980
students in universities and trying to

1:29:04.670,1:29:11.510
have conversations with them on Bitcoin

1:29:06.980,1:29:14.900
and to my surprise I have successfully

1:29:11.510,1:29:17.630
in rocktron netted some people into this

1:29:14.900,1:29:19.820
Bitcoin zombie and I have this group of

1:29:17.630,1:29:24.350
people right now working in my local

1:29:19.820,1:29:26.660
universities who are who are amazingly

1:29:24.350,1:29:30.050
fascinated by this idea they just needed

1:29:26.660,1:29:32.000
the click to happen and the Clint is

1:29:30.050,1:29:34.670
very difficult because the click happens

1:29:32.000,1:29:36.560
after after a long period of

1:29:34.670,1:29:38.420
exploitation it just doesn't happen

1:29:36.560,1:29:40.430
immediately just because you see Bitcoin

1:29:38.420,1:29:42.500
doesn't it doesn't immediately clicks on

1:29:40.430,1:29:44.630
your head it happens when you start

1:29:42.500,1:29:48.230
exploring and exploring and exploring so

1:29:44.630,1:29:49.929
the part of our doctrine aiding other

1:29:48.230,1:29:54.649
Bitcoin users is

1:29:49.929,1:29:57.800
the key is to find the food in mind the

1:29:54.649,1:30:01.249
potent mind who is a mind which has all

1:29:57.800,1:30:04.039
the relevant ideas in place and all you

1:30:01.249,1:30:05.869
need to do is connect them together once

1:30:04.039,1:30:08.269
you connect them together it just clicks

1:30:05.869,1:30:09.829
in them and then they will just explore

1:30:08.269,1:30:11.570
on their own they will learn on their

1:30:09.829,1:30:14.119
own they will scout on their own they

1:30:11.570,1:30:15.829
will go to extent that you have just

1:30:14.119,1:30:17.599
done in order to understand this thing

1:30:15.829,1:30:19.789
so that they can understand it better

1:30:17.599,1:30:22.010
you cannot explain people to bitcoins

1:30:19.789,1:30:25.760
they have to understand it on their own

1:30:22.010,1:30:27.829
what you can do is put the dots in their

1:30:25.760,1:30:32.209
head and then just connect it so it

1:30:27.829,1:30:34.789
clicks okay so that sounds a little

1:30:32.209,1:30:37.639
successful on your side you managed to

1:30:34.789,1:30:39.889
convince some university students that

1:30:37.639,1:30:42.229
it's not not in a large enough scale it

1:30:39.889,1:30:45.469
is just two or three people I am

1:30:42.229,1:30:48.139
planning to build build it up in scale

1:30:45.469,1:30:50.209
so that I can have a local group of

1:30:48.139,1:30:51.800
bitcoiners in local universities so we

1:30:50.209,1:30:53.689
can have all these kinds of meters

1:30:51.800,1:30:55.639
discussions and hackathons and maybe

1:30:53.689,1:30:59.780
build cool stuffs on it so I am in the

1:30:55.639,1:31:03.199
process of it I am just when I started I

1:30:59.780,1:31:06.859
was like a the lone wolf and there was

1:31:03.199,1:31:08.839
no one and when I when I started

1:31:06.859,1:31:11.449
thinking about making Bitcoin businesses

1:31:08.839,1:31:13.789
Bitcoin only businesses on in India the

1:31:11.449,1:31:16.249
first biggest difficulty I faced is like

1:31:13.789,1:31:18.109
there are no bitcoins so I kind of had

1:31:16.249,1:31:19.639
to make Bitcoin as out of thin air so

1:31:18.109,1:31:22.280
that's what I've been doing for last two

1:31:19.639,1:31:24.229
three last seven eight months and I got

1:31:22.280,1:31:27.260
like two three people who I have

1:31:24.229,1:31:29.089
successfully able to convert and they

1:31:27.260,1:31:31.550
are like right now in the process of

1:31:29.089,1:31:33.889
this transition this process of studying

1:31:31.550,1:31:35.719
and this process of exploration and I am

1:31:33.889,1:31:40.939
planning to build it up in scale and see

1:31:35.719,1:31:44.239
how it goes from there okay but have you

1:31:40.939,1:31:46.909
also educated yourself to code and be

1:31:44.239,1:31:50.749
able to develop applications for Bitcoin

1:31:46.909,1:31:56.379
like wallet yeah yeah I have done that I

1:31:50.749,1:31:59.479
have been doing that but for the first

1:31:56.379,1:32:01.510
first one year of my study or what was

1:31:59.479,1:32:03.820
what seemed important is

1:32:01.510,1:32:06.190
should learn how to code I should learn

1:32:03.820,1:32:08.559
how the cryptographic primitives that

1:32:06.190,1:32:10.119
was the basic with basic understanding I

1:32:08.559,1:32:13.119
should have in order to work on the

1:32:10.119,1:32:16.150
system so I taught myself how to code

1:32:13.119,1:32:18.519
but I am not at that level where I can

1:32:16.150,1:32:21.699
cook a full-functioning wallet

1:32:18.519,1:32:23.949
software's so I have to I have a try I

1:32:21.699,1:32:26.380
have tried my hand in many hobby

1:32:23.949,1:32:30.280
projects but it's not nothing in a

1:32:26.380,1:32:33.670
deployable way but the more I am going

1:32:30.280,1:32:36.489
towards and I am thinking like I I don't

1:32:33.670,1:32:38.739
want to be a full-time developers

1:32:36.489,1:32:41.340
developing things on Bitcoin I just

1:32:38.739,1:32:44.650
happen to know people who can do that I

1:32:41.340,1:32:46.480
should be able to motivate them to do

1:32:44.650,1:32:49.059
this thing because they can do this job

1:32:46.480,1:32:51.190
better than me so I should not be

1:32:49.059,1:32:52.989
directly writing codes on bitcoins I

1:32:51.190,1:32:54.789
should figure to find out people who can

1:32:52.989,1:32:57.190
do that thing better than me and I

1:32:54.789,1:32:58.809
should I should make them realize why

1:32:57.190,1:33:01.059
why that's the best thing that they can

1:32:58.809,1:33:02.860
do with the free time so that's what I

1:33:01.059,1:33:06.909
have been trying to that's what that's

1:33:02.860,1:33:09.250
what I've been going right now so what

1:33:06.909,1:33:11.289
is your plan maybe in the next few years

1:33:09.250,1:33:13.570
are you trying to build a large

1:33:11.289,1:33:16.210
community and then what develop

1:33:13.570,1:33:20.260
businesses surrounding Bitcoin educate

1:33:16.210,1:33:23.739
the minds of the youth education is

1:33:20.260,1:33:26.829
obviously a big part of it Francis

1:33:23.739,1:33:29.170
Fourier very recently made a post in

1:33:26.829,1:33:31.269
Twitter which I completely agree with we

1:33:29.170,1:33:35.710
said like the way to make a cyberpunk

1:33:31.269,1:33:38.769
business is it is don't go for a product

1:33:35.710,1:33:40.750
at first go for a network of motivated

1:33:38.769,1:33:43.780
and resourceful people what you need

1:33:40.750,1:33:46.510
first is a network of motivated and

1:33:43.780,1:33:48.400
resourceful people who are investing

1:33:46.510,1:33:50.650
their mental capabilities their mental

1:33:48.400,1:33:53.199
time and their free energy into

1:33:50.650,1:33:55.719
understanding as seemingly complex stuff

1:33:53.199,1:33:57.099
once you have that what you can do you

1:33:55.719,1:33:59.320
can make all sorts of different

1:33:57.099,1:34:01.719
structures with this group of people you

1:33:59.320,1:34:04.150
can meet academics room you can make a

1:34:01.719,1:34:05.949
club you can make a society you can make

1:34:04.150,1:34:07.329
a meet-up or you can make a business

1:34:05.949,1:34:09.099
where you can build where you are

1:34:07.329,1:34:12.219
building Bitcoin infrastructure products

1:34:09.099,1:34:13.820
like models like full nodes or hardware

1:34:12.219,1:34:15.889
or hardware wallets

1:34:13.820,1:34:18.170
or all these kind of stuffs and there is

1:34:15.889,1:34:20.060
a very big lacking of this kind of

1:34:18.170,1:34:23.270
infrastructures in India we just don't

1:34:20.060,1:34:25.880
have it here and the problem is like if

1:34:23.270,1:34:29.030
you want to import this already super

1:34:25.880,1:34:31.340
cool model hardware's it's just so

1:34:29.030,1:34:34.340
costly that movie most of the people

1:34:31.340,1:34:36.440
can't just afford it so the reason we

1:34:34.340,1:34:40.070
can cannot well the people cannot afford

1:34:36.440,1:34:44.449
it because it's once there is this

1:34:40.070,1:34:47.000
corner currency conversion thing so $300

1:34:44.449,1:34:50.480
is pretty much a big amount for a net

1:34:47.000,1:34:53.360
for a regular Indian then over that

1:34:50.480,1:34:55.460
there is this input cost so the cost of

1:34:53.360,1:34:58.550
boost up so high that people can't just

1:34:55.460,1:35:01.099
use it so mostly what people are trying

1:34:58.550,1:35:03.280
to do in the small community of that we

1:35:01.099,1:35:05.750
have is people are trying to bring their

1:35:03.280,1:35:08.030
Bitcoin notes on their own so that's

1:35:05.750,1:35:10.639
much cheaper to do but it's much harder

1:35:08.030,1:35:12.290
to do but it's a really good exercise of

1:35:10.639,1:35:13.820
learning so that's what we are that's

1:35:12.290,1:35:15.500
what I have been doing and that's not

1:35:13.820,1:35:17.449
many of other people have been doing so

1:35:15.500,1:35:19.250
I think there is a very good school of

1:35:17.449,1:35:21.020
having Bitcoin only businesses and

1:35:19.250,1:35:21.560
infrastructure businesses to deploy in

1:35:21.020,1:35:24.050
India

1:35:21.560,1:35:26.989
that's one of my goal but I I do not

1:35:24.050,1:35:30.230
have a properly chopped out path how I

1:35:26.989,1:35:32.659
can reach there right now I have this

1:35:30.230,1:35:35.090
immediate goal of making as many

1:35:32.659,1:35:37.340
bitcoiners I I can out of these

1:35:35.090,1:35:39.920
university students because they seems

1:35:37.340,1:35:43.940
to be the most potent mind that I have

1:35:39.920,1:35:45.590
at my disposal I that I can use them or

1:35:43.940,1:35:49.460
I can help them to understand these

1:35:45.590,1:35:51.560
things and and they are almost always to

1:35:49.460,1:35:53.750
receive these ideas in a very

1:35:51.560,1:35:55.480
enthusiastic tone so that's a good thing

1:35:53.750,1:35:59.510
and that's what I am looking to build

1:35:55.480,1:36:02.389
next just out of curiosity what are

1:35:59.510,1:36:06.079
these students studying right now the

1:36:02.389,1:36:07.699
ones who got in there for all sorts of

1:36:06.079,1:36:09.290
different backgrounds there is no one

1:36:07.699,1:36:11.719
background that we have students from

1:36:09.290,1:36:14.239
economics mathematics engineering all

1:36:11.719,1:36:18.469
different forms of engineering political

1:36:14.239,1:36:19.639
science history law and all sorts of in

1:36:18.469,1:36:22.100
and out that that

1:36:19.639,1:36:23.659
that's one of my that's the one of the

1:36:22.100,1:36:24.980
crucial part of understanding Bitcoin

1:36:23.659,1:36:28.610
bitcoin is not a domain-specific

1:36:24.980,1:36:30.500
knowledge it's um it's a

1:36:28.610,1:36:33.050
multidisciplinary thing so you need

1:36:30.500,1:36:35.270
people from all different sorts of

1:36:33.050,1:36:37.580
disciplines to come together to explore

1:36:35.270,1:36:39.800
this one idea from all these different

1:36:37.580,1:36:42.500
viewpoints and the fascinating thing

1:36:39.800,1:36:45.560
about Bitcoin is everybody has a

1:36:42.500,1:36:47.030
perspective on this object from their

1:36:45.560,1:36:49.219
own different discipline

1:36:47.030,1:36:50.989
this hasn't never happened with any kind

1:36:49.219,1:36:53.210
of other technical innovations or

1:36:50.989,1:36:56.060
software's or any kind of other Sciences

1:36:53.210,1:36:57.590
so even people from history even people

1:36:56.060,1:36:59.989
from political sense and you can relate

1:36:57.590,1:37:01.310
it very easily we have all sorts of

1:36:59.989,1:37:05.179
people from all different lengths all

1:37:01.310,1:37:07.449
sorts right now what we have what I have

1:37:05.179,1:37:09.830
is like two three people's from

1:37:07.449,1:37:13.310
different engineering backgrounds and

1:37:09.830,1:37:17.690
different other majors like history and

1:37:13.310,1:37:20.900
I think that's all I have

1:37:17.690,1:37:22.489
we are still looking for a political

1:37:20.900,1:37:24.619
science student we don't have a

1:37:22.489,1:37:27.650
political science student as of yet but

1:37:24.619,1:37:29.960
yeah mostly engineers and mostly we are

1:37:27.650,1:37:32.449
we have another Ravi is a mathematician

1:37:29.960,1:37:35.920
where he is who are doing PhD in maths

1:37:32.449,1:37:38.690
so yeah that's it

1:37:35.920,1:37:40.400
sometimes I think that in order to get

1:37:38.690,1:37:42.560
into Bitcoin you need the proper

1:37:40.400,1:37:45.860
background or life experience which

1:37:42.560,1:37:52.360
motivates you as you don't just get into

1:37:45.860,1:37:57.469
it you somehow need it in your life yeah

1:37:52.360,1:37:59.630
in order to properly jump inside that

1:37:57.469,1:38:02.270
rabbit hole you need to have some kind

1:37:59.630,1:38:04.580
of questions that you have been looking

1:38:02.270,1:38:07.040
and so forth so it happened to me

1:38:04.580,1:38:08.960
because I was asking that question that

1:38:07.040,1:38:11.750
Bitcoin suddenly gives the answer for

1:38:08.960,1:38:16.400
and done that's why I just jump into it

1:38:11.750,1:38:18.619
and this happens to all people and it's

1:38:16.400,1:38:21.110
not necessarily to say that there is one

1:38:18.619,1:38:23.630
single background that you should come

1:38:21.110,1:38:27.679
from in order to have this kind of

1:38:23.630,1:38:28.700
jumping moment it can happen for any any

1:38:27.679,1:38:30.260
kind of background

1:38:28.700,1:38:32.990
it can happen from any different that

1:38:30.260,1:38:35.480
whatever your background is there is

1:38:32.990,1:38:37.250
some part of life there is some

1:38:35.480,1:38:39.260
questions of life there is some

1:38:37.250,1:38:42.380
questions of quest that you can

1:38:39.260,1:38:44.180
ultimately attach to this thing and then

1:38:42.380,1:38:46.520
ultimately can fall down into this

1:38:44.180,1:38:49.580
rabbit hole so that way that's the

1:38:46.520,1:38:51.800
reason why we see people from all sorts

1:38:49.580,1:38:54.380
of political domains from lipslide

1:38:51.800,1:38:55.940
Center from all sorts of religious

1:38:54.380,1:38:58.760
domain from all sorts of technical

1:38:55.940,1:39:01.790
domain from all sorts of artistic domain

1:38:58.760,1:39:04.400
are able to make themselves interested

1:39:01.790,1:39:06.380
in Bitcoin because Bitcoin can be seen

1:39:04.400,1:39:08.390
from all these different perspective

1:39:06.380,1:39:10.810
view points and everybody can have their

1:39:08.390,1:39:15.560
own story engraved in it

1:39:10.810,1:39:18.380
this is more of a joke but it can become

1:39:15.560,1:39:21.080
a serious question in a certain context

1:39:18.380,1:39:23.720
how would you explain to somebody who

1:39:21.080,1:39:25.910
maybe listens to this and has no idea

1:39:23.720,1:39:28.970
what we're talking about that bitcoin is

1:39:25.910,1:39:33.470
not some kind of religious cult and we

1:39:28.970,1:39:35.630
are undergoing this missionary quest in

1:39:33.470,1:39:40.070
order to spread the word about it and

1:39:35.630,1:39:43.160
make people use our made up money that

1:39:40.070,1:39:45.290
no government backs so the essential

1:39:43.160,1:39:51.320
question is why are we not a cult and

1:39:45.290,1:39:55.210
what sets us apart from one I think we

1:39:51.320,1:39:59.720
are good what's wrong with being a cult

1:39:55.210,1:40:02.690
okay I was about to argue that unlike

1:39:59.720,1:40:06.770
many calls which are mostly concerned

1:40:02.690,1:40:08.540
with spiritual Savior and redemption and

1:40:06.770,1:40:11.990
whatever concept they're trying to

1:40:08.540,1:40:15.830
promote this is more about economic

1:40:11.990,1:40:18.140
rationality than about anything else so

1:40:15.830,1:40:20.710
if it's about yourself interesting read

1:40:18.140,1:40:23.450
and money it makes a lot more sense than

1:40:20.710,1:40:25.370
it's much more practical than anything

1:40:23.450,1:40:28.010
else that deals with something

1:40:25.370,1:40:29.120
immaterial that we cannot perceive and

1:40:28.010,1:40:31.730
there's not tangible

1:40:29.120,1:40:35.210
even though bitcoin is not tangible in

1:40:31.730,1:40:36.860
itself it holds a certain value that we

1:40:35.210,1:40:41.930
agree on and that's something very

1:40:36.860,1:40:45.980
different from trying to establish nor

1:40:41.930,1:40:50.150
regarding what a perceived God is like

1:40:45.980,1:40:52.850
or trying to find ways to worship okay I

1:40:50.150,1:40:55.460
understood your point I can argue from a

1:40:52.850,1:40:58.280
completely opposite way because the cult

1:40:55.460,1:41:01.130
emerges because there is a belief system

1:40:58.280,1:41:04.340
the belief system happens because people

1:41:01.130,1:41:07.370
believe in certain ethical norms certain

1:41:04.340,1:41:09.530
ethical statements that they seems to be

1:41:07.370,1:41:11.660
following to be the truth and that's

1:41:09.530,1:41:13.400
completely subjective that begins on the

1:41:11.660,1:41:15.020
entire religion that depends on the

1:41:13.400,1:41:17.870
geography that depends on the culture

1:41:15.020,1:41:21.200
but cults always happens because we they

1:41:17.870,1:41:23.480
have a belief system and a belief system

1:41:21.200,1:41:26.980
emerges whenever there is a question of

1:41:23.480,1:41:32.570
ethics and I think Bitcoin exactly

1:41:26.980,1:41:34.520
exhibit one is exactly that and I think

1:41:32.570,1:41:37.010
ethics of money production who knows

1:41:34.520,1:41:40.400
that missus oh no sorry thought about I

1:41:37.010,1:41:42.230
I forgot if you know if you read the

1:41:40.400,1:41:46.400
ethics of money production I forgot to

1:41:42.230,1:41:48.920
wrote it and the Econo the question of

1:41:46.400,1:41:50.990
economics is basically answered is

1:41:48.920,1:41:53.330
through the question of ethics and

1:41:50.990,1:41:55.640
ethics and economics is very much

1:41:53.330,1:41:58.370
related to each other you cannot have a

1:41:55.640,1:42:01.070
sound economics without a sound ethical

1:41:58.370,1:42:03.050
ground so in order to have a sound

1:42:01.070,1:42:06.290
economics if you have need to have a

1:42:03.050,1:42:08.870
sound ethical ground the inherently that

1:42:06.290,1:42:10.640
means that the thing with which you were

1:42:08.870,1:42:13.760
built and trying to build the economics

1:42:10.640,1:42:16.750
has to have ethics engraved question of

1:42:13.760,1:42:20.150
ethics engraved into some form of it and

1:42:16.750,1:42:22.730
Bitcoin does engrave some form of ethics

1:42:20.150,1:42:25.520
into it you cannot inflate the supply of

1:42:22.730,1:42:28.370
Bitcoin that's a ethical stand so

1:42:25.520,1:42:30.980
whenever you have an ethical stand it

1:42:28.370,1:42:33.320
immediately there is no different

1:42:30.980,1:42:36.260
between a curtain you can describe curls

1:42:33.320,1:42:39.440
in lots of different ways in positive in

1:42:36.260,1:42:42.470
positive ways in negative ways but the

1:42:39.440,1:42:45.410
core concept of a cult is that it has to

1:42:42.470,1:42:48.410
have its one basic ethical statement and

1:42:45.410,1:42:50.890
become and because Bitcoin does have is

1:42:48.410,1:42:53.230
one basic ethical statement

1:42:50.890,1:42:56.500
don't think that you can argue that it's

1:42:53.230,1:42:58.480
not a cult it is a gun but what is that

1:42:56.500,1:43:02.890
ethical statement that you're speaking

1:42:58.480,1:43:08.230
of nobody should have the power to

1:43:02.890,1:43:10.570
manipulate money supply that's fair

1:43:08.230,1:43:13.000
that's the acknowledged statement you

1:43:10.570,1:43:15.670
think that's the only one involving it I

1:43:13.000,1:43:18.250
think no they didn't many many others

1:43:15.670,1:43:20.200
like there are ethical statements which

1:43:18.250,1:43:22.390
privacy data ethical statements with

1:43:20.200,1:43:24.580
sovereignty there are ethical statements

1:43:22.390,1:43:26.410
with free tapes free trades there are

1:43:24.580,1:43:32.440
ethical statements with free markets all

1:43:26.410,1:43:34.660
this comes all this builds up on this on

1:43:32.440,1:43:37.420
this basic ground I think the basic

1:43:34.660,1:43:40.270
ground is nobody should be the in the

1:43:37.420,1:43:42.820
position of power to control monetary

1:43:40.270,1:43:45.790
policy because if somebody does that's

1:43:42.820,1:43:48.490
unethical the reason that they control

1:43:45.790,1:43:51.640
the fact that they control is itself the

1:43:48.490,1:43:53.830
unethical part of that statement so the

1:43:51.640,1:43:55.750
basic building block of it though of

1:43:53.830,1:43:58.990
this free-market ethics that you can

1:43:55.750,1:44:01.690
build up on top of Brid coin is starts

1:43:58.990,1:44:04.060
from this fact that nobody should be in

1:44:01.690,1:44:06.880
the power of control monetary policy and

1:44:04.060,1:44:09.490
if you bill you that is a Attica Lee

1:44:06.880,1:44:15.580
correct statement to have then you have

1:44:09.490,1:44:17.590
a cut that makes sense if you look at it

1:44:15.580,1:44:19.600
from this point of view even though I

1:44:17.590,1:44:22.990
guess the Western understanding of

1:44:19.600,1:44:24.730
occult is slightly different and has to

1:44:22.990,1:44:27.070
deal with all sorts of crazy people

1:44:24.730,1:44:29.260
getting together and yeah that's just

1:44:27.070,1:44:32.830
how you define country you can define

1:44:29.260,1:44:36.100
the world cult in many images you can

1:44:32.830,1:44:38.440
have a bad image like all these crazy

1:44:36.100,1:44:41.110
people with black hairs and black nails

1:44:38.440,1:44:43.990
and all let you call that a cult or you

1:44:41.110,1:44:46.000
can call a cult in a very different

1:44:43.990,1:44:49.690
image it depends on how you are defining

1:44:46.000,1:44:53.380
the world but the essence of I guess the

1:44:49.690,1:44:56.080
essence of a cult is this like you need

1:44:53.380,1:44:58.020
to have a belief system you need to have

1:44:56.080,1:45:00.390
a belief system engraved in the

1:44:58.020,1:45:02.640
design of the cult every cult believes

1:45:00.390,1:45:05.520
some statement without there cannot be

1:45:02.640,1:45:09.240
any cult and if you have a belief system

1:45:05.520,1:45:11.310
that you inherently end up being in a in

1:45:09.240,1:45:15.480
a phenomena which is kind of like

1:45:11.310,1:45:18.000
religion and you see and you hear saying

1:45:15.480,1:45:20.730
this thing from other people who are not

1:45:18.000,1:45:22.680
exactly Bitcoin maximalism they think of

1:45:20.730,1:45:25.710
it called maximalism as kind of a

1:45:22.680,1:45:28.200
religion because maybe it is because

1:45:25.710,1:45:30.150
maybe it is because it has a belief

1:45:28.200,1:45:32.250
system engraved into it it has an

1:45:30.150,1:45:34.530
ethical point it has a ethical stand

1:45:32.250,1:45:37.110
over which you stand and make the

1:45:34.530,1:45:38.820
further progression of your societal

1:45:37.110,1:45:40.620
viewpoint that you build on top of it

1:45:38.820,1:45:42.600
like the free market that the privacy

1:45:40.620,1:45:46.170
like the use of sovereignty and all

1:45:42.600,1:45:48.570
these other things so it does kind of

1:45:46.170,1:45:51.060
make sense to agree with the argument

1:45:48.570,1:45:53.010
that this is a belief system and if this

1:45:51.060,1:45:56.040
is a belief system there is not much

1:45:53.010,1:46:01.110
difference between it and any other kind

1:45:56.040,1:46:04.440
of religion these can be actually the

1:46:01.110,1:46:06.330
foundations of an institutional cults

1:46:04.440,1:46:10.200
that we can establish so we don't pay

1:46:06.330,1:46:13.380
taxes anymore probably probably this can

1:46:10.200,1:46:17.280
be the cult of the next human evolution

1:46:13.380,1:46:20.180
and I don't know I don't know how it's

1:46:17.280,1:46:22.740
gonna play out but it seems to me that I

1:46:20.180,1:46:25.680
I don't I don't necessarily see it as a

1:46:22.740,1:46:28.530
bad thing so whenever I hear the word

1:46:25.680,1:46:30.210
cult in context of Bitcoin I happen to

1:46:28.530,1:46:32.550
agree with it but it doesn't necessarily

1:46:30.210,1:46:34.800
immediately strike a bad image in front

1:46:32.550,1:46:37.410
of us what strikes me that it's

1:46:34.800,1:46:40.650
unnecessarily it is a necessary feature

1:46:37.410,1:46:43.440
that Bitcoin needed to have in order to

1:46:40.650,1:46:47.060
do what it's supposed what it is aiming

1:46:43.440,1:46:49.650
to do it needed to have this ingrained

1:46:47.060,1:46:52.560
belief system in it because that's when

1:46:49.650,1:46:56.220
you hit individual mind

1:46:52.560,1:47:00.030
at the core heart of it if you cannot

1:46:56.220,1:47:00.960
hit at its belief system you cannot make

1:47:00.030,1:47:04.380
it a zombie virus

1:47:00.960,1:47:06.660
so the only way Bitcoin can succeed is

1:47:04.380,1:47:08.580
by making itself like a zombie virus and

1:47:06.660,1:47:11.520
the only way it can

1:47:08.580,1:47:14.130
itself as a zombie virus is by hitting

1:47:11.520,1:47:15.930
at the heart of the human psyche that is

1:47:14.130,1:47:18.350
the core belief system and I think

1:47:15.930,1:47:21.480
Bitcoin is in the process of doing that

1:47:18.350,1:47:24.630
that's interesting it's going to also be

1:47:21.480,1:47:27.840
fascinating to see how this plays out in

1:47:24.630,1:47:29.790
the coming years and what more adoption

1:47:27.840,1:47:32.010
how we are going to change the

1:47:29.790,1:47:35.460
narratives because objectively speaking

1:47:32.010,1:47:37.530
we can say that Bitcoin has has gone

1:47:35.460,1:47:41.000
through many phases of adoption and

1:47:37.530,1:47:45.150
different narratives that preceded and

1:47:41.000,1:47:47.780
facilitated this so it's going to be a

1:47:45.150,1:47:49.980
matter of how do you present this

1:47:47.780,1:47:54.750
protocol because essentially it's just

1:47:49.980,1:47:57.690
code to somebody who is willing to

1:47:54.750,1:48:02.000
embrace it but is not at the edge of the

1:47:57.690,1:48:06.120
society is just a normal person you know

1:48:02.000,1:48:07.710
we need to we will see narrative changes

1:48:06.120,1:48:10.440
narrative changes happens all the time

1:48:07.710,1:48:12.720
but what what I think we need to be

1:48:10.440,1:48:15.660
careful about this changes of narrative

1:48:12.720,1:48:19.380
that this Nell the the core narrative of

1:48:15.660,1:48:22.050
Bitcoin should not be distorted the core

1:48:19.380,1:48:24.510
narrative was was this one single

1:48:22.050,1:48:27.300
ethical statement nobody should have the

1:48:24.510,1:48:29.820
power to manipulate economic policy the

1:48:27.300,1:48:32.250
money college monetary policies so if

1:48:29.820,1:48:34.770
this narrative gets distorted in some

1:48:32.250,1:48:36.540
way we can have all these higher kinds

1:48:34.770,1:48:38.670
of narratives depending on the

1:48:36.540,1:48:40.950
suitability of our environment depending

1:48:38.670,1:48:43.020
on how the network is behaving depending

1:48:40.950,1:48:48.990
on how the adoptions is coming but we

1:48:43.020,1:48:51.900
should not be be willing to do should

1:48:48.990,1:48:54.840
not be willing to forfeit this very

1:48:51.900,1:48:58.650
basic fundamental narrative because

1:48:54.840,1:49:01.380
that's what makes Bitcoin take I guess

1:48:58.650,1:49:02.370
the biggest kind of attack vector that

1:49:01.380,1:49:06.480
you have on Bitcoin

1:49:02.370,1:49:09.150
is the fixed supply if you no longer

1:49:06.480,1:49:11.400
have that and people agree that you can

1:49:09.150,1:49:13.740
have an inflationary Bitcoin then that's

1:49:11.400,1:49:16.730
the end of it you don't have to take

1:49:13.740,1:49:16.730
down the mining

1:49:16.949,1:49:21.870
I don't remember where I read Bible I

1:49:19.320,1:49:24.900
was reading it somewhere that the the

1:49:21.870,1:49:28.020
biggest right decision that Satoshi took

1:49:24.900,1:49:30.719
was having a fixed supply cap because he

1:49:28.020,1:49:33.300
knew that the moment you make the supply

1:49:30.719,1:49:37.739
cap fluctuating the moment you have this

1:49:33.300,1:49:40.170
question of inflation that see that that

1:49:37.739,1:49:42.239
opens up a lot of political attack

1:49:40.170,1:49:44.790
vector because there is no right answer

1:49:42.239,1:49:47.340
for the right inflation there is no

1:49:44.790,1:49:49.980
right inflation so you can never

1:49:47.340,1:49:51.929
objectively determine that this should

1:49:49.980,1:49:53.489
be the right inflation you can see this

1:49:51.929,1:49:55.650
happening in the etherium right now they

1:49:53.489,1:49:57.030
they do not have a consensus on what

1:49:55.650,1:49:59.429
should be the right inflation because

1:49:57.030,1:50:01.320
you cannot have a concession concession

1:49:59.429,1:50:03.390
on right inflation because every

1:50:01.320,1:50:05.429
inflation is right inflation so the

1:50:03.390,1:50:07.440
moment you start making this question

1:50:05.429,1:50:09.330
you open yourself to this political at

1:50:07.440,1:50:10.980
elevator where you can never reach a

1:50:09.330,1:50:14.040
consensus and that's why I suppose she

1:50:10.980,1:50:16.170
fix the cap at 21 million because he

1:50:14.040,1:50:17.730
knew that this question was an attack

1:50:16.170,1:50:19.830
vector once you start having this

1:50:17.730,1:50:22.380
question of whether to increase the cap

1:50:19.830,1:50:24.030
or not that opens up the attack of

1:50:22.380,1:50:27.960
controlling the monetary policy because

1:50:24.030,1:50:30.840
there is no one to answer for it I agree

1:50:27.960,1:50:33.719
and that's the most important feature of

1:50:30.840,1:50:37.050
Bitcoin we like to say that it's going

1:50:33.719,1:50:39.420
to lead to deflation and a situation

1:50:37.050,1:50:42.719
where the demand is higher than the

1:50:39.420,1:50:47.520
supply which means an appreciation in

1:50:42.719,1:50:49.920
terms of fiat money yes and the way it's

1:50:47.520,1:50:51.870
going to play out during the various ha

1:50:49.920,1:50:55.110
things that we have throughout years

1:50:51.870,1:50:59.280
that's also something interesting to

1:50:55.110,1:51:02.880
witness yeah it's interesting because we

1:50:59.280,1:51:05.160
never had a deflationary money supply so

1:51:02.880,1:51:07.770
it's not deflationary it's negative

1:51:05.160,1:51:09.540
inflation so the inflation is there the

1:51:07.770,1:51:12.030
inflation just decreases with time and

1:51:09.540,1:51:14.340
at some point it just stops so it's not

1:51:12.030,1:51:17.370
actually executive inflationary is its

1:51:14.340,1:51:18.989
fixed supply money money system so we

1:51:17.370,1:51:22.980
never actually had this week supply

1:51:18.989,1:51:25.980
money system and we don't exactly know

1:51:22.980,1:51:28.500
how it's gonna play out and we can

1:51:25.980,1:51:31.260
theorize lots of crazy theories we can

1:51:28.500,1:51:33.000
theorize how

1:51:31.260,1:51:36.180
but this is the biggest problem of

1:51:33.000,1:51:38.760
bitcoins we do not have a mathematical

1:51:36.180,1:51:41.880
theory that proves a mathematical

1:51:38.760,1:51:44.460
derivation that proves that this is why

1:51:41.880,1:51:47.940
Bitcoin will work or this is why bitcoin

1:51:44.460,1:51:51.060
will not work so this is the curious

1:51:47.940,1:51:53.010
part of bitcoins and I think somewhere I

1:51:51.060,1:51:55.230
don't remember that bitcoin is this

1:51:53.010,1:51:58.070
weird thing that doesn't work in theory

1:51:55.230,1:52:01.560
but it only works in practice and

1:51:58.070,1:52:04.530
because of this nature of Bitcoin we

1:52:01.560,1:52:06.840
cannot predict what it will do because

1:52:04.530,1:52:09.090
we don't simply have a derivation of why

1:52:06.840,1:52:11.940
it's working we just know it's working

1:52:09.090,1:52:13.650
we kind of trying to guess how it's

1:52:11.940,1:52:15.450
working while it's working and we have

1:52:13.650,1:52:17.610
all these different kind of theories but

1:52:15.450,1:52:18.870
we do not which we haven't been able to

1:52:17.610,1:52:21.420
describe it

1:52:18.870,1:52:23.370
in a mathematical formal language or why

1:52:21.420,1:52:27.030
this will work or why this will never

1:52:23.370,1:52:30.150
work so that's a thing that is remaining

1:52:27.030,1:52:31.800
for us and I I don't think we will ever

1:52:30.150,1:52:34.530
be able to describe it in a formal

1:52:31.800,1:52:36.900
mathematical language what we will be

1:52:34.530,1:52:40.590
able to do is we will be able to observe

1:52:36.900,1:52:42.540
and formulate our rational about why

1:52:40.590,1:52:44.100
this system is working how the system is

1:52:42.540,1:52:45.840
working and what kind of system what

1:52:44.100,1:52:49.800
kind of effect this system is having in

1:52:45.840,1:52:52.830
our society that's all we can do you're

1:52:49.800,1:52:55.320
right and I guess this is where that

1:52:52.830,1:53:00.240
part about possibly becoming occult

1:52:55.320,1:53:03.960
comes into play yes we are going to

1:53:00.240,1:53:07.950
really really be confident into the

1:53:03.960,1:53:11.520
qualities of Bitcoin and trust that it

1:53:07.950,1:53:14.100
works and project this kind of trust

1:53:11.520,1:53:16.200
into others and even though it's a

1:53:14.100,1:53:19.980
trustless protocol that anybody can

1:53:16.200,1:53:23.130
audit even I can go into github and

1:53:19.980,1:53:26.670
check the code we have to actually trust

1:53:23.130,1:53:28.710
that the people who are improving it are

1:53:26.670,1:53:31.260
not going to create some kind of

1:53:28.710,1:53:33.420
inflation bug or they're not going to

1:53:31.260,1:53:36.330
destroy the protocol and there have been

1:53:33.420,1:53:39.720
precedents of contentious attacks words

1:53:36.330,1:53:43.390
Bitcoin and what it essentially is as a

1:53:39.720,1:53:45.730
decentralized network of computers they

1:53:43.390,1:53:49.360
try to impose a larger block size which

1:53:45.730,1:53:52.720
would effectively increase or decrease

1:53:49.360,1:53:57.640
the amount of computers that are able to

1:53:52.720,1:53:59.380
synchronize true so see so the system is

1:53:57.640,1:54:01.600
rigged with all sorts of trade-offs

1:53:59.380,1:54:03.790
there are trade-offs here and there and

1:54:01.600,1:54:06.160
III don't think there is one single

1:54:03.790,1:54:07.630
parameter that you can change in Bitcoin

1:54:06.160,1:54:10.090
that doesn't come with the trade-off

1:54:07.630,1:54:12.370
so the trade-offs are everywhere and

1:54:10.090,1:54:16.000
this is where the narrative comes in the

1:54:12.370,1:54:17.470
narrative says the the narrative that

1:54:16.000,1:54:19.780
you subscribe to the narrative that

1:54:17.470,1:54:21.910
makes it a cult that that narrative says

1:54:19.780,1:54:23.530
what kind of trade-offs are acceptable

1:54:21.910,1:54:26.200
and what kind of trade-offs are not

1:54:23.530,1:54:28.450
acceptable so that's how the community

1:54:26.200,1:54:30.730
as a whole should be making decisions

1:54:28.450,1:54:33.190
and that's the reason why should why we

1:54:30.730,1:54:35.710
should never dilute the core narrative

1:54:33.190,1:54:37.750
of this protocol because if we dilute

1:54:35.710,1:54:40.690
the core narrative of this protocol we

1:54:37.750,1:54:42.670
don't have the direction of deciding on

1:54:40.690,1:54:45.970
these trade-offs so that is a very

1:54:42.670,1:54:49.540
crucial point and also this Trust has to

1:54:45.970,1:54:53.620
happen this Trust has to happen like it

1:54:49.540,1:54:56.560
happened for gold see in a in societies

1:54:53.620,1:54:59.350
where people buy gold jewelry's they

1:54:56.560,1:55:01.540
don't they don't trust the gold money

1:54:59.350,1:55:03.130
supply they don't know where the money

1:55:01.540,1:55:06.910
supply is coming from they don't know

1:55:03.130,1:55:08.650
who who is holding how much amount of

1:55:06.910,1:55:12.220
gold they don't even know what's the

1:55:08.650,1:55:15.130
price of food so but they inherently

1:55:12.220,1:55:16.690
trust the asset in their gut because

1:55:15.130,1:55:19.750
they have been doing that for the last

1:55:16.690,1:55:23.620
thousands of years and it at every time

1:55:19.750,1:55:26.380
and it has been proved to work in a

1:55:23.620,1:55:29.860
timeless fan the timeless manner the

1:55:26.380,1:55:32.560
same way you cannot cannot find out a

1:55:29.860,1:55:34.960
mathematical derivation of why bitcoin

1:55:32.560,1:55:36.400
will always work the same the same thing

1:55:34.960,1:55:38.830
happens in good you cannot have a

1:55:36.400,1:55:40.630
mathematical formula derivation of why

1:55:38.830,1:55:42.640
gold should always show their value

1:55:40.630,1:55:44.830
because you can have all sorts of

1:55:42.640,1:55:46.750
situations where gold doesn't story's

1:55:44.830,1:55:48.820
value for example you keep by a s4 and

1:55:46.750,1:55:52.060
made out of gold so then it doesn't

1:55:48.820,1:55:54.310
store its value anymore or you make some

1:55:52.060,1:55:55.730
weird crazy technical innovations where

1:55:54.310,1:55:57.170
you change any

1:55:55.730,1:55:59.810
turns into Gold's or something like that

1:55:57.170,1:56:01.820
it doesn't store its value anyone so you

1:55:59.810,1:56:04.100
also don't have this normative

1:56:01.820,1:56:06.200
derivations in gold but still people

1:56:04.100,1:56:08.120
instinctively believe in the properties

1:56:06.200,1:56:10.670
of cool in its value transferring

1:56:08.120,1:56:13.010
mechanisms of time and they don't have

1:56:10.670,1:56:15.410
to think about it it's engraved in their

1:56:13.010,1:56:16.910
sigh in deciding their subconscious they

1:56:15.410,1:56:19.040
just knew in the gut that it's a good

1:56:16.910,1:56:21.080
idea and that kind of thing will save a

1:56:19.040,1:56:23.090
lot in Bitcoin as the procreation and

1:56:21.080,1:56:27.260
adoption goals and it feels just a

1:56:23.090,1:56:29.540
matter of I it is it's the it is a can't

1:56:27.260,1:56:33.800
alone effect so I think it is a

1:56:29.540,1:56:38.270
cantilever no or something else in fact

1:56:33.800,1:56:41.390
is about money being sent first to the

1:56:38.270,1:56:43.220
bankers it's that one it's that one so

1:56:41.390,1:56:45.320
there is another effect I forgot his

1:56:43.220,1:56:48.500
name it says like the more I think

1:56:45.320,1:56:50.780
exists the higher the chance in future

1:56:48.500,1:56:57.710
it will exist what what's that effect I

1:56:50.780,1:56:59.780
don't affect I don't know it's not

1:56:57.710,1:57:02.300
coming in my head right now it is an

1:56:59.780,1:57:04.100
effect like like that I happen so it's

1:57:02.300,1:57:06.590
the same thing so the more Bitcoin

1:57:04.100,1:57:08.930
exists the higher confidence people have

1:57:06.590,1:57:10.040
that Bitcoin will exist 10 years more so

1:57:08.930,1:57:11.660
in 20 years

1:57:10.040,1:57:14.239
higher confident people will have that

1:57:11.660,1:57:15.830
Bitcoin will exist 30 in 50 years higher

1:57:14.239,1:57:17.930
confident they will have that Bitcoin

1:57:15.830,1:57:20.450
will exist 15 year ago so this is how

1:57:17.930,1:57:22.610
confidence and counter confidence builds

1:57:20.450,1:57:25.610
up the god build builds of the

1:57:22.610,1:57:27.560
capability of society to have trust on a

1:57:25.610,1:57:28.910
particular kind of asset as a store of

1:57:27.560,1:57:32.150
value and that's how money getting

1:57:28.910,1:57:34.850
mediums emerges out of it so this kind

1:57:32.150,1:57:36.950
of thing will happen in Bitcoin and it

1:57:34.850,1:57:38.600
is very difficult to precisely figure

1:57:36.950,1:57:40.970
out or precisely try to predict what

1:57:38.600,1:57:43.520
exactly we will see what exactly how

1:57:40.970,1:57:46.880
will happen but yeah we kind of get a

1:57:43.520,1:57:49.940
sense we kind of judge a sense of where

1:57:46.880,1:57:52.510
this direction can go and yeah we just

1:57:49.940,1:57:52.510
have to wait and watch

1:57:52.840,1:57:57.050
I'm not sure if I have any more

1:57:55.190,1:57:58.040
questions for you this was a very

1:57:57.050,1:58:00.110
lengthy and

1:57:58.040,1:58:02.810
well structured discussion which somehow

1:58:00.110,1:58:06.350
came full circle we started from the

1:58:02.810,1:58:09.290
idea of gold in India and we returned to

1:58:06.350,1:58:12.110
it as a belief system

1:58:09.290,1:58:14.210
it was a traditional way of storing

1:58:12.110,1:58:17.360
value and then we discussed about how

1:58:14.210,1:58:19.550
gold in itself is a cult and what you

1:58:17.360,1:58:21.830
believe that it has value you're no

1:58:19.550,1:58:24.860
longer question it's my ability on the

1:58:21.830,1:58:27.470
market and this right there you know

1:58:24.860,1:58:30.680
that it has value and you're supposed to

1:58:27.470,1:58:32.750
either hold it or transact it or melt it

1:58:30.680,1:58:35.840
because people have been doing it for so

1:58:32.750,1:58:38.570
many centuries that you can no longer

1:58:35.840,1:58:42.590
track where it all started

1:58:38.570,1:58:44.810
you have no idea why it's golden the

1:58:42.590,1:58:46.910
question of why is not existing in this

1:58:44.810,1:58:48.770
kind of system so that's that's a

1:58:46.910,1:58:54.890
property of cults the question of why

1:58:48.770,1:58:58.070
doesn't exist exactly so thank you very

1:58:54.890,1:59:00.650
much for this interview it was very good

1:58:58.070,1:59:03.260
very insightful I didn't know what to

1:59:00.650,1:59:05.810
expect when we first started and even

1:59:03.260,1:59:08.480
though I guess the beginning was a bit

1:59:05.810,1:59:10.640
rough as I was a bit sleepy it's very

1:59:08.480,1:59:13.340
early in the morning here and we had to

1:59:10.640,1:59:18.020
adapt schedules we ended up having a

1:59:13.340,1:59:25.340
very good conversation which I look

1:59:18.020,1:59:27.290
forward to listening to it I remind

1:59:25.340,1:59:31.670
myself some ideas which you pass to me

1:59:27.290,1:59:34.760
of which I didn't think before yeah it

1:59:31.670,1:59:37.040
is fascinating every time I have

1:59:34.760,1:59:38.990
conversations on Bitcoin I seem to have

1:59:37.040,1:59:42.080
gather new ideas that I haven't thought

1:59:38.990,1:59:44.900
of before so there are many ideas that I

1:59:42.080,1:59:47.630
have said that just came to me right now

1:59:44.900,1:59:49.490
that haven't occurred to me before and

1:59:47.630,1:59:51.290
that's why I enjoy talking about Bitcoin

1:59:49.490,1:59:53.120
because it opens up in all sorts of

1:59:51.290,1:59:54.500
different ways that you can't just

1:59:53.120,1:59:56.510
expect what will happen where the

1:59:54.500,1:59:59.690
conversation and that's just fascinating

1:59:56.510,2:00:03.380
and so much enjoy yeah exactly that's

1:59:59.690,2:00:06.050
why I do this podcast not only that I

2:00:03.380,2:00:09.350
get to brag about it on Twitter but most

2:00:06.050,2:00:11.930
importantly I get to learn yeah true

2:00:09.350,2:00:14.270
otherwise there wouldn't have been an

2:00:11.930,2:00:17.180
efficient way for me to learn this ideas

2:00:14.270,2:00:21.350
and understand how it it works in India

2:00:17.180,2:00:25.490
and get a insider's view basically

2:00:21.350,2:00:27.290
yes I'm very grateful for this and I

2:00:25.490,2:00:29.270
guess I will publish this very fast

2:00:27.290,2:00:33.110
maybe by the end of the day it will be

2:00:29.270,2:00:33.800
online so we can share it thanks for

2:00:33.110,2:00:35.990
having me

2:00:33.800,2:00:38.180
if you have any closing statements or

2:00:35.990,2:00:40.040
maybe you want to say hello to anyone

2:00:38.180,2:00:42.580
who might be listening to this this is

2:00:40.040,2:00:42.580
your last chance

2:00:44.480,2:00:47.780
just for general statements taxes that's

2:00:47.390,2:00:50.320
it

2:00:47.780,2:00:53.780
what's wrong with you to do its taxes

2:00:50.320,2:00:55.130
okay have a nice rest of your day and

2:00:53.780,2:00:57.440
I'll talk to you later

2:00:55.130,2:00:59.300
yeah have a nice day - it has been

2:00:57.440,2:01:04.000
fascinating conversation thanks what

2:00:59.300,2:01:04.000
happened bye Roz bye