S2 E4: Rajarshi Maitra on Bitcoin in India and the cult status of BTC communities
On June 29th 2019 I’ve had the pleasure to interview Indian bitcoiner Rajarshi Maitra. I was curious to find out more about the state of BTC adoption in the world’s second most populous country, but I ended up discovering so much more.
At first, Rajarshi has revealed to me the long journey that he has gone through in order to reach his current self-taught coder and Bitcoin developer status. As a graduate in structural engineering who has been brought up in a communist-minded community, he has performed a gradual 180-degree turn towards the more anarchist and libertarian world of Bitcoin.
Throughout the interview you also get to find out more about some cultural relations between Indians and gold – and where Bitcoin may fit in this centuries-long story. Some rather practical matters regarding social structures and interpersonal contracts are also discussed in a way that makes it easier to understand why Satoshi’s invention can make a strong and positive impact.
By the end of the interview you will find a fascinating inquiry on the cult status of Bitcoin communities. Rajarshi comes up with a somewhat appalling explanation which no longer ostracizes the cult-like practices of some groups. He also argues that a degree of religiousness is required in order to spread the ideas and keep the fundamentals intact while spreading the narrative.
You may listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or the direct RSS feed. If you find it useful, please donate BTC to the address below. As usual, 50% of all donations will be shared with the guest or a charity of their choice.
Follow Rajarshi on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RajarshiMaitra
Automatic Transcript (Helps with SEO):
0:00:45.870,0:00:49.180 hello and welcome to the Bitcoin 0:00:48.340,0:00:52.930 takeover 0:00:49.180,0:00:56.140 I am Vlad and my guest today is Raj who 0:00:52.930,0:01:00.220 is also known as Rajesh you might draw 0:00:56.140,0:01:03.420 on Twitter and he is a prominent Indian 0:01:00.220,0:01:06.310 Bitcoin er and he likes to tell me that 0:01:03.420,0:01:09.250 daren't a lot of bitcoiners in India and 0:01:06.310,0:01:11.740 he is part of that very small community 0:01:09.250,0:01:15.790 which he has four men and he has become 0:01:11.740,0:01:18.970 a part of so it's very fascinating to 0:01:15.790,0:01:21.160 know more about the second most populous 0:01:18.970,0:01:25.210 country in the world and how it actually 0:01:21.160,0:01:27.040 goes with these innovations in the way 0:01:25.210,0:01:31.840 we perceive money and the way we 0:01:27.040,0:01:32.590 transact so hello Raj hey Vlad thanks 0:01:31.840,0:01:35.020 for having me 0:01:32.590,0:01:37.630 it's good to have you and I'm happy that 0:01:35.020,0:01:39.970 you told me that you want to join this 0:01:37.630,0:01:43.360 podcast after you have listened I think 0:01:39.970,0:01:49.060 it was the John Carvalho podcast that 0:01:43.360,0:01:52.180 you listened yeah yeah yeah so that was 0:01:49.060,0:01:54.970 the podcast that we posted in Twitter 0:01:52.180,0:01:57.070 and I was suggesting people to listen to 0:01:54.970,0:01:59.110 you because there there seems to be a 0:01:57.070,0:02:02.650 lot of great content but not enough 0:01:59.110,0:02:04.000 viewership so I thought like this is a 0:02:02.650,0:02:06.010 very important work that you are doing 0:02:04.000,0:02:08.229 there is interesting conversations that 0:02:06.010,0:02:10.269 are coming out of it and I am just going 0:02:08.229,0:02:12.940 to promote it as much as I can in small 0:02:10.269,0:02:15.700 little communities I have I'm very 0:02:12.940,0:02:24.160 grateful for that by the way and I'm 0:02:15.700,0:02:26.170 happy and opportunity to talk because 0:02:24.160,0:02:30.070 it's always fascinating to talk with 0:02:26.170,0:02:32.769 other people yeah sir I guess that's why 0:02:30.070,0:02:35.100 I'm doing this and I like giving the 0:02:32.769,0:02:38.890 chance to speak to people who otherwise 0:02:35.100,0:02:40.540 wouldn't get this opportunity because 0:02:38.890,0:02:42.730 you know this is a very large community 0:02:40.540,0:02:44.530 in Bitcoin and there are lots of people 0:02:42.730,0:02:47.350 with different backgrounds doing lots of 0:02:44.530,0:02:49.690 interesting stuff and usually if you 0:02:47.350,0:02:51.360 look at Bitcoin podcasts you're going to 0:02:49.690,0:02:54.300 see that 0:02:51.360,0:02:56.580 the shows tend to have the same guests 0:02:54.300,0:02:59.100 and you're going to have this situation 0:02:56.580,0:03:01.950 where you end up listening to a 0:02:59.100,0:03:04.110 different podcast but the same person 0:03:01.950,0:03:10.890 saying basically the same stuff 0:03:04.110,0:03:15.150 promoting their company and you know you 0:03:10.890,0:03:17.550 get PR mode in various places so to me 0:03:15.150,0:03:20.220 it's very interesting to interact with 0:03:17.550,0:03:22.890 people who have a different background 0:03:20.220,0:03:25.740 who maybe haven't spoken in other 0:03:22.890,0:03:29.490 podcasts and at the same time have 0:03:25.740,0:03:32.010 something very interesting to say and my 0:03:29.490,0:03:35.490 curiosity in regards to you and what you 0:03:32.010,0:03:41.490 do is how did you get into Bitcoin and 0:03:35.490,0:03:42.090 why what was maybe what what drove you 0:03:41.490,0:03:44.900 to it 0:03:42.090,0:03:47.550 was there like an ideological 0:03:44.900,0:03:49.830 predisposition or some kind of personal 0:03:47.550,0:03:51.930 values that made you think that this is 0:03:49.830,0:03:54.600 what you're looking for or was it just 0:03:51.930,0:03:57.420 pure curiosity which took you down the 0:03:54.600,0:04:02.360 rabbit hole and made you appropriate 0:03:57.420,0:04:05.499 certain certain ideological components 0:04:02.360,0:04:05.499 [Music] 0:04:05.600,0:04:10.850 it's a very interesting journey that I 0:04:08.100,0:04:14.130 had so there are lots of parts to it so 0:04:10.850,0:04:17.459 what happened is I stumbled upon Bitcoin 0:04:14.130,0:04:19.859 on October 2017 kind of like in the 0:04:17.459,0:04:21.330 accident way so if you didn't but that 0:04:19.859,0:04:25.830 was the time when the market was going 0:04:21.330,0:04:28.940 into his 2017 cycle and Bitcoin was all 0:04:25.830,0:04:31.590 over the news and I happen to have some 0:04:28.940,0:04:33.360 extra monies in my hand so I thought 0:04:31.590,0:04:37.440 like okay why not just put it and see 0:04:33.360,0:04:39.300 what happens and then I went up and I I 0:04:37.440,0:04:41.940 thought the first thing that I did was 0:04:39.300,0:04:43.470 some kind of crypto index fund so I have 0:04:41.940,0:04:46.260 spoiled my way through all the shit 0:04:43.470,0:04:49.530 wineries so the first thing that I 0:04:46.260,0:04:52.710 noticed was this that the thing that 0:04:49.530,0:04:55.140 worked out was this address okay this we 0:04:52.710,0:04:57.090 will do random long address and that's 0:04:55.140,0:04:59.880 me I haven't seen these things before so 0:04:57.090,0:05:02.350 what is this thing and so that's when I 0:04:59.880,0:05:04.780 started to go deeper but the store 0:05:02.350,0:05:07.240 goes a little bad because when I was 0:05:04.780,0:05:07.810 doing my master's in structural 0:05:07.240,0:05:09.940 engineering 0:05:07.810,0:05:12.880 I was quite quite fed up with the way 0:05:09.940,0:05:14.950 academics work I was like fed up with 0:05:12.880,0:05:16.690 the culture of academia and I was 0:05:14.950,0:05:18.580 totally frustrated that there is so much 0:05:16.690,0:05:21.550 lack of curiosity happening in this 0:05:18.580,0:05:24.070 academic field that I just wanted to 0:05:21.550,0:05:26.080 leave it but instead of leaving it what 0:05:24.070,0:05:28.450 I did is like okay if I am NOT being 0:05:26.080,0:05:30.970 able to study what I want to study so 0:05:28.450,0:05:34.480 why not study on my own so at that point 0:05:30.970,0:05:36.250 on 2016 I started studying the most 0:05:34.480,0:05:38.290 difficult subject that I could find that 0:05:36.250,0:05:39.910 was theoretical physics so I started 0:05:38.290,0:05:41.710 selling steel theoretical physics and I 0:05:39.910,0:05:43.990 did that for two years and that was a 0:05:41.710,0:05:46.480 fascinating journey and then I stumbled 0:05:43.990,0:05:50.160 upon Bitcoin so by that time I stumbled 0:05:46.480,0:05:53.560 upon bill and I already had this this 0:05:50.160,0:05:56.470 this curiosity drives to understand 0:05:53.560,0:05:58.240 complex thing and when I solve this 0:05:56.470,0:05:59.620 thing called click to orbit when I 0:05:58.240,0:06:02.050 didn't understood what's the difference 0:05:59.620,0:06:03.940 between them back then and it seemed 0:06:02.050,0:06:06.010 that it's pretty complex thing and I 0:06:03.940,0:06:08.020 thought ok I am done with physics let's 0:06:06.010,0:06:11.110 not let's just drive into another field 0:06:08.020,0:06:13.630 and see what happens and when I started 0:06:11.110,0:06:16.300 diving deep into it something very 0:06:13.630,0:06:18.910 fascinating occurred to me and which 0:06:16.300,0:06:21.700 goes back into another period of my time 0:06:18.910,0:06:23.410 when I was in my bachelor's so here I 0:06:21.700,0:06:26.380 think it's a very interesting school 0:06:23.410,0:06:28.030 when I was in my bachelor's I was in a 0:06:26.380,0:06:31.090 university which was very much 0:06:28.030,0:06:33.940 politically active in the sense that we 0:06:31.090,0:06:36.340 were organized rallies we organized all 0:06:33.940,0:06:38.530 the sorts of meetings we organized all 0:06:36.340,0:06:41.170 the sorts of political discussions 0:06:38.530,0:06:44.230 debates and cultures that were very 0:06:41.170,0:06:49.150 predominant in this sphere of academia 0:06:44.230,0:06:51.400 and the coolest thing is I am placed in 0:06:49.150,0:06:53.920 the Western Province of India called us 0:06:51.400,0:06:56.170 to enroll and this place this particular 0:06:53.920,0:06:59.110 geography has been dominated by 0:06:56.170,0:07:01.870 communist ideologies for like the last 0:06:59.110,0:07:05.610 40 years and we had a communist regime 0:07:01.870,0:07:09.610 for 37 years before it broke down so 0:07:05.610,0:07:11.680 these ideas of what when I started 0:07:09.610,0:07:13.770 joining into these discussions and 0:07:11.680,0:07:16.050 debates these ideas of common 0:07:13.770,0:07:19.259 thinking and communist romanticism was 0:07:16.050,0:07:22.080 very much ingrained into me in a social 0:07:19.259,0:07:24.300 and cultural way and later I figured out 0:07:22.080,0:07:26.280 after coming out of my small zone and 0:07:24.300,0:07:28.580 looking at the world that the idea of 0:07:26.280,0:07:32.849 communist communism is kind of like 0:07:28.580,0:07:36.210 treated in international global space as 0:07:32.849,0:07:37.770 almost as a form of terrorism or almost 0:07:36.210,0:07:39.300 as a phone call like a very humorous 0:07:37.770,0:07:41.909 thing that people don't want to talk 0:07:39.300,0:07:43.830 about but it was not a situation when I 0:07:41.909,0:07:45.659 was in my area it's still not the 0:07:43.830,0:07:48.120 situation in most part of the vehicle 0:07:45.659,0:07:50.370 because the ideas and romanticism of 0:07:48.120,0:07:53.220 communism was keeping much ingrained in 0:07:50.370,0:07:56.130 the literature is in the which meets and 0:07:53.220,0:07:59.069 in your songs and calling the stories so 0:07:56.130,0:08:02.490 there are a lot of people so people who 0:07:59.069,0:08:04.080 are communists and who think communism 0:08:02.490,0:08:07.080 still can work but I don't believe it 0:08:04.080,0:08:09.659 anyway but at some point I was also 0:08:07.080,0:08:12.599 subscribing to myself as a feminist and 0:08:09.659,0:08:15.599 by the end I passed out from my college 0:08:12.599,0:08:18.449 and when I was happy having done through 0:08:15.599,0:08:21.840 all these discussions and all these 0:08:18.449,0:08:24.060 debates of why communism failed and the 0:08:21.840,0:08:26.669 interesting part is make communists 0:08:24.060,0:08:28.590 started with a movement if you look it 0:08:26.669,0:08:30.330 up it's called the Naxalite movement of 0:08:28.590,0:08:31.889 questioning over a Western Province of 0:08:30.330,0:08:35.310 India mostly happened in paint all 0:08:31.889,0:08:37.709 regions and they went as a student 0:08:35.310,0:08:39.300 movement it was my University and many 0:08:37.709,0:08:42.029 other universities surrounding my 0:08:39.300,0:08:44.399 sittings when this movement actually 0:08:42.029,0:08:46.500 started its epicenter they were like 0:08:44.399,0:08:49.079 brilliant students who like dropped out 0:08:46.500,0:08:51.360 of college and picked up girls to disco 0:08:49.079,0:08:53.490 in the state or whatever it is and did 0:08:51.360,0:08:55.380 that create a huge amount of force and 0:08:53.490,0:08:58.829 ultimately they came into the democratic 0:08:55.380,0:09:00.930 power around 1978 they ruled West Bengal 0:08:58.829,0:09:05.279 and the Communist Party rule do a single 0:09:00.930,0:09:08.010 from 1978 to 2011 TV for the completely 0:09:05.279,0:09:10.079 collapse collapse to utter corruptions 0:09:08.010,0:09:13.680 and bureaucracies and so it was a 0:09:10.079,0:09:19.170 fascinating thing for me to see how a 0:09:13.680,0:09:21.570 certain how a certain very ideologically 0:09:19.170,0:09:23.279 motivated brilliant people take up arms 0:09:21.570,0:09:25.649 we were when they could have been 0:09:23.279,0:09:26.490 engineers doctors lawyers or whatever 0:09:25.649,0:09:28.950 but they too 0:09:26.490,0:09:31.410 to take up arms and on most of them died 0:09:28.950,0:09:34.649 for ideology that didn't seem to work 0:09:31.410,0:09:37.589 and that kind of worked me a lot that 0:09:34.649,0:09:40.910 why did this why did this thing didn't 0:09:37.589,0:09:44.370 work and I wanted to understand it and I 0:09:40.910,0:09:48.630 didn't started understanding it until I 0:09:44.370,0:09:51.270 stepped in Bitcoin and the moment I step 0:09:48.630,0:09:54.660 in Bitcoin within the first two day I 0:09:51.270,0:09:57.240 was kind of like swept away with the 0:09:54.660,0:09:59.550 event when I saw on the problem 0:09:57.240,0:10:02.370 statement that they are trying to solve 0:09:59.550,0:10:03.930 I didn't knew any with any clue how 0:10:02.370,0:10:04.950 they're solving it I didn't knew how 0:10:03.930,0:10:06.930 Bitcoin works 0:10:04.950,0:10:09.779 I didn't know how any of this shit works 0:10:06.930,0:10:12.209 but I saw the problem statement and that 0:10:09.779,0:10:14.790 problem statement hit me in my mind in a 0:10:12.209,0:10:17.640 very blunt way like this is the problem 0:10:14.790,0:10:20.130 statement I have been asking for all 0:10:17.640,0:10:22.890 these years this is the problem that is 0:10:20.130,0:10:25.260 related to why communism fall why a 0:10:22.890,0:10:28.380 central planning doesn't work and how 0:10:25.260,0:10:32.360 can you have analytics systems without a 0:10:28.380,0:10:36.120 central planning so so so the other the 0:10:32.360,0:10:39.390 width of the problem immediately blew my 0:10:36.120,0:10:41.339 mind and I was kind of like whoa this is 0:10:39.390,0:10:43.920 big I need to understand how this thing 0:10:41.339,0:10:46.529 works and that was the first step I took 0:10:43.920,0:10:49.260 at the entrance of the rabbit hole and 0:10:46.529,0:10:51.630 since it's been two years and I'm still 0:10:49.260,0:10:53.520 not out of it and I am the still going 0:10:51.630,0:10:55.770 further and further and further and I 0:10:53.520,0:10:58.050 think that was the drive that put me 0:10:55.770,0:11:01.170 into this quest of understanding Bitcoin 0:10:58.050,0:11:03.089 because I because I immediately made 0:11:01.170,0:11:06.360 that link because this is somehow 0:11:03.089,0:11:08.430 related to my very old question why 0:11:06.360,0:11:11.520 central planning of community structures 0:11:08.430,0:11:14.089 cannot work and if that cannot work what 0:11:11.520,0:11:16.560 else you can do without having a 0:11:14.089,0:11:19.260 self-imposed structure of state or 0:11:16.560,0:11:20.910 quality or any kind of hierarchy into 0:11:19.260,0:11:23.579 the society can this will the society 0:11:20.910,0:11:26.220 fall into chaos before Bitcoin I thought 0:11:23.579,0:11:27.990 it would the answer was yes to me if you 0:11:26.220,0:11:30.560 don't have a structure if you don't have 0:11:27.990,0:11:33.390 a hierarchy you cannot have order and 0:11:30.560,0:11:35.430 once I saw Bitcoin once I saw the rising 0:11:33.390,0:11:37.690 tensions problem and I understood the 0:11:35.430,0:11:39.430 problem statement and an idea 0:11:37.690,0:11:41.170 this is the exact same problem that you 0:11:39.430,0:11:43.120 were trying to solve I don't care if you 0:11:41.170,0:11:45.190 solve it or not but the fact that much I 0:11:43.120,0:11:47.440 could solve it his image and the fact 0:11:45.190,0:11:50.260 that you are a fucking computer protocol 0:11:47.440,0:11:53.080 having things to solve it is out of this 0:11:50.260,0:11:56.410 world so that's what got me into Bitcoin 0:11:53.080,0:11:58.780 you know that's very fascinating because 0:11:56.410,0:12:03.040 I'm also coming from a country which 0:11:58.780,0:12:06.100 used to be communist until 1989 and I 0:12:03.040,0:12:08.620 know all about this from my parents and 0:12:06.100,0:12:11.800 the way we were grown and indoctrinated 0:12:08.620,0:12:14.140 with the ideology and how they were they 0:12:11.800,0:12:17.560 still relate to power in a different way 0:12:14.140,0:12:20.080 and they have this kind of respectful 0:12:17.560,0:12:22.530 fear or whoever is more powerful than 0:12:20.080,0:12:26.770 they are and they have a different view 0:12:22.530,0:12:31.240 towards here are keys and power 0:12:26.770,0:12:33.610 structures so I know that whatever we 0:12:31.240,0:12:38.220 call communism in any part of the world 0:12:33.610,0:12:38.220 is actually a form of state capitalism 0:12:39.150,0:12:43.570 what was interesting was also while I 0:12:41.860,0:12:47.590 was having these discussions at the end 0:12:43.570,0:12:49.330 in my student community or most of us 0:12:47.590,0:12:50.560 people even they are left feeling right 0:12:49.330,0:12:52.540 leaning irrespective of the political 0:12:50.560,0:12:55.780 ideologies or irrespective of their 0:12:52.540,0:12:58.990 party or Association most of them seems 0:12:55.780,0:13:02.530 to understand this point that it's not 0:12:58.990,0:13:05.770 them it's not the person who is at the 0:13:02.530,0:13:09.280 top who is at fault who is at fault it's 0:13:05.770,0:13:13.150 a structure who is at fault so this idea 0:13:09.280,0:13:15.570 of anarchy was almost ingrained into in 0:13:13.150,0:13:17.890 a subconscious level in this part of the 0:13:15.570,0:13:20.470 communist regime of the world where 0:13:17.890,0:13:22.270 people inherently understood this came 0:13:20.470,0:13:24.850 of lot of iron in our debates and 0:13:22.270,0:13:28.690 discussion that is we should not be 0:13:24.850,0:13:30.190 fighting against a person or a party we 0:13:28.690,0:13:32.950 should be fighting against a structure 0:13:30.190,0:13:34.600 and people understood this problem that 0:13:32.950,0:13:36.190 it's the problem of the structure is not 0:13:34.600,0:13:38.440 the problem of the party or problem or 0:13:36.190,0:13:42.160 the leadership so you have to solve the 0:13:38.440,0:13:44.500 structure somehow and but there is no 0:13:42.160,0:13:46.750 way that you can have this kind of any 0:13:44.500,0:13:48.480 kind of perceivable or conceivable 0:13:46.750,0:13:50.640 meaningful solution of 0:13:48.480,0:13:52.290 without a structure and that's what 0:13:50.640,0:13:56.280 that's why bitcoin was fascinatingly 0:13:52.290,0:13:58.710 because it's exactly that yeah I guess 0:13:56.280,0:14:01.970 bitcoin if you take it from this 0:13:58.710,0:14:04.470 perspective also creates this kind of 0:14:01.970,0:14:07.560 classes of citizens and I remember 0:14:04.470,0:14:09.510 Satoshi's saying in a comment on Bitcoin 0:14:07.560,0:14:11.940 talk that people who do not validate 0:14:09.510,0:14:15.840 their own transactions and rely on 0:14:11.940,0:14:20.040 somebody else somebody's else's node is 0:14:15.840,0:14:24.300 a second-class citizen but this is more 0:14:20.040,0:14:28.680 of a joke I don't think I don't think 0:14:24.300,0:14:31.530 it's a joke it has a sustainable engine 0:14:28.680,0:14:33.450 the second class citizen part is a joke 0:14:31.530,0:14:35.490 but it makes a lot of sense for you to 0:14:33.450,0:14:38.810 once you validate your own transactions 0:14:35.490,0:14:41.100 yeah it does it does also also also I 0:14:38.810,0:14:45.480 kind of have a different view on this 0:14:41.100,0:14:48.300 it's like this entire ecosystem made out 0:14:45.480,0:14:51.510 of individuals and each of individuals 0:14:48.300,0:14:54.360 are citizens so the classification of 0:14:51.510,0:14:57.780 the citizens are dependent and they are 0:14:54.360,0:15:00.720 based on how much impact a citizen's 0:14:57.780,0:15:03.390 decision is made on the structure of 0:15:00.720,0:15:05.370 this entire system so if you have the 0:15:03.390,0:15:07.410 first-class citizens as those whose 0:15:05.370,0:15:09.450 decisions have the highest amount of 0:15:07.410,0:15:12.030 impact who runs their own node who 0:15:09.450,0:15:14.640 validates their own transaction who 0:15:12.030,0:15:22.250 maintains their own private keys so they 0:15:14.640,0:15:22.250 have the highest amount of info right Oh 0:15:23.580,0:15:25.940 you 0:15:26.949,0:15:34.490 that looks that rush I lost you for 0:15:30.559,0:15:38.269 about ten seconds okay so can you let me 0:15:34.490,0:15:40.519 know yes you are saying that some people 0:15:38.269,0:15:42.110 have the infrastructure to validate 0:15:40.519,0:15:44.480 their own transactions and that's where 0:15:42.110,0:15:46.699 okay yeah so I think these are 0:15:44.480,0:15:49.370 classifications of our citizenship comes 0:15:46.699,0:15:51.319 from this fact that these individuals 0:15:49.370,0:15:54.559 who have this ball this required 0:15:51.319,0:15:56.990 sovereign individuals infrastructure's 0:15:54.559,0:15:58.939 and they'll be home to in order to 0:15:56.990,0:16:01.309 validate their own transactions or have 0:15:58.939,0:16:03.589 their own private keys they have the 0:16:01.309,0:16:06.470 highest amount of influence even if it 0:16:03.589,0:16:08.059 is individual it's very - cool if you 0:16:06.470,0:16:09.920 add up all these people who are doing 0:16:08.059,0:16:12.259 the same then it's become a very 0:16:09.920,0:16:16.309 tangible real thing and I think a part 0:16:12.259,0:16:20.949 of that happened in you know - X debate 0:16:16.309,0:16:25.309 and that battle that happened in 2017 so 0:16:20.949,0:16:28.459 there we saw there is a huge impact of 0:16:25.309,0:16:30.889 individuals running their own node so it 0:16:28.459,0:16:33.620 kind of makes sense to segregate 0:16:30.889,0:16:36.019 citizens seems depending on the impact 0:16:33.620,0:16:38.389 that they are imposing on their 0:16:36.019,0:16:43.730 individual decision making level over 0:16:38.389,0:16:46.160 the whole ecosystem so from your 0:16:43.730,0:16:48.589 perspective do you think that bitcoin is 0:16:46.160,0:16:51.230 much more than an economic system which 0:16:48.589,0:16:56.839 competes with world finance and you see 0:16:51.230,0:17:00.199 a political dimension to it I do I do 0:16:56.839,0:17:04.159 yeah I do III do not have yet formulated 0:17:00.199,0:17:07.850 a coherent view of how might that look 0:17:04.159,0:17:11.209 like but I do have a feeling that 0:17:07.850,0:17:14.390 bitcoin is much more like a lifestyle 0:17:11.209,0:17:16.279 thing then it's just an economical 0:17:14.390,0:17:19.279 system it's economical system at first 0:17:16.279,0:17:21.589 but it's also a lifestyle thing and it 0:17:19.279,0:17:24.169 changes you you have to mold your 0:17:21.589,0:17:26.209 lifestyle you have to mold your way of 0:17:24.169,0:17:28.789 thinking you have to mold your time 0:17:26.209,0:17:31.490 preference in certain ways in order to 0:17:28.789,0:17:33.529 meaningfully participate in this 0:17:31.490,0:17:37.280 ecosystem in this economical system 0:17:33.529,0:17:37.880 events so yeah it it has this kind of 0:17:37.280,0:17:42.980 effect 0:17:37.880,0:17:44.540 and yeah that's what I think yeah that's 0:17:42.980,0:17:46.460 a very interesting perspective and 0:17:44.540,0:17:51.080 you're basically implying that every 0:17:46.460,0:17:53.420 participant must educate himself or 0:17:51.080,0:17:56.000 herself in order yea participate to this 0:17:53.420,0:17:57.260 system but yeah my counter example right 0:17:56.000,0:18:00.500 now and you said that you haven't 0:17:57.260,0:18:02.660 formulated your ideas maybe that's why 0:18:00.500,0:18:05.780 we are having this conversation so we 0:18:02.660,0:18:08.840 get a better understanding to what we're 0:18:05.780,0:18:11.300 thinking but let let's think of the 0:18:08.840,0:18:13.490 average coinbase user who doesn't even 0:18:11.300,0:18:15.710 know what a public key and the private 0:18:13.490,0:18:17.750 key is they just know that they bought 0:18:15.710,0:18:20.330 something which they hold in that wallet 0:18:17.750,0:18:21.800 and they will probably never switch to 0:18:20.330,0:18:24.110 their own wallet 0:18:21.800,0:18:27.380 they just check price whenever they see 0:18:24.110,0:18:29.810 mainstream media news and that's pretty 0:18:27.380,0:18:33.080 much it they don't care much it's like a 0:18:29.810,0:18:35.480 hobby there they don't care enough to 0:18:33.080,0:18:37.460 get involved are we going to say that 0:18:35.480,0:18:39.980 these people are not authentic 0:18:37.460,0:18:42.470 participants or that they don't matter 0:18:39.980,0:18:45.440 because I guess they they are a large 0:18:42.470,0:18:48.230 part of the economy if you list how much 0:18:45.440,0:18:51.380 the community gets involved on forums or 0:18:48.230,0:18:56.210 on Twitter you know that this world is 0:18:51.380,0:18:57.770 quite small yeah it's true yes a few 0:18:56.210,0:19:00.140 thousand people who were just like these 0:18:57.770,0:19:02.420 crazy teen had cypherpunks were like 0:19:00.140,0:19:06.620 running nose and buying hardware wallets 0:19:02.420,0:19:08.870 and I think what's happening here is 0:19:06.620,0:19:10.670 basically all these people the entire 0:19:08.870,0:19:12.620 people who doesn't care about Bitcoin 0:19:10.670,0:19:14.270 who cares about Bitcoin who does their 0:19:12.620,0:19:17.090 nude who doesn't even know all this 0:19:14.270,0:19:19.220 spectrum of the entire people does have 0:19:17.090,0:19:21.590 all of their influence on the whole 0:19:19.220,0:19:23.480 economy even the government's who bans 0:19:21.590,0:19:27.050 Bitcoin does have an influence on 0:19:23.480,0:19:29.240 Bitcoin even though even the banker who 0:19:27.050,0:19:32.300 hates Bitcoin food we will never buy 0:19:29.240,0:19:34.460 that piece of shit also has an effect on 0:19:32.300,0:19:37.430 vehicle so everybody has their effect on 0:19:34.460,0:19:40.100 this ecosystem and these effects are not 0:19:37.430,0:19:42.290 exactly similar for everybody else for 0:19:40.100,0:19:44.360 everybody else so it doesn't mean to say 0:19:42.290,0:19:46.580 that everybody needs to run their note 0:19:44.360,0:19:49.130 or everybody has to go through this all 0:19:46.580,0:19:51.060 these cryptographic opportunities and 0:19:49.130,0:19:52.950 all these complex structures and all 0:19:51.060,0:19:55.020 complex concept to understand and to 0:19:52.950,0:19:57.660 meaningfully participate in because it's 0:19:55.020,0:19:59.910 not that we just need n ask people who 0:19:57.660,0:20:02.850 are doing that because if we have enough 0:19:59.910,0:20:06.330 people who are doing that the remaining 0:20:02.850,0:20:08.100 of the ecosystem can gather around these 0:20:06.330,0:20:10.290 people then gather around this 0:20:08.100,0:20:14.700 infrastructure and do whatever they want 0:20:10.290,0:20:19.130 to do so the ecosystem will evolve in 0:20:14.700,0:20:22.470 this diverse way and there is a very 0:20:19.130,0:20:25.290 similar parallel that exists between 0:20:22.470,0:20:29.160 this particular characteristics of 0:20:25.290,0:20:31.500 Bitcoin and the way gold is used in 0:20:29.160,0:20:33.240 Indian household basically I was just 0:20:31.500,0:20:35.010 looking through your post last night 0:20:33.240,0:20:36.450 when you posted and somebody suggested 0:20:35.010,0:20:41.040 that team should ask this question of 0:20:36.450,0:20:43.890 how Gould and India Gold culture in 0:20:41.040,0:20:45.240 India can help build wine or or it's the 0:20:43.890,0:20:46.860 reverse of it I think there is a very 0:20:45.240,0:20:50.550 interesting pair I was thinking about a 0:20:46.860,0:20:53.340 tendency in India most of the people 0:20:50.550,0:20:56.430 every household notice to upper-class 0:20:53.340,0:20:59.880 from when entire spectrum has a certain 0:20:56.430,0:21:02.940 stash of gold in it okay now they have 0:20:59.880,0:21:06.030 this gold but they don't see that gold 0:21:02.940,0:21:09.450 as an investment vehicle they don't see 0:21:06.030,0:21:11.340 that gold as a store of value ninety 0:21:09.450,0:21:13.470 percent of the people in India doesn't 0:21:11.340,0:21:15.720 care what's the value of gold is yet 0:21:13.470,0:21:17.850 they have it the reason they don't care 0:21:15.720,0:21:19.530 about the value of gold what is the 0:21:17.850,0:21:21.720 price of gold is today because they are 0:21:19.530,0:21:25.200 not willing to sell they don't sell 0:21:21.720,0:21:26.880 their gold so they hold this gold the 0:21:25.200,0:21:29.970 most of the time what happens is this 0:21:26.880,0:21:31.770 gold but changes hand through 0:21:29.970,0:21:33.840 generations after generations of 0:21:31.770,0:21:38.250 generations without even being 0:21:33.840,0:21:39.930 liquidated and the only time I Indian 0:21:38.250,0:21:42.420 household middle class lower middle 0:21:39.930,0:21:44.370 class upper class anyway any Indian 0:21:42.420,0:21:47.160 household touches their gold stack and 0:21:44.370,0:21:49.320 liquidate it in the problem of crime in 0:21:47.160,0:21:51.570 the time of crisis and that is also at 0:21:49.320,0:21:53.370 the very last resort when they have 0:21:51.570,0:21:55.530 nothing else in saving when they have 0:21:53.370,0:21:57.720 nowhere else to get the last one of 0:21:55.530,0:21:59.760 liquidity to extract they will touch 0:21:57.720,0:22:02.279 their gold and sell it so what's 0:21:59.760,0:22:05.369 happening here the people in 0:22:02.279,0:22:08.369 the the common household people who have 0:22:05.369,0:22:11.399 their gold they they don't understand 0:22:08.369,0:22:14.460 who I it's gold if you go and ask them 0:22:11.399,0:22:16.649 why do you behave for this yellow dog 0:22:14.460,0:22:18.509 why do you think this yellow dog has did 0:22:16.649,0:22:21.809 will not be able to give him a proper 0:22:18.509,0:22:24.989 answer because they are not acting on a 0:22:21.809,0:22:27.539 conscious level it's it's ingrained in 0:22:24.989,0:22:30.059 their subconscious in such a way through 0:22:27.539,0:22:33.389 cultural and social norms of thousands 0:22:30.059,0:22:36.089 of years that did they immediately feel 0:22:33.389,0:22:39.479 that it's a good idea to get a piece of 0:22:36.089,0:22:42.509 gold without having to think about how 0:22:39.479,0:22:44.669 gold is changing how gold is the hardest 0:22:42.509,0:22:46.830 money or hard money or how they are 0:22:44.669,0:22:49.139 going to go against the central bank you 0:22:46.830,0:22:52.529 are any kind of Austrian or libertarian 0:22:49.139,0:22:55.589 philosophy they have no clue and they do 0:22:52.529,0:22:58.109 not even understand why gold has the 0:22:55.589,0:23:01.469 properties it has so that it can retain 0:22:58.109,0:23:03.809 its value throughout but that doesn't 0:23:01.469,0:23:06.960 matter that doesn't matter to have them 0:23:03.809,0:23:10.440 that step of gold so I think the 0:23:06.960,0:23:13.889 cultures develop in this way so you have 0:23:10.440,0:23:17.789 certainly you have a certain group of 0:23:13.889,0:23:21.539 small chunks who see things differently 0:23:17.789,0:23:23.190 who invest in gold for whatever purpose 0:23:21.539,0:23:25.529 so there are gold bugs and all the other 0:23:23.190,0:23:27.839 goon works in India so they invest in 0:23:25.529,0:23:29.820 gold they put money into their gold as a 0:23:27.839,0:23:32.129 return of investment or as a self 0:23:29.820,0:23:35.759 sovereign store of value or whatever but 0:23:32.129,0:23:38.759 that doesn't stop stop other people to 0:23:35.759,0:23:41.039 have gold as a store of value without 0:23:38.759,0:23:43.289 even knowing why they are using it as a 0:23:41.039,0:23:45.479 store of hell or why it is a good store 0:23:43.289,0:23:50.339 of value that other other metal crafts 0:23:45.479,0:23:52.469 so this happens over generations and 0:23:50.339,0:23:56.759 generations and it takes a longer time 0:23:52.469,0:24:00.089 to get engraved into the social psyche 0:23:56.759,0:24:03.359 of the people to behave around certain 0:24:00.089,0:24:07.409 asset classes in this way and Bitcoin 0:24:03.359,0:24:11.070 has exact same properties as gold so I 0:24:07.409,0:24:14.950 don't see any reason why this kind of 0:24:11.070,0:24:17.080 behaviors cannot happen around Bitcoin 0:24:14.950,0:24:19.629 because it has the same properties that 0:24:17.080,0:24:22.149 you need to simulate this phenomena so 0:24:19.629,0:24:23.139 even though people don't run their full 0:24:22.149,0:24:25.299 load even though they are not 0:24:23.139,0:24:28.299 libertarian even though they don't hear 0:24:25.299,0:24:31.869 about central banking monetary policies 0:24:28.299,0:24:34.869 inflation on the social psyche can be 0:24:31.869,0:24:37.239 built around Bitcoin in such a way that 0:24:34.869,0:24:39.820 people have immediately know in their 0:24:37.239,0:24:42.460 gut that it's a good idea to have some 0:24:39.820,0:24:45.159 sets without being able to explain why 0:24:42.460,0:24:46.450 that might be the case I guess in two 0:24:45.159,0:24:48.539 hundred years 0:24:46.450,0:24:52.509 we're going to have something similar 0:24:48.539,0:24:55.419 especially maybe even closer than that 0:24:52.509,0:24:58.629 maybe before two thousand one hundred 0:24:55.419,0:25:02.499 and forty when we're going to have the 0:24:58.629,0:25:03.940 last few bitcoins being mine I'm not 0:25:02.499,0:25:06.879 sure what's going to happen to the 0:25:03.940,0:25:08.980 network at that point if the community 0:25:06.879,0:25:11.619 will decide to hard fork and maybe 0:25:08.980,0:25:14.830 create a greater inflation or they will 0:25:11.619,0:25:17.220 just have a moment and say this is it 0:25:14.830,0:25:20.830 we're going to use this supply 0:25:17.220,0:25:23.169 rationally and make sense out of it see 0:25:20.830,0:25:26.559 how we can distribute the coins in a way 0:25:23.169,0:25:29.470 that helps the prosperity of whatever 0:25:26.559,0:25:32.679 they're going to have like world state 0:25:29.470,0:25:36.970 or nation states or I have no idea 0:25:32.679,0:25:40.600 what's what the future has it's very 0:25:36.970,0:25:43.899 difficult to try to predict futures even 0:25:40.600,0:25:45.879 beyond three to four years because we 0:25:43.899,0:25:48.669 burn nothing nicolas de la describe this 0:25:45.879,0:25:51.100 very elusively and very rightly because 0:25:48.669,0:25:53.200 the our intern world is basically random 0:25:51.100,0:25:55.809 so there are lots of randomness that we 0:25:53.200,0:25:58.480 cannot even comprehend so if we know 0:25:55.809,0:26:00.549 what would happen in future we would 0:25:58.480,0:26:02.799 already have that in present because we 0:26:00.549,0:26:05.830 know how to do that in future that means 0:26:02.799,0:26:07.299 we know how to solve that problem so if 0:26:05.830,0:26:08.889 we know how to solve that problem in 0:26:07.299,0:26:11.710 future that means we know how to solve 0:26:08.889,0:26:13.869 that problem now so the fact that we 0:26:11.710,0:26:17.019 don't happen to have the future doesn't 0:26:13.869,0:26:20.109 save on its own that we don't we cannot 0:26:17.019,0:26:22.359 predict the future this looking at our 0:26:20.109,0:26:24.480 present so that's a very deeper 0:26:22.359,0:26:26.230 philosophical meaning about our 0:26:24.480,0:26:28.870 exploration on reality 0:26:26.230,0:26:30.730 but I want to touch another product that 0:26:28.870,0:26:36.570 there is a difference between Bitcoin 0:26:30.730,0:26:39.880 and gold and that is a tangible 'ti this 0:26:36.570,0:26:42.820 what it seems around me is in this 0:26:39.880,0:26:46.240 Indian society when when when a 0:26:42.820,0:26:48.340 housewife gets a small step of gold or 0:26:46.240,0:26:50.710 informal jewelry's or in form of 0:26:48.340,0:26:53.800 buildings in form of a necklace or in 0:26:50.710,0:26:57.760 form of any other form they they always 0:26:53.800,0:27:01.150 tend to have the form in such a way that 0:26:57.760,0:27:05.140 they can show off it to the society and 0:27:01.150,0:27:10.120 this showing off is a very crucial part 0:27:05.140,0:27:13.300 of having that acid because you want to 0:27:10.120,0:27:14.950 have a kind of thing that you can show 0:27:13.300,0:27:17.110 to people you can point to people you 0:27:14.950,0:27:19.600 can hold in your hand and you can wear 0:27:17.110,0:27:23.290 it in your body and display to the 0:27:19.600,0:27:29.320 society that you have this asset it 0:27:23.290,0:27:34.200 kinds of bring a human bias into full 0:27:29.320,0:27:34.200 front that a human humans are prone to 0:27:34.260,0:27:42.190 display their their status their social 0:27:38.470,0:27:45.190 positions their their way of life their 0:27:42.190,0:27:47.440 way of thinking in society and in the 0:27:45.190,0:27:49.630 surrounding society near them and that 0:27:47.440,0:27:53.260 is a very crucial part of being 0:27:49.630,0:27:56.680 socialized and so that is the problem 0:27:53.260,0:27:59.140 that Bitcoin and have that gold doesn't 0:27:56.680,0:28:01.630 that you cannot just point to a thing 0:27:59.140,0:28:04.480 and you say like look this is my Bitcoin 0:28:01.630,0:28:05.320 or look I have made a necklace out of 0:28:04.480,0:28:07.630 Bitcoin 0:28:05.320,0:28:11.320 even though that is not my entire big 0:28:07.630,0:28:14.370 contact but I am showing off my Bitcoin 0:28:11.320,0:28:16.810 state to the society as a form of 0:28:14.370,0:28:17.980 displaying my social position you cannot 0:28:16.810,0:28:27.940 do that with bitcoins 0:28:17.980,0:28:29.530 you can wear a QR code you can imagine 0:28:27.940,0:28:33.430 that they're going to have some kind of 0:28:29.530,0:28:36.040 wearable item which scans the codes like 0:28:33.430,0:28:38.740 the Google glass you know that thing 0:28:36.040,0:28:39.630 yeah yeah it's something which enables 0:28:38.740,0:28:41.970 augmented 0:28:39.630,0:28:43.740 reality so people in the future are 0:28:41.970,0:28:47.130 going to be wearing that they can 0:28:43.740,0:28:50.360 actually see how much Bitcoin each other 0:28:47.130,0:28:57.090 actually has if they want to show off 0:28:50.360,0:29:00.110 yeah the culture bitcoiners is to not 0:28:57.090,0:29:04.140 reveal how much there is stone for yes 0:29:00.110,0:29:06.270 for personal security reasons yes you 0:29:04.140,0:29:09.900 don't want to get dogs do the ones who 0:29:06.270,0:29:12.000 get swatted if you own a lot of Bitcoin 0:29:09.900,0:29:14.310 it's a lot better for you to beep 0:29:12.000,0:29:17.820 pseudonymous on the internet and try not 0:29:14.310,0:29:20.190 to reveal any personal detail about what 0:29:17.820,0:29:24.930 you do where you live and stuff like 0:29:20.190,0:29:27.810 that yeah cool this is the thing about 0:29:24.930,0:29:30.720 it incentivizes people to think about 0:29:27.810,0:29:33.660 your privacy it incentivizes you to take 0:29:30.720,0:29:35.280 responsibility of your privacy and that 0:29:33.660,0:29:36.900 is the lifestyle teaching that Bitcoin 0:29:35.280,0:29:38.880 teaches in when you try to hold your 0:29:36.900,0:29:43.010 private key so very difficult to chop 0:29:38.880,0:29:46.200 you hold your private key so so I think 0:29:43.010,0:29:48.990 Bitcoin in discount I am not really sure 0:29:46.200,0:29:52.230 but it feels to me that Bitcoin will not 0:29:48.990,0:29:54.870 be properly completely eradicate to 0:29:52.230,0:29:58.560 existence of gold because gold doesn't 0:29:54.870,0:30:00.480 have this kind of incentives so of 0:29:58.560,0:30:03.060 course so does it it's another form of 0:30:00.480,0:30:06.810 property you have see what it does 0:30:03.060,0:30:08.730 another form of property but but the 0:30:06.810,0:30:12.150 thing is like if you wear a gold 0:30:08.730,0:30:14.970 necklace it just looks good and there is 0:30:12.150,0:30:17.460 a social norm that established in the 0:30:14.970,0:30:20.460 society that everybody agrees that it's 0:30:17.460,0:30:22.590 no good on you like that's the mental 0:30:20.460,0:30:25.500 psychology that happens in every Indian 0:30:22.590,0:30:28.410 woman so they assassinated about gold 0:30:25.500,0:30:32.250 jewelry because it's shiny it looks good 0:30:28.410,0:30:34.770 and they're fascinated about it's not it 0:30:32.250,0:30:37.680 cannot be just any yellow metal you can 0:30:34.770,0:30:40.140 hear if you have a yellow metal that is 0:30:37.680,0:30:41.700 painted yellow metal rolling and you 0:30:40.140,0:30:45.150 have a gold medal there is very 0:30:41.700,0:30:47.850 different very very it's very difficult 0:30:45.150,0:30:49.220 to just watch and see and Martell's from 0:30:47.850,0:30:52.940 your eyes like which one 0:30:49.220,0:30:54.980 real one but it doesn't it almost mean 0:30:52.940,0:30:57.799 it doesn't matter to them they want the 0:30:54.980,0:31:00.530 real thing because they want to tell 0:30:57.799,0:31:06.970 people that this is the goal to that I 0:31:00.530,0:31:11.090 have and that showing that doesn't also 0:31:06.970,0:31:13.039 tells everybody else already that they 0:31:11.090,0:31:17.450 have a huge gold stash somewhere hidden 0:31:13.039,0:31:20.450 so that's the thing that is happening 0:31:17.450,0:31:23.059 with gold but you cannot happen to have 0:31:20.450,0:31:25.220 that in Bitcoin because if you tell if 0:31:23.059,0:31:27.470 you try to show off your Bitcoin holding 0:31:25.220,0:31:29.570 the very next thing that it will have 0:31:27.470,0:31:32.510 that you will get dogs and you will get 0:31:29.570,0:31:35.270 all sorts of attacks on you on personal 0:31:32.510,0:31:38.570 things so you have to be secretive about 0:31:35.270,0:31:40.730 in your bitcoins but you it seems to me 0:31:38.570,0:31:42.799 that it's not necessary for gold because 0:31:40.730,0:31:45.289 people can comfortably display their 0:31:42.799,0:31:48.650 gold to the society yet they can be 0:31:45.289,0:31:53.090 relatively secure about their entire 0:31:48.650,0:31:55.730 gold stack hidden somewhere yeah that's 0:31:53.090,0:31:59.450 just because everybody supposedly has 0:31:55.730,0:32:01.700 their own stack of gold so it's more 0:31:59.450,0:32:05.919 unlikely for you to actually want to 0:32:01.700,0:32:09.169 steal somebody else's there is also this 0:32:05.919,0:32:11.570 social structure which allows people to 0:32:09.169,0:32:14.210 know how much gold the other person owns 0:32:11.570,0:32:17.330 so if you steal from them it's going to 0:32:14.210,0:32:20.750 be very obvious you're going to get a 0:32:17.330,0:32:23.630 card so your incentives to actually try 0:32:20.750,0:32:26.630 to rob somebody after gold in India I 0:32:23.630,0:32:28.909 guess are just lower just because you're 0:32:26.630,0:32:32.419 everybody has it caught are high and 0:32:28.909,0:32:36.980 everybody has it so your neighbor knows 0:32:32.419,0:32:39.350 how much gold you have and if you happen 0:32:36.980,0:32:42.710 to show off with the gold that you stole 0:32:39.350,0:32:44.480 from somebody else then I guess it's 0:32:42.710,0:32:47.000 going to be well known as people can 0:32:44.480,0:32:50.630 recognize but at the same time gold is 0:32:47.000,0:32:53.270 one of these metals which aren't wasted 0:32:50.630,0:32:56.870 so you can melt gold and put it in 0:32:53.270,0:33:01.669 different shapes yes you create various 0:32:56.870,0:33:02.190 objects or jewelry with it yes yeah yeah 0:33:01.669,0:33:03.509 yeah 0:33:02.190,0:33:06.299 most of the time it happened what 0:33:03.509,0:33:08.519 happens instead this gold staff of every 0:33:06.299,0:33:10.950 Indian household they never get 0:33:08.519,0:33:12.840 liquidated what happens is they get 0:33:10.950,0:33:15.149 transferred through generations and 0:33:12.840,0:33:17.580 generations and generations without ever 0:33:15.149,0:33:20.009 getting liquidated in the process they 0:33:17.580,0:33:22.470 get moving from one jewelry to another 0:33:20.009,0:33:24.330 jewelry or from multiple jewelry's to 0:33:22.470,0:33:27.629 one big jewelry store all sorts of 0:33:24.330,0:33:28.860 different kinds of but they almost never 0:33:27.629,0:33:30.870 get liquidated 0:33:28.860,0:33:33.720 there are households which have this 0:33:30.870,0:33:35.700 gold stack or some particular items of 0:33:33.720,0:33:38.460 gold that has been in their family for 0:33:35.700,0:33:40.350 generations of generations and they 0:33:38.460,0:33:44.279 never think about liquidating it and 0:33:40.350,0:33:47.940 this particular aspect is also also true 0:33:44.279,0:33:50.039 in case of bitcoins there are people in 0:33:47.940,0:33:52.649 Bitcoin space I believe who have this 0:33:50.039,0:33:54.960 mentality of never liquidating their 0:33:52.649,0:33:57.179 Bitcoin because because they can 0:33:54.960,0:33:58.950 simulate that exact same thing that 0:33:57.179,0:34:01.440 Indians are doing with their port of 0:33:58.950,0:34:04.529 passing wealth to generation without 0:34:01.440,0:34:07.320 ever needing to convert it into other 0:34:04.529,0:34:10.710 form of money or without even being a 0:34:07.320,0:34:14.220 needing to calculate its ROI equal say 0:34:10.710,0:34:16.349 and that works and there is no reason 0:34:14.220,0:34:18.720 why it cannot work for Bitcoin it can 0:34:16.349,0:34:21.750 similarly work for Bitcoin and I think 0:34:18.720,0:34:23.879 we will over our generation and over the 0:34:21.750,0:34:26.639 next generation we will see it's kind of 0:34:23.879,0:34:28.889 things happening when the Bitcoin 0:34:26.639,0:34:31.770 doesn't even touches the blocks in any 0:34:28.889,0:34:33.869 way it's me you just transmit the piped 0:34:31.770,0:34:37.950 keys from generation to generation to 0:34:33.869,0:34:40.560 generation and that's how and it can it 0:34:37.950,0:34:42.899 can retain its well very effectively 0:34:40.560,0:34:44.940 through time so you can really easily do 0:34:42.899,0:34:47.490 that and I think people will do that at 0:34:44.940,0:34:50.579 certain point of them in the culture 0:34:47.490,0:34:53.310 from which I come in Romania there used 0:34:50.579,0:34:57.180 to be this tradition for women to get 0:34:53.310,0:34:59.700 gold after the marriage and it was 0:34:57.180,0:35:02.609 gifted by the man whom they were 0:34:59.700,0:35:04.859 marrying as a guarantee that if they get 0:35:02.609,0:35:07.280 left alone they're going to be able to 0:35:04.859,0:35:10.910 break even and become independent 0:35:07.280,0:35:14.520 financially this was before we had 0:35:10.910,0:35:15.260 divorces which allow you to take 50% of 0:35:14.520,0:35:18.350 what you 0:35:15.260,0:35:21.410 among Lyon and before we had this sort 0:35:18.350,0:35:24.620 of legal and civil Riemann's it was just 0:35:21.410,0:35:26.630 a social norm to ensure that the woman 0:35:24.620,0:35:30.140 the woman if she happens to be left 0:35:26.630,0:35:33.130 alone and abandoned she will they be 0:35:30.140,0:35:35.990 able to handle herself financially and 0:35:33.130,0:35:38.120 the gold was a guarantee that was 0:35:35.990,0:35:43.190 offered to her for a good life no matter 0:35:38.120,0:35:46.930 what same thing happens here yeah it 0:35:43.190,0:35:50.570 makes sense a social and political 0:35:46.930,0:35:52.940 structure where you you actually don't 0:35:50.570,0:35:57.050 want to waste your life and you don't 0:35:52.940,0:35:59.750 want to I don't know how I should call 0:35:57.050,0:36:08.530 the term you don't want to be left alone 0:35:59.750,0:36:11.180 you don't want to really accept 0:36:08.530,0:36:13.280 insecurities that you just transfer it 0:36:11.180,0:36:15.980 to somebody just handing it over that's 0:36:13.280,0:36:18.320 all you need to do and that's called and 0:36:15.980,0:36:21.830 it's so socially accepted and it's easy 0:36:18.320,0:36:23.870 to do and which has and through it has 0:36:21.830,0:36:24.680 retained its values time very 0:36:23.870,0:36:26.540 effectively 0:36:24.680,0:36:28.670 it has ingrained in that social side 0:36:26.540,0:36:31.700 that this is a very good thing to do 0:36:28.670,0:36:34.100 this is a good idea to have some code so 0:36:31.700,0:36:37.280 that's how these kind of norms emerges 0:36:34.100,0:36:40.280 out of it the point where I was trying 0:36:37.280,0:36:43.040 to get from this is that what we were 0:36:40.280,0:36:45.140 having is a very primitive form of what 0:36:43.040,0:36:48.950 we have right now and is called 0:36:45.140,0:36:52.090 multi-sig so it was a mutual agreement 0:36:48.950,0:36:56.660 between multiple parties in which 0:36:52.090,0:37:01.220 everybody owned like a part of a private 0:36:56.660,0:37:05.060 key right and if they wanted to get out 0:37:01.220,0:37:08.530 they had their way of actually being 0:37:05.060,0:37:11.570 financially well-off if they wanted to 0:37:08.530,0:37:15.230 mm-hmm right now if you wanted to 0:37:11.570,0:37:18.020 replicate it you'd have a three-part 0:37:15.230,0:37:20.320 private key and each spouse would have 0:37:18.020,0:37:23.390 one and the other one would be may be 0:37:20.320,0:37:26.170 stored in a bank so if one of them 0:37:23.390,0:37:29.000 wanted to divorce and they agreed that 0:37:26.170,0:37:32.570 it's okay for them to 0:37:29.000,0:37:36.800 separate then they would get access to 0:37:32.570,0:37:40.730 that third part and the spouse who is 0:37:36.800,0:37:43.310 maybe in the worst financial situation 0:37:40.730,0:37:47.030 would be able to get access to that 0:37:43.310,0:37:51.050 Bitcoin true you know that kind of thing 0:37:47.030,0:37:54.230 can be much it's much easier to do this 0:37:51.050,0:37:56.810 kind of constructs with Bitcoin than it 0:37:54.230,0:37:59.930 then then on gold you cannot do this 0:37:56.810,0:38:01.490 kind of crazy multi-sig things on gold 0:37:59.930,0:38:02.180 but you can really easily do that on 0:38:01.490,0:38:05.840 that one 0:38:02.180,0:38:09.349 we will see a lot of I think we will see 0:38:05.840,0:38:12.859 a lot of this kind of primitive social 0:38:09.349,0:38:15.740 contracts that can leverage the power of 0:38:12.859,0:38:18.050 Bitcoin smart contracting tools to have 0:38:15.740,0:38:20.780 this kind of ways for people to 0:38:18.050,0:38:25.869 negotiate different kind of social norms 0:38:20.780,0:38:30.710 and different kind of mitigation of 0:38:25.869,0:38:32.330 social situation and yeah we'll just add 0:38:30.710,0:38:35.240 the tip of the iceberg 0:38:32.330,0:38:37.700 we just don't know how far this thing 0:38:35.240,0:38:40.339 can go we just know that this is made 0:38:37.700,0:38:44.060 this is huge this has huge implications 0:38:40.339,0:38:46.250 on our society and we just have to wait 0:38:44.060,0:38:48.560 and see and this is the fun part of 0:38:46.250,0:38:51.410 Bitcoin I was studying bit welding you 0:38:48.560,0:38:53.530 don't have to you don't have to bend 0:38:51.410,0:38:55.849 your head a lot to figure out a problem 0:38:53.530,0:38:57.619 figure the solution of the problem the 0:38:55.849,0:39:00.920 problem has been solved all you need to 0:38:57.619,0:39:04.130 do now is sit back and observe and the 0:39:00.920,0:39:06.619 thing will unfold in our eyes in real 0:39:04.130,0:39:09.369 time and that will be a sight to behold 0:39:06.619,0:39:12.020 we just don't know what's gonna happen 0:39:09.369,0:39:15.200 well we know what's going to happen with 0:39:12.020,0:39:19.250 the currency itself as it has a fixed 0:39:15.200,0:39:20.960 monetary policy and that's predictable 0:39:19.250,0:39:24.349 and that's part of the reason why we 0:39:20.960,0:39:26.810 agree that Bitcoin has value then why I 0:39:24.349,0:39:29.420 got into Bitcoin has more to do with the 0:39:26.810,0:39:32.900 inflation and the monetary debasement 0:39:29.420,0:39:36.410 happening in my country where you have a 0:39:32.900,0:39:41.000 monthly inflation rate of about 4% so 0:39:36.410,0:39:42.200 let's say that if I make about $1,000 a 0:39:41.000,0:39:44.600 month 0:39:42.200,0:39:47.350 then from one month to the other I'm 0:39:44.600,0:39:49.520 going to lose $40 of purchasing power 0:39:47.350,0:39:52.730 yeah that's terrible 0:39:49.520,0:39:56.210 and not only that is terrible but the 0:39:52.730,0:40:00.260 prices that you have for the phone bill 0:39:56.210,0:40:03.590 for your rent and for a lot of services 0:40:00.260,0:40:05.840 that you pay are actually calculated at 0:40:03.590,0:40:08.810 in the Euro which is the European 0:40:05.840,0:40:14.210 currency of reference and it's a lot 0:40:08.810,0:40:15.680 more stable than the Romanian low so it 0:40:14.210,0:40:18.350 makes a lot of sense to look for 0:40:15.680,0:40:20.180 something which helps you retain the 0:40:18.350,0:40:22.460 value of your money if you want to shave 0:40:20.180,0:40:25.970 otherwise you're going to end up in this 0:40:22.460,0:40:28.340 rat race where you're incentivized to 0:40:25.970,0:40:32.720 spend your cash as fast as you can and 0:40:28.340,0:40:34.880 dump it to the other person and you're 0:40:32.720,0:40:37.430 not going to save anything it's all 0:40:34.880,0:40:41.480 about consuming and buying and buying 0:40:37.430,0:40:44.540 and buying and that's how that starts 0:40:41.480,0:40:47.090 the vicious consumer death cycle that 0:40:44.540,0:40:51.830 happens in hyper inflating countries and 0:40:47.090,0:40:55.070 also it 4% inflation monthly is very 0:40:51.830,0:40:59.750 very high and that is not a lot of life 0:40:55.070,0:41:03.950 so our world needed this kind of ways to 0:40:59.750,0:41:06.950 retain their values and cold was doing a 0:41:03.950,0:41:09.200 very bad job at it because of its nature 0:41:06.950,0:41:11.960 because it's baby because it's a 0:41:09.200,0:41:14.780 physical metal so it it means to be 0:41:11.960,0:41:17.420 inherently centralized in a vault so 0:41:14.780,0:41:21.890 that was the big fault of gold so gold 0:41:17.420,0:41:25.400 failed us to provide the store of value 0:41:21.890,0:41:28.970 we needed and Bitcoin King in a very 0:41:25.400,0:41:32.540 crucial time of our human history we we 0:41:28.970,0:41:36.290 were just going to get do it into this 0:41:32.540,0:41:38.570 ever inflationary cycle of central bank 0:41:36.290,0:41:40.550 spending money and it's not that they 0:41:38.570,0:41:42.800 are bad people they can't do anything 0:41:40.550,0:41:44.570 about it if they can't just stop it the 0:41:42.800,0:41:48.050 moment they try to stop it at the entire 0:41:44.570,0:41:49.970 economy will collapse so they are kind 0:41:48.050,0:41:51.830 of in a path of self destruct 0:41:49.970,0:41:53.570 they will self destruct themselves 0:41:51.830,0:41:55.080 moving next hundred years maybe even 0:41:53.570,0:41:58.080 sooner nobody 0:41:55.080,0:42:00.870 but yeah for the first time we have this 0:41:58.080,0:42:03.780 relief valve system where the society 0:42:00.870,0:42:06.420 can finally say like screw you screw 0:42:03.780,0:42:09.390 your monetary policies I am NOT gonna 0:42:06.420,0:42:11.430 I'm not gonna play your game I'm not 0:42:09.390,0:42:13.890 gonna play the stupid game of endless 0:42:11.430,0:42:16.290 consumerism I am going to save my money 0:42:13.890,0:42:18.840 I am going to build my future and I will 0:42:16.290,0:42:21.180 just pass it on even if I can't 0:42:18.840,0:42:23.310 liquidate it even if you don't let me to 0:42:21.180,0:42:25.140 convert it into fiat currencies I don't 0:42:23.310,0:42:27.540 care I'll just find this pass it on to 0:42:25.140,0:42:30.690 my next generation and maybe they don't 0:42:27.540,0:42:34.310 even need to so that kind this is a very 0:42:30.690,0:42:37.020 big statement and this is a very 0:42:34.310,0:42:40.410 impactful statement that a human 0:42:37.020,0:42:43.080 individual can say to himself so this 0:42:40.410,0:42:46.110 thing is or not it's not just about 0:42:43.080,0:42:48.780 oneself it's also about the society at 0:42:46.110,0:42:50.850 large and the government as when you 0:42:48.780,0:42:54.420 refuse to use the currency that your 0:42:50.850,0:42:56.550 government issues you're creating a 0:42:54.420,0:42:59.520 problem which has no precedent and has 0:42:56.550,0:43:01.920 no actual solution they can ban Bitcoin 0:42:59.520,0:43:05.430 they can tell you you'll not be able to 0:43:01.920,0:43:07.890 convert legally your Bitcoin into our 0:43:05.430,0:43:09.870 national currency but they will not be 0:43:07.890,0:43:12.030 able to confiscate you they'll 0:43:09.870,0:43:16.350 confiscate your Bitcoin they will not be 0:43:12.030,0:43:18.450 able to censor your transactions unless 0:43:16.350,0:43:20.970 you don't the internet but even for that 0:43:18.450,0:43:25.590 they figured out solutions with the 0:43:20.970,0:43:27.900 satellite and mash antennas with we then 0:43:25.590,0:43:29.880 radio signals which is brilliant 0:43:27.900,0:43:34.380 thank you Nexus oh and you'll a news 0:43:29.880,0:43:35.910 that's that's fascinating I was just 0:43:34.380,0:43:38.610 reading through the speaker that 0:43:35.910,0:43:41.640 recently launched on Lightning Network 0:43:38.610,0:43:44.310 over mesh connections so they are 0:43:41.640,0:43:47.850 incentivizing this mesh node to forward 0:43:44.310,0:43:50.400 messages for a very small amount of that 0:43:47.850,0:43:54.120 very small amount of light in cables so 0:43:50.400,0:43:56.280 that was fascinating and yeah we are 0:43:54.120,0:43:57.509 going into zones where people are 0:43:56.280,0:43:59.969 gathering more and 0:43:57.509,0:44:02.639 more sources so that they can say things 0:43:59.969,0:44:06.899 to the government likes who you I am not 0:44:02.639,0:44:09.419 guilty anymore I quit I exit so Bitcoin 0:44:06.899,0:44:11.639 was the first example that have that 0:44:09.419,0:44:14.389 that that was placed inside a burning 0:44:11.639,0:44:17.519 theater as envious like good days and 0:44:14.389,0:44:21.089 once we got out of this exit door there 0:44:17.519,0:44:24.209 is this mu entire world and we are 0:44:21.089,0:44:25.949 slowly slowly starting to navigate 0:44:24.209,0:44:28.949 through that world and we are slowly 0:44:25.949,0:44:31.229 building the houses electric poles the 0:44:28.949,0:44:34.499 other infrastructure so that people can 0:44:31.229,0:44:37.259 successfully live outside that burning 0:44:34.499,0:44:39.509 clitoris so so far we have just gone 0:44:37.259,0:44:42.269 outside the door through that exit door 0:44:39.509,0:44:44.130 and as we are going out through that X 0:44:42.269,0:44:46.559 and two people are building more stuff 0:44:44.130,0:44:50.159 so that we can go further out out and 0:44:46.559,0:44:52.739 I'm just gonna keep on building I agree 0:44:50.159,0:44:55.169 but what is the situation of Bitcoin in 0:44:52.739,0:44:56.339 India it's the second most populous 0:44:55.169,0:44:59.339 country in the world some people 0:44:56.339,0:45:02.659 estimate that within 20 or 30 years 0:44:59.339,0:45:06.989 they're going to have the most citizens 0:45:02.659,0:45:09.089 even more than China and I I suspect 0:45:06.989,0:45:13.049 that there's a lot going on with Bitcoin 0:45:09.089,0:45:15.509 right I'm not necessarily not really 0:45:13.049,0:45:17.999 part of the reason is the Indian 0:45:15.509,0:45:21.179 currency is not feeling that much 0:45:17.999,0:45:23.669 catastrophically right so it's kind of 0:45:21.179,0:45:26.759 stable it still has I think not nearly 0:45:23.669,0:45:29.819 2% inflation rate which is pretty high 0:45:26.759,0:45:31.919 for how many people they are they are 0:45:29.819,0:45:34.380 feeling the heat but they don't seem to 0:45:31.919,0:45:36.119 grasp what exactly is the culprit 0:45:34.380,0:45:38.519 they are blaming all sorts of different 0:45:36.119,0:45:40.559 parties and all the political parties 0:45:38.519,0:45:42.899 are like blaming each other and blaming 0:45:40.559,0:45:45.329 the central parties for we are doing 0:45:42.899,0:45:48.539 this but nobody is actually blasting why 0:45:45.329,0:45:51.599 this is happening and but as the problem 0:45:48.539,0:45:54.299 is not very dire right now they are also 0:45:51.599,0:45:56.219 good looking for a disparate exit to 0:45:54.299,0:46:00.019 even the éxito is there they are not 0:45:56.219,0:46:02.609 looking for it right so most of the 0:46:00.019,0:46:05.249 situation in India with 0:46:02.609,0:46:06.480 and other cryptocurrencies are really 0:46:05.249,0:46:08.670 speculations 0:46:06.480,0:46:11.309 they're just accumulating they're just 0:46:08.670,0:46:14.160 looking at it and seeing these new 0:46:11.309,0:46:16.049 guidelines this weird parabolic tie 0:46:14.160,0:46:17.819 slice and then just become fascinated 0:46:16.049,0:46:21.660 with it and they just want to make a 0:46:17.819,0:46:24.269 buck that's all there are people who are 0:46:21.660,0:46:26.519 realizing to the fact but it's not 0:46:24.269,0:46:29.359 happening any large enough scale so that 0:46:26.519,0:46:32.400 you can have a rolling movie economy of 0:46:29.359,0:46:35.789 of a complete closed-loop economy where 0:46:32.400,0:46:37.739 you can do most of the things with bed : 0:46:35.789,0:46:40.410 it's not happening that way because 0:46:37.739,0:46:44.400 there is not enough need right now the 0:46:40.410,0:46:46.619 currency is kind of skinnies so mostly 0:46:44.400,0:46:49.829 there are a lot of hype regarding the 0:46:46.619,0:46:53.220 blockchain Neal II and all these other 0:46:49.829,0:46:57.299 crypto projects for saying today I saw 0:46:53.220,0:47:00.059 article that RBI is doing some R&D 0:46:57.299,0:47:02.819 research on some blockchain TLT kind of 0:47:00.059,0:47:04.890 things so they are looking into this 0:47:02.819,0:47:09.180 thing from a very different perspective 0:47:04.890,0:47:12.749 so they are kind of like looking the 0:47:09.180,0:47:14.549 entire structure and extracting some 0:47:12.749,0:47:16.680 certain powers out of it like the 0:47:14.549,0:47:18.749 blockchain data structure or nearly 0:47:16.680,0:47:20.789 whatever I have no clue why they decided 0:47:18.749,0:47:21.749 to extract the blockchain teenis it's 0:47:20.789,0:47:26.249 kind of irrelevant 0:47:21.749,0:47:28.559 so then expect in different parts of 0:47:26.249,0:47:32.849 these structures and they are trying to 0:47:28.559,0:47:35.700 build systems which are the old systems 0:47:32.849,0:47:39.450 but basically trying to make it more 0:47:35.700,0:47:42.539 efficient and I don't think that they 0:47:39.450,0:47:45.749 will be able to succeed on this quest 0:47:42.539,0:47:47.940 being a very meaningful or socially 0:47:45.749,0:47:52.619 transforming me because they were 0:47:47.940,0:47:56.309 looking at a solution for up for which a 0:47:52.619,0:47:58.380 problem doesn't exist and this has been 0:47:56.309,0:48:01.739 happening a lot so most of the spaces 0:47:58.380,0:48:03.779 are like that RBI has imposed a banking 0:48:01.739,0:48:06.660 ban on cryptocurrency so this is what we 0:48:03.779,0:48:09.269 are saying so they are saying you as an 0:48:06.660,0:48:12.450 individual can do whatever with your 0:48:09.269,0:48:16.170 money we don't care but they are saying 0:48:12.450,0:48:18.869 the banks that it's your duty to 0:48:16.170,0:48:20.809 make sure that you do not get involved 0:48:18.869,0:48:24.780 in any kind of cryptocurrency 0:48:20.809,0:48:28.380 transaction okay so if you may happen to 0:48:24.780,0:48:31.380 have a yet to Bitcoin transfer through 0:48:28.380,0:48:33.510 your bank account and the RBI knows that 0:48:31.380,0:48:35.490 and the bank knows that the bank will 0:48:33.510,0:48:38.160 close your account because they will say 0:48:35.490,0:48:39.960 like RBI told us not to do this so we 0:48:38.160,0:48:41.849 can't allow you to do this so this is 0:48:39.960,0:48:44.130 the banking band situation right now 0:48:41.849,0:48:46.500 that is going on so all this blockchain 0:48:44.130,0:48:48.720 and deity people they are like really 0:48:46.500,0:48:50.940 putting up enough force and that's why I 0:48:48.720,0:48:53.700 don't really think these all these 0:48:50.940,0:48:57.750 things are bad ideas all these things 0:48:53.700,0:49:01.380 are relevant they are relevant and they 0:48:57.750,0:49:03.930 are here to put the required force on 0:49:01.380,0:49:07.500 the government to lift up these 0:49:03.930,0:49:09.630 restrictions so and they're doing a 0:49:07.500,0:49:13.530 really good job the community is doing a 0:49:09.630,0:49:16.890 really good job in taking the entire 0:49:13.530,0:49:18.930 force of the mass the entire incentives 0:49:16.890,0:49:20.220 of each and every individual most even 0:49:18.930,0:49:22.099 if it's for speculation 0:49:20.220,0:49:25.260 even is just for gambling but the 0:49:22.099,0:49:27.390 incentives are real and they are 0:49:25.260,0:49:29.760 gathering these incentives and kind of 0:49:27.390,0:49:34.200 building up this force on the government 0:49:29.760,0:49:37.559 through policymaking through discussions 0:49:34.200,0:49:39.240 and through media outlets to withdraw 0:49:37.559,0:49:42.119 this restriction and government is 0:49:39.240,0:49:44.760 finding really hard trying to are trying 0:49:42.119,0:49:46.829 to negotiate this domain right now 0:49:44.760,0:49:49.500 because one hand they don't want to be 0:49:46.829,0:49:51.720 left a left behind on our technical 0:49:49.500,0:49:53.190 revolution on the other hand they don't 0:49:51.720,0:49:55.829 want to be lose control over their 0:49:53.190,0:49:58.559 monetary policies so they are in a very 0:49:55.829,0:50:00.900 tricky situation right now just for the 0:49:58.559,0:50:04.890 record what is the RBI which you 0:50:00.900,0:50:07.790 mentioned RBI is the raise of Bank of 0:50:04.890,0:50:11.190 India it's the central bank is the say 0:50:07.790,0:50:13.500 okay you mentioned that about three 0:50:11.190,0:50:17.000 times and I didn't want to interrupt but 0:50:13.500,0:50:20.670 so it makes a lot of sense now 0:50:17.000,0:50:22.940 sorry I didn't get that I said that I'm 0:50:20.670,0:50:26.900 happy about the clarification 0:50:22.940,0:50:28.440 okay also I wanted to ask you about 0:50:26.900,0:50:31.380 politician view 0:50:28.440,0:50:35.220 or statements about Bitcoin if you had 0:50:31.380,0:50:39.480 any if you had any kind of means being 0:50:35.220,0:50:42.410 spread across the media no there hasn't 0:50:39.480,0:50:45.540 been much voice from the politicians 0:50:42.410,0:50:48.930 even from the central bankers RBI 0:50:45.540,0:50:52.290 governors and all those people they they 0:50:48.930,0:50:54.510 kind of have this IR like Lisa and they 0:50:52.290,0:50:57.630 kind of have this policy of not to talk 0:50:54.510,0:50:59.100 about this thing much in public and most 0:50:57.630,0:51:02.910 of the time when there has been 0:50:59.100,0:51:04.740 instances of reporters asking question 0:51:02.910,0:51:07.440 about these things they they seem to 0:51:04.740,0:51:10.290 wave off the issue as much as they can 0:51:07.440,0:51:12.960 but what happened I think this month or 0:51:10.290,0:51:15.720 last month I think this month there was 0:51:12.960,0:51:19.350 an interview where our to government 0:51:15.720,0:51:21.800 officials came into a local news channel 0:51:19.350,0:51:24.930 news channel and there were another 0:51:21.800,0:51:26.880 block chain business PR person also 0:51:24.930,0:51:28.800 there and they were having this nice 0:51:26.880,0:51:32.490 conversation of how the regulatory 0:51:28.800,0:51:34.890 situations can go along or can form and 0:51:32.490,0:51:36.980 how can learn from other countries what 0:51:34.890,0:51:39.840 they are doing so what was the 0:51:36.980,0:51:43.170 interesting thing I noticed in their 0:51:39.840,0:51:46.050 words is they are much more lenient no 0:51:43.170,0:51:48.060 they are not completely dismissive of it 0:51:46.050,0:51:51.030 because they know that being completely 0:51:48.060,0:51:53.730 dismissive doesn't work anymore but also 0:51:51.030,0:51:56.490 what they are trying to do is they are 0:51:53.730,0:52:00.120 trying to raise some ethical questions 0:51:56.490,0:52:02.730 about this kind of currencies suppose a 0:52:00.120,0:52:04.920 Bitcoin or private privacy coins like 0:52:02.730,0:52:06.390 Mona Rosie cash or something so what 0:52:04.920,0:52:08.460 they are saying is like these are the 0:52:06.390,0:52:10.620 coins that are being used by criminals 0:52:08.460,0:52:13.440 these are the coins that are misused by 0:52:10.620,0:52:16.140 money laundering yeah they are good for 0:52:13.440,0:52:18.960 monetary policies they can retain value 0:52:16.140,0:52:22.200 they are a good store of value but as a 0:52:18.960,0:52:24.960 responsible citizen do you really want 0:52:22.200,0:52:28.260 to put your value onto something which 0:52:24.960,0:52:31.740 is not completely ethical so they are 0:52:28.260,0:52:33.120 kind of pinching the sentiment in a 0:52:31.740,0:52:36.480 different way now 0:52:33.120,0:52:38.730 so instead of completely saying that 0:52:36.480,0:52:39.560 this is illegal you should not do it 0:52:38.730,0:52:42.470 they 0:52:39.560,0:52:44.660 they are more appealing for the moral 0:52:42.470,0:52:48.800 nature of individual returning to the 0:52:44.660,0:52:52.510 soul should listen to the show that it's 0:52:48.800,0:52:55.130 not actually very ethical thing to do so 0:52:52.510,0:52:56.780 that's our observation that I just made 0:52:55.130,0:52:58.100 I don't think it's much significant 0:52:56.780,0:53:00.500 because people are gonna do what they're 0:52:58.100,0:53:03.080 gonna do so it doesn't make much 0:53:00.500,0:53:06.080 difference but this is a very clear 0:53:03.080,0:53:09.340 change of their position that they have 0:53:06.080,0:53:13.160 shown I think they just shifted from 0:53:09.340,0:53:16.820 angle to bar gain in that five stages of 0:53:13.160,0:53:18.950 grief and so that was interesting yeah 0:53:16.820,0:53:21.620 it is fascinating but because usually 0:53:18.950,0:53:24.830 they make a pill to their power and they 0:53:21.620,0:53:28.520 say we tell you to not do it and you're 0:53:24.830,0:53:31.160 going to get punished by law yeah yeah 0:53:28.520,0:53:34.010 the change that stand from appeal to 0:53:31.160,0:53:35.840 individual ethics now because they know 0:53:34.010,0:53:38.360 that their power cannot stop this thing 0:53:35.840,0:53:43.010 this will try to appeal to religion in 0:53:38.360,0:53:44.840 any way no not necessarily right now not 0:53:43.010,0:53:46.970 necessarily right now me I don't think 0:53:44.840,0:53:52.000 the government official will go that far 0:53:46.970,0:53:55.070 to have religion religious ethics 0:53:52.000,0:53:56.990 imposed on using such kind of monetary 0:53:55.070,0:54:02.000 systems because that will be ridiculed 0:53:56.990,0:54:06.740 every like immediately by the community 0:54:02.000,0:54:09.980 or by the normal people because the 0:54:06.740,0:54:11.630 religious decorous works in the 0:54:09.980,0:54:13.940 subconscious of human culture but 0:54:11.630,0:54:15.740 doesn't work in the food front of 0:54:13.940,0:54:18.740 government power structures and 0:54:15.740,0:54:21.710 businesses and and the economic policies 0:54:18.740,0:54:23.360 and all so they haven't made any kind of 0:54:21.710,0:54:24.920 statements like that and I don't think 0:54:23.360,0:54:26.720 they will be maybe they will be making 0:54:24.920,0:54:30.500 any kind of stick the negatives that 0:54:26.720,0:54:33.560 that's very good actually as being able 0:54:30.500,0:54:36.860 to separate between religious beliefs 0:54:33.560,0:54:39.860 and the state is there step forwards in 0:54:36.860,0:54:43.040 terms of having a modern state and being 0:54:39.860,0:54:45.770 able to do politics at scale the most 0:54:43.040,0:54:49.160 just addressing a small or maybe a 0:54:45.770,0:54:51.380 majority of religious people is 0:54:49.160,0:54:52.750 something similar happening in Arabic 0:54:51.380,0:54:56.950 states where they were 0:54:52.750,0:54:59.950 reluctance to use Bitcoin maybe in the 0:54:56.950,0:55:02.170 morning they have a term for Bitcoin 0:54:59.950,0:55:06.490 they call it Haram money or something 0:55:02.170,0:55:10.210 like that because it means that it's so 0:55:06.490,0:55:11.560 this kind of this kind of things 0:55:10.210,0:55:14.470 actually shows you like how much 0:55:11.560,0:55:17.710 religion and state is interlinked in 0:55:14.470,0:55:20.230 particular states so the stains were 0:55:17.710,0:55:22.780 this religion and the nations were this 0:55:20.230,0:55:25.120 religion and stage are interlinked too 0:55:22.780,0:55:27.250 much like the stage and the business the 0:55:25.120,0:55:29.980 stage and the banking sector is in 0:55:27.250,0:55:31.930 telling too much in every every nations 0:55:29.980,0:55:34.510 around the world when these kind of 0:55:31.930,0:55:37.960 things happens the state tends to appeal 0:55:34.510,0:55:40.720 for the religious ethics that people 0:55:37.960,0:55:44.050 inherently have in their subconscious in 0:55:40.720,0:55:47.290 their guts so that's a very very very 0:55:44.050,0:55:50.560 dominant pin point for them to attack at 0:55:47.290,0:55:52.570 and you will be able to see this kind of 0:55:50.560,0:55:54.580 things happening in other progressive 0:55:52.570,0:55:56.620 countries where they have a complete 0:55:54.580,0:55:58.690 separation between the religious and the 0:55:56.620,0:56:00.550 religion and the state so that's a good 0:55:58.690,0:56:02.380 thing for a progressive society as you 0:56:00.550,0:56:05.290 have correctly pointed out it makes the 0:56:02.380,0:56:08.620 politics and to scale up for the society 0:56:05.290,0:56:11.020 that it needs well in this part of the 0:56:08.620,0:56:14.260 world it just happens that we saw in 0:56:11.020,0:56:18.220 Poland how they managed to put the 0:56:14.260,0:56:21.120 cattle II belief and religion into their 0:56:18.220,0:56:23.590 constitution and we also had a very 0:56:21.120,0:56:25.390 extremist religious group which was 0:56:23.590,0:56:27.460 trying to impose their agenda to the 0:56:25.390,0:56:29.110 extent that we were supposed to write 0:56:27.460,0:56:32.530 into the Constitution that we are 0:56:29.110,0:56:35.320 Christians and return to a set of norms 0:56:32.530,0:56:41.320 that are very traditional and very 19th 0:56:35.320,0:56:43.270 century before fascism that just one 0:56:41.320,0:56:46.900 step further from there and you end up 0:56:43.270,0:56:50.400 with a fascist state well depends on how 0:56:46.900,0:56:54.010 you define fascism as there have been 0:56:50.400,0:56:57.240 links between the church and the state 0:56:54.010,0:57:01.900 before fascism was even coined as a term 0:56:57.240,0:57:06.060 I guess in our modern consciousness we 0:57:01.900,0:57:09.610 perceive a strong link between being 0:57:06.060,0:57:12.370 question fundamentally and taking your 0:57:09.610,0:57:16.720 beliefs way too far and becoming a 0:57:12.370,0:57:18.970 fascist and rejecting maybe the values 0:57:16.720,0:57:22.230 or the realities that surround you and 0:57:18.970,0:57:25.210 do not comply with what you believe 0:57:22.230,0:57:27.910 hmm no that's true and that's what I 0:57:25.210,0:57:29.980 exactly I mean by fascism it's true that 0:57:27.910,0:57:31.630 there are a lot of different terms that 0:57:29.980,0:57:34.090 you how you described as it but that's 0:57:31.630,0:57:36.820 what I had in mind because I am seeing a 0:57:34.090,0:57:40.630 very similar kind of situation happening 0:57:36.820,0:57:44.050 in India also because the present party 0:57:40.630,0:57:48.400 which is at power is kind of backed by 0:57:44.050,0:57:51.460 this religious Hindu extremism it's not 0:57:48.400,0:57:55.900 extremism per se at this moment but the 0:57:51.460,0:57:58.560 situation can get very very bad very 0:57:55.900,0:58:02.410 fast from here because that's the recipe 0:57:58.560,0:58:04.810 that you have in blink in your system in 0:58:02.410,0:58:08.290 your political structures that can very 0:58:04.810,0:58:12.460 easily morph itself into a into an 0:58:08.290,0:58:16.030 Aussie like structure so when you have 0:58:12.460,0:58:18.160 this kind of I dunno G's belief systems 0:58:16.030,0:58:20.920 engraved in your Constitution it's not 0:58:18.160,0:58:22.630 happened in India yet that far but it's 0:58:20.920,0:58:25.470 true that the political party which is 0:58:22.630,0:58:30.100 right now in power come do comes from 0:58:25.470,0:58:32.260 Hindu majority support systems but but 0:58:30.100,0:58:36.220 the problem is like when this happens 0:58:32.260,0:58:40.500 the very next step is to is basically 0:58:36.220,0:58:43.060 seclusions and mass riot and all kind of 0:58:40.500,0:58:45.220 chaos that happens to the society 0:58:43.060,0:58:46.930 because one part of the group that 0:58:45.220,0:58:48.940 believes that they have the power and 0:58:46.930,0:58:52.780 they rightly have the power the believes 0:58:48.940,0:58:56.860 that they have a higher high they have a 0:58:52.780,0:58:59.500 higher definition of morality than other 0:58:56.860,0:59:00.910 groups that have these groups are not 0:58:59.500,0:59:04.450 moral and that's a very dangerous 0:59:00.910,0:59:07.390 situation let's get something more 0:59:04.450,0:59:10.060 practical and which is closer to the 0:59:07.390,0:59:12.910 topic that we have surrounding Bitcoin 0:59:10.060,0:59:16.840 and let's imagine that right now I 0:59:12.910,0:59:18.460 travel to India and I lose everything I 0:59:16.840,0:59:21.190 lose my passport I 0:59:18.460,0:59:24.369 was my money and all I have is maybe a 0:59:21.190,0:59:28.150 cell phone with some Bitcoin in it will 0:59:24.369,0:59:30.910 I be able to survive not necessarily not 0:59:28.150,0:59:32.830 necessarily you you have to convert it 0:59:30.910,0:59:36.070 some way to fear because there is nobody 0:59:32.830,0:59:39.640 who accepts Bitcoin as a payment for 0:59:36.070,0:59:41.410 goods and services in India yet so at 0:59:39.640,0:59:44.020 this moment what you need to do is you 0:59:41.410,0:59:46.480 have to have some form of way to get 0:59:44.020,0:59:48.970 that converted into fear so now if you 0:59:46.480,0:59:50.560 don't have a banking account right in 0:59:48.970,0:59:52.630 the country if you come out from 0:59:50.560,0:59:54.700 somewhere else you have people have no 0:59:52.630,0:59:57.010 banking accounts so you cannot have a 0:59:54.700,0:59:59.710 bank transfer so most of the people to 0:59:57.010,1:00:03.010 peer exchanges that are working in India 0:59:59.710,1:00:06.609 who happens to bank transverses and I am 1:00:03.010,1:00:08.950 not aware of any OTC desk that is a 1:00:06.609,1:00:12.849 place right now where you can buy 1:00:08.950,1:00:15.400 Bitcoin from cash and because the moment 1:00:12.849,1:00:16.660 you try to do something like that the 1:00:15.400,1:00:19.839 government will come and shut you down 1:00:16.660,1:00:22.780 and put you into change so it will be 1:00:19.839,1:00:25.720 very difficult to survive on Bitcoin if 1:00:22.780,1:00:27.490 you have no means to convert it into 1:00:25.720,1:00:30.190 fear so what you can do is you can call 1:00:27.490,1:00:32.230 up your friend you can tell that like I 1:00:30.190,1:00:35.230 want to use your bank account so you 1:00:32.230,1:00:38.440 send that money to an exchange guy you 1:00:35.230,1:00:39.160 go to an exchange like local bitcoins or 1:00:38.440,1:00:41.589 adenoidal 1:00:39.160,1:00:43.599 or mosaics or there are many of these 1:00:41.589,1:00:45.640 such things you can go there and you 1:00:43.599,1:00:47.080 meet a transaction with somebody else 1:00:45.640,1:00:48.550 you sell those bill go and get the 1:00:47.080,1:00:50.200 phenotype your friends account and then 1:00:48.550,1:00:52.510 friend can cash it out and hand it over 1:00:50.200,1:00:56.460 to you you can do that way but not 1:00:52.510,1:00:59.619 directly but let's forget about this 1:00:56.460,1:01:02.740 appeal to a third party which is either 1:00:59.619,1:01:05.140 institutional or commercial when you use 1:01:02.740,1:01:07.570 the service and let's say that I go to 1:01:05.140,1:01:10.060 the merchants directly and I tell them 1:01:07.570,1:01:12.310 how about you take Bitcoin as a form of 1:01:10.060,1:01:14.890 payment you think there are any chances 1:01:12.310,1:01:17.140 of persuading them because they know 1:01:14.890,1:01:20.380 Bitcoin and they understand that it has 1:01:17.140,1:01:22.300 value they do but they do heart of 1:01:20.380,1:01:26.120 Bitcoin they understand it has a value 1:01:22.300,1:01:28.100 but they don't know how to use it they 1:01:26.120,1:01:29.840 they do not have an exchange account 1:01:28.100,1:01:32.510 necessarily because if you go to the 1:01:29.840,1:01:34.310 next store grocery store they will not 1:01:32.510,1:01:36.290 have an exchange account because they 1:01:34.310,1:01:37.790 have bigger problem to solve in their 1:01:36.290,1:01:40.790 life than to speculate on 1:01:37.790,1:01:42.410 cryptocurrencies so they even if they 1:01:40.790,1:01:44.390 heard about Bitcoin they will not be 1:01:42.410,1:01:46.160 able to exchange accept it because they 1:01:44.390,1:01:49.130 don't have the required infrastructure 1:01:46.160,1:01:51.590 at place so the only thing that they 1:01:49.130,1:01:53.840 need to have an access is is just a 1:01:51.590,1:01:55.400 computer running abhi TCP server so 1:01:53.840,1:01:56.840 that's all they need to know that that's 1:01:55.400,1:02:00.770 all then you could have but they don't 1:01:56.840,1:02:03.140 know that they need to do this in order 1:02:00.770,1:02:05.930 to accept Bitcoin or they don't even 1:02:03.140,1:02:10.490 know that why they should accept Bitcoin 1:02:05.930,1:02:12.620 because the the me either the prevent 1:02:10.490,1:02:14.690 ender that is being transferred through 1:02:12.620,1:02:16.520 the mainstream media even though the 1:02:14.690,1:02:17.900 government is not directly saying it the 1:02:16.520,1:02:19.610 mainstream media is watching the 1:02:17.900,1:02:21.290 government statement and producing in 1:02:19.610,1:02:23.390 front of public in such a way that the 1:02:21.290,1:02:27.110 public feels that bitcoin is right now 1:02:23.390,1:02:29.930 something illegal so that's another 1:02:27.110,1:02:32.300 thing that the community is trying to 1:02:29.930,1:02:34.100 fight off very hard the government never 1:02:32.300,1:02:37.280 said it's illegal they just say their 1:02:34.100,1:02:40.850 banks do not do not to be a part of that 1:02:37.280,1:02:43.190 kind of exchange so but the but the 1:02:40.850,1:02:45.410 translation of that statement in front 1:02:43.190,1:02:47.950 of the common people is that bitcoin is 1:02:45.410,1:02:50.270 something illegal so if you try to 1:02:47.950,1:02:56.360 persuade someone in a grocery store 1:02:50.270,1:02:58.580 owner as a accept Bitcoin as a exchange 1:02:56.360,1:02:59.390 of goods and service he might have heard 1:02:58.580,1:03:01.280 about Bitcoin 1:02:59.390,1:03:03.200 he might have know that it is going 1:03:01.280,1:03:05.390 value but in his subconscious you also 1:03:03.200,1:03:08.720 miss consciousness he also knows that 1:03:05.390,1:03:10.730 it's something illegal so probability is 1:03:08.720,1:03:15.770 that he will answer you with early 1:03:10.730,1:03:18.140 sounding no now it makes sense as you 1:03:15.770,1:03:20.420 have fiscal authorities and you have 1:03:18.140,1:03:22.730 people who check your supply of goods 1:03:20.420,1:03:25.280 and if they discover that they have 1:03:22.730,1:03:29.300 given something away and there is no way 1:03:25.280,1:03:31.640 for them to prove that they have taken 1:03:29.300,1:03:35.870 any form of money then they can get 1:03:31.640,1:03:37.610 accused of stealing yeah no they can get 1:03:35.870,1:03:39.170 into a lot of trouble by doing that so 1:03:37.610,1:03:40.820 even if they want to do that they 1:03:39.170,1:03:44.870 they might not want to take that extra 1:03:40.820,1:03:47.030 added risk that comes with that baby it 1:03:44.870,1:03:49.670 makes sense is there any piece of 1:03:47.030,1:03:53.540 legislation in India which specifically 1:03:49.670,1:03:55.610 mentions Bitcoin right now it's not 1:03:53.540,1:03:58.370 right not not right now they're in the 1:03:55.610,1:03:59.990 process of forming such revolutions but 1:03:58.370,1:04:02.510 they have been in the process of running 1:03:59.990,1:04:04.640 such regulation for the last three four 1:04:02.510,1:04:06.710 years they haven't been able to come up 1:04:04.640,1:04:10.810 with anything concrete or anything 1:04:06.710,1:04:15.050 documented few weeks back there was this 1:04:10.810,1:04:17.570 leaked document a draft from the 1:04:15.050,1:04:20.180 committee that has been formed to make a 1:04:17.570,1:04:21.980 legislation or proper regulation on 1:04:20.180,1:04:24.380 cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin by the 1:04:21.980,1:04:27.200 Supreme Court there was some liquid 1:04:24.380,1:04:32.900 document that seems to suggest that this 1:04:27.200,1:04:34.910 committee is suggesting the Congress to 1:04:32.900,1:04:38.180 pass a bill that will make Bitcoin 1:04:34.910,1:04:41.480 illegal that means dealing selling 1:04:38.180,1:04:45.350 buying and even holding Bitcoin can put 1:04:41.480,1:04:48.950 you in jail for 10 years so that's a 1:04:45.350,1:04:50.600 very scary situation and a lot of talk 1:04:48.950,1:04:52.640 has been happened over that and it 1:04:50.600,1:04:56.600 turned out that it was just a draft bill 1:04:52.640,1:05:00.830 so even if the bill does include a 1:04:56.600,1:05:03.370 clause like that it seems unlikely to me 1:05:00.830,1:05:06.200 that it will actually get implemented 1:05:03.370,1:05:08.330 and right now that so many things are 1:05:06.200,1:05:10.370 happening on this blockchain and Dale 1:05:08.330,1:05:12.890 teas and other cryptocurrency stores 1:05:10.370,1:05:16.460 around the space yeah that's very 1:05:12.890,1:05:19.070 interesting as most European countries 1:05:16.460,1:05:22.640 already have some kind of regulations in 1:05:19.070,1:05:24.830 terms of making sure that you pay taxes 1:05:22.640,1:05:29.270 for the Bitcoin that you comforted and 1:05:24.830,1:05:31.520 Sofia now we don't have anything right 1:05:29.270,1:05:33.500 now in India like that it will be very 1:05:31.520,1:05:34.820 necessary for the community to even 1:05:33.500,1:05:37.370 properly function there are a lot of 1:05:34.820,1:05:40.040 businesses in this market lots of 1:05:37.370,1:05:41.930 exchanges who are shutting down their 1:05:40.040,1:05:43.970 shop just because this kind of 1:05:41.930,1:05:46.400 regulatory issues so the regulatory 1:05:43.970,1:05:48.349 situation in India is a very obscure 1:05:46.400,1:05:51.259 right now it's not at all clear No 1:05:48.349,1:05:53.269 has any clue how they are going to 1:05:51.259,1:05:55.779 behave what they are going to consider 1:05:53.269,1:05:58.700 and it's very difficult for the 1:05:55.779,1:06:00.259 entrepreneurs to make business in these 1:05:58.700,1:06:02.059 kind of situations and that's what we 1:06:00.259,1:06:04.339 are seeing here a lot of people are 1:06:02.059,1:06:09.499 closing shop they just cannot sustain 1:06:04.339,1:06:12.769 this uncertainty I was thinking right 1:06:09.499,1:06:17.869 now at a comparison with China which is 1:06:12.769,1:06:19.759 also populous country and they had many 1:06:17.869,1:06:22.759 instances in which they announced that 1:06:19.759,1:06:24.650 they were banning Bitcoin but at the 1:06:22.759,1:06:28.190 same time they had these mining raids 1:06:24.650,1:06:31.819 that were running are you aware of any 1:06:28.190,1:06:32.690 mining going on in India I'm not 1:06:31.819,1:06:36.619 particularly 1:06:32.690,1:06:38.989 I haven't been came across anybody 1:06:36.619,1:06:42.619 saying any kind of mining activity going 1:06:38.989,1:06:44.989 anywhere in India I am NOT very sure 1:06:42.619,1:06:47.380 about the mining profit loss 1:06:44.989,1:06:49.759 calculations regarding the current 1:06:47.380,1:06:51.739 electricity price in most of the cities 1:06:49.759,1:06:53.960 and around the villages of India I'd I'm 1:06:51.739,1:06:55.460 not sure how it turns out but it seems 1:06:53.960,1:06:59.180 to me there is not much mining 1:06:55.460,1:07:02.059 activities happening in India and if it 1:06:59.180,1:07:03.829 has been happening and I think the 1:07:02.059,1:07:06.559 government would have already stopped it 1:07:03.829,1:07:08.690 by now because they seems to be keen on 1:07:06.559,1:07:11.269 stopping all these kind of activities 1:07:08.690,1:07:13.519 that are happening until they manage to 1:07:11.269,1:07:15.259 come up with a proper regulations and 1:07:13.519,1:07:16.329 proper decision how they are going to 1:07:15.259,1:07:19.249 handle this 1:07:16.329,1:07:19.789 let's say that India bans Bitcoin 1:07:19.249,1:07:22.880 tomorrow 1:07:19.789,1:07:27.079 is there any way for you to appeal to 1:07:22.880,1:07:31.279 that political process and maybe contact 1:07:27.079,1:07:34.819 your representatives and help to draft a 1:07:31.279,1:07:39.349 better bill which favors the bitcoiners 1:07:34.819,1:07:42.979 in your country there is no structured 1:07:39.349,1:07:45.319 process for that I think a lot of people 1:07:42.979,1:07:48.489 will do that and a lot of people will 1:07:45.319,1:07:51.460 come out and put their poles together to 1:07:48.489,1:07:52.640 to import cents in this kind of 1:07:51.460,1:07:55.069 ridiculous 1:07:52.640,1:07:56.930 abandon if that happens a part of the 1:07:55.069,1:07:58.570 very obvious things that they can try to 1:07:56.930,1:08:00.700 import into the government 1:07:58.570,1:08:03.790 that this kind of banning doesn't work 1:08:00.700,1:08:06.670 if you try to ban it the entire system 1:08:03.790,1:08:08.710 will still exist but it will only exist 1:08:06.670,1:08:10.840 in the dark mark and the government 1:08:08.710,1:08:13.480 knows that indeed this is the thing 1:08:10.840,1:08:16.540 about India India has a very huge dark 1:08:13.480,1:08:19.060 mud it has all sorts of illegal market 1:08:16.540,1:08:21.880 in every cities in every village and you 1:08:19.060,1:08:24.400 can get anything in anywhere if you pay 1:08:21.880,1:08:26.920 the price for it so the dark matter the 1:08:24.400,1:08:29.890 black market problem is very big in 1:08:26.920,1:08:32.080 India and it's kind of a bigger part of 1:08:29.890,1:08:33.850 the economy in many places where the 1:08:32.080,1:08:35.380 white market is the smaller one and the 1:08:33.850,1:08:39.760 black market is the actual market 1:08:35.380,1:08:42.310 pairing go to buy stuff so as this kind 1:08:39.760,1:08:44.680 of markets exist very freely and very 1:08:42.310,1:08:47.049 fluently in India it's it will become 1:08:44.680,1:08:48.880 very difficult for government to 1:08:47.049,1:08:51.060 implement this kind of bail because the 1:08:48.880,1:08:54.880 moment this kind of band will happen 1:08:51.060,1:08:59.589 what people will start doing is it's the 1:08:54.880,1:09:02.430 same please make you TC cash cash 1:08:59.589,1:09:05.680 transaction test on ramps for Bitcoin in 1:09:02.430,1:09:07.480 corners of markets like black alleys or 1:09:05.680,1:09:08.980 something like that and these kind of 1:09:07.480,1:09:12.010 things will keep on popping popping up 1:09:08.980,1:09:15.010 so the government needs to know that if 1:09:12.010,1:09:17.470 they try to go to that path what will 1:09:15.010,1:09:20.440 happen is they will not be able to stop 1:09:17.470,1:09:23.140 it but the entire economy will go into 1:09:20.440,1:09:25.180 the black market and they cannot they do 1:09:23.140,1:09:27.370 they already cannot stop the black 1:09:25.180,1:09:29.319 market so they all they can't stop black 1:09:27.370,1:09:32.770 well bitcoin in black markets that's 1:09:29.319,1:09:36.190 even a more difficult problem so I think 1:09:32.770,1:09:40.150 if the government goes does go around 1:09:36.190,1:09:43.990 this part and there there are people who 1:09:40.150,1:09:47.350 will come forward even yeah I would come 1:09:43.990,1:09:49.630 forward and try to import sense into 1:09:47.350,1:09:51.609 this legislation that this is not the 1:09:49.630,1:09:54.570 way you should handle it because it will 1:09:51.609,1:09:56.920 only make the situation worse 1:09:54.570,1:09:59.920 so right now 1:09:56.920,1:10:02.920 considering your views you're basically 1:09:59.920,1:10:05.740 a red pillar it's too late for you to 1:10:02.920,1:10:09.760 get back to that old beliefs that used 1:10:05.740,1:10:11.409 to have and if the situation in India 1:10:09.760,1:10:14.590 was to get very bad and 1:10:11.409,1:10:17.380 you you basically had no way to use your 1:10:14.590,1:10:24.400 bitcoins but you consider leaving your 1:10:17.380,1:10:26.590 home country probably it depends on a 1:10:24.400,1:10:28.709 lot of situations leaving your home 1:10:26.590,1:10:33.519 country is a very difficult part and 1:10:28.709,1:10:36.099 because in India we we live in these 1:10:33.519,1:10:38.619 kind of social structures where you live 1:10:36.099,1:10:40.959 close nearby to your parents in leave 1:10:38.619,1:10:43.389 tools nearby to your daily things you 1:10:40.959,1:10:45.249 have this kind of social culture around 1:10:43.389,1:10:47.949 you in localities in one most to move 1:10:45.249,1:10:52.329 people around you so it's very difficult 1:10:47.949,1:10:56.019 to save all this kind of ties and leave 1:10:52.329,1:10:59.349 to another country just because they 1:10:56.019,1:11:03.400 don't let you use Bitcoin it's it's not 1:10:59.349,1:11:05.499 a good enough barking for me it says 1:11:03.400,1:11:09.010 because there are other important stuffs 1:11:05.499,1:11:13.780 in my life that I will I will tend to 1:11:09.010,1:11:15.280 attain to then then putting my 1:11:13.780,1:11:18.459 priorities on Bitcoin Bitcoin is 1:11:15.280,1:11:20.949 important for me and I would love to 1:11:18.459,1:11:24.039 have my savings in bitcoins and I might 1:11:20.949,1:11:26.349 not love to use at the store but if I if 1:11:24.039,1:11:29.769 they have improved some kind of dance 1:11:26.349,1:11:32.019 and I cannot use Bitcoin right now that 1:11:29.769,1:11:34.300 doesn't that doesn't affect me much 1:11:32.019,1:11:36.519 because I am not using Bitcoin anyway 1:11:34.300,1:11:38.709 because there is no close to economic 1:11:36.519,1:11:44.050 going on right now with bit one and that 1:11:38.709,1:11:48.340 is one of my goal to do in this because 1:11:44.050,1:11:50.380 in a so ecosystem where I can I can have 1:11:48.340,1:11:53.889 this kind of kind of closed-loop 1:11:50.380,1:11:56.530 economies where people accepting Bitcoin 1:11:53.889,1:11:59.320 as exchange of goods and services we 1:11:56.530,1:12:01.329 don't have that right now so even the 1:11:59.320,1:12:03.309 government is not burning it I still 1:12:01.329,1:12:05.559 continues my big ones because there is 1:12:03.309,1:12:07.119 no one accepting it so it's going to 1:12:05.559,1:12:08.499 take some time to have that kind of 1:12:07.119,1:12:10.539 closed low economy but just because 1:12:08.499,1:12:13.809 government banning it I don't think I'll 1:12:10.539,1:12:16.059 be leaving my country but that's a huge 1:12:13.809,1:12:19.239 power which the government has over you 1:12:16.059,1:12:22.300 as a citizen as you just know that 1:12:19.239,1:12:23.019 you're bound to your family and your 1:12:22.300,1:12:24.650 house 1:12:23.019,1:12:27.620 so yes 1:12:24.650,1:12:29.570 in very specific terms relating to this 1:12:27.620,1:12:32.750 industry that's the central points of 1:12:29.570,1:12:34.520 failure true true very true that's the 1:12:32.750,1:12:36.560 central point of failure and that's a 1:12:34.520,1:12:39.950 dam that that's that's a very big 1:12:36.560,1:12:42.500 shackle that you have around you and the 1:12:39.950,1:12:45.230 government is kind of kit and game that 1:12:42.500,1:12:47.300 shackle to force you to do things that 1:12:45.230,1:12:50.180 you might not want to do or force you to 1:12:47.300,1:12:53.240 do things force you not to do things 1:12:50.180,1:12:56.030 that they don't subscribe to and that's 1:12:53.240,1:12:59.360 a very true problem and I don't know how 1:12:56.030,1:13:02.750 I can solve that right now I can only 1:12:59.360,1:13:06.440 hope the situation will not do much 1:13:02.750,1:13:09.050 worse because it's really very difficult 1:13:06.440,1:13:12.410 for me to go settle in different country 1:13:09.050,1:13:16.670 and severe or save or all these ties 1:13:12.410,1:13:18.860 that I have yeah that's go it's it's the 1:13:16.670,1:13:20.590 central point of failure and I'm kind of 1:13:18.860,1:13:25.460 like hoping that that central point 1:13:20.590,1:13:28.460 doesn't do something very bad now in 1:13:25.460,1:13:30.710 some cases like Venezuela there were 1:13:28.460,1:13:33.890 entire families which moved out of the 1:13:30.710,1:13:35.810 country because of Bitcoin it's not 1:13:33.890,1:13:41.510 because a Bitcoin but thanks to Bitcoin 1:13:35.810,1:13:43.370 as yes they are I think the situation in 1:13:41.510,1:13:45.320 Venezuela made people do that because 1:13:43.370,1:13:46.610 the situation is so much dire there it's 1:13:45.320,1:13:48.830 not that bad 1:13:46.610,1:13:51.080 I told you about before the currency is 1:13:48.830,1:13:55.040 kind of stable it's not completely 1:13:51.080,1:13:57.350 collapsing people still can use it as 1:13:55.040,1:14:01.460 their penis it does use it as the unit 1:13:57.350,1:14:04.190 of account and and the situation the 1:14:01.460,1:14:06.860 theater is not burning enough right now 1:14:04.190,1:14:09.320 that doesn't say that it will not burn 1:14:06.860,1:14:12.020 in some kind of future with that much 1:14:09.320,1:14:15.560 force it can burn us but it's not just 1:14:12.020,1:14:17.570 burning at that heat right now so that 1:14:15.560,1:14:19.460 the people are not screaming out of the 1:14:17.570,1:14:22.220 theater and moving out through that exit 1:14:19.460,1:14:24.410 or they are just it's just warm they are 1:14:22.220,1:14:27.770 just feeling the heat but it's not warm 1:14:24.410,1:14:31.700 enough so that to make them leave the if 1:14:27.770,1:14:34.970 that makes sense it does I mean even 1:14:31.700,1:14:36.520 when I think in my case I'm part of the 1:14:34.970,1:14:39.130 European Union 1:14:36.520,1:14:42.940 and that has both advantages and 1:14:39.130,1:14:46.270 disadvantages on one hand I am able to 1:14:42.940,1:14:47.980 leave to any country any of the 27 other 1:14:46.270,1:14:51.400 countries which are part of this 1:14:47.980,1:14:54.910 organization but at the same time we 1:14:51.400,1:14:58.420 have a legal framework which comes from 1:14:54.910,1:15:01.480 Brussels so if they decide at the 1:14:58.420,1:15:05.730 European Union level to ban Bitcoin then 1:15:01.480,1:15:09.670 it's going to be felt in all the states 1:15:05.730,1:15:12.610 so I'm thinking sometimes that the worst 1:15:09.670,1:15:16.060 that we can have in terms of political 1:15:12.610,1:15:19.930 reception hasn't happened yet and part 1:15:16.060,1:15:22.680 of the reason why I'm happy about the 1:15:19.930,1:15:26.380 developments in Bitcoin is that I see a 1:15:22.680,1:15:28.480 lot of institutional friendliness words 1:15:26.380,1:15:30.340 it I don't care much about their 1:15:28.480,1:15:32.800 adoption and how much they're buying it 1:15:30.340,1:15:36.250 and how much they invest in it but the 1:15:32.800,1:15:38.560 fact that they show interest means that 1:15:36.250,1:15:41.470 it's not going to get banned at least 1:15:38.560,1:15:43.690 not in the Western world yeah I had the 1:15:41.470,1:15:46.540 same kind of feeling here because I told 1:15:43.690,1:15:48.100 you about that interview that TV show 1:15:46.540,1:15:49.900 that happened on you show that happened 1:15:48.100,1:15:54.070 but to come to government officials were 1:15:49.900,1:15:57.490 there and the optimistic view that I 1:15:54.070,1:16:00.460 ended up and that show is that they just 1:15:57.490,1:16:02.350 shifted from anger to parking so that 1:16:00.460,1:16:05.440 means they are moving up through the 1:16:02.350,1:16:08.290 ladders of stages on graves so that 1:16:05.440,1:16:11.920 means that there is now less probability 1:16:08.290,1:16:14.290 that they will make a outright ban than 1:16:11.920,1:16:16.780 it was two three years ago two three 1:16:14.290,1:16:19.060 years ago they might have higher chance 1:16:16.780,1:16:20.560 of considering outright ban but they 1:16:19.060,1:16:22.360 just showed that they have a lower 1:16:20.560,1:16:24.730 chance of it just because showing that 1:16:22.360,1:16:28.090 they stepped up the ladder from anger to 1:16:24.730,1:16:31.060 bargain so that's a good sign also as a 1:16:28.090,1:16:34.630 politician it makes a lot more sense to 1:16:31.060,1:16:38.590 try not to divide the people and collect 1:16:34.630,1:16:42.490 taxes as opposed to instilling fear and 1:16:38.590,1:16:47.770 using making use of the force that you 1:16:42.490,1:16:49.380 have yes yes yes the biggest incentive 1:16:47.770,1:16:51.630 for a politician 1:16:49.380,1:16:53.850 politicians to ban Bitcoin is because if 1:16:51.630,1:16:55.889 they don't ban Bitcoin they have this 1:16:53.850,1:16:58.230 exchanges running and through this 1:16:55.889,1:17:00.540 exchanges they can at least collect the 1:16:58.230,1:17:03.510 taxes that they want if they ban a 1:17:00.540,1:17:05.940 Bitcoin the market immediately goes to 1:17:03.510,1:17:08.580 the black market the plan zone and they 1:17:05.940,1:17:11.340 do not explodes on anyway so they lose a 1:17:08.580,1:17:13.290 huge amount of X from the economic 1:17:11.340,1:17:16.110 activity that will be happening and they 1:17:13.290,1:17:20.010 might not want that even if they have 1:17:16.110,1:17:22.650 any kind of any any simple intelligent 1:17:20.010,1:17:24.449 politicians will decide not to bandit 1:17:22.650,1:17:26.460 when if they understand will be mostly 1:17:24.449,1:17:30.060 anything about it one and I think they 1:17:26.460,1:17:32.370 do they do a lot of blood they have been 1:17:30.060,1:17:35.190 studying a lot and that has been shown 1:17:32.370,1:17:37.679 either I have seen that in that past a 1:17:35.190,1:17:39.960 new show that happened so they know on 1:17:37.679,1:17:42.420 they understand these problems they know 1:17:39.960,1:17:45.060 that they can stop it they understand 1:17:42.420,1:17:47.670 the privacy issues they understand the 1:17:45.060,1:17:51.480 laundering issues and they are trying 1:17:47.670,1:17:54.830 really hard to come up with a sensible 1:17:51.480,1:17:57.000 way of dealing with this thing that 1:17:54.830,1:18:00.090 doesn't necessarily make the situation 1:17:57.000,1:18:02.159 immediately Wars and banning Bitcoin 1:18:00.090,1:18:04.230 outright will immediately make the 1:18:02.159,1:18:07.650 situation much much worse and I'll be 1:18:04.230,1:18:10.530 surprised if they do that but if they 1:18:07.650,1:18:14.429 shifted their position as you said from 1:18:10.530,1:18:16.860 being angry to being willing to 1:18:14.429,1:18:19.469 cooperate then there must have been some 1:18:16.860,1:18:21.360 kind of pressure coming their way there 1:18:19.469,1:18:24.870 must have been some people who tell them 1:18:21.360,1:18:29.699 you know it's a lot better to allow this 1:18:24.870,1:18:31.639 to flourish and we can collect taxes so 1:18:29.699,1:18:34.530 there must be a large community right 1:18:31.639,1:18:36.420 yeah I think there is something 1:18:34.530,1:18:39.179 interesting happening here it's not even 1:18:36.420,1:18:41.790 about the community I think many of the 1:18:39.179,1:18:44.370 politicians are waking up to this fact 1:18:41.790,1:18:47.940 that Bitcoin is a fucking good store of 1:18:44.370,1:18:50.760 value so they want to have that store of 1:18:47.940,1:18:53.610 value for themselves so they have their 1:18:50.760,1:18:55.440 inherent interest self interest not to 1:18:53.610,1:18:55.640 ban this thing because they would want 1:18:55.440,1:18:58.220 to 1:18:55.640,1:18:59.140 use this thing because it's good for 1:18:58.220,1:19:02.420 them also 1:18:59.140,1:19:05.450 we did not have this kind of awesome 1:19:02.420,1:19:06.490 store of value before bitcoins so it 1:19:05.450,1:19:09.710 makes sense 1:19:06.490,1:19:12.680 and if you know anything about Indian 1:19:09.710,1:19:15.350 politics and it scans you will see all 1:19:12.680,1:19:18.470 these politicians have huge amount of 1:19:15.350,1:19:22.130 wealth stores in foreign banks or in 1:19:18.470,1:19:24.860 underground or even as a gold as a stack 1:19:22.130,1:19:27.950 under their mattress this thing happens 1:19:24.860,1:19:31.460 and this is such a menace in India that 1:19:27.950,1:19:34.520 I think a lot of people will wake up to 1:19:31.460,1:19:36.530 this fact that the reason they were 1:19:34.520,1:19:39.230 doing this thing is because they want to 1:19:36.530,1:19:41.060 store this huge massive wealth that they 1:19:39.230,1:19:44.180 have gathered through corruptions or 1:19:41.060,1:19:46.370 through whatever ways or to whatever 1:19:44.180,1:19:48.650 other different waste they want to 1:19:46.370,1:19:51.170 retain that wealth and they want they 1:19:48.650,1:19:54.200 they don't want to not only they don't 1:19:51.170,1:19:56.180 want to tax on it they don't want it to 1:19:54.200,1:19:59.150 inflate away they don't want it to 1:19:56.180,1:20:01.130 inflate away so the thing that they do 1:19:59.150,1:20:03.740 they immediately convert it into hard 1:20:01.130,1:20:06.770 assets like real estates like good like 1:20:03.740,1:20:08.390 foreign dollars and put it into foreign 1:20:06.770,1:20:10.610 bank accounts the reason they are doing 1:20:08.390,1:20:12.920 that because they want to escape out of 1:20:10.610,1:20:14.570 the inflation whatever the small little 1:20:12.920,1:20:16.340 inflation it's not even small it's quite 1:20:14.570,1:20:17.930 big whatever the inflation that is 1:20:16.340,1:20:20.330 happening through Indian currencies they 1:20:17.930,1:20:21.860 don't they don't keep that wealth in 1:20:20.330,1:20:23.510 Indian currency they immediately convert 1:20:21.860,1:20:24.830 it the reason they convert it because 1:20:23.510,1:20:26.540 they want to store through it is going 1:20:24.830,1:20:29.600 through time and once they realize that 1:20:26.540,1:20:31.600 bitcoin is the best of all the store of 1:20:29.600,1:20:34.190 values that has that we have right now 1:20:31.600,1:20:37.310 they will have a huge amount of 1:20:34.190,1:20:39.500 self-interest to want to use Bitcoin so 1:20:37.310,1:20:41.450 I think not only there is a pressure 1:20:39.500,1:20:44.000 from the community which is also there 1:20:41.450,1:20:45.860 as lots of businesses are trying to make 1:20:44.000,1:20:47.930 and they are also arguing like if you 1:20:45.860,1:20:49.250 try to bear if you are in the government 1:20:47.930,1:20:51.200 that if you try to ban it what will 1:20:49.250,1:20:53.000 happen is we will all lose all these 1:20:51.200,1:20:55.250 economic activities and we lose out if 1:20:53.000,1:20:57.470 the phone for forefront of this emerging 1:20:55.250,1:20:59.510 technology well that is also happening I 1:20:57.470,1:21:01.010 think also the politicians are waking up 1:20:59.510,1:21:03.440 to this fact that this is a very good 1:21:01.010,1:21:06.190 store of value for a malls and that's 1:21:03.440,1:21:09.170 also a reason that they will not bear it 1:21:06.190,1:21:11.719 so we have here another 1:21:09.170,1:21:15.560 instance where the situation is solved 1:21:11.719,1:21:18.980 by human greed and maybe it's part of 1:21:15.560,1:21:23.690 the solution an extension of the 1:21:18.980,1:21:26.060 Byzantine generals problem this is what 1:21:23.690,1:21:28.699 blew my mind when I first saw Bitcoin in 1:21:26.060,1:21:31.730 first two days the way he solves that 1:21:28.699,1:21:35.210 age-old problem of order without 1:21:31.730,1:21:38.660 structure is he use our incentive 1:21:35.210,1:21:42.110 mechanism to model a design that works 1:21:38.660,1:21:44.750 on human greed the order emerges out of 1:21:42.110,1:21:47.150 human greed because human are greedy 1:21:44.750,1:21:48.980 that's how that's why Bitcoin works 1:21:47.150,1:21:50.960 that's my mining works that's why you 1:21:48.980,1:21:53.510 have the longest change that's why the 1:21:50.960,1:21:56.600 system is not disintegrating itself into 1:21:53.510,1:21:59.570 chaos because humans are greedy and that 1:21:56.600,1:22:02.840 is the crucial brilliance of Satoshi 1:21:59.570,1:22:06.650 nakamoto's design that he used greed to 1:22:02.840,1:22:08.360 make order out of chaos and basically he 1:22:06.650,1:22:10.130 used human greed to create a 1:22:08.360,1:22:13.219 deterministic anarchic system and that 1:22:10.130,1:22:15.710 is just fascinating yes I guess he 1:22:13.219,1:22:19.520 understood money a lot better than most 1:22:15.710,1:22:21.560 of our economists yeah yeah it's 1:22:19.520,1:22:25.270 sometimes if sometimes blows my mind 1:22:21.560,1:22:29.120 like how can someone have did this many 1:22:25.270,1:22:31.940 ingenious idea in one single design from 1:22:29.120,1:22:35.390 all these different fields like you have 1:22:31.940,1:22:37.370 to be a very good at writing code you 1:22:35.390,1:22:39.980 have to be very good and understanding 1:22:37.370,1:22:41.719 cryptography you have to be unless very 1:22:39.980,1:22:42.920 good at understanding game theory you 1:22:41.719,1:22:45.469 will have to be very good at 1:22:42.920,1:22:48.380 understanding economics you have to be 1:22:45.469,1:22:50.840 very good at designing the entire human 1:22:48.380,1:22:53.210 psychology that should make that system 1:22:50.840,1:22:55.630 work it's just not a simple 1:22:53.210,1:22:57.590 cryptographic base a cryptographic 1:22:55.630,1:23:00.320 structure it's not just a simple 1:22:57.590,1:23:04.580 computer code it's a huge massive 1:23:00.320,1:23:06.679 incentive human social engineered thingy 1:23:04.580,1:23:09.830 I don't even know how to describe it and 1:23:06.679,1:23:11.929 it just works and it works because of 1:23:09.830,1:23:14.120 human greed and it's it's just so 1:23:11.929,1:23:16.309 fascinating I sometimes think that it 1:23:14.120,1:23:19.579 cannot be just one people 1:23:16.309,1:23:21.920 I have hard time believing that all of 1:23:19.579,1:23:24.409 this came out just one single mind I 1:23:21.920,1:23:27.559 think it was a group of people who 1:23:24.409,1:23:30.739 brainstormed two years to finally come 1:23:27.559,1:23:33.550 out with a design that can work well if 1:23:30.739,1:23:36.409 you look at the history of inventions 1:23:33.550,1:23:39.829 dealing with digital cash you start with 1:23:36.409,1:23:42.889 David Tom who had cash and then you get 1:23:39.829,1:23:44.900 your way die and you get to add them 1:23:42.889,1:23:49.579 back who try to find a way to prevent 1:23:44.900,1:23:52.670 spam by creating hashing cycles from 1:23:49.579,1:23:53.440 your processor and then you get to how 1:23:52.670,1:23:56.800 finis 1:23:53.440,1:23:59.480 and also an X evoke who had bit golden 1:23:56.800,1:24:02.000 ego Lewis the last alastu workable 1:23:59.480,1:24:04.670 iteration that happened before VidCon it 1:24:02.000,1:24:09.679 was in 2005 I think I think Bitcoin 1:24:04.670,1:24:12.170 happened after equal stop right but ego 1:24:09.679,1:24:14.389 had the central points of failure yes 1:24:12.170,1:24:16.250 yes yes most of them have the central 1:24:14.389,1:24:17.869 point of failure this did I am going to 1:24:16.250,1:24:20.510 expert on this thing because there are 1:24:17.869,1:24:23.840 lots of people who studied this thing a 1:24:20.510,1:24:27.199 lot but what I seem to understand that 1:24:23.840,1:24:31.250 the crucial difference between red coin 1:24:27.199,1:24:36.579 and all other previous iterations that 1:24:31.250,1:24:39.440 happened is this this closed loop of 1:24:36.579,1:24:43.039 incentive structures that is self 1:24:39.440,1:24:45.739 sufficient that grows on its own because 1:24:43.039,1:24:48.619 if you look at the design Satoshi did 1:24:45.739,1:24:51.349 not invent any of the primitives all the 1:24:48.619,1:24:53.150 primitives are already there many of the 1:24:51.349,1:24:55.190 crucial primitives like the proof of 1:24:53.150,1:24:58.010 work like the blockchain marshal trees 1:24:55.190,1:25:00.980 cryptographic hashes digital signatures 1:24:58.010,1:25:03.020 all these things exist for 20 years so 1:25:00.980,1:25:05.960 so - she didn't invent any of this 1:25:03.020,1:25:08.750 what you did is combining all these 1:25:05.960,1:25:11.780 primitives in such a way that you have 1:25:08.750,1:25:14.449 an incentive structure which completes a 1:25:11.780,1:25:17.570 loop on its it's a loop on itself and 1:25:14.449,1:25:20.329 because it completes this loop on itself 1:25:17.570,1:25:22.670 it has this self-sustaining this 1:25:20.329,1:25:25.869 periodic growth almost like as a 1:25:22.670,1:25:28.670 biological form and it grows on its own 1:25:25.869,1:25:29.300 so that was the crucial key point of 1:25:28.670,1:25:31.429 butuan 1:25:29.300,1:25:36.199 none of the previous iteration had this 1:25:31.429,1:25:39.170 thing so yeah that's it that was a very 1:25:36.199,1:25:41.780 nice description Raj I feel like I 1:25:39.170,1:25:43.760 couldn't have said it any better than 1:25:41.780,1:25:47.320 you did and that comparison where the 1:25:43.760,1:25:51.349 biological being actually blew my mind 1:25:47.320,1:25:55.159 yeah this is another thing that blew my 1:25:51.349,1:25:56.840 mind in in I think third or fourth month 1:25:55.159,1:25:58.309 of my Bitcoin study when I finally 1:25:56.840,1:26:01.880 understood that this is a biological 1:25:58.309,1:26:04.610 thing the reason I it blew my mind 1:26:01.880,1:26:08.329 because two years before that I read 1:26:04.610,1:26:11.750 Richard Dawkins selfish gene and in that 1:26:08.329,1:26:15.349 book and the last chapter he Richard 1:26:11.750,1:26:19.520 Dawkins talks about ideas how ideas are 1:26:15.349,1:26:22.400 very similar to genes and ideas spread 1:26:19.520,1:26:25.610 among the society through minds to minds 1:26:22.400,1:26:28.969 just like genes spread among the species 1:26:25.610,1:26:31.730 and the ideas which are sustainable 1:26:28.969,1:26:35.030 which which survives are the one that 1:26:31.730,1:26:37.250 ideas that moves the society so it's 1:26:35.030,1:26:39.860 like a biological evolution that I the 1:26:37.250,1:26:42.139 only idea that gets morphed into the 1:26:39.860,1:26:45.349 society at the idea which is sustainable 1:26:42.139,1:26:47.420 on its on its own but we have all these 1:26:45.349,1:26:49.280 different kinds of iterations random 1:26:47.420,1:26:50.900 iterations of ideas just like we have 1:26:49.280,1:26:54.079 all this different kind of random 1:26:50.900,1:26:56.119 iterations in genes so mutations happens 1:26:54.079,1:26:59.150 in genes but all mutations doesn't stay 1:26:56.119,1:27:02.780 the only mutations stays which makes the 1:26:59.150,1:27:04.699 species better as a whole so the same 1:27:02.780,1:27:05.780 kind of thing he extended that and that 1:27:04.699,1:27:08.869 was fascinating to me 1:27:05.780,1:27:10.639 and this clicked two years later when I 1:27:08.869,1:27:13.550 first understood Bitcoin as a biological 1:27:10.639,1:27:16.849 organism and this blew my mind and I 1:27:13.550,1:27:19.610 thought this is exactly working like a 1:27:16.849,1:27:22.969 virus it's like an idea virus spreading 1:27:19.610,1:27:24.770 in the world and it's going and it has 1:27:22.969,1:27:27.050 all the characteristics of virus growth 1:27:24.770,1:27:29.179 it's growing exponentially 1:27:27.050,1:27:31.520 it's growing through waves of adoptions 1:27:29.179,1:27:33.199 and it just keeps on going and going and 1:27:31.520,1:27:35.780 going and going because it has this 1:27:33.199,1:27:38.599 self-fulfilling incentive structural 1:27:35.780,1:27:41.270 loop in in billions in in its design and 1:27:38.599,1:27:42.500 so yeah it is very much like a 1:27:41.270,1:27:44.989 biological or 1:27:42.500,1:27:48.770 it's very much like an idea virus that 1:27:44.989,1:27:51.590 grows through the society and I couldn't 1:27:48.770,1:27:54.080 even go a little bit farther and I think 1:27:51.590,1:27:56.690 I extend it like it's almost like the 1:27:54.080,1:27:59.360 t-virus have you send resident evil 1:27:56.690,1:28:01.190 so English in resident evil you have 1:27:59.360,1:28:03.410 this deep concept of the virus but the 1:28:01.190,1:28:05.720 virus is like a virus that when you get 1:28:03.410,1:28:07.489 affected you become a zombie so the next 1:28:05.720,1:28:09.680 thing you want to do after becoming 1:28:07.489,1:28:11.570 zombie is bite other people because the 1:28:09.680,1:28:13.520 t-virus wants to spread to other people 1:28:11.570,1:28:16.130 so this is the same thing exactly 1:28:13.520,1:28:17.989 happens here if you if you are into 1:28:16.130,1:28:19.820 Bitcoin the next thing you want to do is 1:28:17.989,1:28:21.560 tell people about Bitcoin and you want 1:28:19.820,1:28:25.460 to spread this idea from one mind to 1:28:21.560,1:28:28.100 another you almost have your inherent 1:28:25.460,1:28:31.160 need of doing that and that is so weird 1:28:28.100,1:28:34.610 and and that is exactly like a idea 1:28:31.160,1:28:37.340 virus work were you able to be an 1:28:34.610,1:28:39.739 advocate of Bitcoin to your peers your 1:28:37.340,1:28:43.760 families your friends ha ha that's what 1:28:39.739,1:28:48.110 I've been trying to do for last 7 or 8 1:28:43.760,1:28:49.850 months almost IIIi think of it almost 1:28:48.110,1:28:52.580 like a exercise it's a really difficult 1:28:49.850,1:28:55.310 thing to do it's it's amazingly 1:28:52.580,1:28:58.430 difficult to explain people to explain 1:28:55.310,1:29:01.360 Bitcoin to people so what I have been 1:28:58.430,1:29:04.670 trying to do is I have been catching 1:29:01.360,1:29:06.980 students in universities and trying to 1:29:04.670,1:29:11.510 have conversations with them on Bitcoin 1:29:06.980,1:29:14.900 and to my surprise I have successfully 1:29:11.510,1:29:17.630 in rocktron netted some people into this 1:29:14.900,1:29:19.820 Bitcoin zombie and I have this group of 1:29:17.630,1:29:24.350 people right now working in my local 1:29:19.820,1:29:26.660 universities who are who are amazingly 1:29:24.350,1:29:30.050 fascinated by this idea they just needed 1:29:26.660,1:29:32.000 the click to happen and the Clint is 1:29:30.050,1:29:34.670 very difficult because the click happens 1:29:32.000,1:29:36.560 after after a long period of 1:29:34.670,1:29:38.420 exploitation it just doesn't happen 1:29:36.560,1:29:40.430 immediately just because you see Bitcoin 1:29:38.420,1:29:42.500 doesn't it doesn't immediately clicks on 1:29:40.430,1:29:44.630 your head it happens when you start 1:29:42.500,1:29:48.230 exploring and exploring and exploring so 1:29:44.630,1:29:49.929 the part of our doctrine aiding other 1:29:48.230,1:29:54.649 Bitcoin users is 1:29:49.929,1:29:57.800 the key is to find the food in mind the 1:29:54.649,1:30:01.249 potent mind who is a mind which has all 1:29:57.800,1:30:04.039 the relevant ideas in place and all you 1:30:01.249,1:30:05.869 need to do is connect them together once 1:30:04.039,1:30:08.269 you connect them together it just clicks 1:30:05.869,1:30:09.829 in them and then they will just explore 1:30:08.269,1:30:11.570 on their own they will learn on their 1:30:09.829,1:30:14.119 own they will scout on their own they 1:30:11.570,1:30:15.829 will go to extent that you have just 1:30:14.119,1:30:17.599 done in order to understand this thing 1:30:15.829,1:30:19.789 so that they can understand it better 1:30:17.599,1:30:22.010 you cannot explain people to bitcoins 1:30:19.789,1:30:25.760 they have to understand it on their own 1:30:22.010,1:30:27.829 what you can do is put the dots in their 1:30:25.760,1:30:32.209 head and then just connect it so it 1:30:27.829,1:30:34.789 clicks okay so that sounds a little 1:30:32.209,1:30:37.639 successful on your side you managed to 1:30:34.789,1:30:39.889 convince some university students that 1:30:37.639,1:30:42.229 it's not not in a large enough scale it 1:30:39.889,1:30:45.469 is just two or three people I am 1:30:42.229,1:30:48.139 planning to build build it up in scale 1:30:45.469,1:30:50.209 so that I can have a local group of 1:30:48.139,1:30:51.800 bitcoiners in local universities so we 1:30:50.209,1:30:53.689 can have all these kinds of meters 1:30:51.800,1:30:55.639 discussions and hackathons and maybe 1:30:53.689,1:30:59.780 build cool stuffs on it so I am in the 1:30:55.639,1:31:03.199 process of it I am just when I started I 1:30:59.780,1:31:06.859 was like a the lone wolf and there was 1:31:03.199,1:31:08.839 no one and when I when I started 1:31:06.859,1:31:11.449 thinking about making Bitcoin businesses 1:31:08.839,1:31:13.789 Bitcoin only businesses on in India the 1:31:11.449,1:31:16.249 first biggest difficulty I faced is like 1:31:13.789,1:31:18.109 there are no bitcoins so I kind of had 1:31:16.249,1:31:19.639 to make Bitcoin as out of thin air so 1:31:18.109,1:31:22.280 that's what I've been doing for last two 1:31:19.639,1:31:24.229 three last seven eight months and I got 1:31:22.280,1:31:27.260 like two three people who I have 1:31:24.229,1:31:29.089 successfully able to convert and they 1:31:27.260,1:31:31.550 are like right now in the process of 1:31:29.089,1:31:33.889 this transition this process of studying 1:31:31.550,1:31:35.719 and this process of exploration and I am 1:31:33.889,1:31:40.939 planning to build it up in scale and see 1:31:35.719,1:31:44.239 how it goes from there okay but have you 1:31:40.939,1:31:46.909 also educated yourself to code and be 1:31:44.239,1:31:50.749 able to develop applications for Bitcoin 1:31:46.909,1:31:56.379 like wallet yeah yeah I have done that I 1:31:50.749,1:31:59.479 have been doing that but for the first 1:31:56.379,1:32:01.510 first one year of my study or what was 1:31:59.479,1:32:03.820 what seemed important is 1:32:01.510,1:32:06.190 should learn how to code I should learn 1:32:03.820,1:32:08.559 how the cryptographic primitives that 1:32:06.190,1:32:10.119 was the basic with basic understanding I 1:32:08.559,1:32:13.119 should have in order to work on the 1:32:10.119,1:32:16.150 system so I taught myself how to code 1:32:13.119,1:32:18.519 but I am not at that level where I can 1:32:16.150,1:32:21.699 cook a full-functioning wallet 1:32:18.519,1:32:23.949 software's so I have to I have a try I 1:32:21.699,1:32:26.380 have tried my hand in many hobby 1:32:23.949,1:32:30.280 projects but it's not nothing in a 1:32:26.380,1:32:33.670 deployable way but the more I am going 1:32:30.280,1:32:36.489 towards and I am thinking like I I don't 1:32:33.670,1:32:38.739 want to be a full-time developers 1:32:36.489,1:32:41.340 developing things on Bitcoin I just 1:32:38.739,1:32:44.650 happen to know people who can do that I 1:32:41.340,1:32:46.480 should be able to motivate them to do 1:32:44.650,1:32:49.059 this thing because they can do this job 1:32:46.480,1:32:51.190 better than me so I should not be 1:32:49.059,1:32:52.989 directly writing codes on bitcoins I 1:32:51.190,1:32:54.789 should figure to find out people who can 1:32:52.989,1:32:57.190 do that thing better than me and I 1:32:54.789,1:32:58.809 should I should make them realize why 1:32:57.190,1:33:01.059 why that's the best thing that they can 1:32:58.809,1:33:02.860 do with the free time so that's what I 1:33:01.059,1:33:06.909 have been trying to that's what that's 1:33:02.860,1:33:09.250 what I've been going right now so what 1:33:06.909,1:33:11.289 is your plan maybe in the next few years 1:33:09.250,1:33:13.570 are you trying to build a large 1:33:11.289,1:33:16.210 community and then what develop 1:33:13.570,1:33:20.260 businesses surrounding Bitcoin educate 1:33:16.210,1:33:23.739 the minds of the youth education is 1:33:20.260,1:33:26.829 obviously a big part of it Francis 1:33:23.739,1:33:29.170 Fourier very recently made a post in 1:33:26.829,1:33:31.269 Twitter which I completely agree with we 1:33:29.170,1:33:35.710 said like the way to make a cyberpunk 1:33:31.269,1:33:38.769 business is it is don't go for a product 1:33:35.710,1:33:40.750 at first go for a network of motivated 1:33:38.769,1:33:43.780 and resourceful people what you need 1:33:40.750,1:33:46.510 first is a network of motivated and 1:33:43.780,1:33:48.400 resourceful people who are investing 1:33:46.510,1:33:50.650 their mental capabilities their mental 1:33:48.400,1:33:53.199 time and their free energy into 1:33:50.650,1:33:55.719 understanding as seemingly complex stuff 1:33:53.199,1:33:57.099 once you have that what you can do you 1:33:55.719,1:33:59.320 can make all sorts of different 1:33:57.099,1:34:01.719 structures with this group of people you 1:33:59.320,1:34:04.150 can meet academics room you can make a 1:34:01.719,1:34:05.949 club you can make a society you can make 1:34:04.150,1:34:07.329 a meet-up or you can make a business 1:34:05.949,1:34:09.099 where you can build where you are 1:34:07.329,1:34:12.219 building Bitcoin infrastructure products 1:34:09.099,1:34:13.820 like models like full nodes or hardware 1:34:12.219,1:34:15.889 or hardware wallets 1:34:13.820,1:34:18.170 or all these kind of stuffs and there is 1:34:15.889,1:34:20.060 a very big lacking of this kind of 1:34:18.170,1:34:23.270 infrastructures in India we just don't 1:34:20.060,1:34:25.880 have it here and the problem is like if 1:34:23.270,1:34:29.030 you want to import this already super 1:34:25.880,1:34:31.340 cool model hardware's it's just so 1:34:29.030,1:34:34.340 costly that movie most of the people 1:34:31.340,1:34:36.440 can't just afford it so the reason we 1:34:34.340,1:34:40.070 can cannot well the people cannot afford 1:34:36.440,1:34:44.449 it because it's once there is this 1:34:40.070,1:34:47.000 corner currency conversion thing so $300 1:34:44.449,1:34:50.480 is pretty much a big amount for a net 1:34:47.000,1:34:53.360 for a regular Indian then over that 1:34:50.480,1:34:55.460 there is this input cost so the cost of 1:34:53.360,1:34:58.550 boost up so high that people can't just 1:34:55.460,1:35:01.099 use it so mostly what people are trying 1:34:58.550,1:35:03.280 to do in the small community of that we 1:35:01.099,1:35:05.750 have is people are trying to bring their 1:35:03.280,1:35:08.030 Bitcoin notes on their own so that's 1:35:05.750,1:35:10.639 much cheaper to do but it's much harder 1:35:08.030,1:35:12.290 to do but it's a really good exercise of 1:35:10.639,1:35:13.820 learning so that's what we are that's 1:35:12.290,1:35:15.500 what I have been doing and that's not 1:35:13.820,1:35:17.449 many of other people have been doing so 1:35:15.500,1:35:19.250 I think there is a very good school of 1:35:17.449,1:35:21.020 having Bitcoin only businesses and 1:35:19.250,1:35:21.560 infrastructure businesses to deploy in 1:35:21.020,1:35:24.050 India 1:35:21.560,1:35:26.989 that's one of my goal but I I do not 1:35:24.050,1:35:30.230 have a properly chopped out path how I 1:35:26.989,1:35:32.659 can reach there right now I have this 1:35:30.230,1:35:35.090 immediate goal of making as many 1:35:32.659,1:35:37.340 bitcoiners I I can out of these 1:35:35.090,1:35:39.920 university students because they seems 1:35:37.340,1:35:43.940 to be the most potent mind that I have 1:35:39.920,1:35:45.590 at my disposal I that I can use them or 1:35:43.940,1:35:49.460 I can help them to understand these 1:35:45.590,1:35:51.560 things and and they are almost always to 1:35:49.460,1:35:53.750 receive these ideas in a very 1:35:51.560,1:35:55.480 enthusiastic tone so that's a good thing 1:35:53.750,1:35:59.510 and that's what I am looking to build 1:35:55.480,1:36:02.389 next just out of curiosity what are 1:35:59.510,1:36:06.079 these students studying right now the 1:36:02.389,1:36:07.699 ones who got in there for all sorts of 1:36:06.079,1:36:09.290 different backgrounds there is no one 1:36:07.699,1:36:11.719 background that we have students from 1:36:09.290,1:36:14.239 economics mathematics engineering all 1:36:11.719,1:36:18.469 different forms of engineering political 1:36:14.239,1:36:19.639 science history law and all sorts of in 1:36:18.469,1:36:22.100 and out that that 1:36:19.639,1:36:23.659 that's one of my that's the one of the 1:36:22.100,1:36:24.980 crucial part of understanding Bitcoin 1:36:23.659,1:36:28.610 bitcoin is not a domain-specific 1:36:24.980,1:36:30.500 knowledge it's um it's a 1:36:28.610,1:36:33.050 multidisciplinary thing so you need 1:36:30.500,1:36:35.270 people from all different sorts of 1:36:33.050,1:36:37.580 disciplines to come together to explore 1:36:35.270,1:36:39.800 this one idea from all these different 1:36:37.580,1:36:42.500 viewpoints and the fascinating thing 1:36:39.800,1:36:45.560 about Bitcoin is everybody has a 1:36:42.500,1:36:47.030 perspective on this object from their 1:36:45.560,1:36:49.219 own different discipline 1:36:47.030,1:36:50.989 this hasn't never happened with any kind 1:36:49.219,1:36:53.210 of other technical innovations or 1:36:50.989,1:36:56.060 software's or any kind of other Sciences 1:36:53.210,1:36:57.590 so even people from history even people 1:36:56.060,1:36:59.989 from political sense and you can relate 1:36:57.590,1:37:01.310 it very easily we have all sorts of 1:36:59.989,1:37:05.179 people from all different lengths all 1:37:01.310,1:37:07.449 sorts right now what we have what I have 1:37:05.179,1:37:09.830 is like two three people's from 1:37:07.449,1:37:13.310 different engineering backgrounds and 1:37:09.830,1:37:17.690 different other majors like history and 1:37:13.310,1:37:20.900 I think that's all I have 1:37:17.690,1:37:22.489 we are still looking for a political 1:37:20.900,1:37:24.619 science student we don't have a 1:37:22.489,1:37:27.650 political science student as of yet but 1:37:24.619,1:37:29.960 yeah mostly engineers and mostly we are 1:37:27.650,1:37:32.449 we have another Ravi is a mathematician 1:37:29.960,1:37:35.920 where he is who are doing PhD in maths 1:37:32.449,1:37:38.690 so yeah that's it 1:37:35.920,1:37:40.400 sometimes I think that in order to get 1:37:38.690,1:37:42.560 into Bitcoin you need the proper 1:37:40.400,1:37:45.860 background or life experience which 1:37:42.560,1:37:52.360 motivates you as you don't just get into 1:37:45.860,1:37:57.469 it you somehow need it in your life yeah 1:37:52.360,1:37:59.630 in order to properly jump inside that 1:37:57.469,1:38:02.270 rabbit hole you need to have some kind 1:37:59.630,1:38:04.580 of questions that you have been looking 1:38:02.270,1:38:07.040 and so forth so it happened to me 1:38:04.580,1:38:08.960 because I was asking that question that 1:38:07.040,1:38:11.750 Bitcoin suddenly gives the answer for 1:38:08.960,1:38:16.400 and done that's why I just jump into it 1:38:11.750,1:38:18.619 and this happens to all people and it's 1:38:16.400,1:38:21.110 not necessarily to say that there is one 1:38:18.619,1:38:23.630 single background that you should come 1:38:21.110,1:38:27.679 from in order to have this kind of 1:38:23.630,1:38:28.700 jumping moment it can happen for any any 1:38:27.679,1:38:30.260 kind of background 1:38:28.700,1:38:32.990 it can happen from any different that 1:38:30.260,1:38:35.480 whatever your background is there is 1:38:32.990,1:38:37.250 some part of life there is some 1:38:35.480,1:38:39.260 questions of life there is some 1:38:37.250,1:38:42.380 questions of quest that you can 1:38:39.260,1:38:44.180 ultimately attach to this thing and then 1:38:42.380,1:38:46.520 ultimately can fall down into this 1:38:44.180,1:38:49.580 rabbit hole so that way that's the 1:38:46.520,1:38:51.800 reason why we see people from all sorts 1:38:49.580,1:38:54.380 of political domains from lipslide 1:38:51.800,1:38:55.940 Center from all sorts of religious 1:38:54.380,1:38:58.760 domain from all sorts of technical 1:38:55.940,1:39:01.790 domain from all sorts of artistic domain 1:38:58.760,1:39:04.400 are able to make themselves interested 1:39:01.790,1:39:06.380 in Bitcoin because Bitcoin can be seen 1:39:04.400,1:39:08.390 from all these different perspective 1:39:06.380,1:39:10.810 view points and everybody can have their 1:39:08.390,1:39:15.560 own story engraved in it 1:39:10.810,1:39:18.380 this is more of a joke but it can become 1:39:15.560,1:39:21.080 a serious question in a certain context 1:39:18.380,1:39:23.720 how would you explain to somebody who 1:39:21.080,1:39:25.910 maybe listens to this and has no idea 1:39:23.720,1:39:28.970 what we're talking about that bitcoin is 1:39:25.910,1:39:33.470 not some kind of religious cult and we 1:39:28.970,1:39:35.630 are undergoing this missionary quest in 1:39:33.470,1:39:40.070 order to spread the word about it and 1:39:35.630,1:39:43.160 make people use our made up money that 1:39:40.070,1:39:45.290 no government backs so the essential 1:39:43.160,1:39:51.320 question is why are we not a cult and 1:39:45.290,1:39:55.210 what sets us apart from one I think we 1:39:51.320,1:39:59.720 are good what's wrong with being a cult 1:39:55.210,1:40:02.690 okay I was about to argue that unlike 1:39:59.720,1:40:06.770 many calls which are mostly concerned 1:40:02.690,1:40:08.540 with spiritual Savior and redemption and 1:40:06.770,1:40:11.990 whatever concept they're trying to 1:40:08.540,1:40:15.830 promote this is more about economic 1:40:11.990,1:40:18.140 rationality than about anything else so 1:40:15.830,1:40:20.710 if it's about yourself interesting read 1:40:18.140,1:40:23.450 and money it makes a lot more sense than 1:40:20.710,1:40:25.370 it's much more practical than anything 1:40:23.450,1:40:28.010 else that deals with something 1:40:25.370,1:40:29.120 immaterial that we cannot perceive and 1:40:28.010,1:40:31.730 there's not tangible 1:40:29.120,1:40:35.210 even though bitcoin is not tangible in 1:40:31.730,1:40:36.860 itself it holds a certain value that we 1:40:35.210,1:40:41.930 agree on and that's something very 1:40:36.860,1:40:45.980 different from trying to establish nor 1:40:41.930,1:40:50.150 regarding what a perceived God is like 1:40:45.980,1:40:52.850 or trying to find ways to worship okay I 1:40:50.150,1:40:55.460 understood your point I can argue from a 1:40:52.850,1:40:58.280 completely opposite way because the cult 1:40:55.460,1:41:01.130 emerges because there is a belief system 1:40:58.280,1:41:04.340 the belief system happens because people 1:41:01.130,1:41:07.370 believe in certain ethical norms certain 1:41:04.340,1:41:09.530 ethical statements that they seems to be 1:41:07.370,1:41:11.660 following to be the truth and that's 1:41:09.530,1:41:13.400 completely subjective that begins on the 1:41:11.660,1:41:15.020 entire religion that depends on the 1:41:13.400,1:41:17.870 geography that depends on the culture 1:41:15.020,1:41:21.200 but cults always happens because we they 1:41:17.870,1:41:23.480 have a belief system and a belief system 1:41:21.200,1:41:26.980 emerges whenever there is a question of 1:41:23.480,1:41:32.570 ethics and I think Bitcoin exactly 1:41:26.980,1:41:34.520 exhibit one is exactly that and I think 1:41:32.570,1:41:37.010 ethics of money production who knows 1:41:34.520,1:41:40.400 that missus oh no sorry thought about I 1:41:37.010,1:41:42.230 I forgot if you know if you read the 1:41:40.400,1:41:46.400 ethics of money production I forgot to 1:41:42.230,1:41:48.920 wrote it and the Econo the question of 1:41:46.400,1:41:50.990 economics is basically answered is 1:41:48.920,1:41:53.330 through the question of ethics and 1:41:50.990,1:41:55.640 ethics and economics is very much 1:41:53.330,1:41:58.370 related to each other you cannot have a 1:41:55.640,1:42:01.070 sound economics without a sound ethical 1:41:58.370,1:42:03.050 ground so in order to have a sound 1:42:01.070,1:42:06.290 economics if you have need to have a 1:42:03.050,1:42:08.870 sound ethical ground the inherently that 1:42:06.290,1:42:10.640 means that the thing with which you were 1:42:08.870,1:42:13.760 built and trying to build the economics 1:42:10.640,1:42:16.750 has to have ethics engraved question of 1:42:13.760,1:42:20.150 ethics engraved into some form of it and 1:42:16.750,1:42:22.730 Bitcoin does engrave some form of ethics 1:42:20.150,1:42:25.520 into it you cannot inflate the supply of 1:42:22.730,1:42:28.370 Bitcoin that's a ethical stand so 1:42:25.520,1:42:30.980 whenever you have an ethical stand it 1:42:28.370,1:42:33.320 immediately there is no different 1:42:30.980,1:42:36.260 between a curtain you can describe curls 1:42:33.320,1:42:39.440 in lots of different ways in positive in 1:42:36.260,1:42:42.470 positive ways in negative ways but the 1:42:39.440,1:42:45.410 core concept of a cult is that it has to 1:42:42.470,1:42:48.410 have its one basic ethical statement and 1:42:45.410,1:42:50.890 become and because Bitcoin does have is 1:42:48.410,1:42:53.230 one basic ethical statement 1:42:50.890,1:42:56.500 don't think that you can argue that it's 1:42:53.230,1:42:58.480 not a cult it is a gun but what is that 1:42:56.500,1:43:02.890 ethical statement that you're speaking 1:42:58.480,1:43:08.230 of nobody should have the power to 1:43:02.890,1:43:10.570 manipulate money supply that's fair 1:43:08.230,1:43:13.000 that's the acknowledged statement you 1:43:10.570,1:43:15.670 think that's the only one involving it I 1:43:13.000,1:43:18.250 think no they didn't many many others 1:43:15.670,1:43:20.200 like there are ethical statements which 1:43:18.250,1:43:22.390 privacy data ethical statements with 1:43:20.200,1:43:24.580 sovereignty there are ethical statements 1:43:22.390,1:43:26.410 with free tapes free trades there are 1:43:24.580,1:43:32.440 ethical statements with free markets all 1:43:26.410,1:43:34.660 this comes all this builds up on this on 1:43:32.440,1:43:37.420 this basic ground I think the basic 1:43:34.660,1:43:40.270 ground is nobody should be the in the 1:43:37.420,1:43:42.820 position of power to control monetary 1:43:40.270,1:43:45.790 policy because if somebody does that's 1:43:42.820,1:43:48.490 unethical the reason that they control 1:43:45.790,1:43:51.640 the fact that they control is itself the 1:43:48.490,1:43:53.830 unethical part of that statement so the 1:43:51.640,1:43:55.750 basic building block of it though of 1:43:53.830,1:43:58.990 this free-market ethics that you can 1:43:55.750,1:44:01.690 build up on top of Brid coin is starts 1:43:58.990,1:44:04.060 from this fact that nobody should be in 1:44:01.690,1:44:06.880 the power of control monetary policy and 1:44:04.060,1:44:09.490 if you bill you that is a Attica Lee 1:44:06.880,1:44:15.580 correct statement to have then you have 1:44:09.490,1:44:17.590 a cut that makes sense if you look at it 1:44:15.580,1:44:19.600 from this point of view even though I 1:44:17.590,1:44:22.990 guess the Western understanding of 1:44:19.600,1:44:24.730 occult is slightly different and has to 1:44:22.990,1:44:27.070 deal with all sorts of crazy people 1:44:24.730,1:44:29.260 getting together and yeah that's just 1:44:27.070,1:44:32.830 how you define country you can define 1:44:29.260,1:44:36.100 the world cult in many images you can 1:44:32.830,1:44:38.440 have a bad image like all these crazy 1:44:36.100,1:44:41.110 people with black hairs and black nails 1:44:38.440,1:44:43.990 and all let you call that a cult or you 1:44:41.110,1:44:46.000 can call a cult in a very different 1:44:43.990,1:44:49.690 image it depends on how you are defining 1:44:46.000,1:44:53.380 the world but the essence of I guess the 1:44:49.690,1:44:56.080 essence of a cult is this like you need 1:44:53.380,1:44:58.020 to have a belief system you need to have 1:44:56.080,1:45:00.390 a belief system engraved in the 1:44:58.020,1:45:02.640 design of the cult every cult believes 1:45:00.390,1:45:05.520 some statement without there cannot be 1:45:02.640,1:45:09.240 any cult and if you have a belief system 1:45:05.520,1:45:11.310 that you inherently end up being in a in 1:45:09.240,1:45:15.480 a phenomena which is kind of like 1:45:11.310,1:45:18.000 religion and you see and you hear saying 1:45:15.480,1:45:20.730 this thing from other people who are not 1:45:18.000,1:45:22.680 exactly Bitcoin maximalism they think of 1:45:20.730,1:45:25.710 it called maximalism as kind of a 1:45:22.680,1:45:28.200 religion because maybe it is because 1:45:25.710,1:45:30.150 maybe it is because it has a belief 1:45:28.200,1:45:32.250 system engraved into it it has an 1:45:30.150,1:45:34.530 ethical point it has a ethical stand 1:45:32.250,1:45:37.110 over which you stand and make the 1:45:34.530,1:45:38.820 further progression of your societal 1:45:37.110,1:45:40.620 viewpoint that you build on top of it 1:45:38.820,1:45:42.600 like the free market that the privacy 1:45:40.620,1:45:46.170 like the use of sovereignty and all 1:45:42.600,1:45:48.570 these other things so it does kind of 1:45:46.170,1:45:51.060 make sense to agree with the argument 1:45:48.570,1:45:53.010 that this is a belief system and if this 1:45:51.060,1:45:56.040 is a belief system there is not much 1:45:53.010,1:46:01.110 difference between it and any other kind 1:45:56.040,1:46:04.440 of religion these can be actually the 1:46:01.110,1:46:06.330 foundations of an institutional cults 1:46:04.440,1:46:10.200 that we can establish so we don't pay 1:46:06.330,1:46:13.380 taxes anymore probably probably this can 1:46:10.200,1:46:17.280 be the cult of the next human evolution 1:46:13.380,1:46:20.180 and I don't know I don't know how it's 1:46:17.280,1:46:22.740 gonna play out but it seems to me that I 1:46:20.180,1:46:25.680 I don't I don't necessarily see it as a 1:46:22.740,1:46:28.530 bad thing so whenever I hear the word 1:46:25.680,1:46:30.210 cult in context of Bitcoin I happen to 1:46:28.530,1:46:32.550 agree with it but it doesn't necessarily 1:46:30.210,1:46:34.800 immediately strike a bad image in front 1:46:32.550,1:46:37.410 of us what strikes me that it's 1:46:34.800,1:46:40.650 unnecessarily it is a necessary feature 1:46:37.410,1:46:43.440 that Bitcoin needed to have in order to 1:46:40.650,1:46:47.060 do what it's supposed what it is aiming 1:46:43.440,1:46:49.650 to do it needed to have this ingrained 1:46:47.060,1:46:52.560 belief system in it because that's when 1:46:49.650,1:46:56.220 you hit individual mind 1:46:52.560,1:47:00.030 at the core heart of it if you cannot 1:46:56.220,1:47:00.960 hit at its belief system you cannot make 1:47:00.030,1:47:04.380 it a zombie virus 1:47:00.960,1:47:06.660 so the only way Bitcoin can succeed is 1:47:04.380,1:47:08.580 by making itself like a zombie virus and 1:47:06.660,1:47:11.520 the only way it can 1:47:08.580,1:47:14.130 itself as a zombie virus is by hitting 1:47:11.520,1:47:15.930 at the heart of the human psyche that is 1:47:14.130,1:47:18.350 the core belief system and I think 1:47:15.930,1:47:21.480 Bitcoin is in the process of doing that 1:47:18.350,1:47:24.630 that's interesting it's going to also be 1:47:21.480,1:47:27.840 fascinating to see how this plays out in 1:47:24.630,1:47:29.790 the coming years and what more adoption 1:47:27.840,1:47:32.010 how we are going to change the 1:47:29.790,1:47:35.460 narratives because objectively speaking 1:47:32.010,1:47:37.530 we can say that Bitcoin has has gone 1:47:35.460,1:47:41.000 through many phases of adoption and 1:47:37.530,1:47:45.150 different narratives that preceded and 1:47:41.000,1:47:47.780 facilitated this so it's going to be a 1:47:45.150,1:47:49.980 matter of how do you present this 1:47:47.780,1:47:54.750 protocol because essentially it's just 1:47:49.980,1:47:57.690 code to somebody who is willing to 1:47:54.750,1:48:02.000 embrace it but is not at the edge of the 1:47:57.690,1:48:06.120 society is just a normal person you know 1:48:02.000,1:48:07.710 we need to we will see narrative changes 1:48:06.120,1:48:10.440 narrative changes happens all the time 1:48:07.710,1:48:12.720 but what what I think we need to be 1:48:10.440,1:48:15.660 careful about this changes of narrative 1:48:12.720,1:48:19.380 that this Nell the the core narrative of 1:48:15.660,1:48:22.050 Bitcoin should not be distorted the core 1:48:19.380,1:48:24.510 narrative was was this one single 1:48:22.050,1:48:27.300 ethical statement nobody should have the 1:48:24.510,1:48:29.820 power to manipulate economic policy the 1:48:27.300,1:48:32.250 money college monetary policies so if 1:48:29.820,1:48:34.770 this narrative gets distorted in some 1:48:32.250,1:48:36.540 way we can have all these higher kinds 1:48:34.770,1:48:38.670 of narratives depending on the 1:48:36.540,1:48:40.950 suitability of our environment depending 1:48:38.670,1:48:43.020 on how the network is behaving depending 1:48:40.950,1:48:48.990 on how the adoptions is coming but we 1:48:43.020,1:48:51.900 should not be be willing to do should 1:48:48.990,1:48:54.840 not be willing to forfeit this very 1:48:51.900,1:48:58.650 basic fundamental narrative because 1:48:54.840,1:49:01.380 that's what makes Bitcoin take I guess 1:48:58.650,1:49:02.370 the biggest kind of attack vector that 1:49:01.380,1:49:06.480 you have on Bitcoin 1:49:02.370,1:49:09.150 is the fixed supply if you no longer 1:49:06.480,1:49:11.400 have that and people agree that you can 1:49:09.150,1:49:13.740 have an inflationary Bitcoin then that's 1:49:11.400,1:49:16.730 the end of it you don't have to take 1:49:13.740,1:49:16.730 down the mining 1:49:16.949,1:49:21.870 I don't remember where I read Bible I 1:49:19.320,1:49:24.900 was reading it somewhere that the the 1:49:21.870,1:49:28.020 biggest right decision that Satoshi took 1:49:24.900,1:49:30.719 was having a fixed supply cap because he 1:49:28.020,1:49:33.300 knew that the moment you make the supply 1:49:30.719,1:49:37.739 cap fluctuating the moment you have this 1:49:33.300,1:49:40.170 question of inflation that see that that 1:49:37.739,1:49:42.239 opens up a lot of political attack 1:49:40.170,1:49:44.790 vector because there is no right answer 1:49:42.239,1:49:47.340 for the right inflation there is no 1:49:44.790,1:49:49.980 right inflation so you can never 1:49:47.340,1:49:51.929 objectively determine that this should 1:49:49.980,1:49:53.489 be the right inflation you can see this 1:49:51.929,1:49:55.650 happening in the etherium right now they 1:49:53.489,1:49:57.030 they do not have a consensus on what 1:49:55.650,1:49:59.429 should be the right inflation because 1:49:57.030,1:50:01.320 you cannot have a concession concession 1:49:59.429,1:50:03.390 on right inflation because every 1:50:01.320,1:50:05.429 inflation is right inflation so the 1:50:03.390,1:50:07.440 moment you start making this question 1:50:05.429,1:50:09.330 you open yourself to this political at 1:50:07.440,1:50:10.980 elevator where you can never reach a 1:50:09.330,1:50:14.040 consensus and that's why I suppose she 1:50:10.980,1:50:16.170 fix the cap at 21 million because he 1:50:14.040,1:50:17.730 knew that this question was an attack 1:50:16.170,1:50:19.830 vector once you start having this 1:50:17.730,1:50:22.380 question of whether to increase the cap 1:50:19.830,1:50:24.030 or not that opens up the attack of 1:50:22.380,1:50:27.960 controlling the monetary policy because 1:50:24.030,1:50:30.840 there is no one to answer for it I agree 1:50:27.960,1:50:33.719 and that's the most important feature of 1:50:30.840,1:50:37.050 Bitcoin we like to say that it's going 1:50:33.719,1:50:39.420 to lead to deflation and a situation 1:50:37.050,1:50:42.719 where the demand is higher than the 1:50:39.420,1:50:47.520 supply which means an appreciation in 1:50:42.719,1:50:49.920 terms of fiat money yes and the way it's 1:50:47.520,1:50:51.870 going to play out during the various ha 1:50:49.920,1:50:55.110 things that we have throughout years 1:50:51.870,1:50:59.280 that's also something interesting to 1:50:55.110,1:51:02.880 witness yeah it's interesting because we 1:50:59.280,1:51:05.160 never had a deflationary money supply so 1:51:02.880,1:51:07.770 it's not deflationary it's negative 1:51:05.160,1:51:09.540 inflation so the inflation is there the 1:51:07.770,1:51:12.030 inflation just decreases with time and 1:51:09.540,1:51:14.340 at some point it just stops so it's not 1:51:12.030,1:51:17.370 actually executive inflationary is its 1:51:14.340,1:51:18.989 fixed supply money money system so we 1:51:17.370,1:51:22.980 never actually had this week supply 1:51:18.989,1:51:25.980 money system and we don't exactly know 1:51:22.980,1:51:28.500 how it's gonna play out and we can 1:51:25.980,1:51:31.260 theorize lots of crazy theories we can 1:51:28.500,1:51:33.000 theorize how 1:51:31.260,1:51:36.180 but this is the biggest problem of 1:51:33.000,1:51:38.760 bitcoins we do not have a mathematical 1:51:36.180,1:51:41.880 theory that proves a mathematical 1:51:38.760,1:51:44.460 derivation that proves that this is why 1:51:41.880,1:51:47.940 Bitcoin will work or this is why bitcoin 1:51:44.460,1:51:51.060 will not work so this is the curious 1:51:47.940,1:51:53.010 part of bitcoins and I think somewhere I 1:51:51.060,1:51:55.230 don't remember that bitcoin is this 1:51:53.010,1:51:58.070 weird thing that doesn't work in theory 1:51:55.230,1:52:01.560 but it only works in practice and 1:51:58.070,1:52:04.530 because of this nature of Bitcoin we 1:52:01.560,1:52:06.840 cannot predict what it will do because 1:52:04.530,1:52:09.090 we don't simply have a derivation of why 1:52:06.840,1:52:11.940 it's working we just know it's working 1:52:09.090,1:52:13.650 we kind of trying to guess how it's 1:52:11.940,1:52:15.450 working while it's working and we have 1:52:13.650,1:52:17.610 all these different kind of theories but 1:52:15.450,1:52:18.870 we do not which we haven't been able to 1:52:17.610,1:52:21.420 describe it 1:52:18.870,1:52:23.370 in a mathematical formal language or why 1:52:21.420,1:52:27.030 this will work or why this will never 1:52:23.370,1:52:30.150 work so that's a thing that is remaining 1:52:27.030,1:52:31.800 for us and I I don't think we will ever 1:52:30.150,1:52:34.530 be able to describe it in a formal 1:52:31.800,1:52:36.900 mathematical language what we will be 1:52:34.530,1:52:40.590 able to do is we will be able to observe 1:52:36.900,1:52:42.540 and formulate our rational about why 1:52:40.590,1:52:44.100 this system is working how the system is 1:52:42.540,1:52:45.840 working and what kind of system what 1:52:44.100,1:52:49.800 kind of effect this system is having in 1:52:45.840,1:52:52.830 our society that's all we can do you're 1:52:49.800,1:52:55.320 right and I guess this is where that 1:52:52.830,1:53:00.240 part about possibly becoming occult 1:52:55.320,1:53:03.960 comes into play yes we are going to 1:53:00.240,1:53:07.950 really really be confident into the 1:53:03.960,1:53:11.520 qualities of Bitcoin and trust that it 1:53:07.950,1:53:14.100 works and project this kind of trust 1:53:11.520,1:53:16.200 into others and even though it's a 1:53:14.100,1:53:19.980 trustless protocol that anybody can 1:53:16.200,1:53:23.130 audit even I can go into github and 1:53:19.980,1:53:26.670 check the code we have to actually trust 1:53:23.130,1:53:28.710 that the people who are improving it are 1:53:26.670,1:53:31.260 not going to create some kind of 1:53:28.710,1:53:33.420 inflation bug or they're not going to 1:53:31.260,1:53:36.330 destroy the protocol and there have been 1:53:33.420,1:53:39.720 precedents of contentious attacks words 1:53:36.330,1:53:43.390 Bitcoin and what it essentially is as a 1:53:39.720,1:53:45.730 decentralized network of computers they 1:53:43.390,1:53:49.360 try to impose a larger block size which 1:53:45.730,1:53:52.720 would effectively increase or decrease 1:53:49.360,1:53:57.640 the amount of computers that are able to 1:53:52.720,1:53:59.380 synchronize true so see so the system is 1:53:57.640,1:54:01.600 rigged with all sorts of trade-offs 1:53:59.380,1:54:03.790 there are trade-offs here and there and 1:54:01.600,1:54:06.160 III don't think there is one single 1:54:03.790,1:54:07.630 parameter that you can change in Bitcoin 1:54:06.160,1:54:10.090 that doesn't come with the trade-off 1:54:07.630,1:54:12.370 so the trade-offs are everywhere and 1:54:10.090,1:54:16.000 this is where the narrative comes in the 1:54:12.370,1:54:17.470 narrative says the the narrative that 1:54:16.000,1:54:19.780 you subscribe to the narrative that 1:54:17.470,1:54:21.910 makes it a cult that that narrative says 1:54:19.780,1:54:23.530 what kind of trade-offs are acceptable 1:54:21.910,1:54:26.200 and what kind of trade-offs are not 1:54:23.530,1:54:28.450 acceptable so that's how the community 1:54:26.200,1:54:30.730 as a whole should be making decisions 1:54:28.450,1:54:33.190 and that's the reason why should why we 1:54:30.730,1:54:35.710 should never dilute the core narrative 1:54:33.190,1:54:37.750 of this protocol because if we dilute 1:54:35.710,1:54:40.690 the core narrative of this protocol we 1:54:37.750,1:54:42.670 don't have the direction of deciding on 1:54:40.690,1:54:45.970 these trade-offs so that is a very 1:54:42.670,1:54:49.540 crucial point and also this Trust has to 1:54:45.970,1:54:53.620 happen this Trust has to happen like it 1:54:49.540,1:54:56.560 happened for gold see in a in societies 1:54:53.620,1:54:59.350 where people buy gold jewelry's they 1:54:56.560,1:55:01.540 don't they don't trust the gold money 1:54:59.350,1:55:03.130 supply they don't know where the money 1:55:01.540,1:55:06.910 supply is coming from they don't know 1:55:03.130,1:55:08.650 who who is holding how much amount of 1:55:06.910,1:55:12.220 gold they don't even know what's the 1:55:08.650,1:55:15.130 price of food so but they inherently 1:55:12.220,1:55:16.690 trust the asset in their gut because 1:55:15.130,1:55:19.750 they have been doing that for the last 1:55:16.690,1:55:23.620 thousands of years and it at every time 1:55:19.750,1:55:26.380 and it has been proved to work in a 1:55:23.620,1:55:29.860 timeless fan the timeless manner the 1:55:26.380,1:55:32.560 same way you cannot cannot find out a 1:55:29.860,1:55:34.960 mathematical derivation of why bitcoin 1:55:32.560,1:55:36.400 will always work the same the same thing 1:55:34.960,1:55:38.830 happens in good you cannot have a 1:55:36.400,1:55:40.630 mathematical formula derivation of why 1:55:38.830,1:55:42.640 gold should always show their value 1:55:40.630,1:55:44.830 because you can have all sorts of 1:55:42.640,1:55:46.750 situations where gold doesn't story's 1:55:44.830,1:55:48.820 value for example you keep by a s4 and 1:55:46.750,1:55:52.060 made out of gold so then it doesn't 1:55:48.820,1:55:54.310 store its value anymore or you make some 1:55:52.060,1:55:55.730 weird crazy technical innovations where 1:55:54.310,1:55:57.170 you change any 1:55:55.730,1:55:59.810 turns into Gold's or something like that 1:55:57.170,1:56:01.820 it doesn't store its value anyone so you 1:55:59.810,1:56:04.100 also don't have this normative 1:56:01.820,1:56:06.200 derivations in gold but still people 1:56:04.100,1:56:08.120 instinctively believe in the properties 1:56:06.200,1:56:10.670 of cool in its value transferring 1:56:08.120,1:56:13.010 mechanisms of time and they don't have 1:56:10.670,1:56:15.410 to think about it it's engraved in their 1:56:13.010,1:56:16.910 sigh in deciding their subconscious they 1:56:15.410,1:56:19.040 just knew in the gut that it's a good 1:56:16.910,1:56:21.080 idea and that kind of thing will save a 1:56:19.040,1:56:23.090 lot in Bitcoin as the procreation and 1:56:21.080,1:56:27.260 adoption goals and it feels just a 1:56:23.090,1:56:29.540 matter of I it is it's the it is a can't 1:56:27.260,1:56:33.800 alone effect so I think it is a 1:56:29.540,1:56:38.270 cantilever no or something else in fact 1:56:33.800,1:56:41.390 is about money being sent first to the 1:56:38.270,1:56:43.220 bankers it's that one it's that one so 1:56:41.390,1:56:45.320 there is another effect I forgot his 1:56:43.220,1:56:48.500 name it says like the more I think 1:56:45.320,1:56:50.780 exists the higher the chance in future 1:56:48.500,1:56:57.710 it will exist what what's that effect I 1:56:50.780,1:56:59.780 don't affect I don't know it's not 1:56:57.710,1:57:02.300 coming in my head right now it is an 1:56:59.780,1:57:04.100 effect like like that I happen so it's 1:57:02.300,1:57:06.590 the same thing so the more Bitcoin 1:57:04.100,1:57:08.930 exists the higher confidence people have 1:57:06.590,1:57:10.040 that Bitcoin will exist 10 years more so 1:57:08.930,1:57:11.660 in 20 years 1:57:10.040,1:57:14.239 higher confident people will have that 1:57:11.660,1:57:15.830 Bitcoin will exist 30 in 50 years higher 1:57:14.239,1:57:17.930 confident they will have that Bitcoin 1:57:15.830,1:57:20.450 will exist 15 year ago so this is how 1:57:17.930,1:57:22.610 confidence and counter confidence builds 1:57:20.450,1:57:25.610 up the god build builds of the 1:57:22.610,1:57:27.560 capability of society to have trust on a 1:57:25.610,1:57:28.910 particular kind of asset as a store of 1:57:27.560,1:57:32.150 value and that's how money getting 1:57:28.910,1:57:34.850 mediums emerges out of it so this kind 1:57:32.150,1:57:36.950 of thing will happen in Bitcoin and it 1:57:34.850,1:57:38.600 is very difficult to precisely figure 1:57:36.950,1:57:40.970 out or precisely try to predict what 1:57:38.600,1:57:43.520 exactly we will see what exactly how 1:57:40.970,1:57:46.880 will happen but yeah we kind of get a 1:57:43.520,1:57:49.940 sense we kind of judge a sense of where 1:57:46.880,1:57:52.510 this direction can go and yeah we just 1:57:49.940,1:57:52.510 have to wait and watch 1:57:52.840,1:57:57.050 I'm not sure if I have any more 1:57:55.190,1:57:58.040 questions for you this was a very 1:57:57.050,1:58:00.110 lengthy and 1:57:58.040,1:58:02.810 well structured discussion which somehow 1:58:00.110,1:58:06.350 came full circle we started from the 1:58:02.810,1:58:09.290 idea of gold in India and we returned to 1:58:06.350,1:58:12.110 it as a belief system 1:58:09.290,1:58:14.210 it was a traditional way of storing 1:58:12.110,1:58:17.360 value and then we discussed about how 1:58:14.210,1:58:19.550 gold in itself is a cult and what you 1:58:17.360,1:58:21.830 believe that it has value you're no 1:58:19.550,1:58:24.860 longer question it's my ability on the 1:58:21.830,1:58:27.470 market and this right there you know 1:58:24.860,1:58:30.680 that it has value and you're supposed to 1:58:27.470,1:58:32.750 either hold it or transact it or melt it 1:58:30.680,1:58:35.840 because people have been doing it for so 1:58:32.750,1:58:38.570 many centuries that you can no longer 1:58:35.840,1:58:42.590 track where it all started 1:58:38.570,1:58:44.810 you have no idea why it's golden the 1:58:42.590,1:58:46.910 question of why is not existing in this 1:58:44.810,1:58:48.770 kind of system so that's that's a 1:58:46.910,1:58:54.890 property of cults the question of why 1:58:48.770,1:58:58.070 doesn't exist exactly so thank you very 1:58:54.890,1:59:00.650 much for this interview it was very good 1:58:58.070,1:59:03.260 very insightful I didn't know what to 1:59:00.650,1:59:05.810 expect when we first started and even 1:59:03.260,1:59:08.480 though I guess the beginning was a bit 1:59:05.810,1:59:10.640 rough as I was a bit sleepy it's very 1:59:08.480,1:59:13.340 early in the morning here and we had to 1:59:10.640,1:59:18.020 adapt schedules we ended up having a 1:59:13.340,1:59:25.340 very good conversation which I look 1:59:18.020,1:59:27.290 forward to listening to it I remind 1:59:25.340,1:59:31.670 myself some ideas which you pass to me 1:59:27.290,1:59:34.760 of which I didn't think before yeah it 1:59:31.670,1:59:37.040 is fascinating every time I have 1:59:34.760,1:59:38.990 conversations on Bitcoin I seem to have 1:59:37.040,1:59:42.080 gather new ideas that I haven't thought 1:59:38.990,1:59:44.900 of before so there are many ideas that I 1:59:42.080,1:59:47.630 have said that just came to me right now 1:59:44.900,1:59:49.490 that haven't occurred to me before and 1:59:47.630,1:59:51.290 that's why I enjoy talking about Bitcoin 1:59:49.490,1:59:53.120 because it opens up in all sorts of 1:59:51.290,1:59:54.500 different ways that you can't just 1:59:53.120,1:59:56.510 expect what will happen where the 1:59:54.500,1:59:59.690 conversation and that's just fascinating 1:59:56.510,2:00:03.380 and so much enjoy yeah exactly that's 1:59:59.690,2:00:06.050 why I do this podcast not only that I 2:00:03.380,2:00:09.350 get to brag about it on Twitter but most 2:00:06.050,2:00:11.930 importantly I get to learn yeah true 2:00:09.350,2:00:14.270 otherwise there wouldn't have been an 2:00:11.930,2:00:17.180 efficient way for me to learn this ideas 2:00:14.270,2:00:21.350 and understand how it it works in India 2:00:17.180,2:00:25.490 and get a insider's view basically 2:00:21.350,2:00:27.290 yes I'm very grateful for this and I 2:00:25.490,2:00:29.270 guess I will publish this very fast 2:00:27.290,2:00:33.110 maybe by the end of the day it will be 2:00:29.270,2:00:33.800 online so we can share it thanks for 2:00:33.110,2:00:35.990 having me 2:00:33.800,2:00:38.180 if you have any closing statements or 2:00:35.990,2:00:40.040 maybe you want to say hello to anyone 2:00:38.180,2:00:42.580 who might be listening to this this is 2:00:40.040,2:00:42.580 your last chance 2:00:44.480,2:00:47.780 just for general statements taxes that's 2:00:47.390,2:00:50.320 it 2:00:47.780,2:00:53.780 what's wrong with you to do its taxes 2:00:50.320,2:00:55.130 okay have a nice rest of your day and 2:00:53.780,2:00:57.440 I'll talk to you later 2:00:55.130,2:00:59.300 yeah have a nice day - it has been 2:00:57.440,2:01:04.000 fascinating conversation thanks what 2:00:59.300,2:01:04.000 happened bye Roz bye