S2 E5: Karo Zagorus on Bitcoin in Hungary and the Sociology of BTC
On June 29th 2019, I’ve had the pleasure to talk to the Hungarian bitcoiner and sociologist Karo Zagorus. As a member of the Bitcoin Plebs movement on Twitter and Telegram, the academic often resorts to memes and moralistic name-calling of scammers. But when he gets the chance to speak his mind and tackle important issues, Karo proves himself to be an articulate and well-informed conversationalist.
Throughout the 90 minutes of this podcast, you will get to find out more information about the Bitcoin communities from Hungary and their significance, while also getting a better understanding of how political elites may make use of Satoshi Nakamoto’s invention.
Since both of us come from Central and Eastern European countries and have similar academic backgrounds, you will be able to find many points of convergence. Obviously, not everything is the same and you will get to hear about some social phenomena that are unique in either Romania or Hungary.
If you’d like to listen to the episode, you can find it on both YouTube and Apple Podcasts. If you need a quicker way of accessing the content, you may also use the RSS feed. All of the sources are hyperlinked.
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0:00:00.580,0:00:25.800 [Music] 0:00:27.810,0:00:34.020 [Music] 0:00:45.290,0:00:48.790 [Music] 0:00:46.530,0:00:49.780 hello and welcome to the Bitcoin 0:00:48.790,0:00:52.530 takeover 0:00:49.780,0:00:55.330 I am glad and my guest today is the 0:00:52.530,0:00:59.320 Hungarian Bitcoin there Carozza chorus 0:00:55.330,0:01:03.670 who is a member of the very burgeoning 0:00:59.320,0:01:06.220 and rather expanding and interesting 0:01:03.670,0:01:08.590 movement of Bitcoin plebs who are 0:01:06.220,0:01:13.030 establishing groups on telegram and 0:01:08.590,0:01:15.400 trying to basically talk Bitcoin matters 0:01:13.030,0:01:17.560 as individuals who have educated 0:01:15.400,0:01:20.550 themselves and have reached a level 0:01:17.560,0:01:24.040 where they no longer require to follow 0:01:20.550,0:01:26.940 big figures and influencers and to me 0:01:24.040,0:01:30.190 it's very interesting that we get to do 0:01:26.940,0:01:33.460 podcasts with people or rather unknown 0:01:30.190,0:01:36.430 within the larger community but are part 0:01:33.460,0:01:38.890 of a niche which in itself is trying to 0:01:36.430,0:01:43.240 find its own identity and establish 0:01:38.890,0:01:45.930 itself as a force within the larger 0:01:43.240,0:01:50.650 Bitcoin community so hello Caro 0:01:45.930,0:01:53.710 ok nice thank you nice to meet you too 0:01:50.650,0:01:55.300 how is it going it's going fine quite 0:01:53.710,0:02:00.250 quite a hot letter in Hungary but it's 0:01:55.300,0:02:02.770 doing ok yeah I heard that you're doing 0:02:00.250,0:02:04.920 a master's in social sciences and it's 0:02:02.770,0:02:08.890 interesting with these Bitcoin plebs 0:02:04.920,0:02:10.840 that I'm also part of that we're not 0:02:08.890,0:02:13.900 quite plebs all of us are pretty 0:02:10.840,0:02:16.720 educated individuals who have a lot of 0:02:13.900,0:02:19.000 interesting stuff to say so do you work 0:02:16.720,0:02:22.690 on anything related to Bitcoin in 0:02:19.000,0:02:24.610 regards to your research well basically 0:02:22.690,0:02:26.440 what I'm doing is I'm examining how 0:02:24.610,0:02:29.230 institutions are breaching our trust and 0:02:26.440,0:02:31.390 how this is basically X trading bitcoins 0:02:29.230,0:02:34.000 adoption process and just you can't mean 0:02:31.390,0:02:37.000 like how how like banks are you know 0:02:34.000,0:02:39.370 abusing people's money producing like 0:02:37.000,0:02:41.950 the value creating and then how earlier 0:02:39.370,0:02:44.860 you kind of misusing that the deposit 0:02:41.950,0:02:46.420 for different banks for example and how 0:02:44.860,0:02:50.900 they kind of stabilizes people stress 0:02:46.420,0:02:53.329 tours banks that's actually 0:02:50.900,0:02:56.510 the topic to research but what is the 0:02:53.329,0:03:00.319 scale of it or what kind of sources or 0:02:56.510,0:03:02.450 examples you provide basically I'm in a 0:03:00.319,0:03:05.150 couple books then I've been moving into 0:03:02.450,0:03:07.849 like the first I read was a was 0:03:05.150,0:03:09.859 examining at how Francis Fukuyama in his 0:03:07.849,0:03:13.519 book called trust was was describing how 0:03:09.859,0:03:15.620 Trust is formed how you know the the 0:03:13.519,0:03:18.709 culture you know going to be born into 0:03:15.620,0:03:20.569 in in countries and places and you know 0:03:18.709,0:03:24.230 like how it kind of divides the baby 0:03:20.569,0:03:26.720 trust things like a like like for some 0:03:24.230,0:03:29.030 in Asian countries how it's harder to 0:03:26.720,0:03:31.700 get out and get out out of the family 0:03:29.030,0:03:33.829 structures of trust and start bringing 0:03:31.700,0:03:35.930 other people into into your trust 0:03:33.829,0:03:37.069 it was resentful equity companies and he 0:03:35.930,0:03:38.599 was really looking into these things 0:03:37.069,0:03:39.739 like how you know they can create 0:03:38.599,0:03:41.510 posterity throughout you know with 0:03:39.739,0:03:43.849 larger corporations and then their 0:03:41.510,0:03:46.099 family is not enough to keep companies 0:03:43.849,0:03:47.900 running and it was kind of interesting 0:03:46.099,0:03:49.549 to me that kind of gave me the the basis 0:03:47.900,0:03:52.370 for understanding trust how it kind of 0:03:49.549,0:03:53.840 functions and you know I could sort of 0:03:52.370,0:03:56.480 entering into the more the banking world 0:03:53.840,0:03:59.030 with with Lisa severance book called 0:03:56.480,0:04:02.209 dawn banking America it was quite an 0:03:59.030,0:04:03.739 interesting take on like how basically 0:04:02.209,0:04:05.180 America's lowering the classes being 0:04:03.739,0:04:06.709 pushed out of the banking system how do 0:04:05.180,0:04:08.959 you becoming more unpack their on their 0:04:06.709,0:04:11.449 bank and like how this whole system 0:04:08.959,0:04:13.970 becomes much more unaccessible for them 0:04:11.449,0:04:17.030 and and more it's kind of shocking for 0:04:13.970,0:04:18.620 me that more than 180 128 million people 0:04:17.030,0:04:21.530 in America are basically financially 0:04:18.620,0:04:23.210 struggling and then even offer they 0:04:21.530,0:04:25.550 don't even have access to normal and 0:04:23.210,0:04:27.139 financial services and they kind of 0:04:25.550,0:04:29.000 forced to use check cashing services 0:04:27.139,0:04:33.440 like write check or payday lenders for 0:04:29.000,0:04:35.210 them that's interesting knowing that we 0:04:33.440,0:04:38.030 are speaking of the most developed 0:04:35.210,0:04:42.440 country in the world which also sets the 0:04:38.030,0:04:45.050 standard to the rest of the world yeah 0:04:42.440,0:04:47.120 like it's quite stunning that the 0:04:45.050,0:04:48.979 America supposed to be land the screen 0:04:47.120,0:04:51.500 in the most of this country and powerful 0:04:48.979,0:04:53.240 country on earth but when you look at 0:04:51.500,0:04:54.979 like how they are clearing your the 0:04:53.240,0:04:56.930 checks for your dumpling banks it takes 0:04:54.979,0:05:00.200 like four days to clear cheque but for 0:04:56.930,0:05:02.430 example in in Europe famous usually live 0:05:00.200,0:05:05.460 within a day or so or two 0:05:02.430,0:05:09.330 or two three days really much for sooner 0:05:05.460,0:05:11.040 in the SEPA zone but but it just just 0:05:09.330,0:05:13.140 quite starting from me that the the 0:05:11.040,0:05:15.540 system they're using is just so book 0:05:13.140,0:05:18.000 down appears to me like that you know 0:05:15.540,0:05:20.520 the lobbied that banks have and all kind 0:05:18.000,0:05:24.170 of organizations that are out there are 0:05:20.520,0:05:27.510 basically keeping the system as you know 0:05:24.170,0:05:29.040 full of friction then you know you know 0:05:27.510,0:05:30.510 removing these kind of frictions and 0:05:29.040,0:05:32.700 then you know their comments in the 0:05:30.510,0:05:34.800 companies that leave the server on and 0:05:32.700,0:05:37.260 talks about I cannot think she was 0:05:34.800,0:05:39.570 bamboo still at some point is she kind 0:05:37.260,0:05:43.350 of went to talk about a company that I 0:05:39.570,0:05:46.770 really hate I think I should say its 0:05:43.350,0:05:48.930 name but they also in the blockchain 0:05:46.770,0:05:51.540 space they are the certain biggest 0:05:48.930,0:05:54.930 cryptocurrency there I would still 0:05:51.540,0:05:56.760 really big shit coin and she just 0:05:54.930,0:06:00.150 totally failed to understand the 0:05:56.760,0:06:01.950 underlying problem here because in the 0:06:00.150,0:06:04.650 end book she never really thinks about 0:06:01.950,0:06:06.990 doctor and sees what did coin and this 0:06:04.650,0:06:08.550 is interesting because she was out there 0:06:06.990,0:06:09.900 to you know figure out what is the 0:06:08.550,0:06:11.760 problem and how it can be solved if 0:06:09.900,0:06:13.590 instead she she just resorted back to 0:06:11.760,0:06:15.000 the old system that we have and look for 0:06:13.590,0:06:17.070 like alternative companies offering 0:06:15.000,0:06:19.740 ultimate financial institutions that 0:06:17.070,0:06:22.440 provide like better service like venmo 0:06:19.740,0:06:25.020 or or I don't know what I asked she was 0:06:22.440,0:06:26.820 talking about it was interesting for me 0:06:25.020,0:06:28.230 she totally missed the point of the 0:06:26.820,0:06:30.870 entire thing and she didn't even 0:06:28.230,0:06:33.480 consider it which I find really shocking 0:06:30.870,0:06:36.210 in her book could you say again who this 0:06:33.480,0:06:38.370 is about because I'm not sure if the 0:06:36.210,0:06:40.740 signal is bad or I wasn't paying enough 0:06:38.370,0:06:44.010 attention but I didn't catch okay 0:06:40.740,0:06:50.910 Kristen it's it leaves a Sarah bond and 0:06:44.010,0:06:54.450 Fe are gon okay I'm banking America how 0:06:50.910,0:06:58.130 the new middle class survives so you 0:06:54.450,0:07:00.900 read her book yeah now at the entire 0:06:58.130,0:07:02.670 disagreements well quite some 0:07:00.900,0:07:04.170 disagreements III don't really think 0:07:02.670,0:07:04.830 that she was approaching it from the 0:07:04.170,0:07:06.810 right way 0:07:04.830,0:07:08.880 mostly partly because she was stuck in 0:07:06.810,0:07:10.680 the old world but I cannot consider most 0:07:08.880,0:07:13.110 people are stuck in especially the 0:07:10.680,0:07:14.529 educated people who don't really believe 0:07:13.110,0:07:17.949 and it's going and other kind of 0:07:14.529,0:07:20.349 things you know and then and then after 0:07:17.949,0:07:22.479 prefers stuff for the mousse is a to 0:07:20.349,0:07:25.659 Bitcoin standard kana you know totally 0:07:22.479,0:07:27.189 changed the theory of my thesis I was 0:07:25.659,0:07:28.389 working on because you know in the 0:07:27.189,0:07:30.609 beginning I kind of thought that the 0:07:28.389,0:07:33.639 trust was somehow was being eroded 0:07:30.609,0:07:35.949 naturally that from the 80s something 0:07:33.639,0:07:39.279 have happened and it was accelerated by 0:07:35.949,0:07:40.779 the 2008 financial crisis but it wasn't 0:07:39.279,0:07:42.579 like that it started much more earlier 0:07:40.779,0:07:44.559 with the Keynesian economics kinda you 0:07:42.579,0:07:46.959 know changed how society functions it 0:07:44.559,0:07:48.999 raised people's time preference up high 0:07:46.959,0:07:50.769 and then you know how governments are 0:07:48.999,0:07:53.049 using aggregate is stunning you know 0:07:50.769,0:07:54.939 raise GDP level and things like that and 0:07:53.049,0:07:57.189 it just originated from Kingston self 0:07:54.939,0:07:58.749 and it's kinda you know is now you know 0:07:57.189,0:08:00.429 the consequence of that system that we 0:07:58.749,0:08:03.219 we have right now and it's interesting 0:08:00.429,0:08:05.019 that even today they are still being 0:08:03.219,0:08:07.149 taught about these genies in economics 0:08:05.019,0:08:10.719 right now it's just shocking 0:08:07.149,0:08:12.909 for me at least well there is a lot of 0:08:10.719,0:08:15.459 people who trust the system and don't 0:08:12.909,0:08:18.579 see any points of changing it and they 0:08:15.459,0:08:21.459 will reply to any criticism in the lines 0:08:18.579,0:08:24.519 of we are working on it and it can be 0:08:21.459,0:08:26.349 better and whatever that they're going 0:08:24.519,0:08:29.169 to point out that they have done 0:08:26.349,0:08:31.059 something which worked they will say 0:08:29.169,0:08:34.329 well we have taken many nations out of 0:08:31.059,0:08:37.180 poverty with this system of relentless 0:08:34.329,0:08:40.899 and never-ending loans that countries 0:08:37.180,0:08:44.680 take without ever doing so wrong they 0:08:40.899,0:08:47.290 will be paying back and along the lines 0:08:44.680,0:08:50.970 of what you said you reminded me of what 0:08:47.290,0:08:53.230 Nick Szabo has written and he is a 0:08:50.970,0:08:57.490 first-generation American whose father 0:08:53.230,0:08:59.920 was Hungarian so I guess you have a lot 0:08:57.490,0:09:02.740 in common with him but he wrote very 0:08:59.920,0:09:06.699 interesting research papers on social 0:09:02.740,0:09:11.139 scalability and how trust propagates 0:09:06.699,0:09:13.420 along societies I didn't manage to read 0:09:11.139,0:09:15.759 any of his work right now I was dying to 0:09:13.420,0:09:17.110 read shelling out and after the next 0:09:15.759,0:09:19.980 book I'm reading because I have to read 0:09:17.110,0:09:24.809 max papers book called 0:09:19.980,0:09:27.160 was it I think it was the spirit of 0:09:24.809,0:09:29.990 capitalism 0:09:27.160,0:09:31.670 and the Protestant work ethic and the 0:09:29.990,0:09:33.589 spirit of capitalism but I wasn't really 0:09:31.670,0:09:35.990 sure how I could tie this to the whole 0:09:33.589,0:09:37.790 thing because I was told after the trend 0:09:35.990,0:09:39.589 basically the thesis was transformed 0:09:37.790,0:09:42.440 that I should read more about you know a 0:09:39.589,0:09:44.060 society sociology but I just wasn't 0:09:42.440,0:09:46.670 really sure about it probably gonna read 0:09:44.060,0:09:49.940 it because there is probably something 0:09:46.670,0:09:52.519 wrong I'm religion too but I don't know 0:09:49.940,0:09:54.950 I'm not sure about it right now I'm not 0:09:52.519,0:09:57.230 aware of any books that nick szabo might 0:09:54.950,0:10:01.310 have written but he has that very 0:09:57.230,0:10:05.540 well-documented blog of his where he he 0:10:01.310,0:10:08.209 has a very long post about social skill 0:10:05.540,0:10:11.240 ability and it relates to human biology 0:10:08.209,0:10:13.310 and the way our brains work and the fact 0:10:11.240,0:10:16.640 that since we have evolved as a species 0:10:13.310,0:10:20.269 our brains have remained the same and 0:10:16.640,0:10:23.240 maybe that we are capable of carrying 0:10:20.269,0:10:25.490 about 50 people at a time but at the 0:10:23.240,0:10:27.980 same time our societies have evolved 0:10:25.490,0:10:32.480 into city-states 0:10:27.980,0:10:35.000 much larger and metropolis and it's hard 0:10:32.480,0:10:37.220 for us to actually be engaged and care 0:10:35.000,0:10:39.410 about everybody when we are part of 0:10:37.220,0:10:42.770 these societies and that's why he 0:10:39.410,0:10:47.750 proposes technology as a way of reducing 0:10:42.770,0:10:50.600 the amounts of trust and enabling us to 0:10:47.750,0:10:54.980 have better solutions to govern 0:10:50.600,0:11:00.399 ourselves he has some very interesting 0:10:54.980,0:11:03.770 ideas which I guess most most are 0:11:00.399,0:11:08.980 original mostly thanks to his expertise 0:11:03.770,0:11:13.250 in smart contracts and cryptocurrencies 0:11:08.980,0:11:15.199 yeah I mean really fascinating I do 0:11:13.250,0:11:18.529 think that most thing you said is really 0:11:15.199,0:11:20.060 really great but also we had to think 0:11:18.529,0:11:21.770 about it's like you know like like how 0:11:20.060,0:11:23.810 we can you know bridge trust because you 0:11:21.770,0:11:25.279 can see that like in the modern world 0:11:23.810,0:11:27.320 especially after that went to the 0:11:25.279,0:11:29.029 internet you know trust become we have 0:11:27.320,0:11:32.779 to become much more you know like how do 0:11:29.029,0:11:34.880 I say not decentralized like we have to 0:11:32.779,0:11:36.770 reach Bridgette because you know we can 0:11:34.880,0:11:38.720 see it like how our trust is being 0:11:36.770,0:11:40.630 eroded and you know when our trust is 0:11:38.720,0:11:44.740 being eroded it's really impossible to 0:11:40.630,0:11:46.810 reveal let's begin is a like for example 0:11:44.740,0:11:48.520 if if we start distrusting politicians 0:11:46.810,0:11:50.350 for example and it's getting much more 0:11:48.520,0:11:52.390 harder to choose another one another 0:11:50.350,0:11:54.430 party we have to go to a different kind 0:11:52.390,0:11:56.740 of process there to you know to choose 0:11:54.430,0:11:57.940 somebody it's very different and it's 0:11:56.740,0:11:59.890 just kind of different and this is where 0:11:57.940,0:12:01.450 the smart constricting starts coming in 0:11:59.890,0:12:03.790 what summer was talking about it we 0:12:01.450,0:12:05.320 could you know start putting laws and 0:12:03.790,0:12:07.750 regulation of the blockchain that are 0:12:05.320,0:12:09.370 much more you know transparent or 0:12:07.750,0:12:12.940 understandable and it's easier to you 0:12:09.370,0:12:16.300 know to how do I say that like when 0:12:12.940,0:12:18.550 there's litigation going on or something 0:12:16.300,0:12:20.560 for example it could you know do 0:12:18.550,0:12:21.910 something about it which I do agree with 0:12:20.560,0:12:24.400 it's just quite an interesting thought 0:12:21.910,0:12:25.750 there most people was arguing against 0:12:24.400,0:12:29.230 thing though but I think this is a 0:12:25.750,0:12:33.240 really interesting point he said right 0:12:29.230,0:12:40.210 so how and why did it get into Bitcoin 0:12:33.240,0:12:41.890 well basically around 2016 got into 0:12:40.210,0:12:45.130 Bitcoin through one of my friend who 0:12:41.890,0:12:47.110 gave me a little bit and I kind of spent 0:12:45.130,0:12:51.310 it because the price was kind of 0:12:47.110,0:12:53.050 crashing at that time and afterwards I 0:12:51.310,0:12:55.360 can you don't forget about it because 0:12:53.050,0:12:57.640 you know I kind of didn't really care 0:12:55.360,0:13:00.640 about it I first time at its coiner 0:12:57.640,0:13:02.950 around in 2011 when I heard about it I 0:13:00.640,0:13:07.090 thought about of at home and I can't 0:13:02.950,0:13:09.760 examine it might equal in 2010 I think 0:13:07.090,0:13:11.770 it's the 2011 yeah and and then I didn't 0:13:09.760,0:13:13.150 really care about it I kind of thought 0:13:11.770,0:13:15.130 it was a Ponzi scheme and everything 0:13:13.150,0:13:19.330 else even during 2016 I was like you 0:13:15.130,0:13:23.950 know thinking on these terms but then it 0:13:19.330,0:13:26.890 can I you know started changing more 0:13:23.950,0:13:28.120 into the ways like let's say investing 0:13:26.890,0:13:31.090 into things trying to you know make 0:13:28.120,0:13:33.130 money and especially in 2017 and that's 0:13:31.090,0:13:36.760 when I you know I got into the got 0:13:33.130,0:13:37.810 intimated coin I said earlier and I kind 0:13:36.760,0:13:40.780 of you know made a little bit of money 0:13:37.810,0:13:42.250 on it and after the price of the 0:13:40.780,0:13:44.470 crashing I you know started thinking 0:13:42.250,0:13:46.900 about this whole thing what these things 0:13:44.470,0:13:49.270 are and how they work and this is how 0:13:46.900,0:13:50.230 you like how I kind of naturally develop 0:13:49.270,0:13:52.270 this thinking about you know 0:13:50.230,0:13:53.200 cryptocurrency is a good point like how 0:13:52.270,0:13:55.269 they kind of function 0:13:53.200,0:13:58.600 they do what they achieve and why they 0:13:55.269,0:14:01.690 exist and that's how I can arrest point 0:13:58.600,0:14:03.730 that point that everything I did so far 0:14:01.690,0:14:07.680 was just you know just interacting with 0:14:03.730,0:14:09.880 scam coins or all kinds of bullshit and 0:14:07.680,0:14:11.949 basically just doesn't really hurt the 0:14:09.880,0:14:13.720 way I wanted it to work and that's when 0:14:11.949,0:14:15.550 I realized that there's nothing else 0:14:13.720,0:14:17.889 beyond it coin that actually makes sense 0:14:15.550,0:14:20.410 or or has any point in through its 0:14:17.889,0:14:22.089 existence and then I started looking at 0:14:20.410,0:14:25.149 other things like what kind of a culture 0:14:22.089,0:14:27.070 Bitcoin created to anthropological true 0:14:25.149,0:14:30.510 for the distances is quite stunning you 0:14:27.070,0:14:34.870 can see all art music pictures means 0:14:30.510,0:14:37.269 everything on the Internet you can see 0:14:34.870,0:14:41.500 things like the changes it brings into 0:14:37.269,0:14:43.839 society the like how it dramatically 0:14:41.500,0:14:46.269 lowered my time preference figures I'm 0:14:43.839,0:14:49.269 sorry that's just crazy I used to spend 0:14:46.269,0:14:52.889 a lot more money than then before course 0:14:49.269,0:14:55.570 it's like I mean then right now I mean 0:14:52.889,0:14:57.190 it's also interesting and it just kind 0:14:55.570,0:14:59.890 of like you know keeps me confirming the 0:14:57.190,0:15:01.570 theory that this is the only system that 0:14:59.890,0:15:05.680 actually makes sense and this is the 0:15:01.570,0:15:07.690 only system basically oh I'm not sure if 0:15:05.680,0:15:10.300 it's the only system but it's a very 0:15:07.690,0:15:12.970 good solution to counter the current 0:15:10.300,0:15:16.720 economic and political forces that we 0:15:12.970,0:15:19.089 are dealing with in this world and I was 0:15:16.720,0:15:21.490 having this conversation earlier with 0:15:19.089,0:15:25.720 Raj a guy from India pom I've 0:15:21.490,0:15:29.050 interviewed and he I basically asked him 0:15:25.720,0:15:33.070 how do we distinguish Bitcoin from a 0:15:29.050,0:15:34.930 cult and even though I had an idea in my 0:15:33.070,0:15:37.300 mind which I was ready to present he 0:15:34.930,0:15:40.600 said no we are a cult I'm fine with the 0:15:37.300,0:15:43.089 idea we are a bona fide cult which has 0:15:40.600,0:15:44.410 all the elements and I don't see why 0:15:43.089,0:15:46.720 there's anything wrong with it 0:15:44.410,0:15:50.139 and I was partially surprised by the 0:15:46.720,0:15:52.779 answer as at least we in the West have a 0:15:50.139,0:15:57.339 different understanding of what cults 0:15:52.779,0:16:00.430 are but he also had educated explanation 0:15:57.339,0:16:03.010 on why we are a cult and why it's 0:16:00.430,0:16:06.190 important for us to propagate some 0:16:03.010,0:16:06.940 ideological perspectives in order to 0:16:06.190,0:16:09.610 make Bitcoin 0:16:06.940,0:16:12.730 scale and why each of us is incentivized 0:16:09.610,0:16:18.030 to talk about Bitcoin to everybody 0:16:12.730,0:16:18.030 around them in order to spread adoption 0:16:19.260,0:16:27.820 colleges I think there is probably some 0:16:24.720,0:16:29.920 behavior here but you know you need to 0:16:27.820,0:16:32.590 like gonna look at some other underlying 0:16:29.920,0:16:35.020 things too like for example ever since 0:16:32.590,0:16:37.990 the end of World War two we had more 0:16:35.020,0:16:40.600 than 60 years of 60 years of peace right 0:16:37.990,0:16:42.730 now and and you know this is basically 0:16:40.600,0:16:45.940 because of you know how he was able to 0:16:42.730,0:16:47.350 reach consensus and you know this kind 0:16:45.940,0:16:48.880 of reflects thoughts in Bitcoin that 0:16:47.350,0:16:50.590 that people finally were able to you 0:16:48.880,0:16:52.720 know find consensus in value 0:16:50.590,0:16:55.420 it's like value basically transformed 0:16:52.720,0:16:58.090 for them and and even you know true 0:16:55.420,0:17:00.850 technology and now it is able to have a 0:16:58.090,0:17:03.910 constant value not that you're producing 0:17:00.850,0:17:05.410 money in in some burger job and then 0:17:03.910,0:17:07.120 you're hearing like let's feel like 3000 0:17:05.410,0:17:08.709 euros and then the European Central 0:17:07.120,0:17:10.180 Bank's basic needs it's the money and 0:17:08.709,0:17:11.770 then a couple years later you only have 0:17:10.180,0:17:14.949 like two thousand eight hundred even 0:17:11.770,0:17:16.630 less and this is interesting because the 0:17:14.949,0:17:19.060 whole thing that Bitcoin keep I mean the 0:17:16.630,0:17:20.650 whole you know it kind of gives us the 0:17:19.060,0:17:23.110 inherent value for Bitcoin is basically 0:17:20.650,0:17:25.060 the societal consensus behind it that 0:17:23.110,0:17:27.400 people agree on it that it is a form of 0:17:25.060,0:17:28.930 money that the free market decided on it 0:17:27.400,0:17:31.360 and and basically this is a really 0:17:28.930,0:17:33.490 beautiful thing and and you know this 0:17:31.360,0:17:35.680 here comes in the cult the cult aspect 0:17:33.490,0:17:37.240 basically they're not really a call to 0:17:35.680,0:17:39.220 spectrum or like even like like a 0:17:37.240,0:17:42.190 defense mechanism you know but this 0:17:39.220,0:17:44.170 kinda can be more toxic maximalism 0:17:42.190,0:17:45.970 basically that you know people will 0:17:44.170,0:17:48.790 really care about it because they see 0:17:45.970,0:17:50.770 that what kind of a promising future it 0:17:48.790,0:17:53.440 can bring and people kind of you know 0:17:50.770,0:17:55.810 start defending its value proposition 0:17:53.440,0:17:57.940 and start prepare defending it from 0:17:55.810,0:18:01.050 outside attackers try to impede on its 0:17:57.940,0:18:04.600 value or its or it's a rich technology 0:18:01.050,0:18:09.250 like you can see like how the the no 2x 0:18:04.600,0:18:12.160 or you ASF movements kind of play down 0:18:09.250,0:18:14.950 and basically that kind of nutshell 0:18:12.160,0:18:20.570 beasts me tells like how the space is 0:18:14.950,0:18:23.840 and and just really great so 0:18:20.570,0:18:25.850 the Bitcoin scene like in Hungary I know 0:18:23.840,0:18:28.549 that we come from neighboring countries 0:18:25.850,0:18:30.139 but honestly I think I've only been to 0:18:28.549,0:18:32.720 Hungary a couple of times and it was 0:18:30.139,0:18:36.860 only Budapest and I was not into Bitcoin 0:18:32.720,0:18:40.070 at the time oh yeah it's quite an 0:18:36.860,0:18:43.070 interesting story I managed to get into 0:18:40.070,0:18:45.289 Hungarian crypto trader group which was 0:18:43.070,0:18:46.610 I think was the only one that was 0:18:45.289,0:18:48.169 operation but I'm not really sure about 0:18:46.610,0:18:50.630 it I was banned in a couple minutes 0:18:48.169,0:18:52.009 after that because I were just talking 0:18:50.630,0:18:54.259 about Bitcoin and like how they should 0:18:52.009,0:18:57.440 coins out you know being for data in the 0:18:54.259,0:19:00.460 group and didn't really like it but I 0:18:57.440,0:19:03.529 know a couple guys who also live nearby 0:19:00.460,0:19:05.720 they are also more into eater and that's 0:19:03.529,0:19:09.110 quite a problem and a kind of pattern 0:19:05.720,0:19:10.549 that I see here that Hungarians always 0:19:09.110,0:19:13.429 tried to look for something better and 0:19:10.549,0:19:15.470 they never really content with with the 0:19:13.429,0:19:17.330 new things that kind of make sense for 0:19:15.470,0:19:19.759 them like they only want to improve on 0:19:17.330,0:19:22.070 things they don't only find useful for 0:19:19.759,0:19:23.809 them and that's how you know somehow I 0:19:22.070,0:19:26.179 kind of thinking that the more the more 0:19:23.809,0:19:28.580 Hungarians are using ET right now then 0:19:26.179,0:19:30.500 probably Bitcoin because they're not 0:19:28.580,0:19:31.610 really understanding the whole aspect of 0:19:30.500,0:19:34.340 it or you're just trying to you know 0:19:31.610,0:19:35.960 make money through speculation and it's 0:19:34.340,0:19:37.639 kind of said that I never really managed 0:19:35.960,0:19:39.169 to get under the best to see you know 0:19:37.639,0:19:42.200 bitcoins faces because I don't really 0:19:39.169,0:19:45.470 like networking or talking talking with 0:19:42.200,0:19:50.570 hungarians is just quite alien for 0:19:45.470,0:19:54.529 either the whole culture yeah yeah quite 0:19:50.570,0:19:57.830 a long time but let's say that I come to 0:19:54.529,0:20:01.429 Hungary one day and I have no money and 0:19:57.830,0:20:04.610 I have to survive only with some 0:20:01.429,0:20:08.419 bitcoins will I be able to buy stuff or 0:20:04.610,0:20:09.740 convince people to accept Bitcoin you 0:20:08.419,0:20:12.980 feel really able to buy 0:20:09.740,0:20:15.649 electronical stuff I know that and 0:20:12.980,0:20:17.480 there's a company called I don't want to 0:20:15.649,0:20:20.059 start this but there is a major 0:20:17.480,0:20:21.860 electrics company and hungry that accept 0:20:20.059,0:20:25.250 Bitcoin but they're using the place so 0:20:21.860,0:20:27.139 that's quite an honor but the audit I 0:20:25.250,0:20:29.389 don't think you could say you could buy 0:20:27.139,0:20:31.460 food with it I don't really know any 0:20:29.389,0:20:33.110 places really combined I know there's 0:20:31.460,0:20:36.260 some jewelers here 0:20:33.110,0:20:38.930 and accept it I'm not really sure you 0:20:36.260,0:20:41.540 would survive to be honest it's not that 0:20:38.930,0:20:44.720 advanced here I've read an article in 0:20:41.540,0:20:48.560 Bitcoin magazine about a year ago or 0:20:44.720,0:20:51.800 something do you still hear me yeah I 0:20:48.560,0:20:53.540 can still hear magazine I got a message 0:20:51.800,0:20:54.830 on my screen which said that my 0:20:53.540,0:20:57.830 connection is unstable 0:20:54.830,0:21:00.080 do you still hear me okay I'm here okay 0:20:57.830,0:21:03.020 so there was an article in Bitcoin 0:21:00.080,0:21:05.150 magazine which I read and it was about a 0:21:03.020,0:21:09.940 guy who tried to survive for a whole 0:21:05.150,0:21:09.940 week only on Bitcoin in San Francisco 0:21:12.220,0:21:18.530 Ellie actually yeah I think I've seen 0:21:16.280,0:21:20.870 the Burlington version and I think there 0:21:18.530,0:21:25.250 was a German guy I don't I think it was 0:21:20.870,0:21:26.450 him from CDF well I say the F oh I saw 0:21:25.250,0:21:31.250 the other one else's so it's quite 0:21:26.450,0:21:34.310 interesting but the conclusion from 2018 0:21:31.250,0:21:35.990 with this article about a guy trying to 0:21:34.310,0:21:39.500 survive with Bitcoin in Silicon Valley 0:21:35.990,0:21:42.260 was that the adoption for Bitcoin has 0:21:39.500,0:21:45.260 actually decreased in terms of merchants 0:21:42.260,0:21:47.540 acceptance and it was more likely for 0:21:45.260,0:21:50.630 people to accept eater or some kind of 0:21:47.540,0:21:53.480 shit coin which the shops were believing 0:21:50.630,0:21:56.810 and and Bitcoin just because at the time 0:21:53.480,0:22:00.050 there was this whole scaling debate or 0:21:56.810,0:22:03.140 post debate after the scaling debate and 0:22:00.050,0:22:05.810 there was this idea that Bitcoin should 0:22:03.140,0:22:08.000 not be used as money and there's more of 0:22:05.810,0:22:11.330 a store value and it doesn't scale and 0:22:08.000,0:22:13.010 it has high fees and whatever yeah 0:22:11.330,0:22:16.280 that's interesting you know the whole 0:22:13.010,0:22:18.830 thing the the drama with fuse like how 0:22:16.280,0:22:21.530 you kind of started and how steel Roger 0:22:18.830,0:22:23.540 where the scammer is still talking 0:22:21.530,0:22:24.890 always about you know high fees vidcom 0:22:23.540,0:22:28.640 but I don't see that high fees in 0:22:24.890,0:22:30.530 Bitcoin I can always send you know just 0:22:28.640,0:22:32.180 like to set Servite or one set of a 0:22:30.530,0:22:35.600 transactions and they confirm in a 0:22:32.180,0:22:37.760 couple days I don't have to hurry but I 0:22:35.600,0:22:40.010 don't understand their problem still 0:22:37.760,0:22:42.620 because for example if I accept bitcoins 0:22:40.010,0:22:43.630 result in a store and I use a service 0:22:42.620,0:22:45.039 provider 0:22:43.630,0:22:47.890 usually those service providers will 0:22:45.039,0:22:50.559 demand a mining fee higher than you know 0:22:47.890,0:22:52.179 you cannot basically set it manually and 0:22:50.559,0:22:54.460 then you know that it kind of raises the 0:22:52.179,0:22:56.919 total amount you're paying and this 0:22:54.460,0:22:59.200 kinda makes it much harder for for 0:22:56.919,0:23:00.640 somebody who it's going to you know to 0:22:59.200,0:23:01.990 buy it because then you're gonna start 0:23:00.640,0:23:03.520 thinking about it do I really need this 0:23:01.990,0:23:06.429 product because it costs way too much 0:23:03.520,0:23:09.070 babies extra fee and doing things and 0:23:06.429,0:23:10.750 that you know the costs costs are quite 0:23:09.070,0:23:14.110 shady for me also because I don't really 0:23:10.750,0:23:17.559 see behind the pacer process how they 0:23:14.110,0:23:19.840 are you know changing the basis of the 0:23:17.559,0:23:21.760 received amount into the fiat currency 0:23:19.840,0:23:24.960 it's something what I want to also look 0:23:21.760,0:23:27.070 into but it's just interesting and 0:23:24.960,0:23:28.600 basically why they start transitioning 0:23:27.070,0:23:30.820 to other currencies because they have 0:23:28.600,0:23:33.010 better fee structure probably or because 0:23:30.820,0:23:35.679 they confirm much more sooner but it 0:23:33.010,0:23:39.010 just adjusted substituting a really bad 0:23:35.679,0:23:40.960 coin for good I mean a really good coin 0:23:39.010,0:23:42.940 with a really bad coin what I would say 0:23:40.960,0:23:46.360 and it just doesn't really work like 0:23:42.940,0:23:48.159 that I think in the meantime there has 0:23:46.360,0:23:51.760 been some kind of institutional 0:23:48.159,0:23:54.340 awakening and people have figured out 0:23:51.760,0:23:57.490 what it is that makes Bitcoin special 0:23:54.340,0:24:00.450 except for what they used to code as the 0:23:57.490,0:24:00.450 first mover's advantage 0:24:01.230,0:24:08.289 hmm that's interesting not really sure 0:24:05.500,0:24:10.600 about that but I do think that there is 0:24:08.289,0:24:13.330 probably like institutional that 0:24:10.600,0:24:14.919 conspiracy here that I'm thinking you 0:24:13.330,0:24:19.210 know like we're trying to you know 0:24:14.919,0:24:21.280 enforce changes on Bitcoin like for 0:24:19.210,0:24:22.390 example you know with the fees I'm not 0:24:21.280,0:24:24.820 sure if you ever thought about this 0:24:22.390,0:24:26.950 before like when people are sending 0:24:24.820,0:24:28.870 transactions they're they're forced you 0:24:26.950,0:24:31.690 know pay higher fees because because the 0:24:28.870,0:24:34.090 application cannot suggest them to do 0:24:31.690,0:24:35.740 that transaction with that amount of 0:24:34.090,0:24:40.809 fees and then they end up being it 0:24:35.740,0:24:43.330 anyway so but the thing with with 0:24:40.809,0:24:45.700 industry I mean institutional adoption I 0:24:43.330,0:24:48.880 don't really see that much I see that 0:24:45.700,0:24:50.919 that the eBay is is so exacting Bitcoin 0:24:48.880,0:24:53.110 and other currencies I see that the 0:24:50.919,0:24:54.669 Microsoft we can pay for for services 0:24:53.110,0:24:56.650 they're on their side for sure or 0:24:54.669,0:25:02.540 something 0:24:56.650,0:25:05.030 not not that much else basically well in 0:25:02.540,0:25:07.070 the United States there's a lot of buzz 0:25:05.030,0:25:11.440 about it I'm not sure what it's like in 0:25:07.070,0:25:17.380 Hungary right now if there is anything 0:25:11.440,0:25:21.230 there's nothing other than 200 220 volt 0:25:17.380,0:25:23.380 Hungary like I only consider them well 0:25:21.230,0:25:26.090 the major exchange I mean the major 0:25:23.380,0:25:29.090 electronics retail that accepts Bitcoin 0:25:26.090,0:25:31.760 other than that nothing really basically 0:25:29.090,0:25:36.170 do you have any kind of law in place 0:25:31.760,0:25:40.120 which makes a taxes or no that's really 0:25:36.170,0:25:44.210 interesting perfect looking into 0:25:40.120,0:25:47.450 basically we don't have any and this is 0:25:44.210,0:25:50.270 interesting why I have a theory that 0:25:47.450,0:25:52.550 it's possible that the members of the 0:25:50.270,0:25:54.440 Hungarian government are already deep in 0:25:52.550,0:25:57.470 crypto currencies were they trying to 0:25:54.440,0:25:59.420 you know embezzle funds into and kind of 0:25:57.470,0:26:02.900 like you know use it as a safe haven and 0:25:59.420,0:26:05.480 I got a text even for them and for that 0:26:02.900,0:26:07.580 reason they're basically what they're 0:26:05.480,0:26:10.370 doing is they're not introducing in any 0:26:07.580,0:26:12.800 any kind of tax rules for that any kind 0:26:10.370,0:26:14.690 of regulation for the space because it 0:26:12.800,0:26:18.320 would kind of impede on their ability to 0:26:14.690,0:26:20.690 you know to to do siphon out Hungarian 0:26:18.320,0:26:23.360 forint into other currencies for example 0:26:20.690,0:26:24.680 and this we've got problematic for them 0:26:23.360,0:26:27.080 because then they would have to report 0:26:24.680,0:26:29.150 these to the to the national tax office 0:26:27.080,0:26:31.040 and then you know people would be able 0:26:29.150,0:26:32.870 to see their their their amount of 0:26:31.040,0:26:35.240 cryptocurrencies that they own on their 0:26:32.870,0:26:36.740 of the checks records and I think this 0:26:35.240,0:26:38.690 wouldn't really work for them basically 0:26:36.740,0:26:40.790 so that's one thing that they're they're 0:26:38.690,0:26:42.050 you're also doing this and the other 0:26:40.790,0:26:43.910 thing is that they don't we wanna you 0:26:42.050,0:26:46.340 know tell people that they should be 0:26:43.910,0:26:47.810 using these ever of course people 0:26:46.340,0:26:49.730 talking on national television about 0:26:47.810,0:26:51.800 Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies but 0:26:49.730,0:26:53.270 but these are usually not in primetime 0:26:51.800,0:26:55.520 when you know most people would just 0:26:53.270,0:26:57.700 watch it once all staying in periods and 0:26:55.520,0:27:00.980 retirees are usually watching these 0:26:57.700,0:27:03.050 difference in television basically so 0:27:00.980,0:27:04.870 it's not really making much too much 0:27:03.050,0:27:09.230 buzz about it 0:27:04.870,0:27:11.090 basically I think I thought about what 0:27:09.230,0:27:14.360 you said a few times in terms of 0:27:11.090,0:27:18.170 politicians being involved into Bitcoin 0:27:14.360,0:27:20.060 and I remember back in January 2018 when 0:27:18.170,0:27:22.280 the governor of the Romanian Central 0:27:20.060,0:27:25.880 Bank made a statement about the price of 0:27:22.280,0:27:28.460 Bitcoin and the wording that he chose at 0:27:25.880,0:27:34.130 the time was that Bitcoin has returned 0:27:28.460,0:27:35.720 to more rational value this guy must 0:27:34.130,0:27:38.810 have been watching the price for quite 0:27:35.720,0:27:41.630 some time and he didn't call it a Ponzi 0:27:38.810,0:27:44.180 he didn't try to deter people from 0:27:41.630,0:27:46.250 investing he just said just be careful 0:27:44.180,0:27:48.170 and pay attention and only invest as 0:27:46.250,0:27:52.700 much as you can lose which is something 0:27:48.170,0:27:55.600 any youtuber can say yeah and to me it 0:27:52.700,0:27:58.940 was surprising that I was expecting this 0:27:55.600,0:28:01.070 leader of the institution which 0:27:58.940,0:28:03.380 basically issues the national currency 0:28:01.070,0:28:05.330 of Romania to say stay away from this 0:28:03.380,0:28:08.240 it's a it's bad it's a ponzi it's 0:28:05.330,0:28:11.600 whatever whatever people say to preserve 0:28:08.240,0:28:15.410 the system but he was pretty balanced 0:28:11.600,0:28:17.960 and to me it was a big surprise it made 0:28:15.410,0:28:21.670 me think okay this guy must know much 0:28:17.960,0:28:24.620 more and must be involved in it somehow 0:28:21.670,0:28:26.960 yeah just something I forgot to tell you 0:28:24.620,0:28:29.830 like here in Hungary we actually have us 0:28:26.960,0:28:32.540 thirty five point four percent tax rate 0:28:29.830,0:28:35.210 wait or thirty four point five percent 0:28:32.540,0:28:36.950 tax rate in photos or for crypto 0:28:35.210,0:28:38.900 currencies so if you make any kind of 0:28:36.950,0:28:40.760 transaction basically you need to pay 0:28:38.900,0:28:42.920 that amount of tax on it so I would I 0:28:40.760,0:28:44.420 consider a really big deterrent but this 0:28:42.920,0:28:46.310 is also interesting about central 0:28:44.420,0:28:49.220 glassware that like the Israeli finance 0:28:46.310,0:28:52.480 finance minister also we're saying that 0:28:49.220,0:28:55.400 that bitcoins body scanner to scan and 0:28:52.480,0:28:57.560 all other country's financial ministers 0:28:55.400,0:28:59.240 I mean they might say something 0:28:57.560,0:29:01.280 different probably because they were 0:28:59.240,0:29:03.260 involved in it I kind of think they are 0:29:01.280,0:29:05.000 and they are like you know trying to 0:29:03.260,0:29:07.940 figure it out how to you know keep 0:29:05.000,0:29:09.740 things working because I have a fear 0:29:07.940,0:29:11.690 about it that in a couple years from the 0:29:09.740,0:29:13.940 government's gonna start realizing that 0:29:11.690,0:29:16.830 they can either 0:29:13.940,0:29:18.390 kind of approved how they are I can 0:29:16.830,0:29:21.540 approve their operation like you know 0:29:18.390,0:29:25.260 like like either by taxation or by 0:29:21.540,0:29:27.809 reducing the total amount of taxes they 0:29:25.260,0:29:30.690 need to you know set out on to citizens 0:29:27.809,0:29:32.550 or let's say like or they gonna start 0:29:30.690,0:29:33.960 being afraid of the new system that 0:29:32.550,0:29:37.260 they're gonna see that their power is 0:29:33.960,0:29:38.850 slowly starting to evaporate and then 0:29:37.260,0:29:42.600 that's when they you're gonna start you 0:29:38.850,0:29:44.370 know we be afraid like you know the I 0:29:42.600,0:29:46.440 can India for example like with the 0:29:44.370,0:29:48.420 thing they giving out 10-year prison 0:29:46.440,0:29:50.700 sentences now or are they just planning 0:29:48.420,0:29:54.750 to do it for cryptocurrency ownership 0:29:50.700,0:29:57.420 just quite crazy you know you just made 0:29:54.750,0:30:00.900 me think of something so if you pay 30 0:29:57.420,0:30:03.800 something percent for Bitcoin purchases 0:30:00.900,0:30:06.179 that you make at that electronic store 0:30:03.800,0:30:09.270 how do they know that it was you who 0:30:06.179,0:30:11.280 paid for it so let's say that I have my 0:30:09.270,0:30:13.740 bitcoins and I want to buy you a 0:30:11.280,0:30:16.050 television and I send it to your house 0:30:13.740,0:30:18.600 and you're going to end up paying extra 0:30:16.050,0:30:21.630 tax for it right you're right 0:30:18.600,0:30:24.660 so how it works here is that I went to 0:30:21.630,0:30:27.900 the tax office desk and they said that 0:30:24.660,0:30:31.860 as long as no Hungarian forint enters 0:30:27.900,0:30:34.140 hungary or hungarian bank or a bank 0:30:31.860,0:30:36.030 account that is tied to hanging person's 0:30:34.140,0:30:38.670 name that reports the hungarian tax 0:30:36.030,0:30:41.100 office the the national text of this 0:30:38.670,0:30:43.290 won't be able to tech to enforce tax on 0:30:41.100,0:30:45.210 that person because for example when you 0:30:43.290,0:30:49.410 pay with cryptocurrencies for example at 0:30:45.210,0:30:55.290 a company you're basically not creating 0:30:49.410,0:30:56.940 a you know like a form of tax like some 0:30:55.290,0:30:59.429 some evidence for the tax office that 0:30:56.940,0:31:02.070 you basically paid but somehow the the 0:30:59.429,0:31:04.200 company just makes money and companies 0:31:02.070,0:31:07.470 don't need to you know report the name 0:31:04.200,0:31:08.670 of buyers that's that's one thing that 0:31:07.470,0:31:11.000 that you know doesn't really happen 0:31:08.670,0:31:13.590 you're like when you're going to a store 0:31:11.000,0:31:15.750 when you buy something at the counter 0:31:13.590,0:31:17.580 you know they use a system that's 0:31:15.750,0:31:19.140 already wired International Tax Office 0:31:17.580,0:31:21.390 the tax office gets the tax already 0:31:19.140,0:31:22.890 added to its record and then you know 0:31:21.390,0:31:24.720 that doesn't have a name at it I don't 0:31:22.890,0:31:26.200 really know who is doing it they only 0:31:24.720,0:31:28.420 see or you know 0:31:26.200,0:31:31.780 keeping things for you like for for like 0:31:28.420,0:31:34.810 you know warranties or or let's say for 0:31:31.780,0:31:36.670 shipping purposes so but I don't really 0:31:34.810,0:31:38.350 know if they actually transfer that 0:31:36.670,0:31:41.080 information what I highly doubt they do 0:31:38.350,0:31:43.420 because that would really you know buck 0:31:41.080,0:31:45.370 down the entire taxation system in 0:31:43.420,0:31:50.020 Hungary that's what I'm kind of 0:31:45.370,0:31:54.430 expecting here so what is the reason 0:31:50.020,0:31:56.140 behind your belief and bitcoin you think 0:31:54.430,0:32:00.100 that it solves any problems in your life 0:31:56.140,0:32:01.990 or do you identify it as a solution for 0:32:00.100,0:32:05.710 the long term or any of the problems 0:32:01.990,0:32:07.990 doing your country well basically it 0:32:05.710,0:32:12.070 solves everything and every problem that 0:32:07.990,0:32:14.770 I have that sounds like a cult and it 0:32:12.070,0:32:17.320 does sound like it but you know you can 0:32:14.770,0:32:18.280 I have to be in a given situation to 0:32:17.320,0:32:22.590 understand it 0:32:18.280,0:32:26.470 phrasing fiber lecture for example whose 0:32:22.590,0:32:29.170 husband is is member of the government 0:32:26.470,0:32:31.630 and recently they had a had an 0:32:29.170,0:32:33.160 increasing wages so they laid in 0:32:31.630,0:32:35.440 basically gave them a hundred percent 0:32:33.160,0:32:38.920 increase and they're making quite all 0:32:35.440,0:32:41.260 the money and and she told me that she 0:32:38.920,0:32:43.180 doesn't see any reason for using Bitcoin 0:32:41.260,0:32:45.100 and that's when I kind of started 0:32:43.180,0:32:47.650 thinking that that the hurt bubble 0:32:45.100,0:32:50.020 didn't burst yet because you know if I 0:32:47.650,0:32:52.360 would have heard vocalize my before that 0:32:50.020,0:32:53.920 bursts of the long ago that I would 0:32:52.360,0:32:56.140 still be comfortable using fiat 0:32:53.920,0:32:58.420 currencies and it's just a matter of 0:32:56.140,0:33:01.290 time for her to feel bad or to get into 0:32:58.420,0:33:04.930 the situation that you know kind of 0:33:01.290,0:33:08.020 makes her one to you know let's say buy 0:33:04.930,0:33:11.350 bitcoin and this is interesting because 0:33:08.020,0:33:13.720 you know for example John puto chica had 0:33:11.350,0:33:17.110 to be also in a given situation in the 0:33:13.720,0:33:19.060 Czech Republic doing the communism to 0:33:17.110,0:33:21.130 create the type of fields of thought 0:33:19.060,0:33:23.140 that he was doing because you know if he 0:33:21.130,0:33:25.120 wouldn't be in that given situation that 0:33:23.140,0:33:28.510 he was in he wouldn't have had the 0:33:25.120,0:33:31.900 fertile ground for you know growing 0:33:28.510,0:33:34.380 these ideas and then you know creating 0:33:31.900,0:33:36.610 best philosophical thought of its time 0:33:34.380,0:33:40.150 of course there's other philosophers 0:33:36.610,0:33:42.309 also like that really really glorious 0:33:40.150,0:33:43.779 but but he was really interesting 0:33:42.309,0:33:45.970 because he he was talking about 0:33:43.779,0:33:49.000 something also like like you know like 0:33:45.970,0:33:51.880 how new technology is able to enforce 0:33:49.000,0:33:54.279 new political ideology and this panel 0:33:51.880,0:33:56.679 you know grabbed me which was been 0:33:54.279,0:33:58.870 interesting because if you take a look 0:33:56.679,0:34:00.640 at for example the Bitcoin you can see 0:33:58.870,0:34:04.950 that this this whole thing basically 0:34:00.640,0:34:08.530 fits into the perspective of of 0:34:04.950,0:34:10.119 libertarianism so right so that was made 0:34:08.530,0:34:12.580 for the primary user group who started 0:34:10.119,0:34:15.790 using it and I started growing and so 0:34:12.580,0:34:18.330 much more broader other groups basically 0:34:15.790,0:34:20.560 like leftist rightist whatever else and 0:34:18.330,0:34:22.810 this was a problem that they had in 0:34:20.560,0:34:25.359 upended that the despotism didn't had to 0:34:22.810,0:34:27.580 felt our ground to grow their political 0:34:25.359,0:34:29.320 ideology but you know with the amount of 0:34:27.580,0:34:31.300 the internet it's going basically now 0:34:29.320,0:34:34.510 they have like they are able to you know 0:34:31.300,0:34:37.240 fulfill their their their folio ideology 0:34:34.510,0:34:39.040 is able to have complete financial 0:34:37.240,0:34:40.929 freedom for individuals through the use 0:34:39.040,0:34:44.710 of Bitcoin and this is really really 0:34:40.929,0:34:47.200 revolutionary and even here in Hungary I 0:34:44.710,0:34:48.490 mean how terrible the situation is again 0:34:47.200,0:34:50.290 I gave me time to you know think about 0:34:48.490,0:34:51.909 the whole situation and like you know 0:34:50.290,0:34:53.560 look for alternatives and then you know 0:34:51.909,0:34:55.089 kind of Bitcoin popped up for me and 0:34:53.560,0:34:58.480 something out of this whole mess here 0:34:55.089,0:35:00.339 and it's just kind of I just it was like 0:34:58.480,0:35:02.520 a really bad drug that I got on at once 0:35:00.339,0:35:04.930 and I and I can't get off of it anymore 0:35:02.520,0:35:07.630 it's something that you know kind of 0:35:04.930,0:35:09.880 makes me think every day it's just just 0:35:07.630,0:35:12.250 something that you're not able to stop 0:35:09.880,0:35:14.140 thinking about that it changes 0:35:12.250,0:35:16.480 everything that you see around you and 0:35:14.140,0:35:18.250 so dramatically that other people around 0:35:16.480,0:35:20.170 you don't even see it but you know about 0:35:18.250,0:35:21.609 it and you know what I did that that you 0:35:20.170,0:35:23.050 are probably at a much more advantage 0:35:21.609,0:35:25.060 position than other people and you want 0:35:23.050,0:35:26.410 to just kind of tell them about it to 0:35:25.060,0:35:28.599 let them know it too because you want to 0:35:26.410,0:35:31.390 share the prosperity probably or some 0:35:28.599,0:35:33.849 other reasons but this is really 0:35:31.390,0:35:36.160 interesting for me that it just changes 0:35:33.849,0:35:38.170 everything and permanently 0:35:36.160,0:35:40.630 our Sharif it is gonna be good the 0:35:38.170,0:35:42.490 transition that we're gonna have but but 0:35:40.630,0:35:43.810 the end goal that we have and the new 0:35:42.490,0:35:45.050 system that we're going to have is just 0:35:43.810,0:35:48.860 much better than the one 0:35:45.050,0:35:51.760 right now well that's also something 0:35:48.860,0:35:54.920 which I taught about a lot of times I 0:35:51.760,0:35:58.340 agree that bitcoin is great but how does 0:35:54.920,0:36:02.030 it work at a greater scale in terms not 0:35:58.340,0:36:05.620 of transaction output but adoption to 0:36:02.030,0:36:09.170 the extent that nation-states use it so 0:36:05.620,0:36:13.100 we'd be having a better financial system 0:36:09.170,0:36:16.250 if we only had bitcoins and would we as 0:36:13.100,0:36:18.500 a society agree that it's better to move 0:36:16.250,0:36:22.730 money around and give money to charities 0:36:18.500,0:36:24.590 and avoid individual greed in the sense 0:36:22.730,0:36:26.720 that you're going to have hoarders who 0:36:24.590,0:36:28.120 never remove their coins and then you're 0:36:26.720,0:36:31.900 going to have the rest of society 0:36:28.120,0:36:34.790 transacting with only a few Satoshi's 0:36:31.900,0:36:37.640 yeah I understand the problem here would 0:36:34.790,0:36:40.400 create I mean it is inherent greed that 0:36:37.640,0:36:42.830 drives adoption primarily people have an 0:36:40.400,0:36:44.660 inherent we all have an inherent greed 0:36:42.830,0:36:47.300 I also had an inherent grieve and I got 0:36:44.660,0:36:48.920 in for that shit coin and and then it 0:36:47.300,0:36:50.540 kind of got transformed as more as I 0:36:48.920,0:36:52.370 started learning about it but I realized 0:36:50.540,0:36:54.230 that the thing that I got into is much 0:36:52.370,0:36:55.730 more deeper than I thought and the 0:36:54.230,0:37:00.260 rabbit hole just keeps going down in 0:36:55.730,0:37:03.110 sideways so it's just crazy and and this 0:37:00.260,0:37:06.860 is what the cypher diamonds talked about 0:37:03.110,0:37:09.920 in his book that to basically sound 0:37:06.860,0:37:12.950 money or I think it was incest or or or 0:37:09.920,0:37:16.100 or hi I'm not really sure who was there 0:37:12.950,0:37:20.450 but one of them said that that you know 0:37:16.100,0:37:24.590 if you have sound money and an any 0:37:20.450,0:37:28.700 amount of that thing basically able to 0:37:24.590,0:37:31.190 upkeep an economy what they basically 0:37:28.700,0:37:33.350 meant here is that if we have 21 million 0:37:31.190,0:37:36.320 bitcoins or even if you lose four 0:37:33.350,0:37:38.180 million more than 5 million 16 bitcoins 0:37:36.320,0:37:41.080 we still have enough amount of Bitcoin 0:37:38.180,0:37:44.180 in order to run the entire planets 0:37:41.080,0:37:45.860 economy that's because you know it's 0:37:44.180,0:37:49.250 kind of made me thinking because you 0:37:45.860,0:37:52.970 know there's like I mean one Bitcoin can 0:37:49.250,0:37:56.960 be broken down into into 100 100 100 0:37:52.970,0:38:02.170 billion that's a hundred million 0:37:56.960,0:38:04.160 Jimmy I'm sorry and and and basically 0:38:02.170,0:38:05.150 that's the whole point of it that you 0:38:04.160,0:38:08.510 know you can break you down to the 0:38:05.150,0:38:09.980 smallest section and basically the new 0:38:08.510,0:38:11.750 layer technologies that are coming in 0:38:09.980,0:38:13.160 right now can basically improve on it 0:38:11.750,0:38:15.950 like you know like with the Lightning 0:38:13.160,0:38:19.250 Network because even now we are 0:38:15.950,0:38:22.099 basically sending money almost three or 0:38:19.250,0:38:24.020 a fraction of a statice so it basically 0:38:22.099,0:38:26.270 means that but if we you know start 0:38:24.020,0:38:28.730 having really big issues with the with 0:38:26.270,0:38:30.260 the value new systems yeah I'm not 0:38:28.730,0:38:32.089 saying that that you know I can 0:38:30.260,0:38:34.309 eliminate the chance for any new system 0:38:32.089,0:38:36.589 to come in because you know we can 0:38:34.309,0:38:38.119 always have total consensus on something 0:38:36.589,0:38:40.760 more important it's something actually 0:38:38.119,0:38:42.650 perks that people agree on and then and 0:38:40.760,0:38:44.780 then the algorithm in majority would 0:38:42.650,0:38:47.210 agree on it and I say that could get 0:38:44.780,0:38:48.950 accepted and those changes I'm a Bitcoin 0:38:47.210,0:38:52.099 because it's an open open source 0:38:48.950,0:38:54.440 software but even though if it cannot be 0:38:52.099,0:38:56.300 changing and it is really rigid in order 0:38:54.440,0:38:58.970 to you know keep its its functionalities 0:38:56.300,0:39:00.829 as it is right now new technologists you 0:38:58.970,0:39:02.510 know could get billed onto that our 0:39:00.829,0:39:05.089 permission that's like like a network 0:39:02.510,0:39:07.220 could try developing into that you know 0:39:05.089,0:39:09.410 we'd kind of you know allow people to 0:39:07.220,0:39:12.109 break down the value also even even 0:39:09.410,0:39:14.260 lower so then the basic allows people to 0:39:12.109,0:39:16.490 you know have the smallest amount 0:39:14.260,0:39:18.079 available if you are just buying 0:39:16.490,0:39:20.299 sometimes like a like a bread or 0:39:18.079,0:39:23.180 something far away lands or something 0:39:20.299,0:39:24.349 which is quite interesting so this kind 0:39:23.180,0:39:26.089 of allows people to you know just use 0:39:24.349,0:39:28.910 one monetary system this is why you know 0:39:26.089,0:39:32.530 it kind of becomes pointless to buy each 0:39:28.910,0:39:35.630 day or any other shit coin basically 0:39:32.530,0:39:39.410 usually I think my defense of shit coins 0:39:35.630,0:39:41.630 is that they attract newbies and in the 0:39:39.410,0:39:43.849 instance is when they don't give Bitcoin 0:39:41.630,0:39:46.460 a bad name and make the wrong impression 0:39:43.849,0:39:50.240 of what it is they actually educate in 0:39:46.460,0:39:53.180 terms of how to use the wallet and how 0:39:50.240,0:39:55.430 to make one transaction and what happens 0:39:53.180,0:39:58.280 if you lose your keys and this happens 0:39:55.430,0:40:00.920 without affecting what's going on with 0:39:58.280,0:40:03.710 Bitcoin and by the time they wake up and 0:40:00.920,0:40:05.690 realize hey there's a major player in 0:40:03.710,0:40:07.730 this feel and there's old Bitcoin not 0:40:05.690,0:40:09.560 this other shit coin that I was into 0:40:07.730,0:40:12.740 there are more 0:40:09.560,0:40:17.620 to not lose their keys and to secure 0:40:12.740,0:40:20.210 their keys and also to use wallets and 0:40:17.620,0:40:22.540 possibly they also know how to read a 0:40:20.210,0:40:22.540 note 0:40:23.020,0:40:26.870 yeah people learn about this thing 0:40:25.430,0:40:30.010 that's definitely true 0:40:26.870,0:40:32.660 I did learn a lot also true this way and 0:40:30.010,0:40:36.080 anything it can be a good gateway drug 0:40:32.660,0:40:37.730 of course I will agree with that but in 0:40:36.080,0:40:40.520 the end it kind of depends on the person 0:40:37.730,0:40:42.680 if he goes beyond his own selfish greed 0:40:40.520,0:40:44.240 to learn more about it and that's kind 0:40:42.680,0:40:46.910 of what kind of makes or breaks the 0:40:44.240,0:40:48.230 whole thing for him it kind of makes it 0:40:46.910,0:40:50.750 more like you know if he's gonna lose 0:40:48.230,0:40:52.160 millions on this at some point in his 0:40:50.750,0:40:53.780 life or if it's gonna be you know 0:40:52.160,0:40:57.530 survive the next hyperinflationary 0:40:53.780,0:41:01.130 crisis that we're gonna face and this is 0:40:57.530,0:41:05.150 interesting but I don't really think but 0:41:01.130,0:41:07.190 maybe maybe I do but it's it's a like 0:41:05.150,0:41:09.530 you know it's hard for the average Joe 0:41:07.190,0:41:11.840 to you know to get right away into the 0:41:09.530,0:41:13.640 deep water and I just jumped in if you 0:41:11.840,0:41:15.530 know if you stop if you buy Bitcoin you 0:41:13.640,0:41:17.750 never heard about it you just keep it in 0:41:15.530,0:41:19.940 an exchange and even a couple of weeks 0:41:17.750,0:41:23.060 ago I had a friend who being into crypto 0:41:19.940,0:41:26.360 is in the 2017 will run he just now 0:41:23.060,0:41:31.850 bought himself a hardware wallet to 0:41:26.360,0:41:33.320 escape those security never really 0:41:31.850,0:41:35.630 thought about these things to buy a 0:41:33.320,0:41:38.090 hardware wallet or something and he said 0:41:35.630,0:41:41.030 he's only started you know looking into 0:41:38.090,0:41:45.530 it and he needed to get to pushed you 0:41:41.030,0:41:48.140 know to get into this thing I know but 0:41:45.530,0:41:50.870 you have to realize that we are having a 0:41:48.140,0:41:53.090 very elitist perspective on it and most 0:41:50.870,0:41:56.390 people don't really have the time to do 0:41:53.090,0:41:58.370 as much research as we did so in in a 0:41:56.390,0:42:01.160 sense this is a luxury that we get to 0:41:58.370,0:42:03.500 learn about how Bitcoin functions on so 0:42:01.160,0:42:06.530 many dimensions most people will just 0:42:03.500,0:42:09.320 buy $100 worth of Bitcoin leave it on 0:42:06.530,0:42:12.470 coin base and forget about it maybe sell 0:42:09.320,0:42:19.130 it when it goes up in price and that's 0:42:12.470,0:42:20.900 about it yeah yeah and to say people are 0:42:19.130,0:42:22.840 just gonna live their lives and be 0:42:20.900,0:42:25.720 ignorant of what goes on 0:42:22.840,0:42:28.360 around them and finance and politics and 0:42:25.720,0:42:32.020 everything else but we have to make sure 0:42:28.360,0:42:34.660 as long as we are more educated that we 0:42:32.020,0:42:36.700 preserve this system and keep it fair as 0:42:34.660,0:42:41.760 opposed to trying to change the 0:42:36.700,0:42:46.390 consensus rules and stru everybody else 0:42:41.760,0:42:48.250 yeah so it's yeah people definitely have 0:42:46.390,0:42:51.790 barriers for entry like how they keep 0:42:48.250,0:42:52.780 you know the secret key safe and then 0:42:51.790,0:42:54.820 you know when they start you know 0:42:52.780,0:42:56.620 realizing there's a lot more things they 0:42:54.820,0:42:58.960 can do to keep it secure like like pass 0:42:56.620,0:43:01.630 phrases or move to signature wallets 0:42:58.960,0:43:03.130 they just get really entangled with all 0:43:01.630,0:43:04.870 the information it's just overwhelming 0:43:03.130,0:43:08.440 for them even for me in the beginning it 0:43:04.870,0:43:11.350 was really overwhelming but it is true 0:43:08.440,0:43:13.060 we are also you know have the luxury if 0:43:11.350,0:43:16.600 you know to think about this we're like 0:43:13.060,0:43:19.320 time billionaires here or we're able to 0:43:16.600,0:43:22.750 you know set aside some capacity of our 0:43:19.320,0:43:25.090 brain and time to you know think about 0:43:22.750,0:43:27.790 this thing constantly and it's kind of 0:43:25.090,0:43:29.620 gives us the advantage also so like but 0:43:27.790,0:43:30.910 you know this is why you know freedom 0:43:29.620,0:43:34.540 for somebody who's financially 0:43:30.910,0:43:38.590 struggling with of America or hungry or 0:43:34.540,0:43:40.060 whatever else they gonna have a really 0:43:38.590,0:43:41.350 hard time you know thinking about these 0:43:40.060,0:43:42.580 things because you have to worry about 0:43:41.350,0:43:44.440 everything like how they gonna earn 0:43:42.580,0:43:47.140 money how they gonna feed their children 0:43:44.440,0:43:49.600 or family or whatever else it's just you 0:43:47.140,0:43:51.970 know once you get out of the environment 0:43:49.600,0:43:53.590 you know the study or whatever if you're 0:43:51.970,0:43:56.290 not in such a situation that you're able 0:43:53.590,0:43:57.850 to think like if you're at home all the 0:43:56.290,0:44:00.190 time being depressed and you're unable 0:43:57.850,0:44:02.230 to go anywhere then baby that that can 0:44:00.190,0:44:05.290 be kind of a good time to start thinking 0:44:02.230,0:44:07.960 about these things and and usually can 0:44:05.290,0:44:10.780 alistair good good good result also what 0:44:07.960,0:44:17.110 I can see there but it's just 0:44:10.780,0:44:19.300 interesting like it's hard to know hard 0:44:17.110,0:44:21.130 to save if somebody would have the time 0:44:19.300,0:44:22.600 we need to think about this if they're 0:44:21.130,0:44:25.270 living you if they don't have anything 0:44:22.600,0:44:27.810 threatening their lives like like one of 0:44:25.270,0:44:31.150 my lecture this is how she would say it 0:44:27.810,0:44:34.210 but it's it's not possible to say if 0:44:31.150,0:44:36.559 it's true one of the discussions that I 0:44:34.210,0:44:39.259 have had on this podcast 0:44:36.559,0:44:41.689 before is that nobody really wakes up in 0:44:39.259,0:44:44.209 the morning one day and realizes that 0:44:41.689,0:44:46.489 the dollars in their pocket are not good 0:44:44.209,0:44:48.410 enough and they need sound money in 0:44:46.489,0:44:51.380 their lives oh oh this is very 0:44:48.410,0:44:53.809 interesting yes yes and actually I had 0:44:51.380,0:44:56.989 the downing of this moment without this 0:44:53.809,0:45:00.170 thing that you know how perceptive eyes 0:44:56.989,0:45:01.549 is the value of fiat currencies is I'm 0:45:00.170,0:45:03.019 not sure if you ever heard of I like 0:45:01.549,0:45:05.239 what's going on in Hungary with the 0:45:03.019,0:45:09.130 paper money basically the song game 0:45:05.239,0:45:12.229 central bank started issuing new 0:45:09.130,0:45:14.959 basically brand-new paper money so they 0:45:12.229,0:45:17.150 are look totally different and the whole 0:45:14.959,0:45:19.729 purpose of that is that that they are 0:45:17.150,0:45:23.449 still running with the old money in 0:45:19.729,0:45:25.999 place and people are trying to exit the 0:45:23.449,0:45:28.910 old money but even though the old old 0:45:25.999,0:45:31.189 type of currency is still in circulation 0:45:28.910,0:45:33.439 for indefinite time until it gets 0:45:31.189,0:45:35.359 announced and they're just trying to get 0:45:33.439,0:45:37.640 the new one because they think that it's 0:45:35.359,0:45:39.499 gonna turn useless for them and that's 0:45:37.640,0:45:41.779 funny you know when I went into the post 0:45:39.499,0:45:44.029 office and I received multiple of those 0:45:41.779,0:45:45.619 old bills and one in between them I you 0:45:44.029,0:45:47.749 know just kind of immediately got 0:45:45.619,0:45:50.449 shocked that this was actually true that 0:45:47.749,0:45:52.009 it can happen that the human perception 0:45:50.449,0:45:53.239 is enough to create a massive 0:45:52.009,0:45:56.239 hyperinflation 0:45:53.239,0:45:57.529 because there's no nothing behind the 0:45:56.239,0:45:58.869 money that's backing its value the 0:45:57.529,0:46:02.630 government just printing it out 0:45:58.869,0:46:04.339 endlessly and in the end when you know 0:46:02.630,0:46:06.170 people will start realizing that there 0:46:04.339,0:46:08.239 is nothing behind this thing absolutely 0:46:06.170,0:46:09.949 nothing to just you know they're just 0:46:08.239,0:46:11.660 gonna start demanding more and more to 0:46:09.949,0:46:13.939 buy more of bitcoin or something 0:46:11.660,0:46:16.779 different and that's gonna be the end of 0:46:13.939,0:46:19.670 it and this is scary basically because I 0:46:16.779,0:46:21.709 have a theory for that that this thing 0:46:19.670,0:46:24.439 could happen within six years now 0:46:21.709,0:46:27.019 if hyper Bitcoin ization starts 0:46:24.439,0:46:28.789 happening much more sooner than it is so 0:46:27.019,0:46:31.400 that's what I'm taking my movie could 0:46:28.789,0:46:33.769 somehow you know slow this but so this 0:46:31.400,0:46:37.099 down a tiny bit or follow the stock to 0:46:33.769,0:46:40.400 flow ratio somehow without inducing in a 0:46:37.099,0:46:42.920 - inflation effect then we would have a 0:46:40.400,0:46:46.279 much more safer transition then you know 0:46:42.920,0:46:48.619 next day having to pay like just one day 0:46:46.279,0:46:49.070 having to pay before like one euro for 0:46:48.619,0:46:51.980 bread 0:46:49.070,0:46:54.560 like a million because that would cause 0:46:51.980,0:46:56.540 a massive destruction for society on the 0:46:54.560,0:47:00.020 long run and you wouldn't get out of it 0:46:56.540,0:47:01.730 in just four or five years time only six 0:47:00.020,0:47:04.790 people have to buy life after we have to 0:47:01.730,0:47:08.780 rely on government food stamps or 0:47:04.790,0:47:13.850 whatever or food so it's quite scary in 0:47:08.780,0:47:16.210 some perspective would you say that you 0:47:13.850,0:47:19.790 have always had this predisposition to 0:47:16.210,0:47:21.680 like libertarianism and the reason you 0:47:19.790,0:47:26.270 got into Bitcoin is that you didn't like 0:47:21.680,0:47:29.330 the government's I used to be a centrist 0:47:26.270,0:47:31.460 because I twice voted for the the ruling 0:47:29.330,0:47:34.160 government but then I kind of felt like 0:47:31.460,0:47:36.620 that they betrayed my trust and then I 0:47:34.160,0:47:38.960 kinda had this descry sees that you know 0:47:36.620,0:47:42.230 I was more more left-leaning than 0:47:38.960,0:47:43.850 centrist and I you know I just didn't 0:47:42.230,0:47:45.800 feel like that these things were right 0:47:43.850,0:47:47.720 there what they were doing but at the 0:47:45.800,0:47:50.270 same time it really liked what was going 0:47:47.720,0:47:52.220 on with the migration crisis I didn't 0:47:50.270,0:47:55.090 like something that also the other side 0:47:52.220,0:47:57.830 was saying and also the parties that 0:47:55.090,0:48:00.410 basically abused their power in the past 0:47:57.830,0:48:02.510 we're still running for political 0:48:00.410,0:48:04.010 political office so they kind of 0:48:02.510,0:48:05.420 conflicted with the whole thing and I 0:48:04.010,0:48:06.980 can't end up in this whole thing that I 0:48:05.420,0:48:09.080 don't have a political party that I can 0:48:06.980,0:48:12.110 rely on I don't know how we want to 0:48:09.080,0:48:14.210 trust I mean who can I can trust and in 0:48:12.110,0:48:16.340 what ways and then I kind of realized 0:48:14.210,0:48:19.060 after you know with the whole Bitcoin 0:48:16.340,0:48:22.520 thing that this is actually love better 0:48:19.060,0:48:25.100 with attorneys and I I know I'm kind of 0:48:22.520,0:48:27.830 fully transitioning bad but it's a 0:48:25.100,0:48:29.680 really really long process there's 0:48:27.830,0:48:32.750 another guy I'm Twitter recall is 0:48:29.680,0:48:38.030 recovering status by kind of doing the 0:48:32.750,0:48:40.010 same thing right well I think I still 0:48:38.030,0:48:42.830 regard myself as a centrist when I 0:48:40.010,0:48:45.200 listen to political issues as I can 0:48:42.830,0:48:48.740 sympathize with all points of view and 0:48:45.200,0:48:51.110 understand that it's not easy to get 0:48:48.740,0:48:54.050 involved into politics and please all 0:48:51.110,0:48:56.390 all the people who essentially entrust 0:48:54.050,0:48:59.360 you with their vote but at the same time 0:48:56.390,0:49:01.950 I become much more of a naturalist in 0:48:59.360,0:49:05.579 relation to policy 0:49:01.950,0:49:08.190 and I think that sometimes it's required 0:49:05.579,0:49:10.200 in a democracy to have a shake-up of the 0:49:08.190,0:49:14.550 system just so you discover what works 0:49:10.200,0:49:16.200 and what doesn't yeah I mean there was 0:49:14.550,0:49:18.390 this guy called Zach who was also 0:49:16.200,0:49:21.480 talking about this in relation to Donald 0:49:18.390,0:49:23.790 Trump he was either I think it was 0:49:21.480,0:49:25.740 Slovenian philosopher a Marxist 0:49:23.790,0:49:27.780 philosopher it was basically saying that 0:49:25.740,0:49:29.849 the thing that's this thing with Donald 0:49:27.780,0:49:31.470 Trump is a really great thing but he 0:49:29.849,0:49:33.839 happened because he now gonna destroy 0:49:31.470,0:49:35.730 everything and then you know the new 0:49:33.839,0:49:37.680 thing that comes in his place is getting 0:49:35.730,0:49:39.869 much better does that stuff thing would 0:49:37.680,0:49:41.609 I agree with Bitcoin because it's doing 0:49:39.869,0:49:43.829 the same thing what he was referring to 0:49:41.609,0:49:45.420 it's destroying everything that we see 0:49:43.829,0:49:47.280 now but it's not really destroying 0:49:45.420,0:49:49.320 everything the system that it that is 0:49:47.280,0:49:52.109 that his predecessor is destroying 0:49:49.320,0:49:55.050 itself and that's how Bitcoin have the 0:49:52.109,0:49:58.020 space to grow and it's just really great 0:49:55.050,0:50:02.670 that it is able to do that quite so 0:49:58.020,0:50:04.829 organically yeah I think bitcoin is a 0:50:02.670,0:50:08.160 very strange phenomenon that you only 0:50:04.829,0:50:12.150 find maybe once in a generation once in 0:50:08.160,0:50:15.349 a few hundreds of years it came at the 0:50:12.150,0:50:19.160 exact right time when it was needed 0:50:15.349,0:50:21.960 basically I think even now people have 0:50:19.160,0:50:24.359 struggles in terms of understanding its 0:50:21.960,0:50:28.500 purpose and how it actually works and if 0:50:24.359,0:50:30.599 you put an economist and a computer 0:50:28.500,0:50:33.240 scientist in the same room and tell them 0:50:30.599,0:50:35.700 to interpret the purpose of Bitcoin 0:50:33.240,0:50:38.160 they're going to see something very 0:50:35.700,0:50:44.910 different which I guess is part of the 0:50:38.160,0:50:47.819 charm of the phenomenon it has all the 0:50:44.910,0:50:50.910 qualities that we need at this point in 0:50:47.819,0:50:53.010 order to basically rebel against our 0:50:50.910,0:50:55.200 governments we we tell them very 0:50:53.010,0:50:57.119 directly that we're not going to use 0:50:55.200,0:50:59.970 their money anymore we're not going to 0:50:57.119,0:51:02.150 store value with them we're not going 0:50:59.970,0:51:06.030 exact all the time with whatever 0:51:02.150,0:51:08.819 inflated currency they give us and at 0:51:06.030,0:51:11.010 some point I don't think either Bitcoin 0:51:08.819,0:51:14.540 or the fiat currencies are going to go 0:51:11.010,0:51:15.770 away but we are going to be put into a 0:51:14.540,0:51:17.240 situation 0:51:15.770,0:51:21.910 the government's come to us and 0:51:17.240,0:51:26.900 negotiate and oh yeah desperate let's 0:51:21.910,0:51:29.180 give back to us in order to win honest 0:51:26.900,0:51:32.420 citizens who contribute to the society 0:51:29.180,0:51:34.610 as they expect and in exchange for this 0:51:32.420,0:51:36.410 they're going to have much they they're 0:51:34.610,0:51:40.310 going to become much more transparent 0:51:36.410,0:51:44.270 and much more honest and I guess this 0:51:40.310,0:51:46.880 empowers us to not rely on the old 0:51:44.270,0:51:48.380 system of elites and I'm not sure to 0:51:46.880,0:51:51.230 which extent the old elites are 0:51:48.380,0:51:54.080 investing into Bitcoin that's always 0:51:51.230,0:51:54.800 something obscure and it's part of the 0:51:54.080,0:51:57.860 s3 0:51:54.800,0:52:01.460 I mean Bitcoin does punish the greedy 0:51:57.860,0:52:04.490 that that's effect so there is a value 0:52:01.460,0:52:06.560 transition from the rich to the middle 0:52:04.490,0:52:08.240 and lower classes which is a really good 0:52:06.560,0:52:10.490 thing and this is the whole thing with 0:52:08.240,0:52:11.960 volunteerism that you know that thou 0:52:10.490,0:52:14.510 government's gonna have to start 0:52:11.960,0:52:16.370 focusing more on being for-profit that 0:52:14.510,0:52:18.560 they somehow need to make money but 0:52:16.370,0:52:20.180 still allowing others to make money 0:52:18.560,0:52:22.340 because the transformational value is 0:52:20.180,0:52:24.650 already happening right now and because 0:52:22.340,0:52:27.080 now people know that how they can you 0:52:24.650,0:52:29.090 know avoid inflation they are a much 0:52:27.080,0:52:30.710 more reluctant to fund such government 0:52:29.090,0:52:33.650 projects that are not useful for them 0:52:30.710,0:52:38.110 you know humans always look for for 0:52:33.650,0:52:40.550 useful tools like the maximum utility 0:52:38.110,0:52:42.440 creatures basically who seek maximum 0:52:40.550,0:52:44.390 utility in things and then you know 0:52:42.440,0:52:46.340 governments custodian programs for 0:52:44.390,0:52:48.470 example like investment approaches for 0:52:46.340,0:52:51.050 example T people want invest through the 0:52:48.470,0:52:53.150 hospitals or other services for example 0:52:51.050,0:52:54.410 they could basically invest in sit in 0:52:53.150,0:52:56.960 and earn back the money that they 0:52:54.410,0:52:59.660 invested probably over time and then you 0:52:56.960,0:53:01.280 know this kind of you know makes the 0:52:59.660,0:53:04.070 whole system better because now we don't 0:53:01.280,0:53:07.160 have to rely on the ultra rich or 0:53:04.070,0:53:09.650 oligarchies to you know run projects or 0:53:07.160,0:53:12.380 build things and this and that and this 0:53:09.650,0:53:14.300 is really great and now you know with 0:53:12.380,0:53:15.680 the whole crypto space and with Bitcoin 0:53:14.300,0:53:18.440 people now learning about how do you 0:53:15.680,0:53:20.120 have a digital trading working and how 0:53:18.440,0:53:21.710 stocks are working how cryptocurrencies 0:53:20.120,0:53:23.630 working in things like that they're 0:53:21.710,0:53:25.400 learning more about you know how the 0:53:23.630,0:53:27.570 whole trade thing is working because up 0:53:25.400,0:53:30.210 until 2017 I never 0:53:27.570,0:53:32.160 you know anything about how effective no 0:53:30.210,0:53:32.610 works or ever size signal what the hell 0:53:32.160,0:53:35.010 that is 0:53:32.610,0:53:36.480 and and I totally learned these things 0:53:35.010,0:53:38.520 that I thought you know exploring these 0:53:36.480,0:53:41.880 things also so this is quite phenomenal 0:53:38.520,0:53:43.740 that now those people who weren't in in 0:53:41.880,0:53:46.920 this space now learning about all these 0:53:43.740,0:53:50.370 kinds of things and and if we try to you 0:53:46.920,0:53:52.590 know relate it to the future or you make 0:53:50.370,0:53:55.370 a prediction we can see that maybe we 0:53:52.590,0:53:57.930 can I have a much more greater 0:53:55.370,0:54:01.670 technological development or or economic 0:53:57.930,0:54:01.670 boom in the future because of this I 0:54:01.700,0:54:07.710 think given that you've mentioned that 0:54:04.440,0:54:10.890 you have or you used to have at least 0:54:07.710,0:54:13.290 more leftist tendencies you've reminded 0:54:10.890,0:54:15.510 me of us saying according to which the 0:54:13.290,0:54:20.640 more you'll the more economy you learn 0:54:15.510,0:54:23.000 the less of a leftist you become you 0:54:20.640,0:54:27.870 acquired the means to boat 0:54:23.000,0:54:30.540 make yourself richer and help others so 0:54:27.870,0:54:33.900 you you no longer think that the state 0:54:30.540,0:54:36.480 should intervene and over tax and punish 0:54:33.900,0:54:40.350 the rich you're basically thinking in 0:54:36.480,0:54:44.030 terms of redistributing the wealth which 0:54:40.350,0:54:46.680 means that are within your grasp 0:54:44.030,0:54:50.250 basically but there is a problem here 0:54:46.680,0:54:51.990 but you need to also consider the 0:54:50.250,0:54:54.480 problem here is that you know is it is 0:54:51.990,0:54:57.780 our inherent culture and our experiences 0:54:54.480,0:55:00.330 with our reality because for example how 0:54:57.780,0:55:03.260 company structures work in France are 0:55:00.330,0:55:06.180 really dictated by the state people more 0:55:03.260,0:55:08.400 more eager to seek your critique roles 0:55:06.180,0:55:10.800 they're like to become a governor or 0:55:08.400,0:55:13.320 something like to to become like a big 0:55:10.800,0:55:15.600 leader of company or something then they 0:55:13.320,0:55:17.610 and then you know have the social 0:55:15.600,0:55:19.980 capital to start big companies or 0:55:17.610,0:55:22.230 something it's much more over there more 0:55:19.980,0:55:24.090 in comparison to like northern Italy 0:55:22.230,0:55:25.830 where there are more companies in 0:55:24.090,0:55:29.760 comparison to southern Italy for example 0:55:25.830,0:55:31.770 bear for example religion was used as a 0:55:29.760,0:55:33.510 tool to enforce the rule of the king 0:55:31.770,0:55:35.460 so people were much more content and 0:55:33.510,0:55:37.470 they looked towards the government for 0:55:35.460,0:55:39.060 example to start companies and they're 0:55:37.470,0:55:40.470 more further than for rich people who 0:55:39.060,0:55:42.450 really think that they need to 0:55:40.470,0:55:43.890 invest into things because they consider 0:55:42.450,0:55:46.800 that that if the government stopped 0:55:43.890,0:55:47.880 invested the things not their job to 0:55:46.800,0:55:49.859 keep things going 0:55:47.880,0:55:53.369 and this is kinda it comes back down to 0:55:49.859,0:55:57.270 cultural experiences basically it's 0:55:53.369,0:56:00.090 quite interesting but Hungary has had a 0:55:57.270,0:56:03.330 very long and ugly history of what 0:56:00.090,0:56:08.150 communism yeah confiscation of wealth 0:56:03.330,0:56:10.290 and forced labor and a very strange 0:56:08.150,0:56:13.040 centralization which replaced the old 0:56:10.290,0:56:15.590 system of elites and replaced it with 0:56:13.040,0:56:18.180 maybe what what they were calling 0:56:15.590,0:56:20.640 working-class people who were uneducated 0:56:18.180,0:56:24.060 and unprepared to actually be in 0:56:20.640,0:56:29.010 government yeah this is a big problem 0:56:24.060,0:56:32.250 because it kinda you know transform 0:56:29.010,0:56:34.619 people's thinking and even today we see 0:56:32.250,0:56:38.040 the fallout of it those who are still 0:56:34.619,0:56:40.560 here are are kind of impeding on this 0:56:38.040,0:56:44.250 problem I mean in feeding on all rights 0:56:40.560,0:56:46.260 and freedoms and they just kind of 0:56:44.250,0:56:48.150 bogging down the system basically and 0:56:46.260,0:56:50.580 it's a problem because it's really hard 0:56:48.150,0:56:51.960 to change their their attitudes also 0:56:50.580,0:56:54.510 present for like in Russia for example 0:56:51.960,0:56:56.820 other people don't really like the fact 0:56:54.510,0:56:58.859 that they're younger then the younger 0:56:56.820,0:57:00.330 generation speaks so freely freely 0:56:58.859,0:57:02.940 because you know what they would have 0:57:00.330,0:57:04.410 speak that freely in Soviet times they 0:57:02.940,0:57:07.320 would have been taken away after the 0:57:04.410,0:57:10.800 gulags and their life ruin and their 0:57:07.320,0:57:12.660 families but nice much more different so 0:57:10.800,0:57:14.640 we still need some time to get through 0:57:12.660,0:57:19.650 this and see it's also change in 0:57:14.640,0:57:22.339 generation but also Bitcoin as money is 0:57:19.650,0:57:25.020 a form of speech it's an expression 0:57:22.339,0:57:27.750 because where you spend your money and 0:57:25.020,0:57:30.599 with whom you're transacting is the same 0:57:27.750,0:57:33.650 as with whom you're having conversations 0:57:30.599,0:57:37.349 and what kind of topics you prefer and 0:57:33.650,0:57:39.900 the fact that we are able to communicate 0:57:37.349,0:57:42.450 with each other financially without any 0:57:39.900,0:57:47.760 kind of central party which censors us 0:57:42.450,0:57:52.830 or central party to confiscate whichever 0:57:47.760,0:57:54.500 wealth they consider to be you know 0:57:52.830,0:57:58.330 stolen or 0:57:54.500,0:58:01.940 not being sent according to the rules 0:57:58.330,0:58:03.830 well we're not in that system anymore 0:58:01.940,0:58:06.619 and it's wonderful that we get to 0:58:03.830,0:58:10.609 understand money from this perspective 0:58:06.619,0:58:14.630 of fundamental human rights and yeah 0:58:10.609,0:58:16.550 beautiful privacy it is beautiful 0:58:14.630,0:58:18.770 the police can no longer take your money 0:58:16.550,0:58:20.810 out of your car in the US because now 0:58:18.770,0:58:22.490 the secret code is in your brain or on 0:58:20.810,0:58:25.670 your cell phone and they don't see the 0:58:22.490,0:58:29.300 physical cash trend is that of freedom 0:58:25.670,0:58:32.330 for us yes for them to know how much you 0:58:29.300,0:58:34.220 own and yeah also you can wonder 0:58:32.330,0:58:36.980 quarters you can run away from your 0:58:34.220,0:58:40.430 country with nothing but 12 words in 0:58:36.980,0:58:41.960 your mind or on a piece of paper I'm not 0:58:40.430,0:58:43.880 entirely sure but I'm convinced that 0:58:41.960,0:58:46.280 that if I think it was the Bitcoin 0:58:43.880,0:58:49.520 improvement protocol 39 that brought in 0:58:46.280,0:58:51.890 the the manic phases right that Kara 0:58:49.520,0:58:53.960 made is possible to you know to kind of 0:58:51.890,0:58:55.849 translate the private key if the more 0:58:53.960,0:58:58.280 memories I have memorized over it's like 0:58:55.849,0:59:00.200 12 or 24 and then the best part is that 0:58:58.280,0:59:02.930 you can also put a fast phrase on to 0:59:00.200,0:59:05.990 this so if you you can you know 0:59:02.930,0:59:08.270 decentralize your storage and you still 0:59:05.990,0:59:10.369 remember the fast phrase you are in full 0:59:08.270,0:59:12.290 control of your money nobody can steal 0:59:10.369,0:59:15.310 it not even the couple the government 0:59:12.290,0:59:18.050 not even lock and enforce beyond you and 0:59:15.310,0:59:20.210 this is scary and what some point but 0:59:18.050,0:59:22.849 it's really liberating because now your 0:59:20.210,0:59:26.810 your your your ex-husband cannot steal 0:59:22.849,0:59:30.170 your your kid your your fortunes or or 0:59:26.810,0:59:32.050 your rogue life is is not gonna be the 0:59:30.170,0:59:34.940 gold thing anymore 0:59:32.050,0:59:37.550 it's quite good this is this is really 0:59:34.940,0:59:38.900 liberating and I really like that but 0:59:37.550,0:59:40.760 then it's kind of brings up the whole 0:59:38.900,0:59:42.890 thing that now taxation is gonna be 0:59:40.760,0:59:44.900 impossible the things we have right now 0:59:42.890,0:59:46.760 is going to collapse it's gonna be 0:59:44.900,0:59:48.530 really hard to upkeep things like like 0:59:46.760,0:59:50.510 for infograph for states like like the 0:59:48.530,0:59:52.730 education system the health care system 0:59:50.510,0:59:57.770 whatever else like public services 0:59:52.730,0:59:59.540 hospitals not even security service is 0:59:57.770,1:00:01.280 gonna be properly operating in my 0:59:59.540,1:00:04.359 opinion unless we do something about it 1:00:01.280,1:00:06.880 so that's that's a true danger there 1:00:04.359,1:00:09.150 and also crime might start rising even 1:00:06.880,1:00:12.220 more than there is hype recognization 1:00:09.150,1:00:15.489 well the way I think about it from a 1:00:12.220,1:00:19.569 voluntary perspective is that we as 1:00:15.489,1:00:23.529 individuals who make money and the prior 1:00:19.569,1:00:25.690 value are more likely to give money to 1:00:23.529,1:00:29.019 something that which we agree so if 1:00:25.690,1:00:30.670 somebody showed up at our door and said 1:00:29.019,1:00:32.859 how about you give some money for the 1:00:30.670,1:00:35.890 local hospital or for the school in your 1:00:32.859,1:00:37.869 neighborhood you you understand why it's 1:00:35.890,1:00:40.599 important for it to continue operating 1:00:37.869,1:00:43.890 and you're going to give money but 1:00:40.599,1:00:46.509 taxation as a form of taking wealth 1:00:43.890,1:00:49.269 exists so they can put in place 1:00:46.509,1:00:52.720 practices and policies on which you 1:00:49.269,1:00:55.299 would not agree they yet onwards they 1:00:52.720,1:00:57.430 fun secret services they increase the 1:00:55.299,1:01:01.769 payments of politicians and their 1:00:57.430,1:01:04.599 drivers and these stadiums basically 1:01:01.769,1:01:06.279 exactly they build stadiums and they do 1:01:04.599,1:01:09.400 lots of stuff to it you would never 1:01:06.279,1:01:11.890 agree to do yeah also have you know what 1:01:09.400,1:01:14.680 to say except for when you go to vote 1:01:11.890,1:01:17.069 and even then it's not much of a choice 1:01:14.680,1:01:20.440 because you choose between predetermined 1:01:17.069,1:01:23.670 options and you don't get to vote for 1:01:20.440,1:01:26.440 somebody whom you consider to be honest 1:01:23.670,1:01:29.259 yeah like this is the point what I was 1:01:26.440,1:01:31.619 actually you know trying to explore it a 1:01:29.259,1:01:35.920 while back but you know like how 1:01:31.619,1:01:38.549 voluntary funding of institutions could 1:01:35.920,1:01:41.349 work I mean we already have a have a 1:01:38.549,1:01:43.029 some working technology with smart 1:01:41.349,1:01:44.890 contracts it just a better time to 1:01:43.029,1:01:47.920 create another layer on the Bitcoin 1:01:44.890,1:01:51.579 protocol and you know create some sort 1:01:47.920,1:01:53.619 of a safe smart contract system that 1:01:51.579,1:01:55.839 allows us for example to fund hospitals 1:01:53.619,1:01:57.789 for example in the country so people for 1:01:55.839,1:02:00.700 example want to fund a National Health 1:01:57.789,1:02:02.829 Service then basically they can just 1:02:00.700,1:02:05.170 contribute into that fund and then those 1:02:02.829,1:02:07.329 funds basically are possible to track 1:02:05.170,1:02:10.539 and see where it is going how to spent 1:02:07.329,1:02:12.579 but not very but just you know I'm sure 1:02:10.539,1:02:14.619 like it's how dangerous would be if it 1:02:12.579,1:02:16.569 will be possible to verify who paid in 1:02:14.619,1:02:18.010 what way because I thought like some 1:02:16.569,1:02:20.080 sort of a zero knowledge proof 1:02:18.010,1:02:21.580 it was in this system that are that are 1:02:20.080,1:02:23.410 not entirely ting back to the same 1:02:21.580,1:02:24.700 person but able to verify that he was 1:02:23.410,1:02:28.359 actually paying that amount of money 1:02:24.700,1:02:29.800 could be really useful so basically it's 1:02:28.359,1:02:31.000 really good because if you like if 1:02:29.800,1:02:33.130 you're not paying for example your 1:02:31.000,1:02:35.020 contributions if you get into hospital 1:02:33.130,1:02:37.300 you could be forced you know pay more 1:02:35.020,1:02:38.859 for yourself for the service there but 1:02:37.300,1:02:41.080 if you're paying your contributions you 1:02:38.859,1:02:44.280 you would be given a bigger discount for 1:02:41.080,1:02:47.290 example for foreplay for you know 1:02:44.280,1:02:49.690 foreign society and keeping up these 1:02:47.290,1:02:51.940 institutions through that boy that is 1:02:49.690,1:02:53.859 quite good in my opinion it could happen 1:02:51.940,1:02:57.430 will be a really good way to fix these 1:02:53.859,1:02:59.859 problems I imagine in the future that 1:02:57.430,1:03:01.900 the state will also do multi-sig 1:02:59.859,1:03:05.470 contracts on the Bitcoin blockchain 1:03:01.900,1:03:08.680 so they will be one part of the private 1:03:05.470,1:03:11.080 key and maybe somebody in your family 1:03:08.680,1:03:17.290 will hold let's say in a two out of 1:03:11.080,1:03:19.390 three structure another member of the 1:03:17.290,1:03:21.970 family will hold the other part and then 1:03:19.390,1:03:25.600 the government will want to hold a third 1:03:21.970,1:03:28.780 part and the money you mean like like 1:03:25.600,1:03:31.000 like a like a multi-sig that is visible 1:03:28.780,1:03:33.250 to the government like a ID system that 1:03:31.000,1:03:34.619 is type of wallet you mean yeah 1:03:33.250,1:03:40.380 something like that 1:03:34.619,1:03:43.840 so it's a really crazy idea that I think 1:03:40.380,1:03:45.730 the scanner goes against all all ideas 1:03:43.840,1:03:48.460 of freedom because then just to go I 1:03:45.730,1:03:51.070 need to get get one private keen and 1:03:48.460,1:03:55.590 universally enforce any of those or any 1:03:51.070,1:03:55.590 laws or regulations on you if you wish 1:03:56.940,1:04:04.630 yeah but I mean I'm not saying it's a 1:04:02.470,1:04:10.390 great idea I'm saying that at some point 1:04:04.630,1:04:13.119 I think they will try to do it allow you 1:04:10.390,1:04:17.470 to give them one shard of your private 1:04:13.119,1:04:20.320 key and then I guess there's nothing 1:04:17.470,1:04:23.050 that they can do without another party 1:04:20.320,1:04:25.420 who is involved so they have to persuade 1:04:23.050,1:04:28.000 or push or punish somebody else to give 1:04:25.420,1:04:31.680 up on their part of the private key in 1:04:28.000,1:04:31.680 order for them to collect funds 1:04:32.289,1:04:37.130 yeah this is an interesting thing to 1:04:35.420,1:04:40.630 than to hell what what they gonna be 1:04:37.130,1:04:43.190 doing if they cannot pursue you know 1:04:40.630,1:04:44.660 punishments they we're trying to impose 1:04:43.190,1:04:46.849 fines or something what they gonna be 1:04:44.660,1:04:48.499 preferring more are they gonna be using 1:04:46.849,1:04:51.049 sanctions or keep putting people into 1:04:48.499,1:04:57.229 jail or something it often we sure 1:04:51.049,1:04:59.509 that's what's more probable here I was 1:04:57.229,1:05:02.869 thinking about it right now in terms of 1:04:59.509,1:05:05.479 sanctions yeah like for example like you 1:05:02.869,1:05:07.099 just think in terms like how the Chinese 1:05:05.479,1:05:10.400 are running this social credit system 1:05:07.099,1:05:12.680 which is a massive bullshit that they 1:05:10.400,1:05:14.719 like if you do something wrong move over 1:05:12.680,1:05:17.150 their social good but then you cannot 1:05:14.719,1:05:19.999 use the buses or the trains anyway you 1:05:17.150,1:05:21.950 got leave the city you have to go on TV 1:05:19.999,1:05:23.989 use a taxi or buy things in the shops 1:05:21.950,1:05:28.880 and then you need to start working for a 1:05:23.989,1:05:30.859 better hire so just crazy but something 1:05:28.880,1:05:33.890 like this could happen in case of crimes 1:05:30.859,1:05:35.509 like like really bad crimes that that 1:05:33.890,1:05:37.519 this could be applied but not on two 1:05:35.509,1:05:39.589 people like people's freedom shouldn't 1:05:37.519,1:05:41.119 be impeded like this but more like 1:05:39.589,1:05:42.289 people who really did some sort of a 1:05:41.119,1:05:44.869 crime like for example those who 1:05:42.289,1:05:47.630 basically collapsed the financial system 1:05:44.869,1:05:49.910 in 2008 there's never been section 1:05:47.630,1:05:53.449 before only one guy was with sentence 1:05:49.910,1:05:55.729 and everybody else got up the stuff on 1:05:53.449,1:05:59.479 the wrist so that's quite quite an 1:05:55.729,1:06:02.299 injustice there it is and to this day 1:05:59.479,1:06:08.150 it's not like we have had a solution or 1:06:02.299,1:06:10.309 any kind of sensor they all resolution 1:06:08.150,1:06:12.829 for the problem it's not like we feel 1:06:10.309,1:06:15.259 like we have had our part of revenge on 1:06:12.829,1:06:19.279 the bankers who basically screwed our 1:06:15.259,1:06:22.819 lives and our generation is basically 1:06:19.279,1:06:25.789 educated on the foundation of that 1:06:22.819,1:06:28.400 financial crisis we saw how our parents 1:06:25.789,1:06:31.549 were getting poorer how some of our 1:06:28.400,1:06:33.440 parents were losing jobs we were seeing 1:06:31.549,1:06:35.359 people talk about the financial crisis 1:06:33.440,1:06:38.209 all the time it was hard for us 1:06:35.359,1:06:41.059 especially as Central and Eastern 1:06:38.209,1:06:44.539 Europeans to understand what happened on 1:06:41.059,1:06:45.380 the other side of the Atlantic and the 1:06:44.539,1:06:46.970 next financial 1:06:45.380,1:06:50.810 crisis is going to be much more 1:06:46.970,1:06:53.900 devastating because more than 50% of the 1:06:50.810,1:06:56.300 world's capital markets are in the 1:06:53.900,1:06:58.700 United States and companies like Apple 1:06:56.300,1:07:01.580 Microsoft Google they own most of the 1:06:58.700,1:07:05.200 stock market capital so if their stock 1:07:01.580,1:07:07.730 market collapses were screwed Lobley 1:07:05.200,1:07:10.370 completely yeah it's a big problem 1:07:07.730,1:07:12.530 also since things like auto mised other 1:07:10.370,1:07:15.220 like you know like a is coming in and 1:07:12.530,1:07:18.200 autumn ization of jobs also coming in 1:07:15.220,1:07:19.280 with robotics and things so people are 1:07:18.200,1:07:22.760 going to make more people going to be 1:07:19.280,1:07:25.990 losing jobs no I think so really I don't 1:07:22.760,1:07:28.190 think so jobs will be replaced but not 1:07:25.990,1:07:30.410 you know some of them will become 1:07:28.190,1:07:31.940 obsolete and replaced by robots but 1:07:30.410,1:07:34.160 you're going to need more people to 1:07:31.940,1:07:36.380 supervise how the artificial 1:07:34.160,1:07:38.950 intelligence works yeah that's what I 1:07:36.380,1:07:41.570 was trying to get it or Devon I have to 1:07:38.950,1:07:42.980 retrain those who will lose to Charles 1:07:41.570,1:07:46.220 because you know without that you won't 1:07:42.980,1:07:48.230 be able to have this functional but then 1:07:46.220,1:07:50.540 there's those there's those just a small 1:07:48.230,1:07:52.250 amount of people also who having a 1:07:50.540,1:07:55.280 really hard time you know being 1:07:52.250,1:07:59.090 retrained and these are usually from the 1:07:55.280,1:08:00.950 unskilled workers who it's really really 1:07:59.090,1:08:03.170 hard to like be purpose their jobs 1:08:00.950,1:08:04.670 because freedom for like in Germany 1:08:03.170,1:08:06.530 where there's like life contracts and 1:08:04.670,1:08:09.350 things like that they able to you know 1:08:06.530,1:08:10.790 or in Japan for example but not not 1:08:09.350,1:08:12.560 fully they're not really doing that 1:08:10.790,1:08:16.790 where you can you know we train the 1:08:12.560,1:08:18.830 workforce to do different type of roles 1:08:16.790,1:08:20.990 in the factory for example where a 1:08:18.830,1:08:23.510 company would invest rather in their 1:08:20.990,1:08:27.080 employees then then lose them who were 1:08:23.510,1:08:29.150 more you know more loyal or something so 1:08:27.080,1:08:32.030 I mean we do have the danger and I'm 1:08:29.150,1:08:34.250 probably gonna disagree with you but I 1:08:32.030,1:08:36.830 think we can do this with with the 1:08:34.250,1:08:38.330 retraining of the workforce to fix all 1:08:36.830,1:08:42.620 the problems but it's gonna be really 1:08:38.330,1:08:46.190 hard one I I think I've heard navall 1:08:42.620,1:08:49.490 ravi Khan's talk about this topic on Joe 1:08:46.190,1:08:52.400 Rogan's podcast and I read with him that 1:08:49.490,1:08:54.650 there is one kind of tasks that 1:08:52.400,1:08:57.110 artificial intelligence will never be 1:08:54.650,1:08:58.730 able to accomplish and that is the 1:08:57.110,1:09:02.000 creative parts 1:08:58.730,1:09:05.080 so you're not going to have artificial 1:09:02.000,1:09:08.600 intelligence robots and algorithms 1:09:05.080,1:09:12.560 produce music that we as humans enjoy or 1:09:08.600,1:09:15.290 poetry or any kind of artistic 1:09:12.560,1:09:17.450 expression that we can only create 1:09:15.290,1:09:20.420 because we have feelings and emotions 1:09:17.450,1:09:22.310 and different states of mind just 1:09:20.420,1:09:25.210 because we're not machines that we're 1:09:22.310,1:09:32.750 not constant in our way of operating 1:09:25.210,1:09:36.820 makes us determined and mmm I don't know 1:09:32.750,1:09:39.620 what the objective is but makes us 1:09:36.820,1:09:43.310 willing and capable of producing art and 1:09:39.620,1:09:46.070 that's something special which tells us 1:09:43.310,1:09:48.410 apart from machines and that's something 1:09:46.070,1:09:50.780 that we need as a society as a society 1:09:48.410,1:09:52.850 to function maybe that in the future 1:09:50.780,1:09:55.010 you're going to have machines which do 1:09:52.850,1:09:58.190 the hard work and we are going to write 1:09:55.010,1:10:01.490 novels we're going to write music and do 1:09:58.190,1:10:04.940 paintings and have much different 1:10:01.490,1:10:08.120 activities or do coding that's quite 1:10:04.940,1:10:10.100 good awesome I mean oh yeah that's the 1:10:08.120,1:10:11.750 problem in gonna be really necessary in 1:10:10.100,1:10:14.810 the future without that you're not gonna 1:10:11.750,1:10:16.820 be probably getting really far away I 1:10:14.810,1:10:19.130 already started learning fit and also 1:10:16.820,1:10:21.220 which is pretty good frelling language 1:10:19.130,1:10:22.460 what everybody hates it from my friends 1:10:21.220,1:10:25.040 peyten 1:10:22.460,1:10:27.950 yeah fighting everybody all of my 1:10:25.040,1:10:30.850 friends probably just an ally are doing 1:10:27.950,1:10:34.010 something stupid but I think it's 1:10:30.850,1:10:35.420 because I mean most of the Bitcoin when 1:10:34.010,1:10:38.120 stuff is running I'm fightin on 1:10:35.420,1:10:40.220 applications I quite fascinating for me 1:10:38.120,1:10:42.040 at least let me see if I could you know 1:10:40.220,1:10:44.540 do something more useful than right now 1:10:42.040,1:10:51.530 let me see programming hey I'm really 1:10:44.540,1:10:55.330 satisfied well I guess it's more 1:10:51.530,1:10:58.490 difficult language to learn at first 1:10:55.330,1:11:00.680 usually you start with C++ or something 1:10:58.490,1:11:02.660 I remember that's what I did in my high 1:11:00.680,1:11:05.840 school days and it's interesting that I 1:11:02.660,1:11:09.200 have a high school degree in computer 1:11:05.840,1:11:12.170 science and I actually passed an exam 1:11:09.200,1:11:12.800 which gave me a certificate to work as a 1:11:12.170,1:11:14.840 computer 1:11:12.800,1:11:18.619 operator but then I went to university 1:11:14.840,1:11:23.050 and did political science and I went 1:11:18.619,1:11:24.880 from hard sciences to social sciences oh 1:11:23.050,1:11:27.559 yeah 1:11:24.880,1:11:29.480 interesting during there yeah well I 1:11:27.559,1:11:34.239 guess I wasn't very good at it I'm not 1:11:29.480,1:11:37.579 good at math and I wasn't being very 1:11:34.239,1:11:40.040 efficient at creating code so in mind 1:11:37.579,1:11:42.800 you made me create some kind of 1:11:40.040,1:11:46.340 instruction I would think it in terms of 1:11:42.800,1:11:48.590 repeating lines of code whereas others 1:11:46.340,1:11:51.530 would find something like a loop to 1:11:48.590,1:11:54.020 generate the whole sequence which 1:11:51.530,1:11:57.139 escaped my mind I wasn't capable of 1:11:54.020,1:11:59.840 conceiving so I I'm not an efficient 1:11:57.139,1:12:02.540 coder or maybe if I try it again I would 1:11:59.840,1:12:05.030 become one I don't know but I know that 1:12:02.540,1:12:08.719 I'm much better in expressing words than 1:12:05.030,1:12:11.449 in writing code and I don't know maybe 1:12:08.719,1:12:16.880 there is room for everybody in this 1:12:11.449,1:12:19.699 world to work and be as good as they can 1:12:16.880,1:12:20.780 be at something more than likely just 1:12:19.699,1:12:23.030 think the criminal creative 1:12:20.780,1:12:24.650 opportunities for people that's the hard 1:12:23.030,1:12:26.480 part you know you need to have the 1:12:24.650,1:12:28.130 capital and then be able to pay them and 1:12:26.480,1:12:31.250 produce something that that kind of 1:12:28.130,1:12:33.940 sustainable in the long run just gets 1:12:31.250,1:12:33.940 more hard all the time 1:12:34.239,1:12:40.790 yeah but coming back to Bitcoin do you 1:12:38.630,1:12:43.520 see anything changing in the future in 1:12:40.790,1:12:45.739 Hungary in regards to it and maybe if 1:12:43.520,1:12:49.480 your government decided to ban it 1:12:45.739,1:12:54.559 completely and do it like in India where 1:12:49.480,1:12:58.090 they say would you be willing to leave 1:12:54.559,1:13:00.949 the country because of that yes I 1:12:58.090,1:13:05.150 wouldn't I already worked out a plan for 1:13:00.949,1:13:06.530 this because I do consider that tongue 1:13:05.150,1:13:09.440 is going to be among the first countries 1:13:06.530,1:13:12.290 to to ban crypto currencies after 1:13:09.440,1:13:14.570 probably after it reaches like two 1:13:12.290,1:13:16.369 hundred fifty thousand dollars so or or 1:13:14.570,1:13:18.469 a million dollars I'm not really sure 1:13:16.369,1:13:22.000 when but it's highly likely they even 1:13:18.469,1:13:22.000 happen within seven years so 1:13:22.250,1:13:26.390 I think this is a danger for people 1:13:24.230,1:13:28.760 getting into it but I can also see that 1:13:26.390,1:13:31.490 that that the next wave adduction will 1:13:28.760,1:13:33.590 probably create will bring up the amount 1:13:31.490,1:13:35.750 of cryptocurrency Bitcoin user still 1:13:33.590,1:13:37.910 number of like 1 million or over a 1:13:35.750,1:13:39.950 million people in Hungary will be 1:13:37.910,1:13:42.170 actively using it and trading it and 1:13:39.950,1:13:43.880 buying stuff with it and and the 1:13:42.170,1:13:45.520 government will definitely notice this 1:13:43.880,1:13:49.550 because right now there's only about 1:13:45.520,1:13:51.110 140,000 people probably hiding because I 1:13:49.550,1:13:53.180 had this really interesting story I had 1:13:51.110,1:13:56.150 once I was coming home from from from 1:13:53.180,1:14:00.430 from be the best and I was in the 1:13:56.150,1:14:04.520 intercity and we are under lumen and 1:14:00.430,1:14:06.020 basically we said I was I was talking 1:14:04.520,1:14:07.730 with the woman because just an issue we 1:14:06.020,1:14:11.150 didn't understand how the train is going 1:14:07.730,1:14:12.410 these days but that attack kind of told 1:14:11.150,1:14:14.630 her and then I started talking to her 1:14:12.410,1:14:18.050 about Bitcoin and then when I got to the 1:14:14.630,1:14:19.730 part about you know how what kind of 1:14:18.050,1:14:22.420 generations are using me like you know 1:14:19.730,1:14:25.340 the younger generations or 20s 1:14:22.420,1:14:28.220 24:28 or using these things the guy 1:14:25.340,1:14:33.530 sitting in the in the cabin on the other 1:14:28.220,1:14:35.660 side who was around 65 seconds it was 65 1:14:33.530,1:14:38.690 actually but he's 65 years old and in 1:14:35.660,1:14:40.460 2007 he was like 10 bitcoins and then 1:14:38.690,1:14:47.390 the whole theory of mine kind of 1:14:40.460,1:14:48.770 collapsed because it was 65 years old so 1:14:47.390,1:14:50.390 it's very interesting so there must be 1:14:48.770,1:14:52.550 like a lot of people in Hungary also 1:14:50.390,1:14:54.250 with Bitcoin and we don't really know 1:14:52.550,1:14:58.480 about these people 1:14:54.250,1:15:00.650 it's interesting I have a theory that 1:14:58.480,1:15:03.380 there are a lot of people who get into 1:15:00.650,1:15:05.840 Bitcoin because they need it not because 1:15:03.380,1:15:07.670 they want to speculate financially but 1:15:05.840,1:15:10.760 because they want to store their value 1:15:07.670,1:15:14.180 in a way that cannot be inflated and 1:15:10.760,1:15:17.320 devalued by their governments oh yeah oh 1:15:14.180,1:15:21.530 yeah I existed all the hungry for inside 1:15:17.320,1:15:24.760 actually so I'm not saying I don't own 1:15:21.530,1:15:28.190 that much I don't consider myself like 1:15:24.760,1:15:30.710 anything near that but since I'm saving 1:15:28.190,1:15:32.390 the lower middle class but I just you 1:15:30.710,1:15:34.910 know was thinking more like in like 1:15:32.390,1:15:35.370 being able to avoid a hyperinflation it 1:15:34.910,1:15:37.800 actually 1:15:35.370,1:15:40.520 Athens so for me it was like logical to 1:15:37.800,1:15:44.040 keep things in between three and four so 1:15:40.520,1:15:46.470 it's quite good in that sense to you 1:15:44.040,1:15:48.570 know to be safe because you know people 1:15:46.470,1:15:50.220 who don't really think about these 1:15:48.570,1:15:54.480 things they're gonna be you know running 1:15:50.220,1:15:56.340 out of options and even last November 1:15:54.480,1:15:59.310 when the price you know crashed like 1:15:56.340,1:16:01.470 3000 like two thousand eight hundred 1:15:59.310,1:16:03.900 euros basically that's what I was 1:16:01.470,1:16:05.670 considering as the last option to for 1:16:03.900,1:16:09.360 people to you know to gain like a whole 1:16:05.670,1:16:10.890 Bitcoin because before this I I'm just 1:16:09.360,1:16:12.840 kinda like thinking here and a lot of 1:16:10.890,1:16:14.610 people bought it quite at a time on 1:16:12.840,1:16:16.260 credit and that's how you know credit 1:16:14.610,1:16:21.090 started burrowing into Bitcoin again 1:16:16.260,1:16:23.310 it's quite interesting yeah but usually 1:16:21.090,1:16:26.940 that's not how it works if you talk 1:16:23.310,1:16:29.430 about the masses and the people who get 1:16:26.940,1:16:33.480 excited in order to speculate on the 1:16:29.430,1:16:37.580 price the FOMO only happens when the 1:16:33.480,1:16:41.310 press coverage starts to emerge and 1:16:37.580,1:16:43.770 20,000 yeah yeah unless they're going to 1:16:41.310,1:16:47.580 publish news articles on every newspaper 1:16:43.770,1:16:49.560 and usually for the people who have been 1:16:47.580,1:16:55.260 around for a long time that that's a 1:16:49.560,1:16:58.320 sell signal yeah that's interesting you 1:16:55.260,1:17:00.030 know I like my seasonal friends they are 1:16:58.320,1:17:01.830 very interesting they actually come out 1:17:00.030,1:17:03.360 all the time when when things start 1:17:01.830,1:17:06.030 getting better and when things started 1:17:03.360,1:17:07.100 going up that this is exactly everything 1:17:06.030,1:17:11.190 like that right now 1:17:07.100,1:17:14.280 they just I I do think that a lot of 1:17:11.190,1:17:18.980 people knows about Bitcoin because I was 1:17:14.280,1:17:22.410 in Croatia on Zika music on one and and 1:17:18.980,1:17:24.030 basically asked all the waitresses who I 1:17:22.410,1:17:26.640 was interacting and if they heard about 1:17:24.030,1:17:30.150 Bitcoin all of them heard about it this 1:17:26.640,1:17:33.180 was really crazy and I don't know if 1:17:30.150,1:17:35.490 that is a good research effort for 1:17:33.180,1:17:37.560 making a such an assumption but implying 1:17:35.490,1:17:39.930 that most people able to speak English I 1:17:37.560,1:17:43.950 mean not not a lot of people because I 1:17:39.930,1:17:45.660 see somebody who cannot but basically 1:17:43.950,1:17:47.190 I'm thinking they're implying here 1:17:45.660,1:17:48.619 instead that they probably heard about 1:17:47.190,1:17:51.230 it in some form or 1:17:48.619,1:17:53.920 and and they've been exposed to the news 1:17:51.230,1:17:57.949 about it so this was very interesting 1:17:53.920,1:18:01.429 yeah Croatia I guess is a very educated 1:17:57.949,1:18:06.020 and wealthy country with very nice views 1:18:01.429,1:18:12.560 and beaches and always a really nice at 1:18:06.020,1:18:15.020 the paradise but on terms they're not 1:18:12.560,1:18:16.849 any better off economically maybe they 1:18:15.020,1:18:19.520 have really great tourism they are going 1:18:16.849,1:18:20.929 on but I wouldn't consider them much 1:18:19.520,1:18:25.250 more better off than what's out there 1:18:20.929,1:18:26.900 Hungary is they probably have more more 1:18:25.250,1:18:29.510 trade going on because they have more 1:18:26.900,1:18:31.280 access to ports and such but in some 1:18:29.510,1:18:33.139 sense if you look at for example the 1:18:31.280,1:18:34.880 minimum wage in Croatia you can only see 1:18:33.139,1:18:37.730 the freezer for like like they have only 1:18:34.880,1:18:41.090 have 100 euro more in average wage in 1:18:37.730,1:18:47.030 Kuna for example then then further what 1:18:41.090,1:18:49.520 Hungarians get so that's usually yes peg 1:18:47.030,1:18:52.670 which I have learned from the experience 1:18:49.520,1:18:54.800 of being a Romanian is that the wealth 1:18:52.670,1:18:57.980 of a country is not determined by the 1:18:54.800,1:19:00.940 resources or by the amounts of trade but 1:18:57.980,1:19:06.110 also by the geopolitical positioning 1:19:00.940,1:19:08.090 yeah we are very close to Russia and we 1:19:06.110,1:19:10.840 have a long history of being and 1:19:08.090,1:19:16.310 diplomatic tensions with the Russians 1:19:10.840,1:19:18.230 and we are you know if they wanted to 1:19:16.310,1:19:21.860 conquer us they could do it maybe in 1:19:18.230,1:19:24.500 five or six hours and there don't be 1:19:21.860,1:19:26.989 much of an effort for them and in order 1:19:24.500,1:19:29.210 for us to preserve our national security 1:19:26.989,1:19:32.179 we have to become allies with the United 1:19:29.210,1:19:34.340 States and the United States is going to 1:19:32.179,1:19:37.159 want us to give them lots of resources 1:19:34.340,1:19:39.650 and access to a lot of stuff and the law 1:19:37.159,1:19:46.460 companies to enter our country and have 1:19:39.650,1:19:50.619 special tax facilities so we are going 1:19:46.460,1:19:54.469 to be impoverished by our search for 1:19:50.619,1:19:57.770 national security and independence of as 1:19:54.469,1:19:59.690 a country even though we have we have 1:19:57.770,1:20:05.150 gold mines we have 1:19:59.690,1:20:07.070 very very rich woods which Canadian and 1:20:05.150,1:20:10.250 American companies are cutting down 1:20:07.070,1:20:13.190 these days and it just makes you wonder 1:20:10.250,1:20:16.910 it makes you think okay we pay a very 1:20:13.190,1:20:19.910 high price for our security and for our 1:20:16.910,1:20:23.480 are we yeah are we being exploited for 1:20:19.910,1:20:25.550 it or not or if the secures insecurity 1:20:23.480,1:20:27.560 in this alliance is worth more than 1:20:25.550,1:20:30.560 having a threat of a Russian invasion 1:20:27.560,1:20:33.230 like what happened to Ukraine or or 1:20:30.560,1:20:35.900 Georgia this is a very good question 1:20:33.230,1:20:38.930 because neither Georgia nor Ukraine had 1:20:35.900,1:20:41.360 the protections of the NATO and look 1:20:38.930,1:20:43.370 what happened to them it's quite 1:20:41.360,1:20:45.620 interesting yeah and like how countries 1:20:43.370,1:20:47.930 I'm being abuse prison in Africa by by 1:20:45.620,1:20:50.300 China and Chinese companies moving to 1:20:47.930,1:20:52.730 into South Africa or other countries and 1:20:50.300,1:20:56.650 then instead of hiring local and plus 1:20:52.730,1:21:00.080 employees they bring Chinese workers 1:20:56.650,1:21:02.960 that's very common also when the United 1:21:00.080,1:21:05.780 States sends humanitarian aid to other 1:21:02.960,1:21:08.210 countries they use American ships they 1:21:05.780,1:21:10.700 buy products from American companies and 1:21:08.210,1:21:12.830 they make sure that the money pours back 1:21:10.700,1:21:16.670 into their economy one way or the other 1:21:12.830,1:21:19.130 so it's a protectionist measure which 1:21:16.670,1:21:21.980 supports your economy and that makes a 1:21:19.130,1:21:24.080 lot of sense but anyway one last point 1:21:21.980,1:21:26.570 that I want to make in this podcast that 1:21:24.080,1:21:30.740 we're doing is that sometimes I think 1:21:26.570,1:21:34.130 that Bitcoin undermines the power of the 1:21:30.740,1:21:37.700 United States in the world and it makes 1:21:34.130,1:21:40.400 me wonder sometimes I say to myself am I 1:21:37.700,1:21:45.500 really helping Russia or China rise to 1:21:40.400,1:21:50.050 power because obviously bitcoin is not a 1:21:45.500,1:21:53.810 mean which helps the American government 1:21:50.050,1:21:55.250 it definitely undermines everything but 1:21:53.810,1:21:56.390 at the same time it's not good for 1:21:55.250,1:21:58.600 everybody else 1:21:56.390,1:22:01.010 I do have theories like how 1:21:58.600,1:22:04.490 dictatorships could operate under a 1:22:01.010,1:22:06.800 Bitcoin system but one interesting thing 1:22:04.490,1:22:09.469 that one of my friends basically had is 1:22:06.800,1:22:12.290 that he said that he had a theory 1:22:09.469,1:22:13.820 that the CIA created Bitcoin because he 1:22:12.290,1:22:16.070 thought that only the CIA could have 1:22:13.820,1:22:17.900 like this we've seen same capability we 1:22:16.070,1:22:19.430 used to figure out a complex system like 1:22:17.900,1:22:22.070 this and we thought that maybe they 1:22:19.430,1:22:24.890 wanted to use it to to undermine a 1:22:22.070,1:22:27.020 country somehow and then this kind of 1:22:24.890,1:22:28.400 went loose and they couldn't control it 1:22:27.020,1:22:31.969 anymore 1:22:28.400,1:22:34.880 it's just quite crazy I don't know I 1:22:31.969,1:22:38.900 don't think so that this is the case but 1:22:34.880,1:22:40.580 it could I don't know it's it's more 1:22:38.900,1:22:42.350 than likely that sort of shifting their 1:22:40.580,1:22:44.960 server and you loose with this podcast 1:22:42.350,1:22:49.250 also and he's still helping you know 1:22:44.960,1:22:50.660 develop Bitcoin I mean probably can't be 1:22:49.250,1:22:53.300 that crazy to quit it and you probably 1:22:50.660,1:22:57.080 be too addicted also to to just create 1:22:53.300,1:23:02.690 it like that if you're listening by 1:22:57.080,1:23:05.239 Satoshi we love you okay so so like it 1:23:02.690,1:23:07.790 does undermine the power of the United 1:23:05.239,1:23:14.900 States as bill Sherman so like Bitcoin 1:23:07.790,1:23:16.969 show every every transaction raised 1:23:14.900,1:23:18.710 international transaction even credit 1:23:16.969,1:23:21.320 and debit card transactions sometimes 1:23:18.710,1:23:23.090 get right to the United States in the 1:23:21.320,1:23:25.940 New York said which is very interesting 1:23:23.090,1:23:27.890 like like you know like the the 1:23:25.940,1:23:31.790 international trade goes to the dollar 1:23:27.890,1:23:34.550 to buy oil and whatever else and and you 1:23:31.790,1:23:36.890 know if you give power back into the 1:23:34.550,1:23:39.580 hands of the people you remove the power 1:23:36.890,1:23:43.370 from the hands of dirty politicians in 1:23:39.580,1:23:45.020 DC and and they they won't like that 1:23:43.370,1:23:47.090 they probably gonna try to do something 1:23:45.020,1:23:49.610 against it they're gonna try probably 1:23:47.090,1:23:50.210 dilute this early totally Facebook's 1:23:49.610,1:23:52.340 libros 1:23:50.210,1:23:54.380 is a dilution right now I'm not really 1:23:52.340,1:23:56.989 sure or just Zuckerberg is you know 1:23:54.380,1:24:01.010 trying to be really really power hungry 1:23:56.989,1:24:02.390 I'm not sure but it is true but you know 1:24:01.010,1:24:04.040 when people are gonna figure out how to 1:24:02.390,1:24:06.590 use this system for properly and 1:24:04.040,1:24:07.880 correctly all-out territorial 1:24:06.590,1:24:11.860 governments gonna gonna collapse 1:24:07.880,1:24:15.860 basically this is like a vaccine against 1:24:11.860,1:24:18.140 totalitarianism as it's Telep said it 1:24:15.860,1:24:21.920 there is the preface of a Bitcoin 1:24:18.140,1:24:23.750 standard that the Bitcoin is basically 1:24:21.920,1:24:26.030 an insurance policy against an 1:24:23.750,1:24:29.390 overvalued future and this is totally 1:24:26.030,1:24:31.820 true I think we have too much more 1:24:29.390,1:24:35.690 American than United States right now 1:24:31.820,1:24:38.480 and when I say American I mean according 1:24:35.690,1:24:41.930 to the principles of Thomas Jefferson 1:24:38.480,1:24:44.390 and James Madison and their political 1:24:41.930,1:24:46.730 thoughts as founding fathers of the 1:24:44.390,1:24:48.800 United States yeah but it doesn't 1:24:46.730,1:24:52.640 explain the fact that that there are 1:24:48.800,1:24:54.590 more European notes running that that 1:24:52.640,1:24:56.840 that that there are more nodes in the 1:24:54.590,1:24:59.030 European Union and in Europe than in the 1:24:56.840,1:25:00.830 United States because I had a pair 1:24:59.030,1:25:03.080 appear said that the European adoption 1:25:00.830,1:25:06.200 process somehow eclipsed that of the 1:25:03.080,1:25:07.730 American so somehow we adopted this but 1:25:06.200,1:25:10.790 we're able to better adopt this 1:25:07.730,1:25:13.220 mentality an ideology probably then the 1:25:10.790,1:25:15.770 Americans are able to now they feel 1:25:13.220,1:25:19.960 quite wonderful and anybody but I guess 1:25:15.770,1:25:22.490 we get better education in Europe yeah 1:25:19.960,1:25:23.570 that's probably true it's mostly free 1:25:22.490,1:25:27.290 assignments 1:25:23.570,1:25:29.630 yeah I agree yes yes so you don't get 1:25:27.290,1:25:31.580 pissed on it but yes it's even my 1:25:29.630,1:25:33.920 education for example of a master 1:25:31.580,1:25:36.050 student it's completely free and I'm 1:25:33.920,1:25:37.880 basically just abusing this course to to 1:25:36.050,1:25:39.380 research Bitcoin because I know this is 1:25:37.880,1:25:40.510 so important topic that nobody's 1:25:39.380,1:25:44.210 researching it 1:25:40.510,1:25:45.770 somebody has to work on it in the end if 1:25:44.210,1:25:49.970 I won't work I mean who is going to 1:25:45.770,1:25:53.030 forego it nobody else I'm doing the same 1:25:49.970,1:25:55.730 with my PhD and my supervisor doesn't 1:25:53.030,1:25:57.850 like it and I try to sugarcoat it with 1:25:55.730,1:26:02.180 what he gives me and try to make some 1:25:57.850,1:26:03.200 stuff yeah I always get asked even 1:26:02.180,1:26:07.610 inside there 1:26:03.200,1:26:11.180 how does this get connected to my night 1:26:07.610,1:26:12.770 my course and I'm starting to think that 1:26:11.180,1:26:15.910 the time is going to come and they 1:26:12.770,1:26:18.770 figure out all this this this thing and 1:26:15.910,1:26:20.540 if book it's just gonna be very too late 1:26:18.770,1:26:22.790 by then it's just gonna be like Bitcoin 1:26:20.540,1:26:25.460 it's going through big to big and it's 1:26:22.790,1:26:27.110 aiming for the moon now and they can't 1:26:25.460,1:26:28.910 do anything they can't shut it down they 1:26:27.110,1:26:33.340 can't do anything about it and it's just 1:26:28.910,1:26:33.340 gonna happen so basically 1:26:33.730,1:26:40.490 it's crazy by the time they figure it 1:26:37.280,1:26:42.380 out I guess I will not be as interested 1:26:40.490,1:26:44.450 to write the same thesis and I will not 1:26:42.380,1:26:47.780 be having the same time and energy to 1:26:44.450,1:26:50.470 waste on it yeah but maybe somebody else 1:26:47.780,1:26:52.550 will do a better job than I ever will 1:26:50.470,1:26:54.440 probably whether you cannot Betty can 1:26:52.550,1:26:56.150 always use your work as a basis to 1:26:54.440,1:26:58.640 improve upon it which is really 1:26:56.150,1:27:00.080 important because you know if you 1:26:58.640,1:27:03.380 wouldn't write it oh I wouldn't write 1:27:00.080,1:27:05.930 this this thesis or dissertation then 1:27:03.380,1:27:07.700 then nobody the other people would have 1:27:05.930,1:27:09.650 a much harder time getting started and 1:27:07.700,1:27:11.900 having the sound basis for their own 1:27:09.650,1:27:15.380 research and that's a big problem 1:27:11.900,1:27:17.120 because you know then just we get stuck 1:27:15.380,1:27:19.130 in this whole thing and then you know 1:27:17.120,1:27:20.780 when the problems start happening people 1:27:19.130,1:27:23.150 won't have time to research the meaning 1:27:20.780,1:27:25.100 of the system or the things that wise 1:27:23.150,1:27:26.390 why it's happening and then they're 1:27:25.100,1:27:28.130 gonna have to start focusing on other 1:27:26.390,1:27:30.110 problems and they probably gonna get 1:27:28.130,1:27:32.800 diluted with the problems then then 1:27:30.110,1:27:35.780 focusing the entire system itself and 1:27:32.800,1:27:38.690 some inner meanings of it so which is 1:27:35.780,1:27:41.150 quite a danger here yeah it makes sense 1:27:38.690,1:27:43.370 and the way you know that this is part 1:27:41.150,1:27:46.010 of the early days of the phenomenon is 1:27:43.370,1:27:50.090 that when you look at research papers 1:27:46.010,1:27:52.430 written by cryptographers and developers 1:27:50.090,1:27:55.580 in the space you're going to see how the 1:27:52.430,1:27:58.340 references actually quote discussions on 1:27:55.580,1:28:00.920 the Bitcoin talk forum yeah and that's 1:27:58.340,1:28:03.860 incredible that's not academic in any 1:28:00.920,1:28:09.200 sense but it's much more educated that 1:28:03.860,1:28:11.000 than any paper in the panel yeah it's 1:28:09.200,1:28:13.310 very interesting yes this is basically 1:28:11.000,1:28:15.350 no research being done it's not even for 1:28:13.310,1:28:19.220 me for example sociological research 1:28:15.350,1:28:21.590 that's been done I can't use anything 1:28:19.220,1:28:22.790 good I need to you know look into 1:28:21.590,1:28:25.520 everything and then you know use the 1:28:22.790,1:28:28.010 fragment that I can find the breadcrumbs 1:28:25.520,1:28:32.180 that I can you puzzle together there's 1:28:28.010,1:28:34.210 an underlying basis for my work it's 1:28:32.180,1:28:38.360 quite difficult 1:28:34.210,1:28:40.640 okay so Kairos aghoris how can people 1:28:38.360,1:28:44.090 find you on twitter and maybe inquire 1:28:40.640,1:28:46.280 about your teases or talk to you as a 1:28:44.090,1:28:49.050 fellow Bitcoin Club 1:28:46.280,1:28:51.929 basically they can hit me up on the 1:28:49.050,1:28:55.530 Bitcoin slap check on telegram or hook 1:28:51.929,1:29:13.230 me up at CarGurus on Twitter so it's 1:28:55.530,1:29:15.330 it's a I kr arrow Z or ka ROC yeah 1:29:13.230,1:29:18.270 basically so they can hit me up I have 1:29:15.330,1:29:20.610 my DMS open and just feel free to 1:29:18.270,1:29:25.770 message me anybody wants asking about it 1:29:20.610,1:29:28.380 I'm quite approachable so it was really 1:29:25.770,1:29:32.820 great to talk to you in like wise hope 1:29:28.380,1:29:35.600 we'll talk again thank you very much bye 1:29:32.820,1:29:35.600 see