In his 6+ years of being in the Bitcoin space, Patrick Miller has been able to observe many of the developments and dynamic shifts that occurred. He witnessed everything from the accidental hard fork to the scaling debates which divided the community between Austrians and Keynesians.
However, Patrick has chosen to use the largest majority of his time on the Bitcoin Takeover Podcast to talk about the fundamentals of Bitcoin and what it is that sets it apart from all the altcoins. His message is really timeless and concerns all market cycles that precede the interview and will come, as it’s unlikely that people will still talk about EOS in 2025 just like we no longer talk about Namecoin in 2019.
Furthermore, Patrick Miller chooses to emphasize on the libertarian principles of responsibility and sovereignty, without which the immersion in Bitcoin becomes troublesome and burdensome. Part of the monetary freedom involves understanding that no trusted third party can make a miraculous save, and this fact should be empowering.
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50% of on-chain BTC donations will be sent to Patrick Miller as a way of rewarding his time, energy, and resourcefulness. If he refuses the sats, then they will be directed to a charity of his choice.
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0:00:00.560,0:00:13.109 [Music] 0:00:15.740,0:00:25.790 [Music] 0:00:27.810,0:00:34.020 [Music] 0:00:43.920,0:00:48.409 [Music] 0:00:49.149,0:00:53.300 hi and welcome to the Bitcoin takeover 0:00:52.550,0:00:56.570 podcast 0:00:53.300,0:00:59.269 I am glad and today my guest is Patrick 0:00:56.570,0:01:02.780 Miller who has been a bitcoiners since 0:00:59.269,0:01:05.600 2013 likes to write articles about 0:01:02.780,0:01:10.130 Bitcoin and he also does Bitcoin meetups 0:01:05.600,0:01:11.780 in his City and hi Patrick 0:01:10.130,0:01:13.940 I guess my first question for you is 0:01:11.780,0:01:17.720 going to be about how you have changed 0:01:13.940,0:01:22.759 your opinion about Bitcoin in the five 0:01:17.720,0:01:26.240 years that you have been involved thanks 0:01:22.759,0:01:28.580 for having me but my opinion about 0:01:26.240,0:01:30.770 Bitcoin is in the last five years has 0:01:28.580,0:01:33.259 changed really 0:01:30.770,0:01:38.000 my understanding of Bitcoin has changed 0:01:33.259,0:01:43.280 a lot I for a long time didn't really 0:01:38.000,0:01:44.690 understand the really important factor 0:01:43.280,0:01:46.929 about Bitcoin which is monetary 0:01:44.690,0:01:49.970 sovereignty personal sovereignty 0:01:46.929,0:01:51.830 personal responsibility low time 0:01:49.970,0:01:54.170 preference so when I first got into the 0:01:51.830,0:01:56.420 Bitcoin space I like many others was 0:01:54.170,0:01:58.550 sort of confused about what it was 0:01:56.420,0:02:00.679 useful for I thought you know was it 0:01:58.550,0:02:03.229 good for payments was it was the 0:02:00.679,0:02:05.090 blockchain some like database that could 0:02:03.229,0:02:08.300 be used for applications and of all 0:02:05.090,0:02:10.700 types and over time I came to realize 0:02:08.300,0:02:13.280 that none of these things matter at all 0:02:10.700,0:02:15.349 if you don't have a secure store of 0:02:13.280,0:02:17.650 value that you can hold for the long 0:02:15.349,0:02:17.650 term 0:02:17.660,0:02:22.760 that can mean cannot be censored that is 0:02:20.030,0:02:24.200 essentially uncomf escapable so I now 0:02:22.760,0:02:26.540 today I have a different point of view 0:02:24.200,0:02:29.330 about Bitcoin than I did five years ago 0:02:26.540,0:02:31.340 I do see Bitcoin as the ultimate hedge 0:02:29.330,0:02:35.810 it I like to refer to it as the people's 0:02:31.340,0:02:39.440 hedge now I guess this change of 0:02:35.810,0:02:41.660 narrative has also helped as before we 0:02:39.440,0:02:45.170 had that hard fork where the Bitcoin 0:02:41.660,0:02:47.180 cash side was created and all the key 0:02:45.170,0:02:49.550 nations who wants it to spend their 0:02:47.180,0:02:52.430 Bitcoin went to a different chain and 0:02:49.550,0:02:55.020 started their own project we didn't have 0:02:52.430,0:02:57.630 much development in this regard 0:02:55.020,0:02:59.670 and now we get to maintain the main 0:02:57.630,0:03:01.890 qualities that we appreciate about 0:02:59.670,0:03:05.220 Bitcoin and develop a second layer 0:03:01.890,0:03:09.030 that's meant to serve that merchants 0:03:05.220,0:03:12.120 adoption purpose that we also hope that 0:03:09.030,0:03:14.970 we can achieve but even if that fails 0:03:12.120,0:03:18.240 it's fine because we retain these 0:03:14.970,0:03:22.140 qualities of emits a not immutability 0:03:18.240,0:03:27.000 uncensor ability and uncomf-- estates 0:03:22.140,0:03:28.890 ability these are human words yeah yeah 0:03:27.000,0:03:31.650 I agree we don't actually know how it's 0:03:28.890,0:03:34.950 all gonna play out so it makes a lot 0:03:31.650,0:03:37.740 more sense to to do optimizations before 0:03:34.950,0:03:40.860 trying to scale up I like the 0:03:37.740,0:03:43.170 terminology first you scale down then 0:03:40.860,0:03:45.900 you scale out and then you scale up and 0:03:43.170,0:03:48.200 that is exactly what I think the Bitcoin 0:03:45.900,0:03:51.540 developers are doing they are optimizing 0:03:48.200,0:03:53.580 for the main chain they are packing as 0:03:51.540,0:03:57.480 much as they can into the smallest 0:03:53.580,0:03:59.310 amount of space which allows for a large 0:03:57.480,0:04:00.960 amount of social scalability it means 0:03:59.310,0:04:03.600 that a lot more people can use the 0:04:00.960,0:04:05.040 blockchain and they can interact 0:04:03.600,0:04:08.130 directly with the blockchain by 0:04:05.040,0:04:09.810 downloading it and they can you know and 0:04:08.130,0:04:11.070 this and this is a way that this is the 0:04:09.810,0:04:13.800 way that we are board millions of 0:04:11.070,0:04:16.739 billions of people over the long term is 0:04:13.800,0:04:21.060 creating solutions that scale socially 0:04:16.739,0:04:24.020 as well as technically yeah and I guess 0:04:21.060,0:04:27.060 when you first got into Bitcoin also the 0:04:24.020,0:04:29.910 figures and the most influential people 0:04:27.060,0:04:32.640 around were different you had Jeff 0:04:29.910,0:04:35.700 garsik and Gavin Andresen 0:04:32.640,0:04:38.100 and I guess Roger Revere was still 0:04:35.700,0:04:40.200 considered to be between Jesus and the 0:04:38.100,0:04:44.910 guy who really helped spread the word 0:04:40.200,0:04:46.410 about the gospel of Satoshi ya the 0:04:44.910,0:04:50.610 people who are doing the real Bitcoin 0:04:46.410,0:04:53.760 work at the time you know Bitcoin a lot 0:04:50.610,0:04:54.570 of the development was discussed on the 0:04:53.760,0:04:57.660 mailing list 0:04:54.570,0:05:01.770 it was various highly technical it was 0:04:57.660,0:05:04.169 being discussed on IRC and so it was 0:05:01.770,0:05:05.700 kind of hidden away a lot of the disk 0:05:04.169,0:05:07.350 there was discussion on Bitcoin talked 0:05:05.700,0:05:09.960 up org 0:05:07.350,0:05:11.880 but you know the the a lot of the people 0:05:09.960,0:05:13.980 that were really technically involved in 0:05:11.880,0:05:15.390 Bitcoin we're not the people that you 0:05:13.980,0:05:17.880 might have seen right away a lot of 0:05:15.390,0:05:19.560 people that you saw right away which you 0:05:17.880,0:05:21.570 came into space back then we're yeah you 0:05:19.560,0:05:23.340 saw them you saw the Roger beers and you 0:05:21.570,0:05:25.970 saw the people that were they were out 0:05:23.340,0:05:28.710 there sort of marketing and they were 0:05:25.970,0:05:30.360 they were promoting Bitcoin in the way 0:05:28.710,0:05:33.630 that at the time that they thought it 0:05:30.360,0:05:36.660 was made sense and maybe at that time it 0:05:33.630,0:05:38.400 did make sense to do that but they 0:05:36.660,0:05:40.380 didn't properly adjust their 0:05:38.400,0:05:42.300 expectations as we learn more 0:05:40.380,0:05:44.220 information so as we learn more 0:05:42.300,0:05:46.980 information about scalability and about 0:05:44.220,0:05:49.920 both technical scalability and social 0:05:46.980,0:05:52.950 scalability you have to adapt and change 0:05:49.920,0:05:55.620 your the way you look at things we also 0:05:52.950,0:05:59.340 now you know just have an intuitive 0:05:55.620,0:06:01.050 sense that it people don't really want 0:05:59.340,0:06:03.900 to spend their bitcoins a lot of people 0:06:01.050,0:06:06.000 want to hold their bitcoins that because 0:06:03.900,0:06:07.950 in order to obtain Bitcoin they have to 0:06:06.000,0:06:11.640 go buy it on an exchange or you know 0:06:07.950,0:06:12.870 it's still difficult to use and it could 0:06:11.640,0:06:15.720 be problematic to use it in many 0:06:12.870,0:06:17.100 countries in the early cases of using 0:06:15.720,0:06:19.050 Bitcoin we saw that it was used 0:06:17.100,0:06:21.630 primarily on the Internet 0:06:19.050,0:06:23.490 to purchase things from the Silk Road so 0:06:21.630,0:06:26.610 it may they made a lot of sense as an 0:06:23.490,0:06:28.830 internet currency in those early days 0:06:26.610,0:06:31.530 but that doesn't necessarily mean that 0:06:28.830,0:06:34.920 it's that useful or practical for in in 0:06:31.530,0:06:39.000 person payments at your local store for 0:06:34.920,0:06:41.760 example one of the discussions that I 0:06:39.000,0:06:44.820 have with my friends sometimes when it 0:06:41.760,0:06:47.130 comes to Bitcoin is about ideology and I 0:06:44.820,0:06:50.840 have a background in political science 0:06:47.130,0:06:53.460 and some of my university colleagues are 0:06:50.840,0:06:55.980 Marxists and find themselves on the left 0:06:53.460,0:07:00.630 side of the debate and they say that 0:06:55.980,0:07:03.390 bitcoin is only for libertarians and on 0:07:00.630,0:07:06.180 our whole capitalists who want to get 0:07:03.390,0:07:09.240 away from the government and I sometimes 0:07:06.180,0:07:12.930 like to think that there's so much more 0:07:09.240,0:07:17.000 to it than this idea of getting away 0:07:12.930,0:07:17.000 from the government and I 0:07:17.680,0:07:23.500 I guess it's a problem of our generation 0:07:19.990,0:07:25.630 first of all as the baby boomers and Gen 0:07:23.500,0:07:28.210 Xers and I'm not sure if you're a 0:07:25.630,0:07:32.430 millennial or you consider yourselves to 0:07:28.210,0:07:35.889 be one but our generation tends to be 0:07:32.430,0:07:39.820 more open to the idea of government 0:07:35.889,0:07:42.280 intervention while our parents were more 0:07:39.820,0:07:44.229 libertarian and they did not want the 0:07:42.280,0:07:46.600 government to get into their affairs and 0:07:44.229,0:07:49.750 they were learning in school to protect 0:07:46.600,0:07:52.479 their liberty and try to stay away as 0:07:49.750,0:07:54.970 much as possible from the government 0:07:52.479,0:07:59.699 that is trying to grow and extend its 0:07:54.970,0:08:02.380 branches to all all that concerns 0:07:59.699,0:08:07.270 society and everything that concerns 0:08:02.380,0:08:09.060 economics yeah I think that well I think 0:08:07.270,0:08:12.099 a lot of people like to attribute 0:08:09.060,0:08:14.370 economic prosperity to like central 0:08:12.099,0:08:16.720 banking or the financial system that 0:08:14.370,0:08:19.270 that was maybe promoted by central banks 0:08:16.720,0:08:22.020 but this doesn't really this is I think 0:08:19.270,0:08:24.789 a myopic way to look at the world and 0:08:22.020,0:08:26.919 actually when we look at technological 0:08:24.789,0:08:28.990 progress we see that technology was the 0:08:26.919,0:08:33.039 primary driver of prosperity and 0:08:28.990,0:08:34.539 innovation not fiat currency I think 0:08:33.039,0:08:39.010 that today's generation of Millennials 0:08:34.539,0:08:40.570 and Gen Xers I'm sort of on the early 0:08:39.010,0:08:42.130 end of the Millennials and like one of 0:08:40.570,0:08:47.110 the first probably Millennials that they 0:08:42.130,0:08:49.900 would call that the they don't know this 0:08:47.110,0:08:52.959 generation my generation and they and 0:08:49.900,0:08:55.959 the younger generation they don't have a 0:08:52.959,0:08:58.839 way to get in they don't have a way to 0:08:55.959,0:09:01.060 store value in a way that's reliable 0:08:58.839,0:09:03.459 they don't have investment opportunities 0:09:01.060,0:09:05.980 like real estate that their parents had 0:09:03.459,0:09:08.740 they don't have bank accounts that 0:09:05.980,0:09:10.770 produce a decent interest rate they 0:09:08.740,0:09:13.660 don't have a stock market that isn't 0:09:10.770,0:09:16.209 manipulated today's all of today's 0:09:13.660,0:09:19.600 markets are clearly bubbles it does not 0:09:16.209,0:09:21.880 really take a genius to look at the 0:09:19.600,0:09:24.550 current prices for property and housing 0:09:21.880,0:09:26.529 and all sorts of assets out there and 0:09:24.550,0:09:28.329 know that you're automatically priced 0:09:26.529,0:09:30.190 pretty much priced out of these things 0:09:28.329,0:09:32.910 in today's generation it will 0:09:30.190,0:09:35.440 take you a lifetime and not only that 0:09:32.910,0:09:37.149 your most you know our generation is 0:09:35.440,0:09:38.800 also incredibly encumbered by student 0:09:37.149,0:09:41.050 loan debt especially the United States 0:09:38.800,0:09:43.779 student a little bit is absolutely 0:09:41.050,0:09:45.610 crippling this generation that we this 0:09:43.779,0:09:47.439 is a generation that will probably never 0:09:45.610,0:09:49.810 own property probably will never be able 0:09:47.439,0:09:51.129 to invest retirement they have very 0:09:49.810,0:09:54.129 limited opportunities for hedging 0:09:51.129,0:09:55.899 themselves against calamity 0:09:54.129,0:09:58.180 so bitcoin is one of the few options 0:09:55.899,0:10:00.579 that today's generation has to protect 0:09:58.180,0:10:03.730 their wealth and that's the way I look 0:10:00.579,0:10:06.220 at it yeah that makes a lot of sense but 0:10:03.730,0:10:09.339 when you think about it I think that our 0:10:06.220,0:10:12.279 parents and our grandparents would be 0:10:09.339,0:10:16.329 much more open to the idea of Bitcoin as 0:10:12.279,0:10:18.339 a currency that is not created by any 0:10:16.329,0:10:20.230 government and there's not under the 0:10:18.339,0:10:22.720 control of any government and no 0:10:20.230,0:10:26.079 government can confiscate it so if you 0:10:22.720,0:10:29.319 present these free qualities to baby 0:10:26.079,0:10:32.290 boomers and Gen Xers then I guess they 0:10:29.319,0:10:36.579 would be more excited and more open to 0:10:32.290,0:10:40.120 this idea whereas digital money is not 0:10:36.579,0:10:42.130 all that exciting and I guess you get 0:10:40.120,0:10:44.649 most of the services with the credit 0:10:42.130,0:10:47.519 card and they have been using credit 0:10:44.649,0:10:49.600 cards I guess since the 60s 0:10:47.519,0:10:51.639 yeah and today's you in today's 0:10:49.600,0:10:53.110 generation they have been MO and they 0:10:51.639,0:10:55.360 have cash app and they have these 0:10:53.110,0:10:58.180 payment apps and China they have WeChat 0:10:55.360,0:10:59.380 and other applications all you pay they 0:10:58.180,0:11:02.290 already have the applications that 0:10:59.380,0:11:05.589 allowed them to transfer money you know 0:11:02.290,0:11:08.680 very quickly yes these systems are like 0:11:05.589,0:11:11.439 centralized however that's irrelevant 0:11:08.680,0:11:14.110 for their purposes you know the vast 0:11:11.439,0:11:16.420 majority of people today can go about 0:11:14.110,0:11:19.779 their daily lives and they can earn 0:11:16.420,0:11:21.670 money and they can go make payments and 0:11:19.779,0:11:24.209 they don't have an issue with that what 0:11:21.670,0:11:27.730 they have an issue with is losing money 0:11:24.209,0:11:29.620 due to monetary manipulation so over 0:11:27.730,0:11:32.350 time their money loses value because of 0:11:29.620,0:11:34.990 inflation I think you're right that the 0:11:32.350,0:11:36.639 baby boomer generation they actually 0:11:34.990,0:11:38.500 experienced as the United States more 0:11:36.639,0:11:40.120 than our generation the current 0:11:38.500,0:11:40.810 generation of Americans my age and 0:11:40.120,0:11:43.330 younger 0:11:40.810,0:11:46.170 are totally insulated and have no idea 0:11:43.330,0:11:48.610 they have very little understanding of 0:11:46.170,0:11:50.500 monetary economics they don't understand 0:11:48.610,0:11:52.029 the problems that have occurred in the 0:11:50.500,0:11:55.540 developing world they don't understand 0:11:52.029,0:11:59.470 what hyperinflation is they don't 0:11:55.540,0:12:01.390 understand these things they also don't 0:11:59.470,0:12:04.029 have any desire to have personal 0:12:01.390,0:12:05.380 responsibility and they definitely don't 0:12:04.029,0:12:08.050 want to protect their own money they 0:12:05.380,0:12:10.120 want something that's secure so 0:12:08.050,0:12:12.880 theoretically secure that it's insured 0:12:10.120,0:12:14.950 by their government and yeah I don't 0:12:12.880,0:12:17.830 actually know necessarily why this is 0:12:14.950,0:12:19.900 the case but I simply think that it's 0:12:17.830,0:12:21.550 probably partially an education problem 0:12:19.900,0:12:23.950 I simply think that people are not 0:12:21.550,0:12:28.240 taught to ask the questions they should 0:12:23.950,0:12:30.610 be asking also I guess it's the fact 0:12:28.240,0:12:33.910 that Bitcoin can look very intimidating 0:12:30.610,0:12:35.890 for newbies when you first come around 0:12:33.910,0:12:39.750 you you discover about this project 0:12:35.890,0:12:42.339 which in which if you ever lose your 0:12:39.750,0:12:43.870 keys you're not going to get access to 0:12:42.339,0:12:45.940 your coins 0:12:43.870,0:12:50.080 unlike the bank account where you can 0:12:45.940,0:12:53.470 just go to the bank office and present 0:12:50.080,0:12:56.530 your personal ID and get the pin number 0:12:53.470,0:12:59.170 to your credit card there is no such 0:12:56.530,0:13:02.620 service in Bitcoin and you have to take 0:12:59.170,0:13:05.710 responsibility for your keys and your 0:13:02.620,0:13:07.960 sovereignty and this concept can be 0:13:05.710,0:13:10.480 intimidating for a lot of people and 0:13:07.960,0:13:13.810 also the lack of a proper understanding 0:13:10.480,0:13:16.960 that I guess nobody really can claim to 0:13:13.810,0:13:20.290 have unless you are one of the og cypher 0:13:16.960,0:13:24.220 punks and have got him involved since 0:13:20.290,0:13:26.770 2009 as I have spoken to Luigi Bart 0:13:24.220,0:13:29.440 Homer was also on this podcast a few 0:13:26.770,0:13:31.390 days ago and I think the first 0:13:29.440,0:13:33.580 conversation that I ever had with him 0:13:31.390,0:13:36.250 was about the fact that he still 0:13:33.580,0:13:38.770 considers himself to be a Bitcoin noob 0:13:36.250,0:13:41.680 in the sense that he just keeps on 0:13:38.770,0:13:45.070 learning whenever he discovers a new 0:13:41.680,0:13:47.770 dimension which enlarges his perspective 0:13:45.070,0:13:50.200 on the matter he realizes that the 0:13:47.770,0:13:52.230 opinions that he had a few months ago or 0:13:50.200,0:13:55.020 a few years ago 0:13:52.230,0:13:57.780 more or less wrong and he just keeps on 0:13:55.020,0:14:01.320 learning about it so this idea that you 0:13:57.780,0:14:03.480 keep on learning about an asset that is 0:14:01.320,0:14:07.650 not issued by any government and cannot 0:14:03.480,0:14:10.320 be censored can be very divisive and 0:14:07.650,0:14:12.600 intimidating it's not for everyone but 0:14:10.320,0:14:15.120 it should be yeah you're absolutely 0:14:12.600,0:14:17.430 right to his point 0:14:15.120,0:14:19.380 he's totally correct that I am NOT an 0:14:17.430,0:14:22.080 expert in Bitcoin and no matter how long 0:14:19.380,0:14:23.700 you've been a Bitcoin I don't think you 0:14:22.080,0:14:25.260 know you can ever say you're an expert 0:14:23.700,0:14:27.240 per se there are a handful of people 0:14:25.260,0:14:29.460 that understand the protocol very very 0:14:27.240,0:14:31.020 well I wouldn't even necessarily say 0:14:29.460,0:14:33.200 they are experts per se and I don't 0:14:31.020,0:14:35.490 think they would claim they're experts 0:14:33.200,0:14:37.110 anytime you ever hear anyone who says 0:14:35.490,0:14:39.500 they're a bit quicker blockchain expert 0:14:37.110,0:14:42.240 that's a huge red flag 0:14:39.500,0:14:43.860 now the other I want to go to this point 0:14:42.240,0:14:45.810 about securing private keys 0:14:43.860,0:14:48.450 I believe that securing private keys is 0:14:45.810,0:14:50.550 the most important issue and it's the 0:14:48.450,0:14:54.210 it's the biggest problem that we face in 0:14:50.550,0:14:56.130 the Bitcoin and cryptocurrency space and 0:14:54.210,0:14:58.320 this is you know this is a problem that 0:14:56.130,0:14:59.850 you will never hear any certainly never 0:14:58.320,0:15:02.010 hear anybody and the all coin space 0:14:59.850,0:15:03.690 talked about but it's a problem that big 0:15:02.010,0:15:06.600 corners are acutely aware of and 0:15:03.690,0:15:08.240 solutions you know some great solutions 0:15:06.600,0:15:11.300 that are coming down the pike are 0:15:08.240,0:15:14.510 partially signed Bitcoin transactions 0:15:11.300,0:15:17.160 music a very advanced multi signature 0:15:14.510,0:15:19.050 schemas so anyone you know a lot of 0:15:17.160,0:15:20.370 people are costing like they they're 0:15:19.050,0:15:22.770 like well when are we gonna get when is 0:15:20.370,0:15:24.750 Vic I'm gonna go mainstream or how do we 0:15:22.770,0:15:26.610 make it help make the user interface so 0:15:24.750,0:15:29.220 easy for everyone to use that you know 0:15:26.610,0:15:31.280 any dummy can use it well I'm sorry to 0:15:29.220,0:15:34.680 tell them but that's never gonna happen 0:15:31.280,0:15:37.290 if you want to use Bitcoin in actually 0:15:34.680,0:15:38.820 using them and saw your value in it you 0:15:37.290,0:15:40.560 absolutely need to understand what 0:15:38.820,0:15:42.600 private keys are you need to understand 0:15:40.560,0:15:45.090 how to secure your keys you need to 0:15:42.600,0:15:47.730 understand that the best ways to do that 0:15:45.090,0:15:49.020 is multi signature you need to store 0:15:47.730,0:15:50.840 your own version up you need to 0:15:49.020,0:15:53.100 basically store the blockchain yourself 0:15:50.840,0:15:54.300 so yeah you know there's a lot of people 0:15:53.100,0:15:56.280 who want this technology to go 0:15:54.300,0:15:58.650 mainstream but you know mainstream to me 0:15:56.280,0:16:00.000 is just like I don't really care about 0:15:58.650,0:16:01.020 those people if they don't if they're 0:16:00.000,0:16:02.370 not interested in personal 0:16:01.020,0:16:03.630 responsibility and they're not willing 0:16:02.370,0:16:05.340 to take the time understand how to 0:16:03.630,0:16:05.810 secure their wealth they definitely 0:16:05.340,0:16:09.500 should 0:16:05.810,0:16:12.710 devine Bitcoin I guess the process was 0:16:09.500,0:16:16.040 also simplified with the seed words that 0:16:12.710,0:16:20.210 we have in several implementations for 0:16:16.040,0:16:22.850 wallets but it's so difficult this idea 0:16:20.210,0:16:25.250 that you have to keep these words on a 0:16:22.850,0:16:27.830 piece of paper that you can only 0:16:25.250,0:16:30.290 multiply up to the extent that it 0:16:27.830,0:16:31.910 doesn't get in the wrong hands and you 0:16:30.290,0:16:34.730 have to make sure that you always have a 0:16:31.910,0:16:37.430 copy or personally I'm not a fan of 0:16:34.730,0:16:40.220 memorizing the words as I think in terms 0:16:37.430,0:16:43.070 of what if somebody follows me home and 0:16:40.220,0:16:44.930 tortures me all right stuff to me and 0:16:43.070,0:16:47.510 they're not going to leave me alone 0:16:44.930,0:16:49.820 until I told them the word so I'm not 0:16:47.510,0:16:54.130 going to memorize them I guess this is 0:16:49.820,0:16:57.320 part of my personal security measures 0:16:54.130,0:17:00.020 but I don't hold them in these pieces of 0:16:57.320,0:17:02.870 paper that you get from a ledger or from 0:17:00.020,0:17:06.350 acosta know it either you know they give 0:17:02.870,0:17:08.870 you these talk pieces of carton on which 0:17:06.350,0:17:12.890 you can write your seed words and that's 0:17:08.870,0:17:15.620 way too predictable yes yes as a Bitcoin 0:17:12.890,0:17:18.860 er comes into your house and sees like a 0:17:15.620,0:17:21.170 small box where you store your ledger 0:17:18.860,0:17:23.870 there are very high chances for you to 0:17:21.170,0:17:26.089 also have some other piece of evidence 0:17:23.870,0:17:29.630 to point out your private key in there 0:17:26.089,0:17:31.520 that's bad security yeah absolutely 0:17:29.630,0:17:35.120 those are you know I think anyone who 0:17:31.520,0:17:37.190 follows Jameson lop knows that yeah 0:17:35.120,0:17:39.860 security and privacy are incredibly 0:17:37.190,0:17:41.240 important these are like operational 0:17:39.860,0:17:43.880 security is incredibly difficult with 0:17:41.240,0:17:46.250 Bitcoin you know what a lot of people 0:17:43.880,0:17:47.840 say well we need to bank the unbanked in 0:17:46.250,0:17:49.100 these other countries okay well that's 0:17:47.840,0:17:50.960 great but if these people don't have a 0:17:49.100,0:17:54.320 secure place to even store a seed phrase 0:17:50.960,0:17:57.650 then it's all pointless anyways they you 0:17:54.320,0:17:59.420 know the services that what Jameson lop 0:17:57.650,0:18:01.010 is working on with Casa huddle is a 0:17:59.420,0:18:03.679 sovereignty as a service which is a 0:18:01.010,0:18:05.390 multi signature service these are 0:18:03.679,0:18:08.480 incredibly important services that are 0:18:05.390,0:18:10.340 being developed you know and but the 0:18:08.480,0:18:12.500 user interface and the applications and 0:18:10.340,0:18:14.929 the security needs to be developed over 0:18:12.500,0:18:17.360 time to make it easier for people to use 0:18:14.929,0:18:18.890 multi skin mature but yeah you're 0:18:17.360,0:18:21.020 absolutely right that you 0:18:18.890,0:18:22.610 just you you store your distorting your 0:18:21.020,0:18:24.650 private key in your house or you know 0:18:22.610,0:18:27.500 you're on some Steve phrase is not 0:18:24.650,0:18:32.510 necessarily the most secure way to do it 0:18:27.500,0:18:33.830 either and so it is a huge challenge and 0:18:32.510,0:18:35.690 I do see this again as I mentioned 0:18:33.830,0:18:38.510 earlier this is one of my primary 0:18:35.690,0:18:41.270 concerns and the primary challenges with 0:18:38.510,0:18:43.460 being in this space and using crypto 0:18:41.270,0:18:46.190 currencies is securely storing your 0:18:43.460,0:18:48.799 private keys and not having to trust 0:18:46.190,0:18:51.679 other people because like you said you 0:18:48.799,0:18:53.390 can make copies of the sea' phrase you 0:18:51.679,0:18:55.100 could split your seed phrase which can 0:18:53.390,0:18:57.919 be very dangerous if you don't know what 0:18:55.100,0:18:59.780 they're doing but handing out a you know 0:18:57.919,0:19:03.799 if you if your seed freezes in two 0:18:59.780,0:19:05.570 locations at once and but you cannot 0:19:03.799,0:19:07.429 physically be in two locations at once 0:19:05.570,0:19:10.280 then you cannot know if you're a seed 0:19:07.429,0:19:11.510 phrase that's been compromised the same 0:19:10.280,0:19:12.860 thing is true if you split your seed 0:19:11.510,0:19:13.610 phrase and you have half here and half 0:19:12.860,0:19:15.350 somewhere else 0:19:13.610,0:19:19.070 you don't know someone's obtained that 0:19:15.350,0:19:23.299 other half with that half they now have 0:19:19.070,0:19:25.309 potentially the ability to to decrypt 0:19:23.299,0:19:26.750 your entire seed phrase if they can you 0:19:25.309,0:19:28.669 know iterate on it enough with the 0:19:26.750,0:19:33.200 proper software they could crack that 0:19:28.669,0:19:35.270 private key so yeah probably 0:19:33.200,0:19:37.309 you know ski security is a huge problem 0:19:35.270,0:19:40.270 fortunately we have a lot of smart 0:19:37.309,0:19:43.669 people working on this cold card wallet 0:19:40.270,0:19:45.860 by Rodolfo Novak in Canada who's also 0:19:43.669,0:19:47.630 the the creator opened on through this 0:19:45.860,0:19:50.210 company coin kite they're working on 0:19:47.630,0:19:55.190 incredibly important products and 0:19:50.210,0:19:56.600 companies like Jameson's lops cost Patil 0:19:55.190,0:19:59.000 and then you have the samurai Wallet 0:19:56.600,0:20:00.860 dojo no but and then you have all these 0:19:59.000,0:20:04.070 these companies that make these hardware 0:20:00.860,0:20:05.630 or these see phrase you know hard met 0:20:04.070,0:20:07.190 metallic ways to store your see phrase 0:20:05.630,0:20:08.990 these are all these are all important 0:20:07.190,0:20:12.110 technologies that allow people to store 0:20:08.990,0:20:13.460 their stuff but again you you really do 0:20:12.110,0:20:15.290 like you mentioned you really do need a 0:20:13.460,0:20:16.610 secure location to store this and 0:20:15.290,0:20:18.770 putting it in your brain is not 0:20:16.610,0:20:22.490 necessarily the safest a secure way to 0:20:18.770,0:20:26.000 do you I think it's also a lot better 0:20:22.490,0:20:27.670 than pulling all of your cat in your 0:20:26.000,0:20:30.670 house 0:20:27.670,0:20:33.400 but I've also heard the people who I'm 0:20:30.670,0:20:36.190 not sure who it was but if I think very 0:20:33.400,0:20:39.010 hard I can remember there was news about 0:20:36.190,0:20:41.860 somebody holding his private keys in a 0:20:39.010,0:20:44.110 bank account but in the kind of bank 0:20:41.860,0:20:48.910 safes that get with your account and you 0:20:44.110,0:20:53.440 get to store your belongings with a key 0:20:48.910,0:20:56.440 that you only only you possess that's 0:20:53.440,0:21:00.010 kind of ironic to use the services of 0:20:56.440,0:21:01.270 banks to store your private keys I think 0:21:00.010,0:21:05.980 it is ironic and I think it's very 0:21:01.270,0:21:09.880 dangerous now of course it's dangerous 0:21:05.980,0:21:13.030 it's a trusted third party then again 0:21:09.880,0:21:18.000 even software that is not open source 0:21:13.030,0:21:20.140 and not consulted by or verified by 0:21:18.000,0:21:22.600 cryptography and computer science 0:21:20.140,0:21:25.210 experts that's dangerous and I think 0:21:22.600,0:21:28.450 very recently we have seen a hack in 0:21:25.210,0:21:32.980 Konomi wallet where they were there was 0:21:28.450,0:21:35.410 this API from Google which helped with 0:21:32.980,0:21:38.380 the autocorrect part for the seat keys 0:21:35.410,0:21:41.740 and the data was sent to a Google server 0:21:38.380,0:21:45.549 about the words that were typed for the 0:21:41.740,0:21:47.860 seat key or C phrase and somebody has 0:21:45.549,0:21:52.080 hacked into the wallet and stole about I 0:21:47.860,0:21:54.760 think it was $60,000 worth of Bitcoin 0:21:52.080,0:21:57.070 which is insane if you think about it 0:21:54.760,0:21:59.950 this there was this small security hole 0:21:57.070,0:22:04.540 which was caused by a trusted third 0:21:59.950,0:22:06.700 party in in this case autocorrect 0:22:04.540,0:22:08.980 services and you had this engineer on 0:22:06.700,0:22:13.059 the other end who got the words and 0:22:08.980,0:22:17.020 figured out maybe that they grant access 0:22:13.059,0:22:19.900 to a wallet right and all he had to do 0:22:17.020,0:22:25.299 was just input these and move the money 0:22:19.900,0:22:26.799 away and that's it yeah yeah you don't 0:22:25.299,0:22:28.390 hear a lot of people talking about this 0:22:26.799,0:22:31.299 out in the wild you know you don't hear 0:22:28.390,0:22:32.410 these stories but they are very real and 0:22:31.299,0:22:34.929 they're in there 0:22:32.410,0:22:36.730 that's dangerous in fact just using 0:22:34.929,0:22:38.740 Bitcoin out in the wild exposes you to 0:22:36.730,0:22:40.690 risks like this and this is one of the 0:22:38.740,0:22:42.730 reasons why I'm very very particular 0:22:40.690,0:22:46.270 about the hardware and software that I 0:22:42.730,0:22:48.130 use is because this isn't a game and all 0:22:46.270,0:22:49.720 these you know this is this is why all 0:22:48.130,0:22:51.370 coins are in Korea or even more 0:22:49.720,0:22:53.530 dangerous because the software that 0:22:51.370,0:22:55.270 these awkward's are using or even less 0:22:53.530,0:22:57.250 they're they're they're reviewed by 0:22:55.270,0:22:59.740 almost nobody almost nobody is actually 0:22:57.250,0:23:01.960 reviewing the code and actually knows 0:22:59.740,0:23:04.090 all these risks and so you can you know 0:23:01.960,0:23:05.740 yeah you can support like you know your 0:23:04.090,0:23:06.940 wallet Konomi it was more like five 0:23:05.740,0:23:09.370 hundred all coins but none of that 0:23:06.940,0:23:11.950 matters when you can't store anything 0:23:09.370,0:23:13.330 securely on it in the first place 0:23:11.950,0:23:16.120 there's been a number of exchanges that 0:23:13.330,0:23:18.490 have been hacked because they as we know 0:23:16.120,0:23:20.110 even some who they were hacked because 0:23:18.490,0:23:21.610 they implemented an altcoin and they 0:23:20.110,0:23:24.940 didn't review the code and the altcoin 0:23:21.610,0:23:27.570 itself contain an exploit that that was 0:23:24.940,0:23:30.220 used to steal money from the exchange 0:23:27.570,0:23:32.850 among among all the other ways that you 0:23:30.220,0:23:35.530 can lose your money from exchanges but 0:23:32.850,0:23:37.450 yeah there's there's so many possible 0:23:35.530,0:23:39.909 ways that things can go bad in the 0:23:37.450,0:23:42.280 crypto space that again I I don't 0:23:39.909,0:23:44.799 recommend people buy Bitcoin if they're 0:23:42.280,0:23:47.020 not if they don't first learn about how 0:23:44.799,0:23:48.460 to secure it properly so that's usually 0:23:47.020,0:23:49.929 where I start is I usually actually 0:23:48.460,0:23:52.690 tries to I start by actually trying to 0:23:49.929,0:23:54.250 scare them into understanding how what 0:23:52.690,0:23:55.750 they are really storing like what 0:23:54.250,0:23:57.850 they're really holding here is there 0:23:55.750,0:24:00.490 there's there's no there's nobody there 0:23:57.850,0:24:03.100 to bail them out if they're not if they 0:24:00.490,0:24:04.980 make the wrong move so it's an every man 0:24:03.100,0:24:07.750 for himself with all the medicines oh 0:24:04.980,0:24:10.539 yeah that's why sometimes I recommend 0:24:07.750,0:24:13.480 people to buy some kind of out coins to 0:24:10.539,0:24:16.559 learn about how wallets work so if you 0:24:13.480,0:24:19.360 lose like $20 worth of dodge going or 0:24:16.559,0:24:20.980 litecoin oil or Bitcoin cash I don't 0:24:19.360,0:24:23.559 think that's going to matter in the 0:24:20.980,0:24:26.200 grand scheme of things I don't feel like 0:24:23.559,0:24:29.710 you're losing too much and it doesn't 0:24:26.200,0:24:33.610 influence the supply of Bitcoin right 0:24:29.710,0:24:36.610 God more coins to be lost that we have 0:24:33.610,0:24:40.299 gold and we also have smaller projects 0:24:36.610,0:24:41.929 which may just be like stones that you 0:24:40.299,0:24:46.610 throw at people 0:24:41.929,0:24:51.259 and you try to present them as valuable 0:24:46.610,0:24:54.619 to some fools might buy them but if you 0:24:51.259,0:24:56.809 learn what out coins about wallets and 0:24:54.619,0:24:59.919 about exchanges and about security 0:24:56.809,0:25:03.649 that's useful to move to Bitcoin so 0:24:59.919,0:25:06.350 sometimes I think that alt coins that 0:25:03.649,0:25:08.629 are not necessarily malevolent and that 0:25:06.350,0:25:12.440 can be found on any exchange can be 0:25:08.629,0:25:13.999 great gateway drugs to Bitcoin I like 0:25:12.440,0:25:15.230 that you refer to me as gateway drugs 0:25:13.999,0:25:16.879 because that's kind of the way I like to 0:25:15.230,0:25:18.409 think of them as well and that's why I 0:25:16.879,0:25:20.360 don't really mind if people use them 0:25:18.409,0:25:23.210 early on because I think they're gonna 0:25:20.360,0:25:24.499 get burned no matter what and but at 0:25:23.210,0:25:26.690 least they will learn a lot along the 0:25:24.499,0:25:31.940 way and at least hopefully they didn't 0:25:26.690,0:25:34.690 lose any bitcoins yeah sometimes I talk 0:25:31.940,0:25:36.590 to people I mean I have done some 0:25:34.690,0:25:38.809 copywriting for the light going 0:25:36.590,0:25:41.450 Foundation and found some really nice 0:25:38.809,0:25:43.820 people who are enthusiastic and they see 0:25:41.450,0:25:47.240 a lot of value and litecoin which I no 0:25:43.820,0:25:49.909 longer see personally I can understand 0:25:47.240,0:25:52.580 the criticism I can see why they decided 0:25:49.909,0:25:55.669 to implement confidential transactions 0:25:52.580,0:25:57.799 with minimal Wimble as there was really 0:25:55.669,0:26:02.049 nothing special about like going after 0:25:57.799,0:26:04.820 it had that phase of testing Segway and 0:26:02.049,0:26:07.730 doing some tests with the Lightning 0:26:04.820,0:26:12.379 Network which right now has almost no 0:26:07.730,0:26:14.570 development or litecoin so they do stand 0:26:12.379,0:26:17.600 out some way and provide something that 0:26:14.570,0:26:20.149 Bitcoin doesn't already have and it's 0:26:17.600,0:26:23.179 great that they experiment with member 0:26:20.149,0:26:26.210 Wimble as we might get that into Bitcoin 0:26:23.179,0:26:29.509 at some point in the future so it's an 0:26:26.210,0:26:32.659 interesting experiment that whose 0:26:29.509,0:26:36.049 results are very useful for the digital 0:26:32.659,0:26:38.539 gold that we know and love yeah who 0:26:36.049,0:26:40.100 knows you know well first of all we'll 0:26:38.539,0:26:42.200 see if that's even possible for them to 0:26:40.100,0:26:44.419 implement extension blocks for 0:26:42.200,0:26:47.840 nimble Wimble and that's fine if they 0:26:44.419,0:26:49.610 want to experiment with that I I have a 0:26:47.840,0:26:51.619 serious problem with them promoting it 0:26:49.610,0:26:53.629 as something you should use for storing 0:26:51.619,0:26:54.799 money because that's incredibly 0:26:53.629,0:26:55.340 dangerous to be storing money in 0:26:54.799,0:26:56.780 something that's 0:26:55.340,0:26:59.060 gonna be used for something highly 0:26:56.780,0:27:00.950 experimental in an industry that's 0:26:59.060,0:27:04.580 already dangerous to be using he's 0:27:00.950,0:27:07.010 software so you know but again I agree 0:27:04.580,0:27:09.350 that that's that that's exactly where 0:27:07.010,0:27:10.400 that's exactly what if all coins are 0:27:09.350,0:27:12.500 gonna be used for that's what they 0:27:10.400,0:27:14.480 should be used for as we have talked 0:27:12.500,0:27:16.580 before I take no issue with 0:27:14.480,0:27:19.040 experimentation I just have problems 0:27:16.580,0:27:23.180 with marketing apparently with all coins 0:27:19.040,0:27:25.700 oh yeah and sometimes I that side of 0:27:23.180,0:27:27.860 marketing makes people huddled the wrong 0:27:25.700,0:27:30.830 coins and I remember that whole 0:27:27.860,0:27:32.450 situation with grin when it was first 0:27:30.830,0:27:34.490 launched and they thought it's the new 0:27:32.450,0:27:37.790 Bitcoin and they put a lot of bitcoins 0:27:34.490,0:27:40.700 into it on decentralized exchanges and 0:27:37.790,0:27:45.110 they got rekt because the supply makes 0:27:40.700,0:27:48.560 sure that you should send grain as fast 0:27:45.110,0:27:51.260 as possible so it retains the same value 0:27:48.560,0:27:54.350 in Bitcoin or else you're going to get 0:27:51.260,0:27:58.540 rekt and there is no point to huddle it 0:27:54.350,0:28:02.180 as it keeps inflating at a rate that I 0:27:58.540,0:28:04.340 don't think there will ever be any kind 0:28:02.180,0:28:07.700 of massive profits for those who 0:28:04.340,0:28:09.740 invested mm-hmm but it's this cyberpunk 0:28:07.700,0:28:12.290 invention that's meant to be pride by 0:28:09.740,0:28:15.890 than quick it's made for people who 0:28:12.290,0:28:18.980 transact in a private way and don't care 0:28:15.890,0:28:21.440 about huddling it has an infinite supply 0:28:18.980,0:28:24.140 just like Manero and you you're not 0:28:21.440,0:28:26.990 supposed to hold it that's the whole 0:28:24.140,0:28:30.140 point but people just see a speculative 0:28:26.990,0:28:32.990 investments in anything but they forget 0:28:30.140,0:28:35.240 about this aspect of scarcity which is 0:28:32.990,0:28:37.760 an important factor which grants 0:28:35.240,0:28:39.410 anything value yeah 0:28:37.760,0:28:41.270 and you know one thing to keep in mind 0:28:39.410,0:28:43.310 is even something that doesn't even 0:28:41.270,0:28:47.360 something that has a supply cap like the 0:28:43.310,0:28:49.550 beam version of memorable or you know 0:28:47.360,0:28:52.040 ripple or whatever like when they have 0:28:49.550,0:28:54.860 supply caps but that that doesn't really 0:28:52.040,0:28:57.080 matter when you consider that long term 0:28:54.860,0:29:00.290 they're not secure they could for a 0:28:57.080,0:29:01.700 Wilfork there will be new new versions 0:29:00.290,0:29:03.230 there will be new all coins created that 0:29:01.700,0:29:05.750 will be marketed to do exactly what 0:29:03.230,0:29:08.160 those all coins are doing today so this 0:29:05.750,0:29:10.590 idea of digital scarcity 0:29:08.160,0:29:13.650 um you know we have to think about a 0:29:10.590,0:29:15.570 long long term if these projects can 0:29:13.650,0:29:17.280 actually maintain or could actually be 0:29:15.570,0:29:20.460 decentralized which I don't believe they 0:29:17.280,0:29:23.220 can be and in my article about all 0:29:20.460,0:29:27.750 cording scams basically I explained that 0:29:23.220,0:29:30.450 that they can be scarce and and the only 0:29:27.750,0:29:32.280 all coins that are actually 0:29:30.450,0:29:34.650 decentralized are already dead 0:29:32.280,0:29:36.540 because the only successful all coins 0:29:34.650,0:29:38.640 are all coins that have been marketed by 0:29:36.540,0:29:41.220 a marketing team they've had people 0:29:38.640,0:29:42.750 behind them who's expended extraordinary 0:29:41.220,0:29:45.240 amount of resources marketing men in 0:29:42.750,0:29:47.870 order to profit from them and so you 0:29:45.240,0:29:51.090 continue to see today that the primary 0:29:47.870,0:29:55.650 altcoins you know are you know fearian 0:29:51.090,0:29:57.540 ripple litecoin cash you know tron etc 0:29:55.650,0:29:59.700 you look at those ones they are 0:29:57.540,0:30:01.500 centralized because they are marketed by 0:29:59.700,0:30:02.880 centralized companies if they in 0:30:01.500,0:30:04.500 organizations if they weren't being 0:30:02.880,0:30:06.300 marketed they would have already died a 0:30:04.500,0:30:08.130 long time ago which means that they 0:30:06.300,0:30:10.440 can't they can't be decentralized if 0:30:08.130,0:30:12.060 they were decentralized then they would 0:30:10.440,0:30:16.020 have nobody running them and they went 0:30:12.060,0:30:19.350 wither away on this podcast I usually 0:30:16.020,0:30:21.980 like to talk about political topics and 0:30:19.350,0:30:25.290 world politics and how Bitcoin 0:30:21.980,0:30:27.540 influences it and from this marketing 0:30:25.290,0:30:30.390 point of view that you mentioned I can 0:30:27.540,0:30:33.960 understand why the US government hates 0:30:30.390,0:30:36.930 Bitcoin and probably tries as hard as 0:30:33.960,0:30:42.390 they can to promote American companies 0:30:36.930,0:30:44.790 that have projects like XRP that can be 0:30:42.390,0:30:47.730 controlled and can be leveraged and can 0:30:44.790,0:30:51.390 be turned into something that respects 0:30:47.730,0:30:53.820 every kind of regulation and I think Zee 0:30:51.390,0:30:56.550 cash is also from this kind of category 0:30:53.820,0:31:00.930 as they stated that they want to be 0:30:56.550,0:31:03.330 private by not serving criminals which I 0:31:00.930,0:31:08.220 don't think makes any sense how can you 0:31:03.330,0:31:11.910 be private and provide true confidential 0:31:08.220,0:31:14.970 transactions between parties if you are 0:31:11.910,0:31:15.570 able to rule out the bad actors from the 0:31:14.970,0:31:17.670 good ones 0:31:15.570,0:31:19.350 that doesn't make any sense it just 0:31:17.670,0:31:21.809 means that they have some kind of 0:31:19.350,0:31:26.129 tracking involved 0:31:21.809,0:31:29.159 but I sometimes think that Bitcoin even 0:31:26.129,0:31:30.929 though it's an American invention and if 0:31:29.159,0:31:33.590 you look at the white paper you're going 0:31:30.929,0:31:36.869 to see a lot of names of American 0:31:33.590,0:31:40.429 cryptographers who laid the foundations 0:31:36.869,0:31:43.769 for this invention to get released and 0:31:40.429,0:31:46.739 even though it's American in its era and 0:31:43.769,0:31:48.929 and its developments it works against 0:31:46.739,0:31:52.440 the interest of the United States in 0:31:48.929,0:31:54.629 terms of foreign politics as I don't 0:31:52.440,0:31:56.849 think they would ever want then Israel 0:31:54.629,0:31:59.279 are to getting money they wouldn't want 0:31:56.849,0:32:01.710 Palestine to get any money even one 0:31:59.279,0:32:04.169 North Korea to get money and that's why 0:32:01.710,0:32:07.049 they have international embargoes and a 0:32:04.169,0:32:09.570 whole international system that they 0:32:07.049,0:32:13.679 control and leverage however they please 0:32:09.570,0:32:16.710 and they can make their allies not 0:32:13.679,0:32:19.950 engage in to trade with the countries 0:32:16.710,0:32:23.789 that they don't like which in a sense is 0:32:19.950,0:32:26.789 unfair if you ask me we should allow 0:32:23.789,0:32:29.009 markets to be free and we should we 0:32:26.789,0:32:31.169 should not just put people in a 0:32:29.009,0:32:34.440 situation of poverty just because we 0:32:31.169,0:32:36.629 don't like their leaders mm-hmm like it 0:32:34.440,0:32:41.309 happens with Venezuela which actually is 0:32:36.629,0:32:44.849 a very rich country in resources so I 0:32:41.309,0:32:47.940 think these cypherpunks who lay the 0:32:44.849,0:32:50.820 foundation of Bitcoin actually see 0:32:47.940,0:32:53.450 something greater than the vision of 0:32:50.820,0:32:57.239 United States in terms of foreign policy 0:32:53.450,0:33:00.089 but at the same time I sometimes stop 0:32:57.239,0:33:03.299 and wonder are we actually serving the 0:33:00.089,0:33:05.219 Russian foreign interests as Bitcoin 0:33:03.299,0:33:08.339 seems to be very compatible with 0:33:05.219,0:33:12.299 whatever they're planning for the world 0:33:08.339,0:33:15.419 politics for who the Russian you say 0:33:12.299,0:33:18.210 yeah the Russians I mean there was even 0:33:15.419,0:33:20.489 that rumor that Vladimir Putin was 0:33:18.210,0:33:23.849 interested in purchasing some bitcoins 0:33:20.489,0:33:26.669 and Russia is under scrutiny for 0:33:23.849,0:33:30.080 invading Crimea which took place I think 0:33:26.669,0:33:32.879 in 2016 and they have been under very 0:33:30.080,0:33:35.500 strong financial sanctions and they're 0:33:32.879,0:33:38.950 not able to engage in trade for 0:33:35.500,0:33:42.880 several resources with the European 0:33:38.950,0:33:46.000 Union and United States and all of their 0:33:42.880,0:33:49.750 allies and it makes a lot of sense for 0:33:46.000,0:33:52.290 the leader of this big world power to 0:33:49.750,0:33:56.860 try to use a mean which bypasses this 0:33:52.290,0:33:59.290 international banking system so yeah at 0:33:56.860,0:34:02.470 this point in time we can say that 0:33:59.290,0:34:05.470 bitcoin is more favorable to Russia than 0:34:02.470,0:34:07.930 it is to the United States but it's 0:34:05.470,0:34:10.480 neutral so this situation can change at 0:34:07.930,0:34:13.169 any point in time yeah I mean I think 0:34:10.480,0:34:16.270 what's interesting about this is that 0:34:13.169,0:34:18.639 Bitcoin empowers individuals obvious way 0:34:16.270,0:34:22.240 to opt-out but it also empowers any 0:34:18.639,0:34:24.520 entity to opt out on a large scale and I 0:34:22.240,0:34:27.580 think you make an excellent point and I 0:34:24.520,0:34:30.250 definitely agree with you that you know 0:34:27.580,0:34:34.629 financial sanctions on other countries 0:34:30.250,0:34:35.740 as a way of as a way of waging war is is 0:34:34.629,0:34:37.210 incredibly hypocritical 0:34:35.740,0:34:39.730 for a country that claims that free 0:34:37.210,0:34:42.659 markets are what liberal liberal you 0:34:39.730,0:34:47.110 know the greater liberalize societies 0:34:42.659,0:34:49.840 you can't on one hand you know like 0:34:47.110,0:34:51.429 promote democracy and freedom and on the 0:34:49.840,0:34:53.470 other hand you don't allow people to 0:34:51.429,0:34:55.179 trade with each other so you are 0:34:53.470,0:34:59.950 essentially you're essentially punishing 0:34:55.179,0:35:03.070 the population and because you don't 0:34:59.950,0:35:04.840 agree with their leadership and not only 0:35:03.070,0:35:07.330 that their leadership doesn't even have 0:35:04.840,0:35:09.130 a chance to even succeed when they don't 0:35:07.330,0:35:11.740 have access to a financial system so 0:35:09.130,0:35:15.400 it's a catch-22 these many of these 0:35:11.740,0:35:19.240 countries are in they it doesn't matter 0:35:15.400,0:35:22.540 if even if they have good you know good 0:35:19.240,0:35:24.880 intentions they can't even they can't 0:35:22.540,0:35:26.350 even try to prove that because they're 0:35:24.880,0:35:27.790 already locked out of the existing 0:35:26.350,0:35:30.430 financial system so they're already 0:35:27.790,0:35:33.160 being you know they're being punished 0:35:30.430,0:35:35.440 the population of being punished it's 0:35:33.160,0:35:39.400 unfair it's not fair competitive 0:35:35.440,0:35:42.700 practices and it is I mean the financial 0:35:39.400,0:35:45.460 system today is the primary method of of 0:35:42.700,0:35:47.710 warfare in my opinion yeah there is 0:35:45.460,0:35:49.120 physical warfare bombs and missiles and 0:35:47.710,0:35:51.830 troops 0:35:49.120,0:35:54.650 however or the financial warfare is 0:35:51.830,0:35:57.620 almost more debilitating because it's 0:35:54.650,0:36:00.350 incredibly easy to to you know shut down 0:35:57.620,0:36:01.940 an economy and then you know use a bunch 0:36:00.350,0:36:04.190 of propaganda to try to convince that 0:36:01.940,0:36:05.630 population that the reason that their 0:36:04.190,0:36:07.490 country is failing is because of their 0:36:05.630,0:36:09.050 leadership when actuality they simply 0:36:07.490,0:36:11.660 don't have access of the financial 0:36:09.050,0:36:15.470 system and they cannot engage in fair 0:36:11.660,0:36:17.360 trade across borders yeah this is a sort 0:36:15.470,0:36:20.510 of cognitive dissonance that most 0:36:17.360,0:36:22.520 Americans don't even understand most 0:36:20.510,0:36:24.140 people you know I don't interact with 0:36:22.520,0:36:25.610 anybody on the regular basis who cares 0:36:24.140,0:36:28.010 about this things or even understands 0:36:25.610,0:36:30.260 them however I think that people in 0:36:28.010,0:36:32.630 other countries definitely understand 0:36:30.260,0:36:34.850 this problem and they are in a way you 0:36:32.630,0:36:37.670 know it's kind of ironic I think that 0:36:34.850,0:36:39.020 the more you the more that as now that 0:36:37.670,0:36:42.290 bitcoin is available to these countries 0:36:39.020,0:36:44.810 for removing value across borders it's 0:36:42.290,0:36:45.950 sort of like the United States is slowly 0:36:44.810,0:36:48.740 digging its own grave 0:36:45.950,0:36:50.180 because the the more that we repress 0:36:48.740,0:36:52.490 these countries the more we actually 0:36:50.180,0:36:54.170 push them into Bitcoin and into systems 0:36:52.490,0:36:56.450 that they will be able to use to 0:36:54.170,0:37:00.140 transact each other outside of the 0:36:56.450,0:37:01.460 existing monetary system and so control 0:37:00.140,0:37:03.740 of the monetary system there is 0:37:01.460,0:37:06.680 absolutely no doubt that has been the 0:37:03.740,0:37:09.260 primary method of controlling 0:37:06.680,0:37:13.250 nation-states by the West for the last 0:37:09.260,0:37:15.830 hundred years knowing what the United 0:37:13.250,0:37:18.650 States has done in Latin America what 0:37:15.830,0:37:22.400 Pinochet during the Nixon administration 0:37:18.650,0:37:23.830 I think that in some ways may be that 0:37:22.400,0:37:26.720 it's better to impose financial 0:37:23.830,0:37:30.440 sanctions then actually get him off with 0:37:26.720,0:37:33.050 your Secret Service and military but 0:37:30.440,0:37:34.690 then again I don't think there is any 0:37:33.050,0:37:37.610 right or wrong way 0:37:34.690,0:37:39.620 I'm all for peace and peaceful methods 0:37:37.610,0:37:41.570 and you should not kill civilians just 0:37:39.620,0:37:44.660 because you want you don't like 0:37:41.570,0:37:46.790 somebody's government but at the same 0:37:44.660,0:37:50.470 time you can argue that you kill their 0:37:46.790,0:37:50.470 civilians by starving them 0:37:50.520,0:37:56.550 yeah yeah that's you know one of the one 0:37:53.850,0:37:58.110 of the problems really with that also is 0:37:56.550,0:38:01.440 the this organization called the 0:37:58.110,0:38:03.840 International Monetary Fund which is a 0:38:01.440,0:38:07.250 essentially acts as a bank to these 0:38:03.840,0:38:10.380 countries by providing them with loans 0:38:07.250,0:38:12.360 but when they get these loans from the 0:38:10.380,0:38:15.600 International Monetary Fund they come 0:38:12.360,0:38:18.390 with very very strong strings attached 0:38:15.600,0:38:20.880 and so when the Monetary Fund provides 0:38:18.390,0:38:23.460 these cutters with a loan it is 0:38:20.880,0:38:27.140 typically required in the contract that 0:38:23.460,0:38:30.020 these loans have to be used to pay 0:38:27.140,0:38:32.580 American companies or foreign companies 0:38:30.020,0:38:35.700 to do the work and it gives these 0:38:32.580,0:38:37.680 countries access to the resources of 0:38:35.700,0:38:43.020 that country so many many countries in 0:38:37.680,0:38:45.600 Latin America have taken IMF loans which 0:38:43.020,0:38:47.520 are essentially it's impossible for them 0:38:45.600,0:38:51.420 to pay them back without giving up 0:38:47.520,0:38:53.340 sovereignty and so even even when these 0:38:51.420,0:38:56.490 even when we put in place a government 0:38:53.340,0:38:58.410 supposedly that we that is you know 0:38:56.490,0:38:59.640 pro-western government or whatever you 0:38:58.410,0:39:02.070 want to call it even if we put in place 0:38:59.640,0:39:04.710 a pro-western government we can still 0:39:02.070,0:39:07.490 undermine that government by essentially 0:39:04.710,0:39:10.560 you know enslaving the population with a 0:39:07.490,0:39:12.990 huge loan that these countries have to 0:39:10.560,0:39:14.640 pay off but they can't pay off and the 0:39:12.990,0:39:16.760 only way they could pay them off would 0:39:14.640,0:39:20.070 be to keep selling off their resources 0:39:16.760,0:39:21.720 and so over time this creates a lot of 0:39:20.070,0:39:24.630 problems because the populations that 0:39:21.720,0:39:25.859 these countries they these you know they 0:39:24.630,0:39:28.020 don't they don't get access to the 0:39:25.859,0:39:30.840 resources they the resources end up 0:39:28.020,0:39:35.760 getting sold other countries and Luco 0:39:30.840,0:39:37.440 and pushed overseas so you know and in 0:39:35.760,0:39:41.010 the United States definitely I mean if 0:39:37.440,0:39:43.140 you look at Iran back in the 1950s right 0:39:41.010,0:39:47.880 the you know the government then was 0:39:43.140,0:39:49.890 actually very Pro Western prior to the 0:39:47.880,0:39:55.380 Shah when the Shah of Iran was put in 0:39:49.890,0:39:57.090 power prior to 1952 the governments in 0:39:55.380,0:39:59.210 the Middle East were actually very Pro 0:39:57.090,0:40:02.930 Western they were very modern 0:39:59.210,0:40:04.640 and but they were also becoming popular 0:40:02.930,0:40:06.290 and they were also taking control of 0:40:04.640,0:40:09.140 their resources and so it's really a 0:40:06.290,0:40:12.500 battle for resources and that is 0:40:09.140,0:40:14.510 primarily why these countries have taken 0:40:12.500,0:40:15.710 these loans as they need the money in 0:40:14.510,0:40:18.380 order to get the money they have to give 0:40:15.710,0:40:19.760 up their resources and that is you know 0:40:18.380,0:40:21.320 that's really when it comes down to I 0:40:19.760,0:40:23.390 mean why is the United States so 0:40:21.320,0:40:24.650 interested in Venezuela the only reason 0:40:23.390,0:40:26.960 the United States interests in Venezuela 0:40:24.650,0:40:31.880 it's because Venezuela has a lot of oil 0:40:26.960,0:40:33.920 and that's very obvious yeah but I guess 0:40:31.880,0:40:36.890 this is part of the agreement which was 0:40:33.920,0:40:40.010 made after World War two when they 0:40:36.890,0:40:43.150 decided that it's better to have this 0:40:40.010,0:40:46.420 kind of World Order that is based on 0:40:43.150,0:40:50.990 economic cooperation as opposed to 0:40:46.420,0:40:54.080 building armies and trying to deter the 0:40:50.990,0:40:56.330 other or threaten your neighbor with the 0:40:54.080,0:41:00.140 kind of military power that you have and 0:40:56.330,0:41:02.060 I guess we have entrusted the freedom of 0:41:00.140,0:41:05.660 the world in the hands of the United 0:41:02.060,0:41:08.000 States and they even had an antagonist 0:41:05.660,0:41:10.550 on the other side of the world which was 0:41:08.000,0:41:14.060 the tellurian and did not give any kind 0:41:10.550,0:41:16.700 of freedoms mm-hmm now I guess it's 0:41:14.060,0:41:19.760 getting more ambiguous as the United 0:41:16.700,0:41:22.190 States is not as free at ease as it used 0:41:19.760,0:41:26.300 to be but it's not like Russia is any 0:41:22.190,0:41:30.349 better or country which is very close to 0:41:26.300,0:41:33.290 Russia and we like to say that if the 0:41:30.349,0:41:35.690 United States gives up on protecting us 0:41:33.290,0:41:40.070 tomorrow then the Russians can actually 0:41:35.690,0:41:44.450 take over and conquer us in a matter of 0:41:40.070,0:41:46.010 weeks maybe days yeah I mean it's 0:41:44.450,0:41:47.510 definitely it's definitely a problem and 0:41:46.010,0:41:49.130 I'm not trying to say any of these 0:41:47.510,0:41:50.690 countries are innocent by any means or 0:41:49.130,0:41:52.339 in these leaders are innocent but I 0:41:50.690,0:41:54.710 figured the problem of monetary 0:41:52.339,0:41:56.540 sovereignty the problem essentially of 0:41:54.710,0:41:59.330 you know control of a country's money 0:41:56.540,0:42:01.609 supply and central banking it destroys 0:41:59.330,0:42:03.680 countries across the planet and it 0:42:01.609,0:42:06.440 destroys societies across the planet 0:42:03.680,0:42:08.690 because fundamentally people need a way 0:42:06.440,0:42:10.550 to store value and save money and you 0:42:08.690,0:42:12.190 know that's true in any society no 0:42:10.550,0:42:14.920 matter what country you're in 0:42:12.190,0:42:17.049 and yeah i think bitcoin is a threat to 0:42:14.920,0:42:19.660 every single government Western and 0:42:17.049,0:42:22.089 Eastern and whatever you want because it 0:42:19.660,0:42:25.539 does it does take away their power to 0:42:22.089,0:42:27.579 control the individual and to and but 0:42:25.539,0:42:30.670 however you know the Bitcoin can also be 0:42:27.579,0:42:33.130 used for for doing transactions between 0:42:30.670,0:42:35.200 countries there's talk about Iran using 0:42:33.130,0:42:37.089 Bitcoin for making payments to other 0:42:35.200,0:42:39.640 countries you know in the old days they 0:42:37.089,0:42:41.529 used gold but gold is very easy to 0:42:39.640,0:42:43.569 censor and we've already seen that and 0:42:41.529,0:42:45.579 so you know there's problems you need to 0:42:43.569,0:42:47.680 move 50 tons of gold you need to you 0:42:45.579,0:42:49.210 know a billion dollars for the gold if 0:42:47.680,0:42:51.249 you need to move that between countries 0:42:49.210,0:42:53.529 that's incredibly difficult to move that 0:42:51.249,0:42:55.299 much gold and if you have to move it 0:42:53.529,0:42:58.420 with paper then you're just trusting 0:42:55.299,0:42:59.529 that that gold actually exists and that 0:42:58.420,0:43:00.999 they're actually going to redeem that 0:42:59.529,0:43:01.539 gold if it was ever needed to be 0:43:00.999,0:43:03.670 redeemed 0:43:01.539,0:43:05.890 so Bitcoin solves a pretty clear problem 0:43:03.670,0:43:08.019 for central banking there's a lot of 0:43:05.890,0:43:10.720 people in the Bitcoin space that they 0:43:08.019,0:43:13.749 subscribe to the nation' fearing of 0:43:10.720,0:43:15.700 money and I'm you know it there's a lot 0:43:13.749,0:43:18.009 of arguments about what is ideal money 0:43:15.700,0:43:20.559 but you know I think that we actually 0:43:18.009,0:43:21.880 don't know we actually don't know what 0:43:20.559,0:43:24.640 the social and political repercussions 0:43:21.880,0:43:27.609 of Bitcoin are yet you know we don't yet 0:43:24.640,0:43:29.319 actually know I think we will have a 0:43:27.609,0:43:31.319 better idea of that when the first 0:43:29.319,0:43:34.299 country actually starts officially 0:43:31.319,0:43:37.119 hoarding Bitcoin as part of their 0:43:34.299,0:43:38.950 central bank policy that is when the day 0:43:37.119,0:43:43.089 that is when things will really change 0:43:38.950,0:43:44.739 up until that point we don't know if 0:43:43.089,0:43:46.809 countries are already stocked with 0:43:44.739,0:43:48.819 Bitcoin it very it's very possible that 0:43:46.809,0:43:52.029 countries like Russia are already mining 0:43:48.819,0:43:53.799 Bitcoin and we don't know it yet yeah I 0:43:52.029,0:43:56.980 guess that's frightening when you think 0:43:53.799,0:44:00.999 about it as we can have very powerful 0:43:56.980,0:44:03.670 nation states that can have a big chunk 0:44:00.999,0:44:06.579 of coins and they have a lot of leverage 0:44:03.670,0:44:09.910 and they control a lot of bitcoins I 0:44:06.579,0:44:12.849 think we heard news about North Korea 0:44:09.910,0:44:15.660 trying to bypass their international 0:44:12.849,0:44:19.329 trade embargo is by mining Bitcoin and 0:44:15.660,0:44:21.759 then dumping it on exchanges to make 0:44:19.329,0:44:24.040 some dollars but I think at this point 0:44:21.759,0:44:27.430 in time when we speak 0:44:24.040,0:44:30.160 it's the hardest that it ever was to 0:44:27.430,0:44:32.830 actually buy some Bitcoin in a way that 0:44:30.160,0:44:36.610 you don't submit all of your personal 0:44:32.830,0:44:39.630 data yeah and if the the original 0:44:36.610,0:44:43.630 purpose has been defeated in terms of 0:44:39.630,0:44:46.330 Commerce unless you resort to methods 0:44:43.630,0:44:50.230 like coin join with was that be wallet 0:44:46.330,0:44:53.470 or whatever and if you just want to get 0:44:50.230,0:44:57.490 $100 worth of Bitcoin it's very 0:44:53.470,0:45:01.660 difficult to not do it with your ID and 0:44:57.490,0:45:03.760 some kind of kyc environment and it's an 0:45:01.660,0:45:06.040 international trend it's not just in the 0:45:03.760,0:45:09.160 United States all the exchanges are 0:45:06.040,0:45:12.610 required to ask for even more 0:45:09.160,0:45:15.430 information I think last week I read 0:45:12.610,0:45:18.250 something about bitstamp which is a very 0:45:15.430,0:45:21.220 reputed and respected exchange from 0:45:18.250,0:45:24.520 Europe asking way too many questions 0:45:21.220,0:45:26.770 about you and what you are planning to 0:45:24.520,0:45:29.950 do with your Bitcoin and how much you're 0:45:26.770,0:45:32.050 about to invest and that doesn't sing 0:45:29.950,0:45:34.510 well why do they even care they have 0:45:32.050,0:45:37.090 your name they have your personal data 0:45:34.510,0:45:39.630 they know your address why why do they 0:45:37.090,0:45:42.190 care what you do with your money after 0:45:39.630,0:45:47.320 yeah I think this is a huge problem 0:45:42.190,0:45:49.570 KIC AML exchanges they are following the 0:45:47.320,0:45:54.300 laws and they are businesses that make 0:45:49.570,0:45:56.440 money off fees for people trading so 0:45:54.300,0:45:58.390 unfortunately they're going to market to 0:45:56.440,0:46:00.820 newcomers and they're going to pull 0:45:58.390,0:46:02.680 newcomers in who are going to give up 0:46:00.820,0:46:05.950 their personal information in order to 0:46:02.680,0:46:07.270 obtain Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency and 0:46:05.950,0:46:09.310 they don't understand that they've 0:46:07.270,0:46:13.150 already given up some of their freedom 0:46:09.310,0:46:14.650 and privacy that information is will be 0:46:13.150,0:46:18.790 available to the government we have 0:46:14.650,0:46:22.630 already seen coin basis of submit lists 0:46:18.790,0:46:24.010 of users to the International or she's 0:46:22.630,0:46:27.540 made the Internal Revenue Service the 0:46:24.010,0:46:29.710 IRS the United States requested you know 0:46:27.540,0:46:31.150 documentation on who are the traders who 0:46:29.710,0:46:33.220 have traded more than twenty thousand 0:46:31.150,0:46:36.850 dollars with a Bitcoin and the coin base 0:46:33.220,0:46:37.740 gave them a list essentially and so if 0:46:36.850,0:46:41.490 you didn't pay your 0:46:37.740,0:46:43.110 taxes in that year and you use coinbase 0:46:41.490,0:46:46.260 it's very possible that you'll be 0:46:43.110,0:46:48.000 getting contacted by the IRS so on one 0:46:46.260,0:46:49.830 hand I think that there's there's the 0:46:48.000,0:46:52.230 privacy issue 0:46:49.830,0:46:53.670 I mean it's problem because now you have 0:46:52.230,0:46:55.160 to trust that all the people that work 0:46:53.670,0:46:58.110 at this company have access to your data 0:46:55.160,0:47:01.590 they know where you live they know your 0:46:58.110,0:47:02.820 name they can come to your house if you 0:47:01.590,0:47:05.820 know they could tell a friend or they 0:47:02.820,0:47:07.380 could sell your data to somebody else on 0:47:05.820,0:47:09.840 the black market who will then use that 0:47:07.380,0:47:12.570 data in a malicious way there's so many 0:47:09.840,0:47:15.840 problems that's why I'm really excited 0:47:12.570,0:47:20.369 for companies like Aztec oh if you're 0:47:15.840,0:47:22.500 familiar with Aztec o AZ Tec oh but they 0:47:20.369,0:47:25.770 have developed and they've been spending 0:47:22.500,0:47:28.860 a long time on developing a voucher 0:47:25.770,0:47:32.970 redemption service that allows you to 0:47:28.860,0:47:36.210 you know to anybody to essentially to 0:47:32.970,0:47:37.680 redeem Bitcoin just using a code and a 0:47:36.210,0:47:40.110 whole the whole idea for their platform 0:47:37.680,0:47:43.350 is that you don't you can you don't need 0:47:40.110,0:47:45.150 to submit kyc AML documentation now it 0:47:43.350,0:47:48.900 will depend on the local regulations but 0:47:45.150,0:47:51.810 the general idea is that is that you can 0:47:48.900,0:47:53.730 all you need to get that Bitcoin in your 0:47:51.810,0:47:55.410 wallet is you just need that redemption 0:47:53.730,0:47:57.330 code and you need to put an address into 0:47:55.410,0:47:59.070 one field you put the button and you've 0:47:57.330,0:48:01.350 got the Bitcoin so you could give you 0:47:59.070,0:48:02.760 could buy you could buy a voucher for 0:48:01.350,0:48:04.109 somebody else and give them that voucher 0:48:02.760,0:48:06.900 and that other person can redeem is 0:48:04.109,0:48:08.250 about you and so it opens up a lot of 0:48:06.900,0:48:10.350 opportunities for people to provide 0:48:08.250,0:48:12.780 services who are going to be middlemen 0:48:10.350,0:48:15.030 who are willing to give up some of their 0:48:12.780,0:48:17.580 maybe they're in identifying information 0:48:15.030,0:48:20.580 or it's a fee that middleman and then of 0:48:17.580,0:48:21.830 course there's Biscay isq exchange which 0:48:20.580,0:48:23.490 is a decentralized 0:48:21.830,0:48:28.590 application essentially that a 0:48:23.490,0:48:31.859 marketplace that allows people to to buy 0:48:28.590,0:48:33.330 and sell Bitcoin locally in you know 0:48:31.859,0:48:37.770 physically in front of each other and 0:48:33.330,0:48:40.050 and trade as well as in just in various 0:48:37.770,0:48:43.320 ways without having to use a centralized 0:48:40.050,0:48:44.400 exchange that requires kyc AML at just 0:48:43.320,0:48:45.990 just as we were talking earlier about 0:48:44.400,0:48:49.400 private keys being an important problem 0:48:45.990,0:48:50.589 like kyc AML is a another big problem 0:48:49.400,0:48:51.789 actually 0:48:50.589,0:48:54.999 this is one of the more terrifying 0:48:51.789,0:48:58.930 things about the crate right is that he 0:48:54.999,0:49:00.430 seems to be totally okay with he seems 0:48:58.930,0:49:02.049 to totally trust government's and the 0:49:00.430,0:49:04.329 government's and people that work in 0:49:02.049,0:49:06.160 governments have our interests at heart 0:49:04.329,0:49:08.309 and that's that's actually terribly 0:49:06.160,0:49:10.119 frightening especially in a world where 0:49:08.309,0:49:12.279 you know if you have to submit 0:49:10.119,0:49:15.099 information about yourself and you own 0:49:12.279,0:49:17.049 Bitcoin to a service and the people that 0:49:15.099,0:49:19.630 you submitted your your information to 0:49:17.049,0:49:24.309 know that you have Bitcoin that's that's 0:49:19.630,0:49:26.229 a huge risk I agree with you and I also 0:49:24.309,0:49:29.559 don't like the idea that right now on 0:49:26.229,0:49:33.789 local local bitcoins you find a lot of 0:49:29.559,0:49:36.460 people who prefer to use credit cards 0:49:33.789,0:49:39.339 for transfers so instead of meeting in 0:49:36.460,0:49:43.029 person in a public space and exchanging 0:49:39.339,0:49:47.019 a certain amount of Bitcoin for the 0:49:43.029,0:49:51.130 corresponding Mountain cash they resort 0:49:47.019,0:49:53.940 to this easy but ultimately flawed 0:49:51.130,0:50:00.239 method of using credit cards which 0:49:53.940,0:50:00.239 actually enable all the KYC in process 0:50:00.479,0:50:05.829 yeah it's a it's definitely a problem I 0:50:03.729,0:50:07.749 definitely prefer wood you know I think 0:50:05.829,0:50:09.450 that services like Aztecas voucher 0:50:07.749,0:50:12.339 service just make more sense because 0:50:09.450,0:50:14.650 it's much easier so you know it's all 0:50:12.339,0:50:17.049 you need is a little terminal to print a 0:50:14.650,0:50:19.719 receipt and you need to just and then 0:50:17.049,0:50:21.130 you know you take cash from that person 0:50:19.719,0:50:23.799 and then you print them a voucher and 0:50:21.130,0:50:26.950 then they they just redeem that voucher 0:50:23.799,0:50:28.719 so part of its a software technological 0:50:26.950,0:50:32.160 problem but the other part of it is a 0:50:28.719,0:50:34.719 regulatory and a sort of like social 0:50:32.160,0:50:36.549 re-education problem like people have 0:50:34.719,0:50:39.309 become too accustomed to just giving 0:50:36.549,0:50:40.989 away data I mean it's it's so common now 0:50:39.309,0:50:43.119 you go somewhere and you know you're 0:50:40.989,0:50:45.039 like you want to like let's say you want 0:50:43.119,0:50:46.660 to just go like go to the gym and like 0:50:45.039,0:50:48.219 use the gym and they're like well we 0:50:46.660,0:50:50.259 need your address use the gym you're 0:50:48.219,0:50:51.700 like why do you need my address for me 0:50:50.259,0:50:53.109 to use your gym I just want to pay you 0:50:51.700,0:50:55.509 to use the gym why don't I need to give 0:50:53.109,0:50:57.579 you an address everyone has become so 0:50:55.509,0:51:00.009 accustomed to taking personal data from 0:50:57.579,0:51:01.569 people and people are become so 0:51:00.009,0:51:03.759 accustomed to giving personal data to 0:51:01.569,0:51:04.539 people they don't ask questions like why 0:51:03.759,0:51:06.219 does this person 0:51:04.539,0:51:07.749 need my personal data they don't need 0:51:06.219,0:51:11.160 your personal data stop giving your 0:51:07.749,0:51:14.380 personal data away it's a it's a problem 0:51:11.160,0:51:17.709 because if your parade that's hacked 0:51:14.380,0:51:20.380 then they now have access to all your 0:51:17.709,0:51:21.969 information and you just can generally 0:51:20.380,0:51:23.559 giving your information to people that 0:51:21.969,0:51:24.489 you don't know you don't know who they 0:51:23.559,0:51:27.519 are you don't know who works at that 0:51:24.489,0:51:29.559 company anyway it's just reiterating 0:51:27.519,0:51:30.369 that point that they're the problems 0:51:29.559,0:51:32.469 multifaceted 0:51:30.369,0:51:36.699 there's there's many as many problems 0:51:32.469,0:51:40.359 essentially I think Bitcoin without any 0:51:36.699,0:51:43.269 kind of privacy measures is very 0:51:40.359,0:51:45.789 Orwellian in itself and if we get to 0:51:43.269,0:51:48.609 this point where you need to get on a 0:51:45.789,0:51:51.579 regulated exchange and buy your amount 0:51:48.609,0:51:53.289 of bitcoins with your ID and your credit 0:51:51.579,0:51:57.309 card and you have to confirm everything 0:51:53.289,0:51:59.349 and hold on to their wallet and they 0:51:57.309,0:52:02.109 know it at all times what you're doing 0:51:59.349,0:52:04.329 with your funds and I know this nowadays 0:52:02.109,0:52:06.849 that if you want to close your coin base 0:52:04.329,0:52:09.130 account you have to make sure that every 0:52:06.849,0:52:12.009 small amount of every cryptocurrency 0:52:09.130,0:52:14.890 that you're holding is traded to another 0:52:12.009,0:52:18.189 account so you are not able to escape 0:52:14.890,0:52:21.249 this system and if we don't develop any 0:52:18.189,0:52:24.159 kind of more advanced privacy measures 0:52:21.249,0:52:26.679 then it's going to be much more 0:52:24.159,0:52:30.609 Orwellian than the cashless society 0:52:26.679,0:52:34.509 where everybody sends money by credit 0:52:30.609,0:52:35.979 card and everything can be traced yeah 0:52:34.509,0:52:39.039 absolutely and this is a problem on 0:52:35.979,0:52:41.019 multi levels because not only not only 0:52:39.039,0:52:43.839 as a blockchain analysis but you also 0:52:41.019,0:52:46.630 have the the peer-to-peer protocol layer 0:52:43.839,0:52:49.239 of Bitcoin and you have the peer-to-peer 0:52:46.630,0:52:51.249 where you you using your internet you 0:52:49.239,0:52:53.799 know you have to be savvy person you 0:52:51.249,0:52:55.329 have to know how to use EPN you have to 0:52:53.799,0:52:58.779 know how to use tor you have to know how 0:52:55.329,0:53:01.199 to you have to be very careful with what 0:52:58.779,0:53:04.029 you access on what internet connection 0:53:01.199,0:53:05.890 and and when it comes to blockchain 0:53:04.029,0:53:07.569 analysis we do have some really great 0:53:05.890,0:53:10.509 tools that are out now like wasabi 0:53:07.569,0:53:12.969 wallets you have samurai wallet that is 0:53:10.509,0:53:14.349 now coming out with you know they're 0:53:12.969,0:53:17.529 coming out with what's being referred to 0:53:14.349,0:53:18.309 as pay join or PTP which is essentially 0:53:17.529,0:53:21.489 a 0:53:18.309,0:53:23.469 form of coin join that allows you know 0:53:21.489,0:53:26.289 two parties to get together and 0:53:23.469,0:53:29.049 essentially mix their owns together in a 0:53:26.289,0:53:31.449 way that nobody looking at that 0:53:29.049,0:53:34.449 transaction knows that a coin joint took 0:53:31.449,0:53:37.839 place and they also don't know what who 0:53:34.449,0:53:40.180 actually got those outputs so we now 0:53:37.839,0:53:42.039 have technology with Bitcoin that it is 0:53:40.180,0:53:45.729 very possible to have privacy if you 0:53:42.039,0:53:47.499 know what you're doing and for NDA this 0:53:45.729,0:53:48.880 will also be enhanced by something like 0:53:47.499,0:53:51.670 the lighting Network the lighting 0:53:48.880,0:53:55.719 network uses an encrypted protocol 0:53:51.670,0:53:57.789 called the Sphinx protocol and that that 0:53:55.719,0:54:00.969 protocol allows you to route payments 0:53:57.789,0:54:04.839 over an encrypted network in which Jim 0:54:00.969,0:54:08.410 where the the hop the initial hop and 0:54:04.839,0:54:11.709 the final hop do not know the the entire 0:54:08.410,0:54:13.689 route of that payment and also it's not 0:54:11.709,0:54:16.089 broadcast to any blockchain so nobody 0:54:13.689,0:54:18.189 will know so you know when people say 0:54:16.089,0:54:20.019 let's use the blockchain for payments 0:54:18.189,0:54:22.449 you know well number one of us in scale 0:54:20.019,0:54:24.099 number two it's really stupid it's it's 0:54:22.449,0:54:26.859 you're like putting all your information 0:54:24.099,0:54:30.789 out on the public why would you do that 0:54:26.859,0:54:32.650 it's much better to use yeah if you if 0:54:30.789,0:54:34.839 you if you really want privacy in this 0:54:32.650,0:54:36.670 you need to also learn how to handle 0:54:34.839,0:54:39.670 your each key exo's you need to know 0:54:36.670,0:54:42.369 that you need to manage each individual 0:54:39.670,0:54:44.829 transaction output and be careful with 0:54:42.369,0:54:46.479 mixing your outputs together again this 0:54:44.829,0:54:48.670 is something that that samurai wallet 0:54:46.479,0:54:51.099 and electron wallah that other wallets 0:54:48.670,0:54:54.189 have made it very easy for you to manage 0:54:51.099,0:54:56.650 your ETX owes most Bitcoin wallets don't 0:54:54.189,0:54:59.890 have this feature and people regularly 0:54:56.650,0:55:01.420 combine transaction outputs which are 0:54:59.890,0:55:05.079 basically giving away their identity to 0:55:01.420,0:55:08.380 people that know who then know about 0:55:05.079,0:55:11.380 those initial outputs or input so you 0:55:08.380,0:55:13.719 know blockchain analysis it is being 0:55:11.380,0:55:18.999 broken thanks to people like samurai 0:55:13.719,0:55:20.769 wallet wasabi wallet join market these 0:55:18.999,0:55:23.469 technologies are finally getting to the 0:55:20.769,0:55:25.839 point where they are able to help users 0:55:23.469,0:55:27.910 have more privacy it really is a matter 0:55:25.839,0:55:29.560 of time and education and that's also 0:55:27.910,0:55:31.960 another reason why there's no 0:55:29.560,0:55:33.580 two on board everybody because though we 0:55:31.960,0:55:37.240 need more time to build these solutions 0:55:33.580,0:55:39.160 I think it's insane that there's so much 0:55:37.240,0:55:42.400 money in this space and there are so 0:55:39.160,0:55:44.380 many people who have an interest not for 0:55:42.400,0:55:48.820 a Bitcoin not to turn into something 0:55:44.380,0:55:51.910 that can be tracked in terms of every 0:55:48.820,0:55:54.640 small transaction that you can associate 0:55:51.910,0:55:57.370 addresses with people and you can track 0:55:54.640,0:55:59.680 everything but there is such a little 0:55:57.370,0:56:02.980 amount of investments being made for 0:55:59.680,0:56:05.950 development and research for radar 0:56:02.980,0:56:07.720 fungibility and privacy and also it 0:56:05.950,0:56:10.740 blows my mind when I think about it 0:56:07.720,0:56:14.550 that's the toshi meant in terms of 0:56:10.740,0:56:16.990 ensuring privacy for us to create a new 0:56:14.550,0:56:19.630 Bitcoin address for every transaction 0:56:16.990,0:56:24.130 that we make so when we request the new 0:56:19.630,0:56:26.500 payment we generate a new address to 0:56:24.130,0:56:28.330 have the money sent to it I guess I 0:56:26.500,0:56:30.760 might be wrong I haven't read everything 0:56:28.330,0:56:33.370 that Satoshi ever wrote but as far as I 0:56:30.760,0:56:36.390 can recall this was the security model 0:56:33.370,0:56:40.300 that he suggested and if we blindly 0:56:36.390,0:56:43.540 follow satoshis words then we might just 0:56:40.300,0:56:47.110 end up giving up our sovereignty and 0:56:43.540,0:56:48.250 privacy yeah I mean it's again it's a 0:56:47.110,0:56:49.930 system where you need to know what 0:56:48.250,0:56:52.960 you're doing if you're going to that's 0:56:49.930,0:56:54.610 fine to generate it's it's better it's a 0:56:52.960,0:56:56.440 lot better than what ripple and the 0:56:54.610,0:56:57.970 theorem are doing where you have an 0:56:56.440,0:57:02.380 account based system where it's very 0:56:57.970,0:57:06.730 easy to reuse and you're here accounts 0:57:02.380,0:57:10.450 and and but however with with with 0:57:06.730,0:57:12.160 Bitcoin having utx owes it is it does 0:57:10.450,0:57:15.580 have some advantages when it comes down 0:57:12.160,0:57:17.470 to privacy in the sense that you can 0:57:15.580,0:57:20.560 manage your individual transaction 0:57:17.470,0:57:23.020 outputs so if you want to if you wants 0:57:20.560,0:57:24.580 you if you have you know point one big 0:57:23.020,0:57:26.770 one in your wallet as long as you're 0:57:24.580,0:57:28.420 using a wallet that allows you to see 0:57:26.770,0:57:30.670 those transaction outputs you can select 0:57:28.420,0:57:32.050 which ones you want to spend and you can 0:57:30.670,0:57:34.630 spend those individual transaction 0:57:32.050,0:57:36.790 outputs and generate change addresses 0:57:34.630,0:57:38.230 yeah I mean most people don't even 0:57:36.790,0:57:39.430 people have been in the crypt of space 0:57:38.230,0:57:40.990 for a long time they don't have anything 0:57:39.430,0:57:43.030 they don't even know what coin control 0:57:40.990,0:57:45.790 is they don't actually know what aut EXO 0:57:43.030,0:57:47.350 is they don't understand they don't 0:57:45.790,0:57:51.040 understand what they're giving up by 0:57:47.350,0:57:53.980 using something like ripple where where 0:57:51.040,0:57:55.720 you have an account and you have to 0:57:53.980,0:57:58.780 essentially reuse that same account over 0:57:55.720,0:58:00.910 and over you know because you've already 0:57:58.780,0:58:02.470 put a deposit in and you know you can't 0:58:00.910,0:58:04.810 in order you'd have to create a new 0:58:02.470,0:58:06.550 account every time it's in a way so 0:58:04.810,0:58:09.160 tochi's mala was pretty novel at the 0:58:06.550,0:58:10.770 time for what it did it wasn't perfect 0:58:09.160,0:58:13.540 but I think it has one advantage is that 0:58:10.770,0:58:15.760 that least we have a you know with 0:58:13.540,0:58:17.320 Bitcoin being a public blockchain at 0:58:15.760,0:58:19.570 least we can verify that there's no 0:58:17.320,0:58:21.610 there's no coins out there that are 0:58:19.570,0:58:24.010 being created that we can't see that's 0:58:21.610,0:58:25.990 one problem with you know coins that are 0:58:24.010,0:58:28.030 yeah cryptocurrencies that are private 0:58:25.990,0:58:30.190 by default is that we don't actually 0:58:28.030,0:58:33.520 it's very hard to validate that 0:58:30.190,0:58:35.800 no no cryptocurrencies were were created 0:58:33.520,0:58:37.660 that we can't see due to a bug or flaw 0:58:35.800,0:58:40.630 which is a lot of the people have 0:58:37.660,0:58:43.680 criticized see cash because of this and 0:58:40.630,0:58:46.540 also ripple because the first 30,000 0:58:43.680,0:58:50.980 32,000 ledger entries from ripple are 0:58:46.540,0:58:52.720 missing and also just in general main 0:58:50.980,0:58:55.480 you know people is if these are 0:58:52.720,0:58:57.910 cryptographic this is cryptographic 0:58:55.480,0:59:00.850 technology that's it's very young it's 0:58:57.910,0:59:02.170 very new so you know putting a lot of 0:59:00.850,0:59:03.520 money into something like nimble Wimble 0:59:02.170,0:59:05.530 is probably pretty reckless right now 0:59:03.520,0:59:07.390 because you know it's possible that 0:59:05.530,0:59:08.410 could be broken there could be bugs in 0:59:07.390,0:59:10.090 it that we don't know there could be 0:59:08.410,0:59:11.710 inflation bugs you know there was an 0:59:10.090,0:59:14.470 inflation bug in Bitcoin that was 0:59:11.710,0:59:16.120 discovered and that first one was fixed 0:59:14.470,0:59:17.380 and then there was another potential bug 0:59:16.120,0:59:19.180 that could have caused inflation so 0:59:17.380,0:59:21.010 there are bugs even in public block 0:59:19.180,0:59:23.320 chains that could cause they could allow 0:59:21.010,0:59:25.390 people to inflate the supply and if you 0:59:23.320,0:59:27.880 have a private blockchain when I say 0:59:25.390,0:59:31.150 private I mean if launching it has 0:59:27.880,0:59:33.130 privacy by default there that problem 0:59:31.150,0:59:36.490 becomes potentially much more hard to 0:59:33.130,0:59:38.650 track so I like the model I actually 0:59:36.490,0:59:39.850 love the model of Bitcoin as long as you 0:59:38.650,0:59:43.000 know how to use it you know how to use 0:59:39.850,0:59:46.090 your UT exo's and you understand these 0:59:43.000,0:59:47.250 new technologies like coin join and then 0:59:46.090,0:59:49.260 if you understand why 0:59:47.250,0:59:51.120 network you know that you can make 0:59:49.260,0:59:52.640 payments between you and other people 0:59:51.120,0:59:55.320 that aren't broadcast to the blockchain 0:59:52.640,0:59:56.190 I think all these things are really 0:59:55.320,0:59:58.440 great step in the right direction 0:59:56.190,1:00:00.870 there's no silver bullet for this 0:59:58.440,1:00:04.290 problem there are many ways that people 1:00:00.870,1:00:05.430 can give up their privacy and just 1:00:04.290,1:00:07.920 because you're using something like 1:00:05.430,1:00:09.750 Manero doesn't mean that you have 1:00:07.920,1:00:12.120 privacy because it depends on how you 1:00:09.750,1:00:14.430 use that kirkuk currency are you using a 1:00:12.120,1:00:16.050 VPN or using tor where did you obtain 1:00:14.430,1:00:17.730 that manera from did you buy it from an 1:00:16.050,1:00:20.640 exchange did you withdraw to your wallet 1:00:17.730,1:00:21.990 did you there's a lot of questions did 1:00:20.640,1:00:22.890 you send a payment of somebody who now 1:00:21.990,1:00:25.440 has your address 1:00:22.890,1:00:29.430 I need those there's a lot of problems 1:00:25.440,1:00:31.500 right like the that privacy around 1:00:29.430,1:00:35.420 privacy that are not solved by any 1:00:31.500,1:00:37.650 single silver bullet just look at us 1:00:35.420,1:00:39.600 pretending to care so much about the 1:00:37.650,1:00:44.790 technology when it's all about the games 1:00:39.600,1:00:47.160 right Maxim or USD and just investing in 1:00:44.790,1:00:49.770 the first ship coin we find on Finance 1:00:47.160,1:00:53.250 and getting more BTC just and get more 1:00:49.770,1:00:54.600 USD during the next bull run yeah people 1:00:53.250,1:00:56.370 just don't know they don't they don't 1:00:54.600,1:00:58.140 they don't know right like so many 1:00:56.370,1:00:59.490 newcomers just they just have no idea 1:00:58.140,1:01:01.530 what they're buying and they don't 1:00:59.490,1:01:03.240 actually know the game that's being 1:01:01.530,1:01:05.480 played they don't know the problems that 1:01:03.240,1:01:08.010 are being solved and so unfortunately 1:01:05.480,1:01:11.040 people have made a large amount of money 1:01:08.010,1:01:13.170 fortunes many you know by telling people 1:01:11.040,1:01:15.450 to buy all coins and providing them an 1:01:13.170,1:01:17.010 avenue to buy them and not explaining 1:01:15.450,1:01:18.690 the risks and this is something that you 1:01:17.010,1:01:19.770 will see in the Bitcoin community you've 1:01:18.690,1:01:21.510 probably seen the Bitcoin community 1:01:19.770,1:01:24.030 argues with each other a lot like 1:01:21.510,1:01:25.800 there's bitcoiners are more ruthless 1:01:24.030,1:01:28.590 towards their fellow bitcoiners because 1:01:25.800,1:01:30.060 everybody in Bitcoin is incredibly they 1:01:28.590,1:01:31.710 believed strongly in these things and 1:01:30.060,1:01:33.930 they will fight to the death for these 1:01:31.710,1:01:36.060 things you don't find these types of 1:01:33.930,1:01:38.250 sentiments in all courts typically most 1:01:36.060,1:01:40.710 all pointers are going to be people who 1:01:38.250,1:01:42.120 really they're they don't actually 1:01:40.710,1:01:43.590 understand these problems and they 1:01:42.120,1:01:45.050 actually don't care about them a lot of 1:01:43.590,1:01:47.580 them are actually people who might 1:01:45.050,1:01:51.000 prefer they just trust a third party or 1:01:47.580,1:01:52.350 trust with centralized entities so you 1:01:51.000,1:01:54.120 know these are these are things that 1:01:52.350,1:01:56.820 take a long time to understand and be 1:01:54.120,1:01:59.740 educated about you know what I learned 1:01:56.820,1:02:01.660 in time while looking at the 1:01:59.740,1:02:03.610 different Twitter accounts and how 1:02:01.660,1:02:06.310 people react and how people from 1:02:03.610,1:02:08.590 different communities presents 1:02:06.310,1:02:11.619 narratives in order to justify their 1:02:08.590,1:02:15.630 deeds a lot of people don't even care 1:02:11.619,1:02:19.360 about most stuff and they don't really 1:02:15.630,1:02:21.910 care about a technology to the extent 1:02:19.360,1:02:25.360 that it helps the protocol but think 1:02:21.910,1:02:28.619 about short terms or midterm gains in 1:02:25.360,1:02:32.560 terms of maximizing their investments I 1:02:28.619,1:02:34.630 think that's it might be useful in terms 1:02:32.560,1:02:38.200 of bringing more money into the market 1:02:34.630,1:02:40.810 and I think that these people who get 1:02:38.200,1:02:44.110 the blame wouldn't invest in Bitcoin 1:02:40.810,1:02:46.420 anyway so we like to blame coinbase 1:02:44.110,1:02:49.810 sometimes for listening all the bad 1:02:46.420,1:02:51.970 coins and listening XRP and allowing 1:02:49.810,1:02:55.780 people to get the illusion that they are 1:02:51.970,1:02:58.390 investing in the next big asset that's 1:02:55.780,1:03:01.710 going to go to the moon and what's the 1:02:58.390,1:03:05.230 meme about XRP that it's going to read 1:03:01.710,1:03:08.500 379 dollars or something like that yeah 1:03:05.230,1:03:11.500 anyway yeah I think these people would 1:03:08.500,1:03:14.320 be attracted by these projects anyway 1:03:11.500,1:03:17.070 and would never get into Bitcoin and I 1:03:14.320,1:03:19.900 guess this argument gets back to 1:03:17.070,1:03:21.960 deteriorate late drug because sooner or 1:03:19.900,1:03:24.340 later they're going to be disappointed 1:03:21.960,1:03:26.859 and they're going to get rekt they're 1:03:24.340,1:03:28.630 going to lose their investments and if 1:03:26.859,1:03:31.180 they are still interested and they 1:03:28.630,1:03:32.950 acquire some kind of knowledge then they 1:03:31.180,1:03:34.980 might turn their heads to Bitcoin and 1:03:32.950,1:03:38.369 realize that this is the real deal or 1:03:34.980,1:03:41.920 else they're going to just make some 1:03:38.369,1:03:45.130 speculators richer and move on with 1:03:41.920,1:03:47.290 their lives into something else but one 1:03:45.130,1:03:51.550 argument that what your viewer uses all 1:03:47.290,1:03:54.880 the time is that BTC has lost dominance 1:03:51.550,1:03:56.980 on the market and it's all because the 1:03:54.880,1:03:59.710 blocks did not increase to allow 1:03:56.980,1:04:01.180 scalability and the devs were too 1:03:59.710,1:04:03.700 stubborn to allow for new 1:04:01.180,1:04:06.130 implementations to be made and he likes 1:04:03.700,1:04:08.470 to say that Vitalik wanted to build in 1:04:06.130,1:04:10.050 cerium on top of Bitcoin and they did 1:04:08.470,1:04:15.360 not love him because 1:04:10.050,1:04:19.080 was a bad idea and I don't think this is 1:04:15.360,1:04:22.650 I think he finds some causes but they're 1:04:19.080,1:04:25.590 not causal in this sense they are just 1:04:22.650,1:04:28.980 some phenomena that are there they might 1:04:25.590,1:04:31.380 have influenced what we called dominance 1:04:28.980,1:04:33.660 which in itself is a bad metric because 1:04:31.380,1:04:37.380 it's measured in terms of market cap 1:04:33.660,1:04:39.750 which is also bad metric but it doesn't 1:04:37.380,1:04:42.480 measure volume it's about how much money 1:04:39.750,1:04:46.050 is put into that particular coin at that 1:04:42.480,1:04:47.760 exact time yeah market capitalization is 1:04:46.050,1:04:49.500 a really stupid metric in the sense that 1:04:47.760,1:04:51.780 it can easy to game it 1:04:49.500,1:04:53.670 it has market liquidity is far more 1:04:51.780,1:04:56.190 important the buy support is far more 1:04:53.670,1:04:57.050 important but you know you look at 1:04:56.190,1:05:00.900 something like 1:04:57.050,1:05:02.610 etherium for example and I don't think 1:05:00.900,1:05:03.720 vitalic was ever gonna build it on top 1:05:02.610,1:05:06.180 of Bitcoin 1:05:03.720,1:05:08.850 yeah maybe but that didn't you know just 1:05:06.180,1:05:10.020 because there was a lot of people who 1:05:08.850,1:05:11.520 wanted to put a lot of things on Bitcoin 1:05:10.020,1:05:13.620 and I'm sorry that they didn't get to do 1:05:11.520,1:05:17.190 that but you know I don't believe a 1:05:13.620,1:05:18.510 theorem has any value i I don't I when 1:05:17.190,1:05:20.790 you keep looking at the narratives the 1:05:18.510,1:05:22.260 narrative aetherium constantly change in 1:05:20.790,1:05:24.180 the film when it was first launched it 1:05:22.260,1:05:26.100 was so that was being marketed as the 1:05:24.180,1:05:27.510 world computer and then the next thing 1:05:26.100,1:05:28.980 was that it was going to be these you 1:05:27.510,1:05:31.440 know the Dow that decentralized 1:05:28.980,1:05:33.270 autonomous organization and then you 1:05:31.440,1:05:34.710 know then went to DAPs and then DAPs 1:05:33.270,1:05:36.960 turned out to be a total flop because 1:05:34.710,1:05:38.670 they have terrible user experience and 1:05:36.960,1:05:41.850 they're fundamentally unscalable on 1:05:38.670,1:05:43.680 chain and then now the new one is defy 1:05:41.850,1:05:45.690 like you know decentralized finance 1:05:43.680,1:05:47.550 which is another just marketing buzzword 1:05:45.690,1:05:49.590 it's always a new buzzword with these 1:05:47.550,1:05:51.630 people every single time it's not real 1:05:49.590,1:05:53.970 in it it's not real innovation it's not 1:05:51.630,1:05:55.650 real application or use it's just in 1:05:53.970,1:05:56.280 it's just speculation and marketing 1:05:55.650,1:06:00.300 buzzwords 1:05:56.280,1:06:02.490 and you know so many people it's 1:06:00.300,1:06:04.050 actually incredibly irresponsible to be 1:06:02.490,1:06:05.400 selling this technology to anyone as a 1:06:04.050,1:06:06.750 solution for something when it's 1:06:05.400,1:06:08.940 fundamentally insecure in the first 1:06:06.750,1:06:10.190 place you can't build something you 1:06:08.940,1:06:13.170 shouldn't be building on top of 1:06:10.190,1:06:14.760 something like aetherium when name when 1:06:13.170,1:06:16.800 that protocol is gonna continue to hard 1:06:14.760,1:06:19.890 fork and it has tremendous like 1:06:16.800,1:06:21.990 governance problems governance was never 1:06:19.890,1:06:23.430 a problem in Bitcoin the problem was the 1:06:21.990,1:06:26.279 problem was essentially that the 1:06:23.430,1:06:27.960 people were trying to force something to 1:06:26.279,1:06:30.119 be used for something that it naturally 1:06:27.960,1:06:31.770 really doesn't doesn't scale it and 1:06:30.119,1:06:34.500 doesn't scale for a number of reasons 1:06:31.770,1:06:36.569 socially it's unscalable you will have 1:06:34.500,1:06:37.200 disagreements look even when we had big 1:06:36.569,1:06:39.299 blocks 1:06:37.200,1:06:41.190 now there's two corners with big blocks 1:06:39.299,1:06:42.180 why because they disagreed and the 1:06:41.190,1:06:44.549 teacher there's going to be more of 1:06:42.180,1:06:46.920 those Bitcoin Forks off of those there 1:06:44.549,1:06:48.990 eventually there will be be it Bitcoin 1:06:46.920,1:06:50.220 has fears Satoshi vision people who will 1:06:48.990,1:06:52.289 disagree with these other people and 1:06:50.220,1:06:54.510 they will fork their own and they will 1:06:52.289,1:06:55.950 say their coin is the real Bitcoin and 1:06:54.510,1:06:59.250 there will be now they're talking about 1:06:55.950,1:07:00.809 etherium 2.0 I'm sorry what like why 1:06:59.250,1:07:02.010 you're building a new blockchain and 1:07:00.809,1:07:03.420 you're just gonna like court everything 1:07:02.010,1:07:04.650 from the old one to the new one like 1:07:03.420,1:07:06.869 this is the stupidest thing I've ever 1:07:04.650,1:07:09.390 heard this this doesn't make any sense 1:07:06.869,1:07:11.160 like what you you don't find anyone in 1:07:09.390,1:07:13.230 the real business world that actually is 1:07:11.160,1:07:15.299 building real applications for cut for 1:07:13.230,1:07:18.210 consumer use cases out in the wild 1:07:15.299,1:07:20.609 actual businesses that have any use for 1:07:18.210,1:07:22.559 any of any of these things they don't 1:07:20.609,1:07:24.059 have any use for this stuff I know as a 1:07:22.559,1:07:27.150 matter of fact I work in industries that 1:07:24.059,1:07:28.470 have that have been pitched these 1:07:27.150,1:07:29.549 technologies and I can tell you the 1:07:28.470,1:07:31.200 matter of fact that people that are 1:07:29.549,1:07:33.779 marketing them have no idea about three 1:07:31.200,1:07:34.980 Arkadiy they have no idea that problems 1:07:33.779,1:07:38.069 are trying to solve they don't even 1:07:34.980,1:07:39.569 understand the technology so you just 1:07:38.069,1:07:44.240 have it's sort of like a perfect storm 1:07:39.569,1:07:47.880 of ignorance and marketing scammers and 1:07:44.240,1:07:49.200 really a lot of people who frankly they 1:07:47.880,1:07:50.760 don't have anything better to do they 1:07:49.200,1:07:52.349 don't and they're not out there building 1:07:50.760,1:07:54.450 solutions they're not out there doing 1:07:52.349,1:07:55.740 meaningful work they probably there's a 1:07:54.450,1:07:57.930 lot of people in the crypto space that 1:07:55.740,1:07:59.609 are unemployed and they don't you know 1:07:57.930,1:08:01.200 they're they're trying to make money and 1:07:59.609,1:08:03.720 one of the easiest ways to make money is 1:08:01.200,1:08:05.520 to just try to buy an altcoin and try to 1:08:03.720,1:08:09.240 you know speculate that maybe it goes up 1:08:05.520,1:08:12.420 in value so yeah I mean you know these 1:08:09.240,1:08:13.829 use cases that you know that like Roger 1:08:12.420,1:08:15.599 beer is constantly going on about I 1:08:13.829,1:08:18.330 think it's totally false that the market 1:08:15.599,1:08:20.009 dominance dropped because of the scaling 1:08:18.330,1:08:21.480 debate I think that's that's that's a 1:08:20.009,1:08:24.719 that's something that Roger beer will 1:08:21.480,1:08:27.839 use in retrospect because because it's 1:08:24.719,1:08:29.759 because it it sounds like it it sound it 1:08:27.839,1:08:31.109 sells well to newcomers like newbies 1:08:29.759,1:08:33.659 will look at that and they will think oh 1:08:31.109,1:08:34.370 that's why that's why big one has lost 1:08:33.659,1:08:36.590 dominance 1:08:34.370,1:08:38.900 no it didn't was loose dominants because 1:08:36.590,1:08:40.190 of that it's at least lost dominance 1:08:38.900,1:08:41.960 because there's an unlimited number of 1:08:40.190,1:08:43.340 all coins it doesn't it doesn't matter 1:08:41.960,1:08:45.590 dominance measured in a mark 1:08:43.340,1:08:47.380 capitalization is irrelevant when 1:08:45.590,1:08:50.540 there's an infinite number of all points 1:08:47.380,1:08:52.310 so you know the dominate the dominance 1:08:50.540,1:08:54.980 I'm not that interested in the dominance 1:08:52.310,1:08:56.720 to be honest with you I fundamentally 1:08:54.980,1:08:59.000 believe that the people who are looking 1:08:56.720,1:09:00.800 for a store of value and sound and sound 1:08:59.000,1:09:02.930 monetary policy and true 1:09:00.800,1:09:04.430 decentralization and long term low type 1:09:02.930,1:09:06.020 F from store value I believe those 1:09:04.430,1:09:07.820 people are going to move towards Bitcoin 1:09:06.020,1:09:09.380 I don't really care what the other 1:09:07.820,1:09:11.390 people do they are welcome to go 1:09:09.380,1:09:12.730 speculate and experiment but eventually 1:09:11.390,1:09:15.020 they won't come to the realization that 1:09:12.730,1:09:19.250 none of this is useful if you can't 1:09:15.020,1:09:20.840 store value I really agree with you but 1:09:19.250,1:09:23.450 at the same time I want to point out 1:09:20.840,1:09:26.960 that the money that went into et reom 1:09:23.450,1:09:28.220 would have never gone into Bitcoin yeah 1:09:26.960,1:09:30.770 I think you're right probably didn't 1:09:28.220,1:09:32.630 have different philosophies and they are 1:09:30.770,1:09:36.590 attract different types of people and 1:09:32.630,1:09:39.410 each cerium is attractive to the Silicon 1:09:36.590,1:09:41.480 Valley type and the Wall Street guys who 1:09:39.410,1:09:44.150 think that they can tokenize everything 1:09:41.480,1:09:47.600 and put it under blockchain with minimal 1:09:44.150,1:09:49.850 efforts and it also attracts scammers 1:09:47.600,1:09:53.390 and none of these can be done with 1:09:49.850,1:09:56.420 Bitcoin and I guess Bitcoin has a 1:09:53.390,1:09:59.750 stronger immune system there is no way 1:09:56.420,1:10:03.110 that five people can get inside the room 1:09:59.750,1:10:05.510 and decide to delay or network upgrade 1:10:03.110,1:10:07.760 in the case of Bitcoin that there isn't 1:10:05.510,1:10:11.090 even a hard core that's getting planned 1:10:07.760,1:10:13.610 unless we need to have some kind of 1:10:11.090,1:10:15.760 emergency to change the mining algorithm 1:10:13.610,1:10:19.550 which has been I guess the discussion 1:10:15.760,1:10:21.320 since the first few days of Bitcoin when 1:10:19.550,1:10:23.420 they said that the cryptography should 1:10:21.320,1:10:26.240 protect the network and the moment when 1:10:23.420,1:10:30.590 as a change of 56 gets broken they're 1:10:26.240,1:10:33.560 going to change it and also I think the 1:10:30.590,1:10:36.350 developers also have some kind of 1:10:33.560,1:10:39.050 quantum computing proof system for 1:10:36.350,1:10:42.380 wallets or whenever we need to move on 1:10:39.050,1:10:44.510 so that's the inevitable moment when we 1:10:42.380,1:10:45.250 are going to have a hard work which is 1:10:44.510,1:10:48.910 necessary 1:10:45.250,1:10:52.240 is justified it's not like we have had a 1:10:48.910,1:10:54.430 small minority who act as the elites and 1:10:52.240,1:10:57.790 they decide by themselves when the right 1:10:54.430,1:11:02.470 moment is to just some kind of upgrade 1:10:57.790,1:11:06.760 and I know that Vitalik is a smart guy 1:11:02.470,1:11:09.220 and he has a lot of understanding of the 1:11:06.760,1:11:11.230 phenomenon and his brilliant at his age 1:11:09.220,1:11:15.130 that she was able to comprehend all that 1:11:11.230,1:11:17.560 information and build something that we 1:11:15.130,1:11:21.370 may agree that is not useful but it's 1:11:17.560,1:11:23.140 still impressive as an implementation I 1:11:21.370,1:11:25.030 think a lot of people have built a lot 1:11:23.140,1:11:27.880 of interesting systems in the blockchain 1:11:25.030,1:11:30.370 space and they just didn't get the they 1:11:27.880,1:11:33.460 didn't get the level of investment that 1:11:30.370,1:11:35.110 buy talent got so and I think it was 1:11:33.460,1:11:36.820 because account you know there were 1:11:35.110,1:11:40.330 there were many people involved in 1:11:36.820,1:11:42.490 etherium and yeah they were in Silicon 1:11:40.330,1:11:43.780 Valley and they had access to a large 1:11:42.490,1:11:45.400 pool of capital but there's definitely 1:11:43.780,1:11:47.440 there's definitely been a lot of 1:11:45.400,1:11:49.830 projects in the blockchain space that I 1:11:47.440,1:11:51.910 think or whatever that are interesting 1:11:49.830,1:11:53.350 conceptually they just didn't get that 1:11:51.910,1:11:55.060 investment because it was just a matter 1:11:53.350,1:11:56.890 of they didn't know those the right 1:11:55.060,1:11:59.050 people and they weren't in the right 1:11:56.890,1:12:00.850 circles but it's theirs to me there's 1:11:59.050,1:12:03.400 nothing special about vitalic that 1:12:00.850,1:12:06.190 someone else wouldn't have done or 1:12:03.400,1:12:08.440 attempted at Orion complete you know 1:12:06.190,1:12:11.530 blockchain or whatever a virtual machine 1:12:08.440,1:12:12.850 is it's not like that he was the only 1:12:11.530,1:12:15.430 person that could have done that it's 1:12:12.850,1:12:16.990 just that early developers a Bitcoin 1:12:15.430,1:12:18.430 said that was a stupid form this idea 1:12:16.990,1:12:20.530 and so they they didn't pursue it so 1:12:18.430,1:12:21.790 it's finally he pursued it I think 1:12:20.530,1:12:23.740 somebody else would have pursued it as 1:12:21.790,1:12:27.160 well and people aren't pursuing those 1:12:23.740,1:12:29.890 things however you know yeah I mean he's 1:12:27.160,1:12:32.470 a I suppose he's a smart person per se I 1:12:29.890,1:12:34.510 just I just think there's an incredible 1:12:32.470,1:12:35.980 disconnect between people who run 1:12:34.510,1:12:39.850 businesses and understand the business 1:12:35.980,1:12:43.690 world versus you know theoretical ideas 1:12:39.850,1:12:45.190 and applications so no it's probably the 1:12:43.690,1:12:46.780 same problem that a lot like in the 1:12:45.190,1:12:48.880 dot-com boom there was a lot of people 1:12:46.780,1:12:50.050 that were pitching in common internet 1:12:48.880,1:12:54.160 for something that it actually wasn't 1:12:50.050,1:12:56.410 that realistic for at that time but you 1:12:54.160,1:12:57.940 know I I guess I guess I'm fine with the 1:12:56.410,1:12:59.710 experimentation what I have 1:12:57.940,1:13:02.080 problem with is that you have people 1:12:59.710,1:13:04.480 like by telling who they use their 1:13:02.080,1:13:07.150 position to attack Bitcoin and they I 1:13:04.480,1:13:09.520 mean in the last bit bit core Bitcoin 1:13:07.150,1:13:12.070 cash for you know like italic has 1:13:09.520,1:13:15.610 repeatedly taken Roger beers side many 1:13:12.070,1:13:17.560 times he seems to be socially like inept 1:13:15.610,1:13:19.300 or completely ignoring the fact that 1:13:17.560,1:13:21.850 Roger beer has said horrible things 1:13:19.300,1:13:23.590 about Bitcoin developers Roger beer 1:13:21.850,1:13:25.480 accuses people of doing all sorts of 1:13:23.590,1:13:27.699 things that are not true 1:13:25.480,1:13:29.949 Roger grew wise a lot and you don't see 1:13:27.699,1:13:31.600 you don't see my talent calling Roger 1:13:29.949,1:13:33.820 beer out you know you don't see that 1:13:31.600,1:13:36.010 happening so I really questioned the 1:13:33.820,1:13:37.989 ethics and morals of a lot of people in 1:13:36.010,1:13:39.910 that community because I think they use 1:13:37.989,1:13:42.460 Bitcoin when it can when it's convenient 1:13:39.910,1:13:43.960 for them they they pretend to like 1:13:42.460,1:13:46.120 Bitcoin when it's convenient for them 1:13:43.960,1:13:48.840 but then they turn around and they 1:13:46.120,1:13:51.760 attack it when it's convenient for them 1:13:48.840,1:13:54.250 you know I guess Metallica is under a 1:13:51.760,1:13:57.790 lot of scrutiny and despite his 1:13:54.250,1:13:59.770 intelligence he he got into this kind of 1:13:57.790,1:14:02.890 situation where he has a lot of 1:13:59.770,1:14:05.500 responsibility and he has to account to 1:14:02.890,1:14:08.530 VCS who put a lot of money to his 1:14:05.500,1:14:12.280 project so he has to fulfill these 1:14:08.530,1:14:14.650 expectations and deliver a working 1:14:12.280,1:14:17.140 product and then this regard I think a 1:14:14.650,1:14:20.949 Tyrian works more as a business whereas 1:14:17.140,1:14:23.830 bitcoin is protocol that simply 1:14:20.949,1:14:26.590 functions and the fact that it doesn't 1:14:23.830,1:14:28.750 receive any kind of upgrades in a given 1:14:26.590,1:14:31.239 amount of time is not a part but a 1:14:28.750,1:14:34.750 feature and a demonstration of the 1:14:31.239,1:14:37.300 capability and the sustainability of 1:14:34.750,1:14:38.830 this protocol whereas in the case of 1:14:37.300,1:14:42.430 aetherium it's a whole different animal 1:14:38.830,1:14:45.550 they expect to scale they expect to have 1:14:42.430,1:14:48.640 all these kind of pretty useless but 1:14:45.550,1:14:53.710 crazy decentralized applications to be 1:14:48.640,1:14:55.239 running supposedly they're not actually 1:14:53.710,1:14:57.250 decentralized that's part of the problem 1:14:55.239,1:14:58.719 the applications might appear to be 1:14:57.250,1:14:59.920 decentralized but when you actually go 1:14:58.719,1:15:01.449 down and break it down these 1:14:59.920,1:15:04.300 applications are likely using a 1:15:01.449,1:15:06.580 third-party service to actually run the 1:15:04.300,1:15:08.140 application so you know what happens is 1:15:06.580,1:15:10.249 you end up you end up getting so far 1:15:08.140,1:15:11.929 away from from running your own Oh 1:15:10.249,1:15:13.729 we get so far away from the action to 1:15:11.929,1:15:16.780 centralise thing that you really just 1:15:13.729,1:15:19.429 end up with a sort of like semi 1:15:16.780,1:15:20.989 decentralized copy of existing 1:15:19.429,1:15:23.889 applications that doesn't actually work 1:15:20.989,1:15:27.019 very well for what it's trying to do so 1:15:23.889,1:15:28.460 and I think that this is just a part of 1:15:27.019,1:15:30.349 the disconnect you know my talent 1:15:28.460,1:15:32.389 doesn't he doesn't believe in proof of 1:15:30.349,1:15:35.059 work he believes and he wants to switch 1:15:32.389,1:15:36.499 to perfect stake this is there's been a 1:15:35.059,1:15:39.530 there's a number of problems with that 1:15:36.499,1:15:41.869 as we know there's there the problems 1:15:39.530,1:15:44.510 are insurmountable actually there's no 1:15:41.869,1:15:45.679 real alternative to proof of work out 1:15:44.510,1:15:48.260 there 1:15:45.679,1:15:50.449 and and so you know these ideas 1:15:48.260,1:15:53.179 unfortunately they appeal to newcomers 1:15:50.449,1:15:56.119 and they appeal to a lot of newbies 1:15:53.179,1:15:58.010 because they they don't they don't 1:15:56.119,1:15:59.900 understand the security model they don't 1:15:58.010,1:16:02.510 understand the risks they can't think 1:15:59.900,1:16:04.429 long term and a lot of them are very 1:16:02.510,1:16:06.679 susceptible to being sold marketing 1:16:04.429,1:16:09.860 schemes right like these are these are 1:16:06.679,1:16:11.599 marketing schemes that they are sold and 1:16:09.860,1:16:17.719 they don't they don't really take the 1:16:11.599,1:16:20.659 time to analyze the long-term security 1:16:17.719,1:16:23.539 and models of these these networks and 1:16:20.659,1:16:25.280 what is really at stake is is the big 1:16:23.539,1:16:27.199 question like what is what is really 1:16:25.280,1:16:30.519 what do we really you know what's the 1:16:27.199,1:16:33.050 real problems that this is solving and 1:16:30.519,1:16:35.479 you know if you can't if you can't 1:16:33.050,1:16:37.039 ultimately use that system and a fully 1:16:35.479,1:16:39.380 decentralized way and then there's 1:16:37.039,1:16:42.380 really no point doing in the first place 1:16:39.380,1:16:45.019 I think right now Daddy mentioned these 1:16:42.380,1:16:48.860 facts I just came across this thought 1:16:45.019,1:16:52.699 that I think it cerium is essentially a 1:16:48.860,1:16:55.159 very post modernist project where the 1:16:52.699,1:16:58.369 technical truth is less important than 1:16:55.159,1:17:00.619 the narrative and the story that they 1:16:58.369,1:17:03.469 want to build and the beliefs that they 1:17:00.619,1:17:05.300 have as a community they want to believe 1:17:03.469,1:17:07.670 that proof of state works they want to 1:17:05.300,1:17:11.749 believe that their sharding 1:17:07.670,1:17:14.440 implementation is functional they did 1:17:11.749,1:17:17.599 receive a terrible peer review from 1:17:14.440,1:17:21.409 academics and technical specialists who 1:17:17.599,1:17:23.530 reviewed their plans but they still try 1:17:21.409,1:17:28.900 to believe and the 1:17:23.530,1:17:31.990 they present themselves as these masonic 1:17:28.900,1:17:34.060 figures who want to save the protocol 1:17:31.990,1:17:36.280 and bring something better and always 1:17:34.060,1:17:38.700 improve and as we speak right now I 1:17:36.280,1:17:42.670 think they might be having that 1:17:38.700,1:17:45.070 Constantinople hard work so yeah as 1:17:42.670,1:17:47.560 opposed to Bitcoin which is all about 1:17:45.070,1:17:51.010 facts and something that can be verified 1:17:47.560,1:17:53.890 in an objective way it's helium is about 1:17:51.010,1:17:56.350 constructing the narrative that's why we 1:17:53.890,1:17:59.260 ended up having projects like Tron it's 1:17:56.350,1:18:03.510 going to be the serial killer and 1:17:59.260,1:18:06.520 they're all about marketing also EOS and 1:18:03.510,1:18:10.360 everything that came after it they are 1:18:06.520,1:18:12.460 all about the story behind them but less 1:18:10.360,1:18:18.460 about the technology and that's why they 1:18:12.460,1:18:20.200 get pumped by the marketing teams yeah 1:18:18.460,1:18:22.240 yeah absolutely and these people are 1:18:20.200,1:18:23.800 holding a lot of this cryptocurrency and 1:18:22.240,1:18:29.440 so they are heavily invested in making 1:18:23.800,1:18:32.140 this narrative work yeah and in the case 1:18:29.440,1:18:34.900 of Bitcoin it doesn't care about how we 1:18:32.140,1:18:36.300 understand it how we perceive it what do 1:18:34.900,1:18:40.270 we want it to be 1:18:36.300,1:18:44.320 it just works and it's there and we can 1:18:40.270,1:18:47.050 use it and whenever we wake up from this 1:18:44.320,1:18:48.970 idealistic stegler maybe maybe that 1:18:47.050,1:18:52.210 proof of stake is a good idea for the 1:18:48.970,1:18:55.570 environment but if you want to have this 1:18:52.210,1:18:59.740 great goal of having uncensor about 1:18:55.570,1:19:02.980 money that is independent and not 1:18:59.740,1:19:05.800 reliant on any government of the world 1:19:02.980,1:19:08.410 then it's useful to have Bitcoin on a 1:19:05.800,1:19:12.370 proof of work system and maybe that it's 1:19:08.410,1:19:15.430 better than et reom picked up on hashing 1:19:12.370,1:19:18.940 and I'm not sure if these machines that 1:19:15.430,1:19:21.250 currently run in Syria mining will be 1:19:18.940,1:19:25.660 able to switch to Bitcoin in a way that 1:19:21.250,1:19:27.010 is profitable but when they say that 1:19:25.660,1:19:29.950 they're moving to proof of stake 1:19:27.010,1:19:32.400 sometimes I think ok that's good for a 1:19:29.950,1:19:32.400 Bitcoin 1:19:32.639,1:19:36.330 yeah I think it's I think it's great for 1:19:34.380,1:19:38.429 Bitcoin I think they're I think that 1:19:36.330,1:19:39.900 they're going to if they ever pull it 1:19:38.429,1:19:43.380 off they'll realize that they made a 1:19:39.900,1:19:45.300 huge mistake but you know that's neither 1:19:43.380,1:19:47.670 here nor there I actually just I simply 1:19:45.300,1:19:49.650 just don't care about that project in 1:19:47.670,1:19:51.960 the sense that it's irrelevant I have no 1:19:49.650,1:19:54.179 use case for it I've never in six years 1:19:51.960,1:19:56.119 I've never found a use for it so I don't 1:19:54.179,1:19:59.869 use it 1:19:56.119,1:20:03.600 yeah I got interested in it early on I 1:19:59.869,1:20:07.290 read about it it seems so nice and so 1:20:03.600,1:20:09.330 interesting and had all these different 1:20:07.290,1:20:11.310 applications that it's very hard to 1:20:09.330,1:20:13.199 define up to this point I'm still not 1:20:11.310,1:20:15.719 sure what it's supposed to do other than 1:20:13.199,1:20:17.790 smart contracts which I can understand 1:20:15.719,1:20:21.630 but in terms of decentralized 1:20:17.790,1:20:24.270 applications okay what is their value 1:20:21.630,1:20:26.369 proposition and use case how are they 1:20:24.270,1:20:28.920 supposed to skill to actually compete 1:20:26.369,1:20:33.719 with the centralized solutions that we 1:20:28.920,1:20:38.790 already have and why does interim skill 1:20:33.719,1:20:41.760 in a way that makes it redundant to call 1:20:38.790,1:20:44.130 itself decentralize I mean we might as 1:20:41.760,1:20:47.070 well switch to EOS which actually 1:20:44.130,1:20:50.100 supports more what do you call them 1:20:47.070,1:20:54.060 programming languages and it's easy for 1:20:50.100,1:20:56.639 developers to move their projects to the 1:20:54.060,1:20:58.230 protocol and make them so what they call 1:20:56.639,1:21:01.530 decentralized but they have just a few 1:20:58.230,1:21:03.869 blocked reducers who are like the 1:21:01.530,1:21:09.360 curators of the network and they keep on 1:21:03.869,1:21:11.270 validating the transactions yeah yeah I 1:21:09.360,1:21:15.179 mean I think that a very invasive 1:21:11.270,1:21:17.429 competitors because if they're trying to 1:21:15.179,1:21:19.080 compete on that front then they have to 1:21:17.429,1:21:20.699 compete with all those altcoins and 1:21:19.080,1:21:24.060 there's gonna be more outgoing in the 1:21:20.699,1:21:26.250 future so I don't see it as a long term 1:21:24.060,1:21:29.010 store value or viable project for 1:21:26.250,1:21:31.520 personally I think it's it's maybe let a 1:21:29.010,1:21:35.130 lot of people to me down the wrong path 1:21:31.520,1:21:37.260 I don't care if they use it I highly 1:21:35.130,1:21:39.840 recommend companies do not use their 1:21:37.260,1:21:43.349 technology at all it's a huge waste of 1:21:39.840,1:21:44.550 time and I don't know any I don't really 1:21:43.349,1:21:46.200 know of any companies out there that are 1:21:44.550,1:21:48.120 they're using this 1:21:46.200,1:21:50.490 in a way that is actually generating any 1:21:48.120,1:21:52.950 real use like where actual customers are 1:21:50.490,1:21:54.720 actually using it because frankly it 1:21:52.950,1:21:57.500 doesn't really solve the problems that 1:21:54.720,1:22:00.990 people keep claiming it solves so I 1:21:57.500,1:22:02.430 think we have been talking for over an 1:22:00.990,1:22:05.220 hour and I'm not sure how many people 1:22:02.430,1:22:07.740 will be listening up to this point but I 1:22:05.220,1:22:10.110 want to ask you a question which 1:22:07.740,1:22:12.630 concerns your vision on Bitcoin and 1:22:10.110,1:22:14.790 where do you think that we will be 10 1:22:12.630,1:22:18.780 years from now in terms of technology 1:22:14.790,1:22:24.390 and what makes you most excited in terms 1:22:18.780,1:22:25.620 of development for Bitcoin that's yeah 1:22:24.390,1:22:27.600 that's a great question I know you asked 1:22:25.620,1:22:28.560 to just John curb all of that question 1:22:27.600,1:22:36.330 you might have asked all your guests 1:22:28.560,1:22:39.870 that question B I think that store value 1:22:36.330,1:22:41.580 is incredibly important you know the in 1:22:39.870,1:22:44.580 ten years from now I really have no idea 1:22:41.580,1:22:46.350 where bitcoins going to be because where 1:22:44.580,1:22:48.720 it has come in just two years is 1:22:46.350,1:22:51.180 phenomenal and what we're seeing right 1:22:48.720,1:22:54.930 now with new technologies that are 1:22:51.180,1:22:58.020 coming out to enable really didn't able 1:22:54.930,1:22:59.220 like a lighting network I think that the 1:22:58.020,1:23:02.040 Lightning Network offers a whole new 1:22:59.220,1:23:04.620 business model I'm really bullish on 1:23:02.040,1:23:06.390 that in the short term in terms of 1:23:04.620,1:23:08.340 enabling a whole new set of applications 1:23:06.390,1:23:10.620 which we're already seeing developers 1:23:08.340,1:23:13.440 using the light network in ways to do to 1:23:10.620,1:23:15.740 do micro payment applications and I 1:23:13.440,1:23:18.390 think we don't actually fully understand 1:23:15.740,1:23:20.610 what how revolutionary it's gonna be 1:23:18.390,1:23:21.750 until we're a little bit later stages of 1:23:20.610,1:23:24.870 the protocol and so there's more 1:23:21.750,1:23:28.980 features that people need so but ten 1:23:24.870,1:23:31.320 years from now I see I definitely see 1:23:28.980,1:23:34.980 Bitcoin being worth a a lot more money 1:23:31.320,1:23:38.850 I see Bitcoin mining becoming becoming 1:23:34.980,1:23:42.000 incredibly difficult because over time 1:23:38.850,1:23:44.340 the with mining the the efficiencies can 1:23:42.000,1:23:46.290 that are squeezed out of new hardware 1:23:44.340,1:23:50.820 gets slimmer and slimmer so it gets 1:23:46.290,1:23:53.450 harder to produce Asics that they can 1:23:50.820,1:23:57.450 compete with you know they can that have 1:23:53.450,1:23:59.130 large gains in hash rate you know 1:23:57.450,1:23:59.710 essentially we are pushing Moore's law 1:23:59.130,1:24:02.290 to the win 1:23:59.710,1:24:03.970 like mining power mining Asics are 1:24:02.290,1:24:05.950 pushing the limits of computer 1:24:03.970,1:24:09.690 technology so I think it'll be very 1:24:05.950,1:24:12.340 interesting to see as the margins on 1:24:09.690,1:24:15.340 incremental gains can continues to 1:24:12.340,1:24:17.530 diminish I think we will see Bitcoin 1:24:15.340,1:24:20.380 mining will become much more a function 1:24:17.530,1:24:25.030 of power companies and power people who 1:24:20.380,1:24:25.510 have access to very cheap and stranded 1:24:25.030,1:24:29.020 power 1:24:25.510,1:24:32.410 so like hydroelectric power stranded gas 1:24:29.020,1:24:34.750 power you know solar energy so I'm 1:24:32.410,1:24:38.890 really interested to see in ten years 1:24:34.750,1:24:41.470 like sort of how how Bitcoin mining will 1:24:38.890,1:24:44.440 get integrated into power production 1:24:41.470,1:24:46.720 around around the world I think that the 1:24:44.440,1:24:49.330 that you know so yeah so I guess in ten 1:24:46.720,1:24:50.770 years from now I see I do see big going 1:24:49.330,1:24:53.590 mining becoming an integral part of 1:24:50.770,1:24:57.220 power production economics and I also 1:24:53.590,1:24:59.290 see I just see a whole I see the world 1:24:57.220,1:25:01.000 using Bitcoin I see government's using 1:24:59.290,1:25:03.550 Bitcoin ten years from now I see central 1:25:01.000,1:25:05.380 government's hoarding Bitcoin I see 1:25:03.550,1:25:08.200 companies using Bitcoin as a hedge and 1:25:05.380,1:25:09.880 store value I think that we don't I just 1:25:08.200,1:25:11.790 think it's really hard to know but those 1:25:09.880,1:25:14.560 are the things that I see in the future 1:25:11.790,1:25:17.770 well that's a very optimistic of you and 1:25:14.560,1:25:20.110 I guess it'll be also useful right now 1:25:17.770,1:25:22.950 to mention how you can be contacted on 1:25:20.110,1:25:25.660 Twitter and how people can read your 1:25:22.950,1:25:28.870 articles because you clearly have a lot 1:25:25.660,1:25:31.690 of insights and you're infused should be 1:25:28.870,1:25:35.980 read and spread across the enthusiasts 1:25:31.690,1:25:39.280 of Bitcoin yeah thank you 1:25:35.980,1:25:42.820 yeah Mike Twitter is a brick string tech 1:25:39.280,1:25:45.490 right now you know I came across that 1:25:42.820,1:25:49.510 that name it was kind of a meme that was 1:25:45.490,1:25:52.030 passed around because a game show was it 1:25:49.510,1:25:54.670 was using it and I thought that's a 1:25:52.030,1:25:59.350 great that's a great sort of way to sort 1:25:54.670,1:26:01.150 of make fun of the blockchain industry 1:25:59.350,1:26:02.980 or the blockchain narrative you know at 1:26:01.150,1:26:04.960 the end of the day I think that if 1:26:02.980,1:26:06.910 you're gonna be in this space you should 1:26:04.960,1:26:09.970 be doing it because you want to have fun 1:26:06.910,1:26:13.109 and I also think that you know in the 1:26:09.970,1:26:14.820 that also pseudonym and anonymity 1:26:13.109,1:26:17.550 is an important thing I don't 1:26:14.820,1:26:19.260 necessarily see you know a reason to 1:26:17.550,1:26:20.729 like use always use your real name and 1:26:19.260,1:26:22.019 everything and part of being on the 1:26:20.729,1:26:24.419 Internet is sort of having an identity 1:26:22.019,1:26:27.059 as well that isn't necessarily your own 1:26:24.419,1:26:28.889 identity and you can have in many 1:26:27.059,1:26:30.300 different types of identities but yeah I 1:26:28.889,1:26:32.999 would love for people to come read my 1:26:30.300,1:26:36.479 articles if you just go to brick string 1:26:32.999,1:26:39.629 dot tech on your web browser it'll 1:26:36.479,1:26:43.709 redirect to my medium blog and you can 1:26:39.629,1:26:45.769 read my articles there ok mr. brick 1:26:43.709,1:26:47.849 string who wants to remain anonymous 1:26:45.769,1:26:50.809 thank you very much for this interview 1:26:47.849,1:26:53.399 and I'm happy that we got to talk 1:26:50.809,1:26:56.820 thanks it looks like at some points in 1:26:53.399,1:26:59.820 the future we can just have more 1:26:56.820,1:27:02.399 discussions as you know we find out more 1:26:59.820,1:27:04.889 we make new discoveries we have many 1:27:02.399,1:27:08.519 more events and phenomena which take 1:27:04.889,1:27:11.669 place and our views adjust accordingly 1:27:08.519,1:27:13.649 and I hope that I will be having this 1:27:11.669,1:27:16.739 podcast for a long time even though 1:27:13.649,1:27:18.300 financially speaking I'm I'm taking a 1:27:16.739,1:27:20.939 loss with this one I could be making 1:27:18.300,1:27:22.709 money well I'm recording this but it's 1:27:20.939,1:27:25.289 useful at the same time for me to learn 1:27:22.709,1:27:28.709 new stuff new insights but this was a 1:27:25.289,1:27:32.010 long Bona log that probably nobody will 1:27:28.709,1:27:32.999 listen to so thank you very much yeah 1:27:32.010,1:27:34.590 you've done a great job with your 1:27:32.999,1:27:38.159 podcasts thanks so much for having me on 1:27:34.590,1:27:41.070 I tried but just you know if I get any 1:27:38.159,1:27:44.189 donations or this particular episode 1:27:41.070,1:27:48.239 you're going to get 50% of everything in 1:27:44.189,1:27:50.629 BTC and you can use it for anything that 1:27:48.239,1:27:54.119 you like it's part of your sovereignty 1:27:50.629,1:27:59.189 thanks so much fun your time is valuable 1:27:54.119,1:28:01.309 so good bye good bye bye thanks so much 1:27:59.189,1:28:01.309 again 1:28:07.410,1:28:09.470 you