S2 E6: Patrick Miller on Bitcoin, Sovereignty, and Responsibility

In his 6+ years of being in the Bitcoin space, Patrick Miller has been able to observe many of the developments and dynamic shifts that occurred. He witnessed everything from the accidental hard fork to the scaling debates which divided the community between Austrians and Keynesians.

However, Patrick has chosen to use the largest majority of his time on the Bitcoin Takeover Podcast to talk about the fundamentals of Bitcoin and what it is that sets it apart from all the altcoins. His message is really timeless and concerns all market cycles that precede the interview and will come, as it’s unlikely that people will still talk about EOS in 2025 just like we no longer talk about Namecoin in 2019.

Furthermore, Patrick Miller chooses to emphasize on the libertarian principles of responsibility and sovereignty, without which the immersion in Bitcoin becomes troublesome and burdensome. Part of the monetary freedom involves understanding that no trusted third party can make a miraculous save, and this fact should be empowering.

The episode is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. If you would like to donate to the show and help it get gradually better, you have both BTC and dirty fiat options:

• Sats via on-chain Bitcoin transaction: 33THZHAvgiyR1MGdbryyfv7XiGCMrFDR4B
• Sats via Lightning;
• $1 to $20 via Patreon.

50% of on-chain BTC donations will be sent to Patrick Miller as a way of rewarding his time, energy, and resourcefulness. If he refuses the sats, then they will be directed to a charity of his choice.

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hi and welcome to the Bitcoin takeover

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podcast

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I am glad and today my guest is Patrick

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Miller who has been a bitcoiners since

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2013 likes to write articles about

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Bitcoin and he also does Bitcoin meetups

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in his City and hi Patrick

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I guess my first question for you is

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going to be about how you have changed

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your opinion about Bitcoin in the five

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years that you have been involved thanks

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for having me but my opinion about

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Bitcoin is in the last five years has

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changed really

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my understanding of Bitcoin has changed

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a lot I for a long time didn't really

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understand the really important factor

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about Bitcoin which is monetary

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sovereignty personal sovereignty

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personal responsibility low time

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preference so when I first got into the

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Bitcoin space I like many others was

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sort of confused about what it was

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useful for I thought you know was it

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good for payments was it was the

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blockchain some like database that could

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be used for applications and of all

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types and over time I came to realize

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that none of these things matter at all

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if you don't have a secure store of

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value that you can hold for the long

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term

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that can mean cannot be censored that is

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essentially uncomf escapable so I now

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today I have a different point of view

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about Bitcoin than I did five years ago

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I do see Bitcoin as the ultimate hedge

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it I like to refer to it as the people's

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hedge now I guess this change of

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narrative has also helped as before we

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had that hard fork where the Bitcoin

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cash side was created and all the key

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nations who wants it to spend their

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Bitcoin went to a different chain and

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started their own project we didn't have

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much development in this regard

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and now we get to maintain the main

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qualities that we appreciate about

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Bitcoin and develop a second layer

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that's meant to serve that merchants

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adoption purpose that we also hope that

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we can achieve but even if that fails

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it's fine because we retain these

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qualities of emits a not immutability

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uncensor ability and uncomf-- estates

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ability these are human words yeah yeah

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I agree we don't actually know how it's

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all gonna play out so it makes a lot

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more sense to to do optimizations before

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trying to scale up I like the

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terminology first you scale down then

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you scale out and then you scale up and

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that is exactly what I think the Bitcoin

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developers are doing they are optimizing

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for the main chain they are packing as

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much as they can into the smallest

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amount of space which allows for a large

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amount of social scalability it means

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that a lot more people can use the

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blockchain and they can interact

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directly with the blockchain by

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downloading it and they can you know and

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this and this is a way that this is the

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way that we are board millions of

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billions of people over the long term is

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creating solutions that scale socially

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as well as technically yeah and I guess

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when you first got into Bitcoin also the

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figures and the most influential people

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around were different you had Jeff

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garsik and Gavin Andresen

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and I guess Roger Revere was still

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considered to be between Jesus and the

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guy who really helped spread the word

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about the gospel of Satoshi ya the

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people who are doing the real Bitcoin

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work at the time you know Bitcoin a lot

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of the development was discussed on the

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mailing list

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it was various highly technical it was

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being discussed on IRC and so it was

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kind of hidden away a lot of the disk

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there was discussion on Bitcoin talked

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up org

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but you know the the a lot of the people

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that were really technically involved in

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Bitcoin we're not the people that you

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might have seen right away a lot of

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people that you saw right away which you

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came into space back then we're yeah you

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saw them you saw the Roger beers and you

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saw the people that were they were out

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there sort of marketing and they were

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they were promoting Bitcoin in the way

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that at the time that they thought it

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was made sense and maybe at that time it

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did make sense to do that but they

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didn't properly adjust their

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expectations as we learn more

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information so as we learn more

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information about scalability and about

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both technical scalability and social

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scalability you have to adapt and change

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your the way you look at things we also

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now you know just have an intuitive

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sense that it people don't really want

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to spend their bitcoins a lot of people

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want to hold their bitcoins that because

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in order to obtain Bitcoin they have to

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go buy it on an exchange or you know

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it's still difficult to use and it could

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be problematic to use it in many

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countries in the early cases of using

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Bitcoin we saw that it was used

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primarily on the Internet

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to purchase things from the Silk Road so

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it may they made a lot of sense as an

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internet currency in those early days

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but that doesn't necessarily mean that

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it's that useful or practical for in in

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person payments at your local store for

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example one of the discussions that I

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have with my friends sometimes when it

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comes to Bitcoin is about ideology and I

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have a background in political science

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and some of my university colleagues are

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Marxists and find themselves on the left

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side of the debate and they say that

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bitcoin is only for libertarians and on

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our whole capitalists who want to get

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away from the government and I sometimes

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like to think that there's so much more

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to it than this idea of getting away

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from the government and I

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I guess it's a problem of our generation

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first of all as the baby boomers and Gen

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Xers and I'm not sure if you're a

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millennial or you consider yourselves to

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be one but our generation tends to be

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more open to the idea of government

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intervention while our parents were more

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libertarian and they did not want the

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government to get into their affairs and

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they were learning in school to protect

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their liberty and try to stay away as

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much as possible from the government

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that is trying to grow and extend its

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branches to all all that concerns

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society and everything that concerns

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economics yeah I think that well I think

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a lot of people like to attribute

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economic prosperity to like central

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banking or the financial system that

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that was maybe promoted by central banks

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but this doesn't really this is I think

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a myopic way to look at the world and

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actually when we look at technological

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progress we see that technology was the

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primary driver of prosperity and

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innovation not fiat currency I think

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that today's generation of Millennials

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and Gen Xers I'm sort of on the early

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end of the Millennials and like one of

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the first probably Millennials that they

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would call that the they don't know this

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generation my generation and they and

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the younger generation they don't have a

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way to get in they don't have a way to

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store value in a way that's reliable

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they don't have investment opportunities

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like real estate that their parents had

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they don't have bank accounts that

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produce a decent interest rate they

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don't have a stock market that isn't

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manipulated today's all of today's

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markets are clearly bubbles it does not

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really take a genius to look at the

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current prices for property and housing

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and all sorts of assets out there and

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know that you're automatically priced

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pretty much priced out of these things

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in today's generation it will

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take you a lifetime and not only that

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your most you know our generation is

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also incredibly encumbered by student

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loan debt especially the United States

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student a little bit is absolutely

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crippling this generation that we this

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is a generation that will probably never

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own property probably will never be able

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to invest retirement they have very

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limited opportunities for hedging

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themselves against calamity

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so bitcoin is one of the few options

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that today's generation has to protect

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their wealth and that's the way I look

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at it yeah that makes a lot of sense but

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when you think about it I think that our

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parents and our grandparents would be

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much more open to the idea of Bitcoin as

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a currency that is not created by any

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government and there's not under the

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control of any government and no

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government can confiscate it so if you

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present these free qualities to baby

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boomers and Gen Xers then I guess they

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would be more excited and more open to

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this idea whereas digital money is not

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all that exciting and I guess you get

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most of the services with the credit

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card and they have been using credit

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cards I guess since the 60s

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yeah and today's you in today's

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generation they have been MO and they

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have cash app and they have these

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payment apps and China they have WeChat

0:10:55.360,0:10:59.380
and other applications all you pay they

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already have the applications that

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allowed them to transfer money you know

0:11:02.290,0:11:08.680
very quickly yes these systems are like

0:11:05.589,0:11:11.439
centralized however that's irrelevant

0:11:08.680,0:11:14.110
for their purposes you know the vast

0:11:11.439,0:11:16.420
majority of people today can go about

0:11:14.110,0:11:19.779
their daily lives and they can earn

0:11:16.420,0:11:21.670
money and they can go make payments and

0:11:19.779,0:11:24.209
they don't have an issue with that what

0:11:21.670,0:11:27.730
they have an issue with is losing money

0:11:24.209,0:11:29.620
due to monetary manipulation so over

0:11:27.730,0:11:32.350
time their money loses value because of

0:11:29.620,0:11:34.990
inflation I think you're right that the

0:11:32.350,0:11:36.639
baby boomer generation they actually

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experienced as the United States more

0:11:36.639,0:11:40.120
than our generation the current

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generation of Americans my age and

0:11:40.120,0:11:43.330
younger

0:11:40.810,0:11:46.170
are totally insulated and have no idea

0:11:43.330,0:11:48.610
they have very little understanding of

0:11:46.170,0:11:50.500
monetary economics they don't understand

0:11:48.610,0:11:52.029
the problems that have occurred in the

0:11:50.500,0:11:55.540
developing world they don't understand

0:11:52.029,0:11:59.470
what hyperinflation is they don't

0:11:55.540,0:12:01.390
understand these things they also don't

0:11:59.470,0:12:04.029
have any desire to have personal

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responsibility and they definitely don't

0:12:04.029,0:12:08.050
want to protect their own money they

0:12:05.380,0:12:10.120
want something that's secure so

0:12:08.050,0:12:12.880
theoretically secure that it's insured

0:12:10.120,0:12:14.950
by their government and yeah I don't

0:12:12.880,0:12:17.830
actually know necessarily why this is

0:12:14.950,0:12:19.900
the case but I simply think that it's

0:12:17.830,0:12:21.550
probably partially an education problem

0:12:19.900,0:12:23.950
I simply think that people are not

0:12:21.550,0:12:28.240
taught to ask the questions they should

0:12:23.950,0:12:30.610
be asking also I guess it's the fact

0:12:28.240,0:12:33.910
that Bitcoin can look very intimidating

0:12:30.610,0:12:35.890
for newbies when you first come around

0:12:33.910,0:12:39.750
you you discover about this project

0:12:35.890,0:12:42.339
which in which if you ever lose your

0:12:39.750,0:12:43.870
keys you're not going to get access to

0:12:42.339,0:12:45.940
your coins

0:12:43.870,0:12:50.080
unlike the bank account where you can

0:12:45.940,0:12:53.470
just go to the bank office and present

0:12:50.080,0:12:56.530
your personal ID and get the pin number

0:12:53.470,0:12:59.170
to your credit card there is no such

0:12:56.530,0:13:02.620
service in Bitcoin and you have to take

0:12:59.170,0:13:05.710
responsibility for your keys and your

0:13:02.620,0:13:07.960
sovereignty and this concept can be

0:13:05.710,0:13:10.480
intimidating for a lot of people and

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also the lack of a proper understanding

0:13:10.480,0:13:16.960
that I guess nobody really can claim to

0:13:13.810,0:13:20.290
have unless you are one of the og cypher

0:13:16.960,0:13:24.220
punks and have got him involved since

0:13:20.290,0:13:26.770
2009 as I have spoken to Luigi Bart

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Homer was also on this podcast a few

0:13:26.770,0:13:31.390
days ago and I think the first

0:13:29.440,0:13:33.580
conversation that I ever had with him

0:13:31.390,0:13:36.250
was about the fact that he still

0:13:33.580,0:13:38.770
considers himself to be a Bitcoin noob

0:13:36.250,0:13:41.680
in the sense that he just keeps on

0:13:38.770,0:13:45.070
learning whenever he discovers a new

0:13:41.680,0:13:47.770
dimension which enlarges his perspective

0:13:45.070,0:13:50.200
on the matter he realizes that the

0:13:47.770,0:13:52.230
opinions that he had a few months ago or

0:13:50.200,0:13:55.020
a few years ago

0:13:52.230,0:13:57.780
more or less wrong and he just keeps on

0:13:55.020,0:14:01.320
learning about it so this idea that you

0:13:57.780,0:14:03.480
keep on learning about an asset that is

0:14:01.320,0:14:07.650
not issued by any government and cannot

0:14:03.480,0:14:10.320
be censored can be very divisive and

0:14:07.650,0:14:12.600
intimidating it's not for everyone but

0:14:10.320,0:14:15.120
it should be yeah you're absolutely

0:14:12.600,0:14:17.430
right to his point

0:14:15.120,0:14:19.380
he's totally correct that I am NOT an

0:14:17.430,0:14:22.080
expert in Bitcoin and no matter how long

0:14:19.380,0:14:23.700
you've been a Bitcoin I don't think you

0:14:22.080,0:14:25.260
know you can ever say you're an expert

0:14:23.700,0:14:27.240
per se there are a handful of people

0:14:25.260,0:14:29.460
that understand the protocol very very

0:14:27.240,0:14:31.020
well I wouldn't even necessarily say

0:14:29.460,0:14:33.200
they are experts per se and I don't

0:14:31.020,0:14:35.490
think they would claim they're experts

0:14:33.200,0:14:37.110
anytime you ever hear anyone who says

0:14:35.490,0:14:39.500
they're a bit quicker blockchain expert

0:14:37.110,0:14:42.240
that's a huge red flag

0:14:39.500,0:14:43.860
now the other I want to go to this point

0:14:42.240,0:14:45.810
about securing private keys

0:14:43.860,0:14:48.450
I believe that securing private keys is

0:14:45.810,0:14:50.550
the most important issue and it's the

0:14:48.450,0:14:54.210
it's the biggest problem that we face in

0:14:50.550,0:14:56.130
the Bitcoin and cryptocurrency space and

0:14:54.210,0:14:58.320
this is you know this is a problem that

0:14:56.130,0:14:59.850
you will never hear any certainly never

0:14:58.320,0:15:02.010
hear anybody and the all coin space

0:14:59.850,0:15:03.690
talked about but it's a problem that big

0:15:02.010,0:15:06.600
corners are acutely aware of and

0:15:03.690,0:15:08.240
solutions you know some great solutions

0:15:06.600,0:15:11.300
that are coming down the pike are

0:15:08.240,0:15:14.510
partially signed Bitcoin transactions

0:15:11.300,0:15:17.160
music a very advanced multi signature

0:15:14.510,0:15:19.050
schemas so anyone you know a lot of

0:15:17.160,0:15:20.370
people are costing like they they're

0:15:19.050,0:15:22.770
like well when are we gonna get when is

0:15:20.370,0:15:24.750
Vic I'm gonna go mainstream or how do we

0:15:22.770,0:15:26.610
make it help make the user interface so

0:15:24.750,0:15:29.220
easy for everyone to use that you know

0:15:26.610,0:15:31.280
any dummy can use it well I'm sorry to

0:15:29.220,0:15:34.680
tell them but that's never gonna happen

0:15:31.280,0:15:37.290
if you want to use Bitcoin in actually

0:15:34.680,0:15:38.820
using them and saw your value in it you

0:15:37.290,0:15:40.560
absolutely need to understand what

0:15:38.820,0:15:42.600
private keys are you need to understand

0:15:40.560,0:15:45.090
how to secure your keys you need to

0:15:42.600,0:15:47.730
understand that the best ways to do that

0:15:45.090,0:15:49.020
is multi signature you need to store

0:15:47.730,0:15:50.840
your own version up you need to

0:15:49.020,0:15:53.100
basically store the blockchain yourself

0:15:50.840,0:15:54.300
so yeah you know there's a lot of people

0:15:53.100,0:15:56.280
who want this technology to go

0:15:54.300,0:15:58.650
mainstream but you know mainstream to me

0:15:56.280,0:16:00.000
is just like I don't really care about

0:15:58.650,0:16:01.020
those people if they don't if they're

0:16:00.000,0:16:02.370
not interested in personal

0:16:01.020,0:16:03.630
responsibility and they're not willing

0:16:02.370,0:16:05.340
to take the time understand how to

0:16:03.630,0:16:05.810
secure their wealth they definitely

0:16:05.340,0:16:09.500
should

0:16:05.810,0:16:12.710
devine Bitcoin I guess the process was

0:16:09.500,0:16:16.040
also simplified with the seed words that

0:16:12.710,0:16:20.210
we have in several implementations for

0:16:16.040,0:16:22.850
wallets but it's so difficult this idea

0:16:20.210,0:16:25.250
that you have to keep these words on a

0:16:22.850,0:16:27.830
piece of paper that you can only

0:16:25.250,0:16:30.290
multiply up to the extent that it

0:16:27.830,0:16:31.910
doesn't get in the wrong hands and you

0:16:30.290,0:16:34.730
have to make sure that you always have a

0:16:31.910,0:16:37.430
copy or personally I'm not a fan of

0:16:34.730,0:16:40.220
memorizing the words as I think in terms

0:16:37.430,0:16:43.070
of what if somebody follows me home and

0:16:40.220,0:16:44.930
tortures me all right stuff to me and

0:16:43.070,0:16:47.510
they're not going to leave me alone

0:16:44.930,0:16:49.820
until I told them the word so I'm not

0:16:47.510,0:16:54.130
going to memorize them I guess this is

0:16:49.820,0:16:57.320
part of my personal security measures

0:16:54.130,0:17:00.020
but I don't hold them in these pieces of

0:16:57.320,0:17:02.870
paper that you get from a ledger or from

0:17:00.020,0:17:06.350
acosta know it either you know they give

0:17:02.870,0:17:08.870
you these talk pieces of carton on which

0:17:06.350,0:17:12.890
you can write your seed words and that's

0:17:08.870,0:17:15.620
way too predictable yes yes as a Bitcoin

0:17:12.890,0:17:18.860
er comes into your house and sees like a

0:17:15.620,0:17:21.170
small box where you store your ledger

0:17:18.860,0:17:23.870
there are very high chances for you to

0:17:21.170,0:17:26.089
also have some other piece of evidence

0:17:23.870,0:17:29.630
to point out your private key in there

0:17:26.089,0:17:31.520
that's bad security yeah absolutely

0:17:29.630,0:17:35.120
those are you know I think anyone who

0:17:31.520,0:17:37.190
follows Jameson lop knows that yeah

0:17:35.120,0:17:39.860
security and privacy are incredibly

0:17:37.190,0:17:41.240
important these are like operational

0:17:39.860,0:17:43.880
security is incredibly difficult with

0:17:41.240,0:17:46.250
Bitcoin you know what a lot of people

0:17:43.880,0:17:47.840
say well we need to bank the unbanked in

0:17:46.250,0:17:49.100
these other countries okay well that's

0:17:47.840,0:17:50.960
great but if these people don't have a

0:17:49.100,0:17:54.320
secure place to even store a seed phrase

0:17:50.960,0:17:57.650
then it's all pointless anyways they you

0:17:54.320,0:17:59.420
know the services that what Jameson lop

0:17:57.650,0:18:01.010
is working on with Casa huddle is a

0:17:59.420,0:18:03.679
sovereignty as a service which is a

0:18:01.010,0:18:05.390
multi signature service these are

0:18:03.679,0:18:08.480
incredibly important services that are

0:18:05.390,0:18:10.340
being developed you know and but the

0:18:08.480,0:18:12.500
user interface and the applications and

0:18:10.340,0:18:14.929
the security needs to be developed over

0:18:12.500,0:18:17.360
time to make it easier for people to use

0:18:14.929,0:18:18.890
multi skin mature but yeah you're

0:18:17.360,0:18:21.020
absolutely right that you

0:18:18.890,0:18:22.610
just you you store your distorting your

0:18:21.020,0:18:24.650
private key in your house or you know

0:18:22.610,0:18:27.500
you're on some Steve phrase is not

0:18:24.650,0:18:32.510
necessarily the most secure way to do it

0:18:27.500,0:18:33.830
either and so it is a huge challenge and

0:18:32.510,0:18:35.690
I do see this again as I mentioned

0:18:33.830,0:18:38.510
earlier this is one of my primary

0:18:35.690,0:18:41.270
concerns and the primary challenges with

0:18:38.510,0:18:43.460
being in this space and using crypto

0:18:41.270,0:18:46.190
currencies is securely storing your

0:18:43.460,0:18:48.799
private keys and not having to trust

0:18:46.190,0:18:51.679
other people because like you said you

0:18:48.799,0:18:53.390
can make copies of the sea' phrase you

0:18:51.679,0:18:55.100
could split your seed phrase which can

0:18:53.390,0:18:57.919
be very dangerous if you don't know what

0:18:55.100,0:18:59.780
they're doing but handing out a you know

0:18:57.919,0:19:03.799
if you if your seed freezes in two

0:18:59.780,0:19:05.570
locations at once and but you cannot

0:19:03.799,0:19:07.429
physically be in two locations at once

0:19:05.570,0:19:10.280
then you cannot know if you're a seed

0:19:07.429,0:19:11.510
phrase that's been compromised the same

0:19:10.280,0:19:12.860
thing is true if you split your seed

0:19:11.510,0:19:13.610
phrase and you have half here and half

0:19:12.860,0:19:15.350
somewhere else

0:19:13.610,0:19:19.070
you don't know someone's obtained that

0:19:15.350,0:19:23.299
other half with that half they now have

0:19:19.070,0:19:25.309
potentially the ability to to decrypt

0:19:23.299,0:19:26.750
your entire seed phrase if they can you

0:19:25.309,0:19:28.669
know iterate on it enough with the

0:19:26.750,0:19:33.200
proper software they could crack that

0:19:28.669,0:19:35.270
private key so yeah probably

0:19:33.200,0:19:37.309
you know ski security is a huge problem

0:19:35.270,0:19:40.270
fortunately we have a lot of smart

0:19:37.309,0:19:43.669
people working on this cold card wallet

0:19:40.270,0:19:45.860
by Rodolfo Novak in Canada who's also

0:19:43.669,0:19:47.630
the the creator opened on through this

0:19:45.860,0:19:50.210
company coin kite they're working on

0:19:47.630,0:19:55.190
incredibly important products and

0:19:50.210,0:19:56.600
companies like Jameson's lops cost Patil

0:19:55.190,0:19:59.000
and then you have the samurai Wallet

0:19:56.600,0:20:00.860
dojo no but and then you have all these

0:19:59.000,0:20:04.070
these companies that make these hardware

0:20:00.860,0:20:05.630
or these see phrase you know hard met

0:20:04.070,0:20:07.190
metallic ways to store your see phrase

0:20:05.630,0:20:08.990
these are all these are all important

0:20:07.190,0:20:12.110
technologies that allow people to store

0:20:08.990,0:20:13.460
their stuff but again you you really do

0:20:12.110,0:20:15.290
like you mentioned you really do need a

0:20:13.460,0:20:16.610
secure location to store this and

0:20:15.290,0:20:18.770
putting it in your brain is not

0:20:16.610,0:20:22.490
necessarily the safest a secure way to

0:20:18.770,0:20:26.000
do you I think it's also a lot better

0:20:22.490,0:20:27.670
than pulling all of your cat in your

0:20:26.000,0:20:30.670
house

0:20:27.670,0:20:33.400
but I've also heard the people who I'm

0:20:30.670,0:20:36.190
not sure who it was but if I think very

0:20:33.400,0:20:39.010
hard I can remember there was news about

0:20:36.190,0:20:41.860
somebody holding his private keys in a

0:20:39.010,0:20:44.110
bank account but in the kind of bank

0:20:41.860,0:20:48.910
safes that get with your account and you

0:20:44.110,0:20:53.440
get to store your belongings with a key

0:20:48.910,0:20:56.440
that you only only you possess that's

0:20:53.440,0:21:00.010
kind of ironic to use the services of

0:20:56.440,0:21:01.270
banks to store your private keys I think

0:21:00.010,0:21:05.980
it is ironic and I think it's very

0:21:01.270,0:21:09.880
dangerous now of course it's dangerous

0:21:05.980,0:21:13.030
it's a trusted third party then again

0:21:09.880,0:21:18.000
even software that is not open source

0:21:13.030,0:21:20.140
and not consulted by or verified by

0:21:18.000,0:21:22.600
cryptography and computer science

0:21:20.140,0:21:25.210
experts that's dangerous and I think

0:21:22.600,0:21:28.450
very recently we have seen a hack in

0:21:25.210,0:21:32.980
Konomi wallet where they were there was

0:21:28.450,0:21:35.410
this API from Google which helped with

0:21:32.980,0:21:38.380
the autocorrect part for the seat keys

0:21:35.410,0:21:41.740
and the data was sent to a Google server

0:21:38.380,0:21:45.549
about the words that were typed for the

0:21:41.740,0:21:47.860
seat key or C phrase and somebody has

0:21:45.549,0:21:52.080
hacked into the wallet and stole about I

0:21:47.860,0:21:54.760
think it was $60,000 worth of Bitcoin

0:21:52.080,0:21:57.070
which is insane if you think about it

0:21:54.760,0:21:59.950
this there was this small security hole

0:21:57.070,0:22:04.540
which was caused by a trusted third

0:21:59.950,0:22:06.700
party in in this case autocorrect

0:22:04.540,0:22:08.980
services and you had this engineer on

0:22:06.700,0:22:13.059
the other end who got the words and

0:22:08.980,0:22:17.020
figured out maybe that they grant access

0:22:13.059,0:22:19.900
to a wallet right and all he had to do

0:22:17.020,0:22:25.299
was just input these and move the money

0:22:19.900,0:22:26.799
away and that's it yeah yeah you don't

0:22:25.299,0:22:28.390
hear a lot of people talking about this

0:22:26.799,0:22:31.299
out in the wild you know you don't hear

0:22:28.390,0:22:32.410
these stories but they are very real and

0:22:31.299,0:22:34.929
they're in there

0:22:32.410,0:22:36.730
that's dangerous in fact just using

0:22:34.929,0:22:38.740
Bitcoin out in the wild exposes you to

0:22:36.730,0:22:40.690
risks like this and this is one of the

0:22:38.740,0:22:42.730
reasons why I'm very very particular

0:22:40.690,0:22:46.270
about the hardware and software that I

0:22:42.730,0:22:48.130
use is because this isn't a game and all

0:22:46.270,0:22:49.720
these you know this is this is why all

0:22:48.130,0:22:51.370
coins are in Korea or even more

0:22:49.720,0:22:53.530
dangerous because the software that

0:22:51.370,0:22:55.270
these awkward's are using or even less

0:22:53.530,0:22:57.250
they're they're they're reviewed by

0:22:55.270,0:22:59.740
almost nobody almost nobody is actually

0:22:57.250,0:23:01.960
reviewing the code and actually knows

0:22:59.740,0:23:04.090
all these risks and so you can you know

0:23:01.960,0:23:05.740
yeah you can support like you know your

0:23:04.090,0:23:06.940
wallet Konomi it was more like five

0:23:05.740,0:23:09.370
hundred all coins but none of that

0:23:06.940,0:23:11.950
matters when you can't store anything

0:23:09.370,0:23:13.330
securely on it in the first place

0:23:11.950,0:23:16.120
there's been a number of exchanges that

0:23:13.330,0:23:18.490
have been hacked because they as we know

0:23:16.120,0:23:20.110
even some who they were hacked because

0:23:18.490,0:23:21.610
they implemented an altcoin and they

0:23:20.110,0:23:24.940
didn't review the code and the altcoin

0:23:21.610,0:23:27.570
itself contain an exploit that that was

0:23:24.940,0:23:30.220
used to steal money from the exchange

0:23:27.570,0:23:32.850
among among all the other ways that you

0:23:30.220,0:23:35.530
can lose your money from exchanges but

0:23:32.850,0:23:37.450
yeah there's there's so many possible

0:23:35.530,0:23:39.909
ways that things can go bad in the

0:23:37.450,0:23:42.280
crypto space that again I I don't

0:23:39.909,0:23:44.799
recommend people buy Bitcoin if they're

0:23:42.280,0:23:47.020
not if they don't first learn about how

0:23:44.799,0:23:48.460
to secure it properly so that's usually

0:23:47.020,0:23:49.929
where I start is I usually actually

0:23:48.460,0:23:52.690
tries to I start by actually trying to

0:23:49.929,0:23:54.250
scare them into understanding how what

0:23:52.690,0:23:55.750
they are really storing like what

0:23:54.250,0:23:57.850
they're really holding here is there

0:23:55.750,0:24:00.490
there's there's no there's nobody there

0:23:57.850,0:24:03.100
to bail them out if they're not if they

0:24:00.490,0:24:04.980
make the wrong move so it's an every man

0:24:03.100,0:24:07.750
for himself with all the medicines oh

0:24:04.980,0:24:10.539
yeah that's why sometimes I recommend

0:24:07.750,0:24:13.480
people to buy some kind of out coins to

0:24:10.539,0:24:16.559
learn about how wallets work so if you

0:24:13.480,0:24:19.360
lose like $20 worth of dodge going or

0:24:16.559,0:24:20.980
litecoin oil or Bitcoin cash I don't

0:24:19.360,0:24:23.559
think that's going to matter in the

0:24:20.980,0:24:26.200
grand scheme of things I don't feel like

0:24:23.559,0:24:29.710
you're losing too much and it doesn't

0:24:26.200,0:24:33.610
influence the supply of Bitcoin right

0:24:29.710,0:24:36.610
God more coins to be lost that we have

0:24:33.610,0:24:40.299
gold and we also have smaller projects

0:24:36.610,0:24:41.929
which may just be like stones that you

0:24:40.299,0:24:46.610
throw at people

0:24:41.929,0:24:51.259
and you try to present them as valuable

0:24:46.610,0:24:54.619
to some fools might buy them but if you

0:24:51.259,0:24:56.809
learn what out coins about wallets and

0:24:54.619,0:24:59.919
about exchanges and about security

0:24:56.809,0:25:03.649
that's useful to move to Bitcoin so

0:24:59.919,0:25:06.350
sometimes I think that alt coins that

0:25:03.649,0:25:08.629
are not necessarily malevolent and that

0:25:06.350,0:25:12.440
can be found on any exchange can be

0:25:08.629,0:25:13.999
great gateway drugs to Bitcoin I like

0:25:12.440,0:25:15.230
that you refer to me as gateway drugs

0:25:13.999,0:25:16.879
because that's kind of the way I like to

0:25:15.230,0:25:18.409
think of them as well and that's why I

0:25:16.879,0:25:20.360
don't really mind if people use them

0:25:18.409,0:25:23.210
early on because I think they're gonna

0:25:20.360,0:25:24.499
get burned no matter what and but at

0:25:23.210,0:25:26.690
least they will learn a lot along the

0:25:24.499,0:25:31.940
way and at least hopefully they didn't

0:25:26.690,0:25:34.690
lose any bitcoins yeah sometimes I talk

0:25:31.940,0:25:36.590
to people I mean I have done some

0:25:34.690,0:25:38.809
copywriting for the light going

0:25:36.590,0:25:41.450
Foundation and found some really nice

0:25:38.809,0:25:43.820
people who are enthusiastic and they see

0:25:41.450,0:25:47.240
a lot of value and litecoin which I no

0:25:43.820,0:25:49.909
longer see personally I can understand

0:25:47.240,0:25:52.580
the criticism I can see why they decided

0:25:49.909,0:25:55.669
to implement confidential transactions

0:25:52.580,0:25:57.799
with minimal Wimble as there was really

0:25:55.669,0:26:02.049
nothing special about like going after

0:25:57.799,0:26:04.820
it had that phase of testing Segway and

0:26:02.049,0:26:07.730
doing some tests with the Lightning

0:26:04.820,0:26:12.379
Network which right now has almost no

0:26:07.730,0:26:14.570
development or litecoin so they do stand

0:26:12.379,0:26:17.600
out some way and provide something that

0:26:14.570,0:26:20.149
Bitcoin doesn't already have and it's

0:26:17.600,0:26:23.179
great that they experiment with member

0:26:20.149,0:26:26.210
Wimble as we might get that into Bitcoin

0:26:23.179,0:26:29.509
at some point in the future so it's an

0:26:26.210,0:26:32.659
interesting experiment that whose

0:26:29.509,0:26:36.049
results are very useful for the digital

0:26:32.659,0:26:38.539
gold that we know and love yeah who

0:26:36.049,0:26:40.100
knows you know well first of all we'll

0:26:38.539,0:26:42.200
see if that's even possible for them to

0:26:40.100,0:26:44.419
implement extension blocks for

0:26:42.200,0:26:47.840
nimble Wimble and that's fine if they

0:26:44.419,0:26:49.610
want to experiment with that I I have a

0:26:47.840,0:26:51.619
serious problem with them promoting it

0:26:49.610,0:26:53.629
as something you should use for storing

0:26:51.619,0:26:54.799
money because that's incredibly

0:26:53.629,0:26:55.340
dangerous to be storing money in

0:26:54.799,0:26:56.780
something that's

0:26:55.340,0:26:59.060
gonna be used for something highly

0:26:56.780,0:27:00.950
experimental in an industry that's

0:26:59.060,0:27:04.580
already dangerous to be using he's

0:27:00.950,0:27:07.010
software so you know but again I agree

0:27:04.580,0:27:09.350
that that's that that's exactly where

0:27:07.010,0:27:10.400
that's exactly what if all coins are

0:27:09.350,0:27:12.500
gonna be used for that's what they

0:27:10.400,0:27:14.480
should be used for as we have talked

0:27:12.500,0:27:16.580
before I take no issue with

0:27:14.480,0:27:19.040
experimentation I just have problems

0:27:16.580,0:27:23.180
with marketing apparently with all coins

0:27:19.040,0:27:25.700
oh yeah and sometimes I that side of

0:27:23.180,0:27:27.860
marketing makes people huddled the wrong

0:27:25.700,0:27:30.830
coins and I remember that whole

0:27:27.860,0:27:32.450
situation with grin when it was first

0:27:30.830,0:27:34.490
launched and they thought it's the new

0:27:32.450,0:27:37.790
Bitcoin and they put a lot of bitcoins

0:27:34.490,0:27:40.700
into it on decentralized exchanges and

0:27:37.790,0:27:45.110
they got rekt because the supply makes

0:27:40.700,0:27:48.560
sure that you should send grain as fast

0:27:45.110,0:27:51.260
as possible so it retains the same value

0:27:48.560,0:27:54.350
in Bitcoin or else you're going to get

0:27:51.260,0:27:58.540
rekt and there is no point to huddle it

0:27:54.350,0:28:02.180
as it keeps inflating at a rate that I

0:27:58.540,0:28:04.340
don't think there will ever be any kind

0:28:02.180,0:28:07.700
of massive profits for those who

0:28:04.340,0:28:09.740
invested mm-hmm but it's this cyberpunk

0:28:07.700,0:28:12.290
invention that's meant to be pride by

0:28:09.740,0:28:15.890
than quick it's made for people who

0:28:12.290,0:28:18.980
transact in a private way and don't care

0:28:15.890,0:28:21.440
about huddling it has an infinite supply

0:28:18.980,0:28:24.140
just like Manero and you you're not

0:28:21.440,0:28:26.990
supposed to hold it that's the whole

0:28:24.140,0:28:30.140
point but people just see a speculative

0:28:26.990,0:28:32.990
investments in anything but they forget

0:28:30.140,0:28:35.240
about this aspect of scarcity which is

0:28:32.990,0:28:37.760
an important factor which grants

0:28:35.240,0:28:39.410
anything value yeah

0:28:37.760,0:28:41.270
and you know one thing to keep in mind

0:28:39.410,0:28:43.310
is even something that doesn't even

0:28:41.270,0:28:47.360
something that has a supply cap like the

0:28:43.310,0:28:49.550
beam version of memorable or you know

0:28:47.360,0:28:52.040
ripple or whatever like when they have

0:28:49.550,0:28:54.860
supply caps but that that doesn't really

0:28:52.040,0:28:57.080
matter when you consider that long term

0:28:54.860,0:29:00.290
they're not secure they could for a

0:28:57.080,0:29:01.700
Wilfork there will be new new versions

0:29:00.290,0:29:03.230
there will be new all coins created that

0:29:01.700,0:29:05.750
will be marketed to do exactly what

0:29:03.230,0:29:08.160
those all coins are doing today so this

0:29:05.750,0:29:10.590
idea of digital scarcity

0:29:08.160,0:29:13.650
um you know we have to think about a

0:29:10.590,0:29:15.570
long long term if these projects can

0:29:13.650,0:29:17.280
actually maintain or could actually be

0:29:15.570,0:29:20.460
decentralized which I don't believe they

0:29:17.280,0:29:23.220
can be and in my article about all

0:29:20.460,0:29:27.750
cording scams basically I explained that

0:29:23.220,0:29:30.450
that they can be scarce and and the only

0:29:27.750,0:29:32.280
all coins that are actually

0:29:30.450,0:29:34.650
decentralized are already dead

0:29:32.280,0:29:36.540
because the only successful all coins

0:29:34.650,0:29:38.640
are all coins that have been marketed by

0:29:36.540,0:29:41.220
a marketing team they've had people

0:29:38.640,0:29:42.750
behind them who's expended extraordinary

0:29:41.220,0:29:45.240
amount of resources marketing men in

0:29:42.750,0:29:47.870
order to profit from them and so you

0:29:45.240,0:29:51.090
continue to see today that the primary

0:29:47.870,0:29:55.650
altcoins you know are you know fearian

0:29:51.090,0:29:57.540
ripple litecoin cash you know tron etc

0:29:55.650,0:29:59.700
you look at those ones they are

0:29:57.540,0:30:01.500
centralized because they are marketed by

0:29:59.700,0:30:02.880
centralized companies if they in

0:30:01.500,0:30:04.500
organizations if they weren't being

0:30:02.880,0:30:06.300
marketed they would have already died a

0:30:04.500,0:30:08.130
long time ago which means that they

0:30:06.300,0:30:10.440
can't they can't be decentralized if

0:30:08.130,0:30:12.060
they were decentralized then they would

0:30:10.440,0:30:16.020
have nobody running them and they went

0:30:12.060,0:30:19.350
wither away on this podcast I usually

0:30:16.020,0:30:21.980
like to talk about political topics and

0:30:19.350,0:30:25.290
world politics and how Bitcoin

0:30:21.980,0:30:27.540
influences it and from this marketing

0:30:25.290,0:30:30.390
point of view that you mentioned I can

0:30:27.540,0:30:33.960
understand why the US government hates

0:30:30.390,0:30:36.930
Bitcoin and probably tries as hard as

0:30:33.960,0:30:42.390
they can to promote American companies

0:30:36.930,0:30:44.790
that have projects like XRP that can be

0:30:42.390,0:30:47.730
controlled and can be leveraged and can

0:30:44.790,0:30:51.390
be turned into something that respects

0:30:47.730,0:30:53.820
every kind of regulation and I think Zee

0:30:51.390,0:30:56.550
cash is also from this kind of category

0:30:53.820,0:31:00.930
as they stated that they want to be

0:30:56.550,0:31:03.330
private by not serving criminals which I

0:31:00.930,0:31:08.220
don't think makes any sense how can you

0:31:03.330,0:31:11.910
be private and provide true confidential

0:31:08.220,0:31:14.970
transactions between parties if you are

0:31:11.910,0:31:15.570
able to rule out the bad actors from the

0:31:14.970,0:31:17.670
good ones

0:31:15.570,0:31:19.350
that doesn't make any sense it just

0:31:17.670,0:31:21.809
means that they have some kind of

0:31:19.350,0:31:26.129
tracking involved

0:31:21.809,0:31:29.159
but I sometimes think that Bitcoin even

0:31:26.129,0:31:30.929
though it's an American invention and if

0:31:29.159,0:31:33.590
you look at the white paper you're going

0:31:30.929,0:31:36.869
to see a lot of names of American

0:31:33.590,0:31:40.429
cryptographers who laid the foundations

0:31:36.869,0:31:43.769
for this invention to get released and

0:31:40.429,0:31:46.739
even though it's American in its era and

0:31:43.769,0:31:48.929
and its developments it works against

0:31:46.739,0:31:52.440
the interest of the United States in

0:31:48.929,0:31:54.629
terms of foreign politics as I don't

0:31:52.440,0:31:56.849
think they would ever want then Israel

0:31:54.629,0:31:59.279
are to getting money they wouldn't want

0:31:56.849,0:32:01.710
Palestine to get any money even one

0:31:59.279,0:32:04.169
North Korea to get money and that's why

0:32:01.710,0:32:07.049
they have international embargoes and a

0:32:04.169,0:32:09.570
whole international system that they

0:32:07.049,0:32:13.679
control and leverage however they please

0:32:09.570,0:32:16.710
and they can make their allies not

0:32:13.679,0:32:19.950
engage in to trade with the countries

0:32:16.710,0:32:23.789
that they don't like which in a sense is

0:32:19.950,0:32:26.789
unfair if you ask me we should allow

0:32:23.789,0:32:29.009
markets to be free and we should we

0:32:26.789,0:32:31.169
should not just put people in a

0:32:29.009,0:32:34.440
situation of poverty just because we

0:32:31.169,0:32:36.629
don't like their leaders mm-hmm like it

0:32:34.440,0:32:41.309
happens with Venezuela which actually is

0:32:36.629,0:32:44.849
a very rich country in resources so I

0:32:41.309,0:32:47.940
think these cypherpunks who lay the

0:32:44.849,0:32:50.820
foundation of Bitcoin actually see

0:32:47.940,0:32:53.450
something greater than the vision of

0:32:50.820,0:32:57.239
United States in terms of foreign policy

0:32:53.450,0:33:00.089
but at the same time I sometimes stop

0:32:57.239,0:33:03.299
and wonder are we actually serving the

0:33:00.089,0:33:05.219
Russian foreign interests as Bitcoin

0:33:03.299,0:33:08.339
seems to be very compatible with

0:33:05.219,0:33:12.299
whatever they're planning for the world

0:33:08.339,0:33:15.419
politics for who the Russian you say

0:33:12.299,0:33:18.210
yeah the Russians I mean there was even

0:33:15.419,0:33:20.489
that rumor that Vladimir Putin was

0:33:18.210,0:33:23.849
interested in purchasing some bitcoins

0:33:20.489,0:33:26.669
and Russia is under scrutiny for

0:33:23.849,0:33:30.080
invading Crimea which took place I think

0:33:26.669,0:33:32.879
in 2016 and they have been under very

0:33:30.080,0:33:35.500
strong financial sanctions and they're

0:33:32.879,0:33:38.950
not able to engage in trade for

0:33:35.500,0:33:42.880
several resources with the European

0:33:38.950,0:33:46.000
Union and United States and all of their

0:33:42.880,0:33:49.750
allies and it makes a lot of sense for

0:33:46.000,0:33:52.290
the leader of this big world power to

0:33:49.750,0:33:56.860
try to use a mean which bypasses this

0:33:52.290,0:33:59.290
international banking system so yeah at

0:33:56.860,0:34:02.470
this point in time we can say that

0:33:59.290,0:34:05.470
bitcoin is more favorable to Russia than

0:34:02.470,0:34:07.930
it is to the United States but it's

0:34:05.470,0:34:10.480
neutral so this situation can change at

0:34:07.930,0:34:13.169
any point in time yeah I mean I think

0:34:10.480,0:34:16.270
what's interesting about this is that

0:34:13.169,0:34:18.639
Bitcoin empowers individuals obvious way

0:34:16.270,0:34:22.240
to opt-out but it also empowers any

0:34:18.639,0:34:24.520
entity to opt out on a large scale and I

0:34:22.240,0:34:27.580
think you make an excellent point and I

0:34:24.520,0:34:30.250
definitely agree with you that you know

0:34:27.580,0:34:34.629
financial sanctions on other countries

0:34:30.250,0:34:35.740
as a way of as a way of waging war is is

0:34:34.629,0:34:37.210
incredibly hypocritical

0:34:35.740,0:34:39.730
for a country that claims that free

0:34:37.210,0:34:42.659
markets are what liberal liberal you

0:34:39.730,0:34:47.110
know the greater liberalize societies

0:34:42.659,0:34:49.840
you can't on one hand you know like

0:34:47.110,0:34:51.429
promote democracy and freedom and on the

0:34:49.840,0:34:53.470
other hand you don't allow people to

0:34:51.429,0:34:55.179
trade with each other so you are

0:34:53.470,0:34:59.950
essentially you're essentially punishing

0:34:55.179,0:35:03.070
the population and because you don't

0:34:59.950,0:35:04.840
agree with their leadership and not only

0:35:03.070,0:35:07.330
that their leadership doesn't even have

0:35:04.840,0:35:09.130
a chance to even succeed when they don't

0:35:07.330,0:35:11.740
have access to a financial system so

0:35:09.130,0:35:15.400
it's a catch-22 these many of these

0:35:11.740,0:35:19.240
countries are in they it doesn't matter

0:35:15.400,0:35:22.540
if even if they have good you know good

0:35:19.240,0:35:24.880
intentions they can't even they can't

0:35:22.540,0:35:26.350
even try to prove that because they're

0:35:24.880,0:35:27.790
already locked out of the existing

0:35:26.350,0:35:30.430
financial system so they're already

0:35:27.790,0:35:33.160
being you know they're being punished

0:35:30.430,0:35:35.440
the population of being punished it's

0:35:33.160,0:35:39.400
unfair it's not fair competitive

0:35:35.440,0:35:42.700
practices and it is I mean the financial

0:35:39.400,0:35:45.460
system today is the primary method of of

0:35:42.700,0:35:47.710
warfare in my opinion yeah there is

0:35:45.460,0:35:49.120
physical warfare bombs and missiles and

0:35:47.710,0:35:51.830
troops

0:35:49.120,0:35:54.650
however or the financial warfare is

0:35:51.830,0:35:57.620
almost more debilitating because it's

0:35:54.650,0:36:00.350
incredibly easy to to you know shut down

0:35:57.620,0:36:01.940
an economy and then you know use a bunch

0:36:00.350,0:36:04.190
of propaganda to try to convince that

0:36:01.940,0:36:05.630
population that the reason that their

0:36:04.190,0:36:07.490
country is failing is because of their

0:36:05.630,0:36:09.050
leadership when actuality they simply

0:36:07.490,0:36:11.660
don't have access of the financial

0:36:09.050,0:36:15.470
system and they cannot engage in fair

0:36:11.660,0:36:17.360
trade across borders yeah this is a sort

0:36:15.470,0:36:20.510
of cognitive dissonance that most

0:36:17.360,0:36:22.520
Americans don't even understand most

0:36:20.510,0:36:24.140
people you know I don't interact with

0:36:22.520,0:36:25.610
anybody on the regular basis who cares

0:36:24.140,0:36:28.010
about this things or even understands

0:36:25.610,0:36:30.260
them however I think that people in

0:36:28.010,0:36:32.630
other countries definitely understand

0:36:30.260,0:36:34.850
this problem and they are in a way you

0:36:32.630,0:36:37.670
know it's kind of ironic I think that

0:36:34.850,0:36:39.020
the more you the more that as now that

0:36:37.670,0:36:42.290
bitcoin is available to these countries

0:36:39.020,0:36:44.810
for removing value across borders it's

0:36:42.290,0:36:45.950
sort of like the United States is slowly

0:36:44.810,0:36:48.740
digging its own grave

0:36:45.950,0:36:50.180
because the the more that we repress

0:36:48.740,0:36:52.490
these countries the more we actually

0:36:50.180,0:36:54.170
push them into Bitcoin and into systems

0:36:52.490,0:36:56.450
that they will be able to use to

0:36:54.170,0:37:00.140
transact each other outside of the

0:36:56.450,0:37:01.460
existing monetary system and so control

0:37:00.140,0:37:03.740
of the monetary system there is

0:37:01.460,0:37:06.680
absolutely no doubt that has been the

0:37:03.740,0:37:09.260
primary method of controlling

0:37:06.680,0:37:13.250
nation-states by the West for the last

0:37:09.260,0:37:15.830
hundred years knowing what the United

0:37:13.250,0:37:18.650
States has done in Latin America what

0:37:15.830,0:37:22.400
Pinochet during the Nixon administration

0:37:18.650,0:37:23.830
I think that in some ways may be that

0:37:22.400,0:37:26.720
it's better to impose financial

0:37:23.830,0:37:30.440
sanctions then actually get him off with

0:37:26.720,0:37:33.050
your Secret Service and military but

0:37:30.440,0:37:34.690
then again I don't think there is any

0:37:33.050,0:37:37.610
right or wrong way

0:37:34.690,0:37:39.620
I'm all for peace and peaceful methods

0:37:37.610,0:37:41.570
and you should not kill civilians just

0:37:39.620,0:37:44.660
because you want you don't like

0:37:41.570,0:37:46.790
somebody's government but at the same

0:37:44.660,0:37:50.470
time you can argue that you kill their

0:37:46.790,0:37:50.470
civilians by starving them

0:37:50.520,0:37:56.550
yeah yeah that's you know one of the one

0:37:53.850,0:37:58.110
of the problems really with that also is

0:37:56.550,0:38:01.440
the this organization called the

0:37:58.110,0:38:03.840
International Monetary Fund which is a

0:38:01.440,0:38:07.250
essentially acts as a bank to these

0:38:03.840,0:38:10.380
countries by providing them with loans

0:38:07.250,0:38:12.360
but when they get these loans from the

0:38:10.380,0:38:15.600
International Monetary Fund they come

0:38:12.360,0:38:18.390
with very very strong strings attached

0:38:15.600,0:38:20.880
and so when the Monetary Fund provides

0:38:18.390,0:38:23.460
these cutters with a loan it is

0:38:20.880,0:38:27.140
typically required in the contract that

0:38:23.460,0:38:30.020
these loans have to be used to pay

0:38:27.140,0:38:32.580
American companies or foreign companies

0:38:30.020,0:38:35.700
to do the work and it gives these

0:38:32.580,0:38:37.680
countries access to the resources of

0:38:35.700,0:38:43.020
that country so many many countries in

0:38:37.680,0:38:45.600
Latin America have taken IMF loans which

0:38:43.020,0:38:47.520
are essentially it's impossible for them

0:38:45.600,0:38:51.420
to pay them back without giving up

0:38:47.520,0:38:53.340
sovereignty and so even even when these

0:38:51.420,0:38:56.490
even when we put in place a government

0:38:53.340,0:38:58.410
supposedly that we that is you know

0:38:56.490,0:38:59.640
pro-western government or whatever you

0:38:58.410,0:39:02.070
want to call it even if we put in place

0:38:59.640,0:39:04.710
a pro-western government we can still

0:39:02.070,0:39:07.490
undermine that government by essentially

0:39:04.710,0:39:10.560
you know enslaving the population with a

0:39:07.490,0:39:12.990
huge loan that these countries have to

0:39:10.560,0:39:14.640
pay off but they can't pay off and the

0:39:12.990,0:39:16.760
only way they could pay them off would

0:39:14.640,0:39:20.070
be to keep selling off their resources

0:39:16.760,0:39:21.720
and so over time this creates a lot of

0:39:20.070,0:39:24.630
problems because the populations that

0:39:21.720,0:39:25.859
these countries they these you know they

0:39:24.630,0:39:28.020
don't they don't get access to the

0:39:25.859,0:39:30.840
resources they the resources end up

0:39:28.020,0:39:35.760
getting sold other countries and Luco

0:39:30.840,0:39:37.440
and pushed overseas so you know and in

0:39:35.760,0:39:41.010
the United States definitely I mean if

0:39:37.440,0:39:43.140
you look at Iran back in the 1950s right

0:39:41.010,0:39:47.880
the you know the government then was

0:39:43.140,0:39:49.890
actually very Pro Western prior to the

0:39:47.880,0:39:55.380
Shah when the Shah of Iran was put in

0:39:49.890,0:39:57.090
power prior to 1952 the governments in

0:39:55.380,0:39:59.210
the Middle East were actually very Pro

0:39:57.090,0:40:02.930
Western they were very modern

0:39:59.210,0:40:04.640
and but they were also becoming popular

0:40:02.930,0:40:06.290
and they were also taking control of

0:40:04.640,0:40:09.140
their resources and so it's really a

0:40:06.290,0:40:12.500
battle for resources and that is

0:40:09.140,0:40:14.510
primarily why these countries have taken

0:40:12.500,0:40:15.710
these loans as they need the money in

0:40:14.510,0:40:18.380
order to get the money they have to give

0:40:15.710,0:40:19.760
up their resources and that is you know

0:40:18.380,0:40:21.320
that's really when it comes down to I

0:40:19.760,0:40:23.390
mean why is the United States so

0:40:21.320,0:40:24.650
interested in Venezuela the only reason

0:40:23.390,0:40:26.960
the United States interests in Venezuela

0:40:24.650,0:40:31.880
it's because Venezuela has a lot of oil

0:40:26.960,0:40:33.920
and that's very obvious yeah but I guess

0:40:31.880,0:40:36.890
this is part of the agreement which was

0:40:33.920,0:40:40.010
made after World War two when they

0:40:36.890,0:40:43.150
decided that it's better to have this

0:40:40.010,0:40:46.420
kind of World Order that is based on

0:40:43.150,0:40:50.990
economic cooperation as opposed to

0:40:46.420,0:40:54.080
building armies and trying to deter the

0:40:50.990,0:40:56.330
other or threaten your neighbor with the

0:40:54.080,0:41:00.140
kind of military power that you have and

0:40:56.330,0:41:02.060
I guess we have entrusted the freedom of

0:41:00.140,0:41:05.660
the world in the hands of the United

0:41:02.060,0:41:08.000
States and they even had an antagonist

0:41:05.660,0:41:10.550
on the other side of the world which was

0:41:08.000,0:41:14.060
the tellurian and did not give any kind

0:41:10.550,0:41:16.700
of freedoms mm-hmm now I guess it's

0:41:14.060,0:41:19.760
getting more ambiguous as the United

0:41:16.700,0:41:22.190
States is not as free at ease as it used

0:41:19.760,0:41:26.300
to be but it's not like Russia is any

0:41:22.190,0:41:30.349
better or country which is very close to

0:41:26.300,0:41:33.290
Russia and we like to say that if the

0:41:30.349,0:41:35.690
United States gives up on protecting us

0:41:33.290,0:41:40.070
tomorrow then the Russians can actually

0:41:35.690,0:41:44.450
take over and conquer us in a matter of

0:41:40.070,0:41:46.010
weeks maybe days yeah I mean it's

0:41:44.450,0:41:47.510
definitely it's definitely a problem and

0:41:46.010,0:41:49.130
I'm not trying to say any of these

0:41:47.510,0:41:50.690
countries are innocent by any means or

0:41:49.130,0:41:52.339
in these leaders are innocent but I

0:41:50.690,0:41:54.710
figured the problem of monetary

0:41:52.339,0:41:56.540
sovereignty the problem essentially of

0:41:54.710,0:41:59.330
you know control of a country's money

0:41:56.540,0:42:01.609
supply and central banking it destroys

0:41:59.330,0:42:03.680
countries across the planet and it

0:42:01.609,0:42:06.440
destroys societies across the planet

0:42:03.680,0:42:08.690
because fundamentally people need a way

0:42:06.440,0:42:10.550
to store value and save money and you

0:42:08.690,0:42:12.190
know that's true in any society no

0:42:10.550,0:42:14.920
matter what country you're in

0:42:12.190,0:42:17.049
and yeah i think bitcoin is a threat to

0:42:14.920,0:42:19.660
every single government Western and

0:42:17.049,0:42:22.089
Eastern and whatever you want because it

0:42:19.660,0:42:25.539
does it does take away their power to

0:42:22.089,0:42:27.579
control the individual and to and but

0:42:25.539,0:42:30.670
however you know the Bitcoin can also be

0:42:27.579,0:42:33.130
used for for doing transactions between

0:42:30.670,0:42:35.200
countries there's talk about Iran using

0:42:33.130,0:42:37.089
Bitcoin for making payments to other

0:42:35.200,0:42:39.640
countries you know in the old days they

0:42:37.089,0:42:41.529
used gold but gold is very easy to

0:42:39.640,0:42:43.569
censor and we've already seen that and

0:42:41.529,0:42:45.579
so you know there's problems you need to

0:42:43.569,0:42:47.680
move 50 tons of gold you need to you

0:42:45.579,0:42:49.210
know a billion dollars for the gold if

0:42:47.680,0:42:51.249
you need to move that between countries

0:42:49.210,0:42:53.529
that's incredibly difficult to move that

0:42:51.249,0:42:55.299
much gold and if you have to move it

0:42:53.529,0:42:58.420
with paper then you're just trusting

0:42:55.299,0:42:59.529
that that gold actually exists and that

0:42:58.420,0:43:00.999
they're actually going to redeem that

0:42:59.529,0:43:01.539
gold if it was ever needed to be

0:43:00.999,0:43:03.670
redeemed

0:43:01.539,0:43:05.890
so Bitcoin solves a pretty clear problem

0:43:03.670,0:43:08.019
for central banking there's a lot of

0:43:05.890,0:43:10.720
people in the Bitcoin space that they

0:43:08.019,0:43:13.749
subscribe to the nation' fearing of

0:43:10.720,0:43:15.700
money and I'm you know it there's a lot

0:43:13.749,0:43:18.009
of arguments about what is ideal money

0:43:15.700,0:43:20.559
but you know I think that we actually

0:43:18.009,0:43:21.880
don't know we actually don't know what

0:43:20.559,0:43:24.640
the social and political repercussions

0:43:21.880,0:43:27.609
of Bitcoin are yet you know we don't yet

0:43:24.640,0:43:29.319
actually know I think we will have a

0:43:27.609,0:43:31.319
better idea of that when the first

0:43:29.319,0:43:34.299
country actually starts officially

0:43:31.319,0:43:37.119
hoarding Bitcoin as part of their

0:43:34.299,0:43:38.950
central bank policy that is when the day

0:43:37.119,0:43:43.089
that is when things will really change

0:43:38.950,0:43:44.739
up until that point we don't know if

0:43:43.089,0:43:46.809
countries are already stocked with

0:43:44.739,0:43:48.819
Bitcoin it very it's very possible that

0:43:46.809,0:43:52.029
countries like Russia are already mining

0:43:48.819,0:43:53.799
Bitcoin and we don't know it yet yeah I

0:43:52.029,0:43:56.980
guess that's frightening when you think

0:43:53.799,0:44:00.999
about it as we can have very powerful

0:43:56.980,0:44:03.670
nation states that can have a big chunk

0:44:00.999,0:44:06.579
of coins and they have a lot of leverage

0:44:03.670,0:44:09.910
and they control a lot of bitcoins I

0:44:06.579,0:44:12.849
think we heard news about North Korea

0:44:09.910,0:44:15.660
trying to bypass their international

0:44:12.849,0:44:19.329
trade embargo is by mining Bitcoin and

0:44:15.660,0:44:21.759
then dumping it on exchanges to make

0:44:19.329,0:44:24.040
some dollars but I think at this point

0:44:21.759,0:44:27.430
in time when we speak

0:44:24.040,0:44:30.160
it's the hardest that it ever was to

0:44:27.430,0:44:32.830
actually buy some Bitcoin in a way that

0:44:30.160,0:44:36.610
you don't submit all of your personal

0:44:32.830,0:44:39.630
data yeah and if the the original

0:44:36.610,0:44:43.630
purpose has been defeated in terms of

0:44:39.630,0:44:46.330
Commerce unless you resort to methods

0:44:43.630,0:44:50.230
like coin join with was that be wallet

0:44:46.330,0:44:53.470
or whatever and if you just want to get

0:44:50.230,0:44:57.490
$100 worth of Bitcoin it's very

0:44:53.470,0:45:01.660
difficult to not do it with your ID and

0:44:57.490,0:45:03.760
some kind of kyc environment and it's an

0:45:01.660,0:45:06.040
international trend it's not just in the

0:45:03.760,0:45:09.160
United States all the exchanges are

0:45:06.040,0:45:12.610
required to ask for even more

0:45:09.160,0:45:15.430
information I think last week I read

0:45:12.610,0:45:18.250
something about bitstamp which is a very

0:45:15.430,0:45:21.220
reputed and respected exchange from

0:45:18.250,0:45:24.520
Europe asking way too many questions

0:45:21.220,0:45:26.770
about you and what you are planning to

0:45:24.520,0:45:29.950
do with your Bitcoin and how much you're

0:45:26.770,0:45:32.050
about to invest and that doesn't sing

0:45:29.950,0:45:34.510
well why do they even care they have

0:45:32.050,0:45:37.090
your name they have your personal data

0:45:34.510,0:45:39.630
they know your address why why do they

0:45:37.090,0:45:42.190
care what you do with your money after

0:45:39.630,0:45:47.320
yeah I think this is a huge problem

0:45:42.190,0:45:49.570
KIC AML exchanges they are following the

0:45:47.320,0:45:54.300
laws and they are businesses that make

0:45:49.570,0:45:56.440
money off fees for people trading so

0:45:54.300,0:45:58.390
unfortunately they're going to market to

0:45:56.440,0:46:00.820
newcomers and they're going to pull

0:45:58.390,0:46:02.680
newcomers in who are going to give up

0:46:00.820,0:46:05.950
their personal information in order to

0:46:02.680,0:46:07.270
obtain Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency and

0:46:05.950,0:46:09.310
they don't understand that they've

0:46:07.270,0:46:13.150
already given up some of their freedom

0:46:09.310,0:46:14.650
and privacy that information is will be

0:46:13.150,0:46:18.790
available to the government we have

0:46:14.650,0:46:22.630
already seen coin basis of submit lists

0:46:18.790,0:46:24.010
of users to the International or she's

0:46:22.630,0:46:27.540
made the Internal Revenue Service the

0:46:24.010,0:46:29.710
IRS the United States requested you know

0:46:27.540,0:46:31.150
documentation on who are the traders who

0:46:29.710,0:46:33.220
have traded more than twenty thousand

0:46:31.150,0:46:36.850
dollars with a Bitcoin and the coin base

0:46:33.220,0:46:37.740
gave them a list essentially and so if

0:46:36.850,0:46:41.490
you didn't pay your

0:46:37.740,0:46:43.110
taxes in that year and you use coinbase

0:46:41.490,0:46:46.260
it's very possible that you'll be

0:46:43.110,0:46:48.000
getting contacted by the IRS so on one

0:46:46.260,0:46:49.830
hand I think that there's there's the

0:46:48.000,0:46:52.230
privacy issue

0:46:49.830,0:46:53.670
I mean it's problem because now you have

0:46:52.230,0:46:55.160
to trust that all the people that work

0:46:53.670,0:46:58.110
at this company have access to your data

0:46:55.160,0:47:01.590
they know where you live they know your

0:46:58.110,0:47:02.820
name they can come to your house if you

0:47:01.590,0:47:05.820
know they could tell a friend or they

0:47:02.820,0:47:07.380
could sell your data to somebody else on

0:47:05.820,0:47:09.840
the black market who will then use that

0:47:07.380,0:47:12.570
data in a malicious way there's so many

0:47:09.840,0:47:15.840
problems that's why I'm really excited

0:47:12.570,0:47:20.369
for companies like Aztec oh if you're

0:47:15.840,0:47:22.500
familiar with Aztec o AZ Tec oh but they

0:47:20.369,0:47:25.770
have developed and they've been spending

0:47:22.500,0:47:28.860
a long time on developing a voucher

0:47:25.770,0:47:32.970
redemption service that allows you to

0:47:28.860,0:47:36.210
you know to anybody to essentially to

0:47:32.970,0:47:37.680
redeem Bitcoin just using a code and a

0:47:36.210,0:47:40.110
whole the whole idea for their platform

0:47:37.680,0:47:43.350
is that you don't you can you don't need

0:47:40.110,0:47:45.150
to submit kyc AML documentation now it

0:47:43.350,0:47:48.900
will depend on the local regulations but

0:47:45.150,0:47:51.810
the general idea is that is that you can

0:47:48.900,0:47:53.730
all you need to get that Bitcoin in your

0:47:51.810,0:47:55.410
wallet is you just need that redemption

0:47:53.730,0:47:57.330
code and you need to put an address into

0:47:55.410,0:47:59.070
one field you put the button and you've

0:47:57.330,0:48:01.350
got the Bitcoin so you could give you

0:47:59.070,0:48:02.760
could buy you could buy a voucher for

0:48:01.350,0:48:04.109
somebody else and give them that voucher

0:48:02.760,0:48:06.900
and that other person can redeem is

0:48:04.109,0:48:08.250
about you and so it opens up a lot of

0:48:06.900,0:48:10.350
opportunities for people to provide

0:48:08.250,0:48:12.780
services who are going to be middlemen

0:48:10.350,0:48:15.030
who are willing to give up some of their

0:48:12.780,0:48:17.580
maybe they're in identifying information

0:48:15.030,0:48:20.580
or it's a fee that middleman and then of

0:48:17.580,0:48:21.830
course there's Biscay isq exchange which

0:48:20.580,0:48:23.490
is a decentralized

0:48:21.830,0:48:28.590
application essentially that a

0:48:23.490,0:48:31.859
marketplace that allows people to to buy

0:48:28.590,0:48:33.330
and sell Bitcoin locally in you know

0:48:31.859,0:48:37.770
physically in front of each other and

0:48:33.330,0:48:40.050
and trade as well as in just in various

0:48:37.770,0:48:43.320
ways without having to use a centralized

0:48:40.050,0:48:44.400
exchange that requires kyc AML at just

0:48:43.320,0:48:45.990
just as we were talking earlier about

0:48:44.400,0:48:49.400
private keys being an important problem

0:48:45.990,0:48:50.589
like kyc AML is a another big problem

0:48:49.400,0:48:51.789
actually

0:48:50.589,0:48:54.999
this is one of the more terrifying

0:48:51.789,0:48:58.930
things about the crate right is that he

0:48:54.999,0:49:00.430
seems to be totally okay with he seems

0:48:58.930,0:49:02.049
to totally trust government's and the

0:49:00.430,0:49:04.329
government's and people that work in

0:49:02.049,0:49:06.160
governments have our interests at heart

0:49:04.329,0:49:08.309
and that's that's actually terribly

0:49:06.160,0:49:10.119
frightening especially in a world where

0:49:08.309,0:49:12.279
you know if you have to submit

0:49:10.119,0:49:15.099
information about yourself and you own

0:49:12.279,0:49:17.049
Bitcoin to a service and the people that

0:49:15.099,0:49:19.630
you submitted your your information to

0:49:17.049,0:49:24.309
know that you have Bitcoin that's that's

0:49:19.630,0:49:26.229
a huge risk I agree with you and I also

0:49:24.309,0:49:29.559
don't like the idea that right now on

0:49:26.229,0:49:33.789
local local bitcoins you find a lot of

0:49:29.559,0:49:36.460
people who prefer to use credit cards

0:49:33.789,0:49:39.339
for transfers so instead of meeting in

0:49:36.460,0:49:43.029
person in a public space and exchanging

0:49:39.339,0:49:47.019
a certain amount of Bitcoin for the

0:49:43.029,0:49:51.130
corresponding Mountain cash they resort

0:49:47.019,0:49:53.940
to this easy but ultimately flawed

0:49:51.130,0:50:00.239
method of using credit cards which

0:49:53.940,0:50:00.239
actually enable all the KYC in process

0:50:00.479,0:50:05.829
yeah it's a it's definitely a problem I

0:50:03.729,0:50:07.749
definitely prefer wood you know I think

0:50:05.829,0:50:09.450
that services like Aztecas voucher

0:50:07.749,0:50:12.339
service just make more sense because

0:50:09.450,0:50:14.650
it's much easier so you know it's all

0:50:12.339,0:50:17.049
you need is a little terminal to print a

0:50:14.650,0:50:19.719
receipt and you need to just and then

0:50:17.049,0:50:21.130
you know you take cash from that person

0:50:19.719,0:50:23.799
and then you print them a voucher and

0:50:21.130,0:50:26.950
then they they just redeem that voucher

0:50:23.799,0:50:28.719
so part of its a software technological

0:50:26.950,0:50:32.160
problem but the other part of it is a

0:50:28.719,0:50:34.719
regulatory and a sort of like social

0:50:32.160,0:50:36.549
re-education problem like people have

0:50:34.719,0:50:39.309
become too accustomed to just giving

0:50:36.549,0:50:40.989
away data I mean it's it's so common now

0:50:39.309,0:50:43.119
you go somewhere and you know you're

0:50:40.989,0:50:45.039
like you want to like let's say you want

0:50:43.119,0:50:46.660
to just go like go to the gym and like

0:50:45.039,0:50:48.219
use the gym and they're like well we

0:50:46.660,0:50:50.259
need your address use the gym you're

0:50:48.219,0:50:51.700
like why do you need my address for me

0:50:50.259,0:50:53.109
to use your gym I just want to pay you

0:50:51.700,0:50:55.509
to use the gym why don't I need to give

0:50:53.109,0:50:57.579
you an address everyone has become so

0:50:55.509,0:51:00.009
accustomed to taking personal data from

0:50:57.579,0:51:01.569
people and people are become so

0:51:00.009,0:51:03.759
accustomed to giving personal data to

0:51:01.569,0:51:04.539
people they don't ask questions like why

0:51:03.759,0:51:06.219
does this person

0:51:04.539,0:51:07.749
need my personal data they don't need

0:51:06.219,0:51:11.160
your personal data stop giving your

0:51:07.749,0:51:14.380
personal data away it's a it's a problem

0:51:11.160,0:51:17.709
because if your parade that's hacked

0:51:14.380,0:51:20.380
then they now have access to all your

0:51:17.709,0:51:21.969
information and you just can generally

0:51:20.380,0:51:23.559
giving your information to people that

0:51:21.969,0:51:24.489
you don't know you don't know who they

0:51:23.559,0:51:27.519
are you don't know who works at that

0:51:24.489,0:51:29.559
company anyway it's just reiterating

0:51:27.519,0:51:30.369
that point that they're the problems

0:51:29.559,0:51:32.469
multifaceted

0:51:30.369,0:51:36.699
there's there's many as many problems

0:51:32.469,0:51:40.359
essentially I think Bitcoin without any

0:51:36.699,0:51:43.269
kind of privacy measures is very

0:51:40.359,0:51:45.789
Orwellian in itself and if we get to

0:51:43.269,0:51:48.609
this point where you need to get on a

0:51:45.789,0:51:51.579
regulated exchange and buy your amount

0:51:48.609,0:51:53.289
of bitcoins with your ID and your credit

0:51:51.579,0:51:57.309
card and you have to confirm everything

0:51:53.289,0:51:59.349
and hold on to their wallet and they

0:51:57.309,0:52:02.109
know it at all times what you're doing

0:51:59.349,0:52:04.329
with your funds and I know this nowadays

0:52:02.109,0:52:06.849
that if you want to close your coin base

0:52:04.329,0:52:09.130
account you have to make sure that every

0:52:06.849,0:52:12.009
small amount of every cryptocurrency

0:52:09.130,0:52:14.890
that you're holding is traded to another

0:52:12.009,0:52:18.189
account so you are not able to escape

0:52:14.890,0:52:21.249
this system and if we don't develop any

0:52:18.189,0:52:24.159
kind of more advanced privacy measures

0:52:21.249,0:52:26.679
then it's going to be much more

0:52:24.159,0:52:30.609
Orwellian than the cashless society

0:52:26.679,0:52:34.509
where everybody sends money by credit

0:52:30.609,0:52:35.979
card and everything can be traced yeah

0:52:34.509,0:52:39.039
absolutely and this is a problem on

0:52:35.979,0:52:41.019
multi levels because not only not only

0:52:39.039,0:52:43.839
as a blockchain analysis but you also

0:52:41.019,0:52:46.630
have the the peer-to-peer protocol layer

0:52:43.839,0:52:49.239
of Bitcoin and you have the peer-to-peer

0:52:46.630,0:52:51.249
where you you using your internet you

0:52:49.239,0:52:53.799
know you have to be savvy person you

0:52:51.249,0:52:55.329
have to know how to use EPN you have to

0:52:53.799,0:52:58.779
know how to use tor you have to know how

0:52:55.329,0:53:01.199
to you have to be very careful with what

0:52:58.779,0:53:04.029
you access on what internet connection

0:53:01.199,0:53:05.890
and and when it comes to blockchain

0:53:04.029,0:53:07.569
analysis we do have some really great

0:53:05.890,0:53:10.509
tools that are out now like wasabi

0:53:07.569,0:53:12.969
wallets you have samurai wallet that is

0:53:10.509,0:53:14.349
now coming out with you know they're

0:53:12.969,0:53:17.529
coming out with what's being referred to

0:53:14.349,0:53:18.309
as pay join or PTP which is essentially

0:53:17.529,0:53:21.489
a

0:53:18.309,0:53:23.469
form of coin join that allows you know

0:53:21.489,0:53:26.289
two parties to get together and

0:53:23.469,0:53:29.049
essentially mix their owns together in a

0:53:26.289,0:53:31.449
way that nobody looking at that

0:53:29.049,0:53:34.449
transaction knows that a coin joint took

0:53:31.449,0:53:37.839
place and they also don't know what who

0:53:34.449,0:53:40.180
actually got those outputs so we now

0:53:37.839,0:53:42.039
have technology with Bitcoin that it is

0:53:40.180,0:53:45.729
very possible to have privacy if you

0:53:42.039,0:53:47.499
know what you're doing and for NDA this

0:53:45.729,0:53:48.880
will also be enhanced by something like

0:53:47.499,0:53:51.670
the lighting Network the lighting

0:53:48.880,0:53:55.719
network uses an encrypted protocol

0:53:51.670,0:53:57.789
called the Sphinx protocol and that that

0:53:55.719,0:54:00.969
protocol allows you to route payments

0:53:57.789,0:54:04.839
over an encrypted network in which Jim

0:54:00.969,0:54:08.410
where the the hop the initial hop and

0:54:04.839,0:54:11.709
the final hop do not know the the entire

0:54:08.410,0:54:13.689
route of that payment and also it's not

0:54:11.709,0:54:16.089
broadcast to any blockchain so nobody

0:54:13.689,0:54:18.189
will know so you know when people say

0:54:16.089,0:54:20.019
let's use the blockchain for payments

0:54:18.189,0:54:22.449
you know well number one of us in scale

0:54:20.019,0:54:24.099
number two it's really stupid it's it's

0:54:22.449,0:54:26.859
you're like putting all your information

0:54:24.099,0:54:30.789
out on the public why would you do that

0:54:26.859,0:54:32.650
it's much better to use yeah if you if

0:54:30.789,0:54:34.839
you if you really want privacy in this

0:54:32.650,0:54:36.670
you need to also learn how to handle

0:54:34.839,0:54:39.670
your each key exo's you need to know

0:54:36.670,0:54:42.369
that you need to manage each individual

0:54:39.670,0:54:44.829
transaction output and be careful with

0:54:42.369,0:54:46.479
mixing your outputs together again this

0:54:44.829,0:54:48.670
is something that that samurai wallet

0:54:46.479,0:54:51.099
and electron wallah that other wallets

0:54:48.670,0:54:54.189
have made it very easy for you to manage

0:54:51.099,0:54:56.650
your ETX owes most Bitcoin wallets don't

0:54:54.189,0:54:59.890
have this feature and people regularly

0:54:56.650,0:55:01.420
combine transaction outputs which are

0:54:59.890,0:55:05.079
basically giving away their identity to

0:55:01.420,0:55:08.380
people that know who then know about

0:55:05.079,0:55:11.380
those initial outputs or input so you

0:55:08.380,0:55:13.719
know blockchain analysis it is being

0:55:11.380,0:55:18.999
broken thanks to people like samurai

0:55:13.719,0:55:20.769
wallet wasabi wallet join market these

0:55:18.999,0:55:23.469
technologies are finally getting to the

0:55:20.769,0:55:25.839
point where they are able to help users

0:55:23.469,0:55:27.910
have more privacy it really is a matter

0:55:25.839,0:55:29.560
of time and education and that's also

0:55:27.910,0:55:31.960
another reason why there's no

0:55:29.560,0:55:33.580
two on board everybody because though we

0:55:31.960,0:55:37.240
need more time to build these solutions

0:55:33.580,0:55:39.160
I think it's insane that there's so much

0:55:37.240,0:55:42.400
money in this space and there are so

0:55:39.160,0:55:44.380
many people who have an interest not for

0:55:42.400,0:55:48.820
a Bitcoin not to turn into something

0:55:44.380,0:55:51.910
that can be tracked in terms of every

0:55:48.820,0:55:54.640
small transaction that you can associate

0:55:51.910,0:55:57.370
addresses with people and you can track

0:55:54.640,0:55:59.680
everything but there is such a little

0:55:57.370,0:56:02.980
amount of investments being made for

0:55:59.680,0:56:05.950
development and research for radar

0:56:02.980,0:56:07.720
fungibility and privacy and also it

0:56:05.950,0:56:10.740
blows my mind when I think about it

0:56:07.720,0:56:14.550
that's the toshi meant in terms of

0:56:10.740,0:56:16.990
ensuring privacy for us to create a new

0:56:14.550,0:56:19.630
Bitcoin address for every transaction

0:56:16.990,0:56:24.130
that we make so when we request the new

0:56:19.630,0:56:26.500
payment we generate a new address to

0:56:24.130,0:56:28.330
have the money sent to it I guess I

0:56:26.500,0:56:30.760
might be wrong I haven't read everything

0:56:28.330,0:56:33.370
that Satoshi ever wrote but as far as I

0:56:30.760,0:56:36.390
can recall this was the security model

0:56:33.370,0:56:40.300
that he suggested and if we blindly

0:56:36.390,0:56:43.540
follow satoshis words then we might just

0:56:40.300,0:56:47.110
end up giving up our sovereignty and

0:56:43.540,0:56:48.250
privacy yeah I mean it's again it's a

0:56:47.110,0:56:49.930
system where you need to know what

0:56:48.250,0:56:52.960
you're doing if you're going to that's

0:56:49.930,0:56:54.610
fine to generate it's it's better it's a

0:56:52.960,0:56:56.440
lot better than what ripple and the

0:56:54.610,0:56:57.970
theorem are doing where you have an

0:56:56.440,0:57:02.380
account based system where it's very

0:56:57.970,0:57:06.730
easy to reuse and you're here accounts

0:57:02.380,0:57:10.450
and and but however with with with

0:57:06.730,0:57:12.160
Bitcoin having utx owes it is it does

0:57:10.450,0:57:15.580
have some advantages when it comes down

0:57:12.160,0:57:17.470
to privacy in the sense that you can

0:57:15.580,0:57:20.560
manage your individual transaction

0:57:17.470,0:57:23.020
outputs so if you want to if you wants

0:57:20.560,0:57:24.580
you if you have you know point one big

0:57:23.020,0:57:26.770
one in your wallet as long as you're

0:57:24.580,0:57:28.420
using a wallet that allows you to see

0:57:26.770,0:57:30.670
those transaction outputs you can select

0:57:28.420,0:57:32.050
which ones you want to spend and you can

0:57:30.670,0:57:34.630
spend those individual transaction

0:57:32.050,0:57:36.790
outputs and generate change addresses

0:57:34.630,0:57:38.230
yeah I mean most people don't even

0:57:36.790,0:57:39.430
people have been in the crypt of space

0:57:38.230,0:57:40.990
for a long time they don't have anything

0:57:39.430,0:57:43.030
they don't even know what coin control

0:57:40.990,0:57:45.790
is they don't actually know what aut EXO

0:57:43.030,0:57:47.350
is they don't understand they don't

0:57:45.790,0:57:51.040
understand what they're giving up by

0:57:47.350,0:57:53.980
using something like ripple where where

0:57:51.040,0:57:55.720
you have an account and you have to

0:57:53.980,0:57:58.780
essentially reuse that same account over

0:57:55.720,0:58:00.910
and over you know because you've already

0:57:58.780,0:58:02.470
put a deposit in and you know you can't

0:58:00.910,0:58:04.810
in order you'd have to create a new

0:58:02.470,0:58:06.550
account every time it's in a way so

0:58:04.810,0:58:09.160
tochi's mala was pretty novel at the

0:58:06.550,0:58:10.770
time for what it did it wasn't perfect

0:58:09.160,0:58:13.540
but I think it has one advantage is that

0:58:10.770,0:58:15.760
that least we have a you know with

0:58:13.540,0:58:17.320
Bitcoin being a public blockchain at

0:58:15.760,0:58:19.570
least we can verify that there's no

0:58:17.320,0:58:21.610
there's no coins out there that are

0:58:19.570,0:58:24.010
being created that we can't see that's

0:58:21.610,0:58:25.990
one problem with you know coins that are

0:58:24.010,0:58:28.030
yeah cryptocurrencies that are private

0:58:25.990,0:58:30.190
by default is that we don't actually

0:58:28.030,0:58:33.520
it's very hard to validate that

0:58:30.190,0:58:35.800
no no cryptocurrencies were were created

0:58:33.520,0:58:37.660
that we can't see due to a bug or flaw

0:58:35.800,0:58:40.630
which is a lot of the people have

0:58:37.660,0:58:43.680
criticized see cash because of this and

0:58:40.630,0:58:46.540
also ripple because the first 30,000

0:58:43.680,0:58:50.980
32,000 ledger entries from ripple are

0:58:46.540,0:58:52.720
missing and also just in general main

0:58:50.980,0:58:55.480
you know people is if these are

0:58:52.720,0:58:57.910
cryptographic this is cryptographic

0:58:55.480,0:59:00.850
technology that's it's very young it's

0:58:57.910,0:59:02.170
very new so you know putting a lot of

0:59:00.850,0:59:03.520
money into something like nimble Wimble

0:59:02.170,0:59:05.530
is probably pretty reckless right now

0:59:03.520,0:59:07.390
because you know it's possible that

0:59:05.530,0:59:08.410
could be broken there could be bugs in

0:59:07.390,0:59:10.090
it that we don't know there could be

0:59:08.410,0:59:11.710
inflation bugs you know there was an

0:59:10.090,0:59:14.470
inflation bug in Bitcoin that was

0:59:11.710,0:59:16.120
discovered and that first one was fixed

0:59:14.470,0:59:17.380
and then there was another potential bug

0:59:16.120,0:59:19.180
that could have caused inflation so

0:59:17.380,0:59:21.010
there are bugs even in public block

0:59:19.180,0:59:23.320
chains that could cause they could allow

0:59:21.010,0:59:25.390
people to inflate the supply and if you

0:59:23.320,0:59:27.880
have a private blockchain when I say

0:59:25.390,0:59:31.150
private I mean if launching it has

0:59:27.880,0:59:33.130
privacy by default there that problem

0:59:31.150,0:59:36.490
becomes potentially much more hard to

0:59:33.130,0:59:38.650
track so I like the model I actually

0:59:36.490,0:59:39.850
love the model of Bitcoin as long as you

0:59:38.650,0:59:43.000
know how to use it you know how to use

0:59:39.850,0:59:46.090
your UT exo's and you understand these

0:59:43.000,0:59:47.250
new technologies like coin join and then

0:59:46.090,0:59:49.260
if you understand why

0:59:47.250,0:59:51.120
network you know that you can make

0:59:49.260,0:59:52.640
payments between you and other people

0:59:51.120,0:59:55.320
that aren't broadcast to the blockchain

0:59:52.640,0:59:56.190
I think all these things are really

0:59:55.320,0:59:58.440
great step in the right direction

0:59:56.190,1:00:00.870
there's no silver bullet for this

0:59:58.440,1:00:04.290
problem there are many ways that people

1:00:00.870,1:00:05.430
can give up their privacy and just

1:00:04.290,1:00:07.920
because you're using something like

1:00:05.430,1:00:09.750
Manero doesn't mean that you have

1:00:07.920,1:00:12.120
privacy because it depends on how you

1:00:09.750,1:00:14.430
use that kirkuk currency are you using a

1:00:12.120,1:00:16.050
VPN or using tor where did you obtain

1:00:14.430,1:00:17.730
that manera from did you buy it from an

1:00:16.050,1:00:20.640
exchange did you withdraw to your wallet

1:00:17.730,1:00:21.990
did you there's a lot of questions did

1:00:20.640,1:00:22.890
you send a payment of somebody who now

1:00:21.990,1:00:25.440
has your address

1:00:22.890,1:00:29.430
I need those there's a lot of problems

1:00:25.440,1:00:31.500
right like the that privacy around

1:00:29.430,1:00:35.420
privacy that are not solved by any

1:00:31.500,1:00:37.650
single silver bullet just look at us

1:00:35.420,1:00:39.600
pretending to care so much about the

1:00:37.650,1:00:44.790
technology when it's all about the games

1:00:39.600,1:00:47.160
right Maxim or USD and just investing in

1:00:44.790,1:00:49.770
the first ship coin we find on Finance

1:00:47.160,1:00:53.250
and getting more BTC just and get more

1:00:49.770,1:00:54.600
USD during the next bull run yeah people

1:00:53.250,1:00:56.370
just don't know they don't they don't

1:00:54.600,1:00:58.140
they don't know right like so many

1:00:56.370,1:00:59.490
newcomers just they just have no idea

1:00:58.140,1:01:01.530
what they're buying and they don't

1:00:59.490,1:01:03.240
actually know the game that's being

1:01:01.530,1:01:05.480
played they don't know the problems that

1:01:03.240,1:01:08.010
are being solved and so unfortunately

1:01:05.480,1:01:11.040
people have made a large amount of money

1:01:08.010,1:01:13.170
fortunes many you know by telling people

1:01:11.040,1:01:15.450
to buy all coins and providing them an

1:01:13.170,1:01:17.010
avenue to buy them and not explaining

1:01:15.450,1:01:18.690
the risks and this is something that you

1:01:17.010,1:01:19.770
will see in the Bitcoin community you've

1:01:18.690,1:01:21.510
probably seen the Bitcoin community

1:01:19.770,1:01:24.030
argues with each other a lot like

1:01:21.510,1:01:25.800
there's bitcoiners are more ruthless

1:01:24.030,1:01:28.590
towards their fellow bitcoiners because

1:01:25.800,1:01:30.060
everybody in Bitcoin is incredibly they

1:01:28.590,1:01:31.710
believed strongly in these things and

1:01:30.060,1:01:33.930
they will fight to the death for these

1:01:31.710,1:01:36.060
things you don't find these types of

1:01:33.930,1:01:38.250
sentiments in all courts typically most

1:01:36.060,1:01:40.710
all pointers are going to be people who

1:01:38.250,1:01:42.120
really they're they don't actually

1:01:40.710,1:01:43.590
understand these problems and they

1:01:42.120,1:01:45.050
actually don't care about them a lot of

1:01:43.590,1:01:47.580
them are actually people who might

1:01:45.050,1:01:51.000
prefer they just trust a third party or

1:01:47.580,1:01:52.350
trust with centralized entities so you

1:01:51.000,1:01:54.120
know these are these are things that

1:01:52.350,1:01:56.820
take a long time to understand and be

1:01:54.120,1:01:59.740
educated about you know what I learned

1:01:56.820,1:02:01.660
in time while looking at the

1:01:59.740,1:02:03.610
different Twitter accounts and how

1:02:01.660,1:02:06.310
people react and how people from

1:02:03.610,1:02:08.590
different communities presents

1:02:06.310,1:02:11.619
narratives in order to justify their

1:02:08.590,1:02:15.630
deeds a lot of people don't even care

1:02:11.619,1:02:19.360
about most stuff and they don't really

1:02:15.630,1:02:21.910
care about a technology to the extent

1:02:19.360,1:02:25.360
that it helps the protocol but think

1:02:21.910,1:02:28.619
about short terms or midterm gains in

1:02:25.360,1:02:32.560
terms of maximizing their investments I

1:02:28.619,1:02:34.630
think that's it might be useful in terms

1:02:32.560,1:02:38.200
of bringing more money into the market

1:02:34.630,1:02:40.810
and I think that these people who get

1:02:38.200,1:02:44.110
the blame wouldn't invest in Bitcoin

1:02:40.810,1:02:46.420
anyway so we like to blame coinbase

1:02:44.110,1:02:49.810
sometimes for listening all the bad

1:02:46.420,1:02:51.970
coins and listening XRP and allowing

1:02:49.810,1:02:55.780
people to get the illusion that they are

1:02:51.970,1:02:58.390
investing in the next big asset that's

1:02:55.780,1:03:01.710
going to go to the moon and what's the

1:02:58.390,1:03:05.230
meme about XRP that it's going to read

1:03:01.710,1:03:08.500
379 dollars or something like that yeah

1:03:05.230,1:03:11.500
anyway yeah I think these people would

1:03:08.500,1:03:14.320
be attracted by these projects anyway

1:03:11.500,1:03:17.070
and would never get into Bitcoin and I

1:03:14.320,1:03:19.900
guess this argument gets back to

1:03:17.070,1:03:21.960
deteriorate late drug because sooner or

1:03:19.900,1:03:24.340
later they're going to be disappointed

1:03:21.960,1:03:26.859
and they're going to get rekt they're

1:03:24.340,1:03:28.630
going to lose their investments and if

1:03:26.859,1:03:31.180
they are still interested and they

1:03:28.630,1:03:32.950
acquire some kind of knowledge then they

1:03:31.180,1:03:34.980
might turn their heads to Bitcoin and

1:03:32.950,1:03:38.369
realize that this is the real deal or

1:03:34.980,1:03:41.920
else they're going to just make some

1:03:38.369,1:03:45.130
speculators richer and move on with

1:03:41.920,1:03:47.290
their lives into something else but one

1:03:45.130,1:03:51.550
argument that what your viewer uses all

1:03:47.290,1:03:54.880
the time is that BTC has lost dominance

1:03:51.550,1:03:56.980
on the market and it's all because the

1:03:54.880,1:03:59.710
blocks did not increase to allow

1:03:56.980,1:04:01.180
scalability and the devs were too

1:03:59.710,1:04:03.700
stubborn to allow for new

1:04:01.180,1:04:06.130
implementations to be made and he likes

1:04:03.700,1:04:08.470
to say that Vitalik wanted to build in

1:04:06.130,1:04:10.050
cerium on top of Bitcoin and they did

1:04:08.470,1:04:15.360
not love him because

1:04:10.050,1:04:19.080
was a bad idea and I don't think this is

1:04:15.360,1:04:22.650
I think he finds some causes but they're

1:04:19.080,1:04:25.590
not causal in this sense they are just

1:04:22.650,1:04:28.980
some phenomena that are there they might

1:04:25.590,1:04:31.380
have influenced what we called dominance

1:04:28.980,1:04:33.660
which in itself is a bad metric because

1:04:31.380,1:04:37.380
it's measured in terms of market cap

1:04:33.660,1:04:39.750
which is also bad metric but it doesn't

1:04:37.380,1:04:42.480
measure volume it's about how much money

1:04:39.750,1:04:46.050
is put into that particular coin at that

1:04:42.480,1:04:47.760
exact time yeah market capitalization is

1:04:46.050,1:04:49.500
a really stupid metric in the sense that

1:04:47.760,1:04:51.780
it can easy to game it

1:04:49.500,1:04:53.670
it has market liquidity is far more

1:04:51.780,1:04:56.190
important the buy support is far more

1:04:53.670,1:04:57.050
important but you know you look at

1:04:56.190,1:05:00.900
something like

1:04:57.050,1:05:02.610
etherium for example and I don't think

1:05:00.900,1:05:03.720
vitalic was ever gonna build it on top

1:05:02.610,1:05:06.180
of Bitcoin

1:05:03.720,1:05:08.850
yeah maybe but that didn't you know just

1:05:06.180,1:05:10.020
because there was a lot of people who

1:05:08.850,1:05:11.520
wanted to put a lot of things on Bitcoin

1:05:10.020,1:05:13.620
and I'm sorry that they didn't get to do

1:05:11.520,1:05:17.190
that but you know I don't believe a

1:05:13.620,1:05:18.510
theorem has any value i I don't I when

1:05:17.190,1:05:20.790
you keep looking at the narratives the

1:05:18.510,1:05:22.260
narrative aetherium constantly change in

1:05:20.790,1:05:24.180
the film when it was first launched it

1:05:22.260,1:05:26.100
was so that was being marketed as the

1:05:24.180,1:05:27.510
world computer and then the next thing

1:05:26.100,1:05:28.980
was that it was going to be these you

1:05:27.510,1:05:31.440
know the Dow that decentralized

1:05:28.980,1:05:33.270
autonomous organization and then you

1:05:31.440,1:05:34.710
know then went to DAPs and then DAPs

1:05:33.270,1:05:36.960
turned out to be a total flop because

1:05:34.710,1:05:38.670
they have terrible user experience and

1:05:36.960,1:05:41.850
they're fundamentally unscalable on

1:05:38.670,1:05:43.680
chain and then now the new one is defy

1:05:41.850,1:05:45.690
like you know decentralized finance

1:05:43.680,1:05:47.550
which is another just marketing buzzword

1:05:45.690,1:05:49.590
it's always a new buzzword with these

1:05:47.550,1:05:51.630
people every single time it's not real

1:05:49.590,1:05:53.970
in it it's not real innovation it's not

1:05:51.630,1:05:55.650
real application or use it's just in

1:05:53.970,1:05:56.280
it's just speculation and marketing

1:05:55.650,1:06:00.300
buzzwords

1:05:56.280,1:06:02.490
and you know so many people it's

1:06:00.300,1:06:04.050
actually incredibly irresponsible to be

1:06:02.490,1:06:05.400
selling this technology to anyone as a

1:06:04.050,1:06:06.750
solution for something when it's

1:06:05.400,1:06:08.940
fundamentally insecure in the first

1:06:06.750,1:06:10.190
place you can't build something you

1:06:08.940,1:06:13.170
shouldn't be building on top of

1:06:10.190,1:06:14.760
something like aetherium when name when

1:06:13.170,1:06:16.800
that protocol is gonna continue to hard

1:06:14.760,1:06:19.890
fork and it has tremendous like

1:06:16.800,1:06:21.990
governance problems governance was never

1:06:19.890,1:06:23.430
a problem in Bitcoin the problem was the

1:06:21.990,1:06:26.279
problem was essentially that the

1:06:23.430,1:06:27.960
people were trying to force something to

1:06:26.279,1:06:30.119
be used for something that it naturally

1:06:27.960,1:06:31.770
really doesn't doesn't scale it and

1:06:30.119,1:06:34.500
doesn't scale for a number of reasons

1:06:31.770,1:06:36.569
socially it's unscalable you will have

1:06:34.500,1:06:37.200
disagreements look even when we had big

1:06:36.569,1:06:39.299
blocks

1:06:37.200,1:06:41.190
now there's two corners with big blocks

1:06:39.299,1:06:42.180
why because they disagreed and the

1:06:41.190,1:06:44.549
teacher there's going to be more of

1:06:42.180,1:06:46.920
those Bitcoin Forks off of those there

1:06:44.549,1:06:48.990
eventually there will be be it Bitcoin

1:06:46.920,1:06:50.220
has fears Satoshi vision people who will

1:06:48.990,1:06:52.289
disagree with these other people and

1:06:50.220,1:06:54.510
they will fork their own and they will

1:06:52.289,1:06:55.950
say their coin is the real Bitcoin and

1:06:54.510,1:06:59.250
there will be now they're talking about

1:06:55.950,1:07:00.809
etherium 2.0 I'm sorry what like why

1:06:59.250,1:07:02.010
you're building a new blockchain and

1:07:00.809,1:07:03.420
you're just gonna like court everything

1:07:02.010,1:07:04.650
from the old one to the new one like

1:07:03.420,1:07:06.869
this is the stupidest thing I've ever

1:07:04.650,1:07:09.390
heard this this doesn't make any sense

1:07:06.869,1:07:11.160
like what you you don't find anyone in

1:07:09.390,1:07:13.230
the real business world that actually is

1:07:11.160,1:07:15.299
building real applications for cut for

1:07:13.230,1:07:18.210
consumer use cases out in the wild

1:07:15.299,1:07:20.609
actual businesses that have any use for

1:07:18.210,1:07:22.559
any of any of these things they don't

1:07:20.609,1:07:24.059
have any use for this stuff I know as a

1:07:22.559,1:07:27.150
matter of fact I work in industries that

1:07:24.059,1:07:28.470
have that have been pitched these

1:07:27.150,1:07:29.549
technologies and I can tell you the

1:07:28.470,1:07:31.200
matter of fact that people that are

1:07:29.549,1:07:33.779
marketing them have no idea about three

1:07:31.200,1:07:34.980
Arkadiy they have no idea that problems

1:07:33.779,1:07:38.069
are trying to solve they don't even

1:07:34.980,1:07:39.569
understand the technology so you just

1:07:38.069,1:07:44.240
have it's sort of like a perfect storm

1:07:39.569,1:07:47.880
of ignorance and marketing scammers and

1:07:44.240,1:07:49.200
really a lot of people who frankly they

1:07:47.880,1:07:50.760
don't have anything better to do they

1:07:49.200,1:07:52.349
don't and they're not out there building

1:07:50.760,1:07:54.450
solutions they're not out there doing

1:07:52.349,1:07:55.740
meaningful work they probably there's a

1:07:54.450,1:07:57.930
lot of people in the crypto space that

1:07:55.740,1:07:59.609
are unemployed and they don't you know

1:07:57.930,1:08:01.200
they're they're trying to make money and

1:07:59.609,1:08:03.720
one of the easiest ways to make money is

1:08:01.200,1:08:05.520
to just try to buy an altcoin and try to

1:08:03.720,1:08:09.240
you know speculate that maybe it goes up

1:08:05.520,1:08:12.420
in value so yeah I mean you know these

1:08:09.240,1:08:13.829
use cases that you know that like Roger

1:08:12.420,1:08:15.599
beer is constantly going on about I

1:08:13.829,1:08:18.330
think it's totally false that the market

1:08:15.599,1:08:20.009
dominance dropped because of the scaling

1:08:18.330,1:08:21.480
debate I think that's that's that's a

1:08:20.009,1:08:24.719
that's something that Roger beer will

1:08:21.480,1:08:27.839
use in retrospect because because it's

1:08:24.719,1:08:29.759
because it it sounds like it it sound it

1:08:27.839,1:08:31.109
sells well to newcomers like newbies

1:08:29.759,1:08:33.659
will look at that and they will think oh

1:08:31.109,1:08:34.370
that's why that's why big one has lost

1:08:33.659,1:08:36.590
dominance

1:08:34.370,1:08:38.900
no it didn't was loose dominants because

1:08:36.590,1:08:40.190
of that it's at least lost dominance

1:08:38.900,1:08:41.960
because there's an unlimited number of

1:08:40.190,1:08:43.340
all coins it doesn't it doesn't matter

1:08:41.960,1:08:45.590
dominance measured in a mark

1:08:43.340,1:08:47.380
capitalization is irrelevant when

1:08:45.590,1:08:50.540
there's an infinite number of all points

1:08:47.380,1:08:52.310
so you know the dominate the dominance

1:08:50.540,1:08:54.980
I'm not that interested in the dominance

1:08:52.310,1:08:56.720
to be honest with you I fundamentally

1:08:54.980,1:08:59.000
believe that the people who are looking

1:08:56.720,1:09:00.800
for a store of value and sound and sound

1:08:59.000,1:09:02.930
monetary policy and true

1:09:00.800,1:09:04.430
decentralization and long term low type

1:09:02.930,1:09:06.020
F from store value I believe those

1:09:04.430,1:09:07.820
people are going to move towards Bitcoin

1:09:06.020,1:09:09.380
I don't really care what the other

1:09:07.820,1:09:11.390
people do they are welcome to go

1:09:09.380,1:09:12.730
speculate and experiment but eventually

1:09:11.390,1:09:15.020
they won't come to the realization that

1:09:12.730,1:09:19.250
none of this is useful if you can't

1:09:15.020,1:09:20.840
store value I really agree with you but

1:09:19.250,1:09:23.450
at the same time I want to point out

1:09:20.840,1:09:26.960
that the money that went into et reom

1:09:23.450,1:09:28.220
would have never gone into Bitcoin yeah

1:09:26.960,1:09:30.770
I think you're right probably didn't

1:09:28.220,1:09:32.630
have different philosophies and they are

1:09:30.770,1:09:36.590
attract different types of people and

1:09:32.630,1:09:39.410
each cerium is attractive to the Silicon

1:09:36.590,1:09:41.480
Valley type and the Wall Street guys who

1:09:39.410,1:09:44.150
think that they can tokenize everything

1:09:41.480,1:09:47.600
and put it under blockchain with minimal

1:09:44.150,1:09:49.850
efforts and it also attracts scammers

1:09:47.600,1:09:53.390
and none of these can be done with

1:09:49.850,1:09:56.420
Bitcoin and I guess Bitcoin has a

1:09:53.390,1:09:59.750
stronger immune system there is no way

1:09:56.420,1:10:03.110
that five people can get inside the room

1:09:59.750,1:10:05.510
and decide to delay or network upgrade

1:10:03.110,1:10:07.760
in the case of Bitcoin that there isn't

1:10:05.510,1:10:11.090
even a hard core that's getting planned

1:10:07.760,1:10:13.610
unless we need to have some kind of

1:10:11.090,1:10:15.760
emergency to change the mining algorithm

1:10:13.610,1:10:19.550
which has been I guess the discussion

1:10:15.760,1:10:21.320
since the first few days of Bitcoin when

1:10:19.550,1:10:23.420
they said that the cryptography should

1:10:21.320,1:10:26.240
protect the network and the moment when

1:10:23.420,1:10:30.590
as a change of 56 gets broken they're

1:10:26.240,1:10:33.560
going to change it and also I think the

1:10:30.590,1:10:36.350
developers also have some kind of

1:10:33.560,1:10:39.050
quantum computing proof system for

1:10:36.350,1:10:42.380
wallets or whenever we need to move on

1:10:39.050,1:10:44.510
so that's the inevitable moment when we

1:10:42.380,1:10:45.250
are going to have a hard work which is

1:10:44.510,1:10:48.910
necessary

1:10:45.250,1:10:52.240
is justified it's not like we have had a

1:10:48.910,1:10:54.430
small minority who act as the elites and

1:10:52.240,1:10:57.790
they decide by themselves when the right

1:10:54.430,1:11:02.470
moment is to just some kind of upgrade

1:10:57.790,1:11:06.760
and I know that Vitalik is a smart guy

1:11:02.470,1:11:09.220
and he has a lot of understanding of the

1:11:06.760,1:11:11.230
phenomenon and his brilliant at his age

1:11:09.220,1:11:15.130
that she was able to comprehend all that

1:11:11.230,1:11:17.560
information and build something that we

1:11:15.130,1:11:21.370
may agree that is not useful but it's

1:11:17.560,1:11:23.140
still impressive as an implementation I

1:11:21.370,1:11:25.030
think a lot of people have built a lot

1:11:23.140,1:11:27.880
of interesting systems in the blockchain

1:11:25.030,1:11:30.370
space and they just didn't get the they

1:11:27.880,1:11:33.460
didn't get the level of investment that

1:11:30.370,1:11:35.110
buy talent got so and I think it was

1:11:33.460,1:11:36.820
because account you know there were

1:11:35.110,1:11:40.330
there were many people involved in

1:11:36.820,1:11:42.490
etherium and yeah they were in Silicon

1:11:40.330,1:11:43.780
Valley and they had access to a large

1:11:42.490,1:11:45.400
pool of capital but there's definitely

1:11:43.780,1:11:47.440
there's definitely been a lot of

1:11:45.400,1:11:49.830
projects in the blockchain space that I

1:11:47.440,1:11:51.910
think or whatever that are interesting

1:11:49.830,1:11:53.350
conceptually they just didn't get that

1:11:51.910,1:11:55.060
investment because it was just a matter

1:11:53.350,1:11:56.890
of they didn't know those the right

1:11:55.060,1:11:59.050
people and they weren't in the right

1:11:56.890,1:12:00.850
circles but it's theirs to me there's

1:11:59.050,1:12:03.400
nothing special about vitalic that

1:12:00.850,1:12:06.190
someone else wouldn't have done or

1:12:03.400,1:12:08.440
attempted at Orion complete you know

1:12:06.190,1:12:11.530
blockchain or whatever a virtual machine

1:12:08.440,1:12:12.850
is it's not like that he was the only

1:12:11.530,1:12:15.430
person that could have done that it's

1:12:12.850,1:12:16.990
just that early developers a Bitcoin

1:12:15.430,1:12:18.430
said that was a stupid form this idea

1:12:16.990,1:12:20.530
and so they they didn't pursue it so

1:12:18.430,1:12:21.790
it's finally he pursued it I think

1:12:20.530,1:12:23.740
somebody else would have pursued it as

1:12:21.790,1:12:27.160
well and people aren't pursuing those

1:12:23.740,1:12:29.890
things however you know yeah I mean he's

1:12:27.160,1:12:32.470
a I suppose he's a smart person per se I

1:12:29.890,1:12:34.510
just I just think there's an incredible

1:12:32.470,1:12:35.980
disconnect between people who run

1:12:34.510,1:12:39.850
businesses and understand the business

1:12:35.980,1:12:43.690
world versus you know theoretical ideas

1:12:39.850,1:12:45.190
and applications so no it's probably the

1:12:43.690,1:12:46.780
same problem that a lot like in the

1:12:45.190,1:12:48.880
dot-com boom there was a lot of people

1:12:46.780,1:12:50.050
that were pitching in common internet

1:12:48.880,1:12:54.160
for something that it actually wasn't

1:12:50.050,1:12:56.410
that realistic for at that time but you

1:12:54.160,1:12:57.940
know I I guess I guess I'm fine with the

1:12:56.410,1:12:59.710
experimentation what I have

1:12:57.940,1:13:02.080
problem with is that you have people

1:12:59.710,1:13:04.480
like by telling who they use their

1:13:02.080,1:13:07.150
position to attack Bitcoin and they I

1:13:04.480,1:13:09.520
mean in the last bit bit core Bitcoin

1:13:07.150,1:13:12.070
cash for you know like italic has

1:13:09.520,1:13:15.610
repeatedly taken Roger beers side many

1:13:12.070,1:13:17.560
times he seems to be socially like inept

1:13:15.610,1:13:19.300
or completely ignoring the fact that

1:13:17.560,1:13:21.850
Roger beer has said horrible things

1:13:19.300,1:13:23.590
about Bitcoin developers Roger beer

1:13:21.850,1:13:25.480
accuses people of doing all sorts of

1:13:23.590,1:13:27.699
things that are not true

1:13:25.480,1:13:29.949
Roger grew wise a lot and you don't see

1:13:27.699,1:13:31.600
you don't see my talent calling Roger

1:13:29.949,1:13:33.820
beer out you know you don't see that

1:13:31.600,1:13:36.010
happening so I really questioned the

1:13:33.820,1:13:37.989
ethics and morals of a lot of people in

1:13:36.010,1:13:39.910
that community because I think they use

1:13:37.989,1:13:42.460
Bitcoin when it can when it's convenient

1:13:39.910,1:13:43.960
for them they they pretend to like

1:13:42.460,1:13:46.120
Bitcoin when it's convenient for them

1:13:43.960,1:13:48.840
but then they turn around and they

1:13:46.120,1:13:51.760
attack it when it's convenient for them

1:13:48.840,1:13:54.250
you know I guess Metallica is under a

1:13:51.760,1:13:57.790
lot of scrutiny and despite his

1:13:54.250,1:13:59.770
intelligence he he got into this kind of

1:13:57.790,1:14:02.890
situation where he has a lot of

1:13:59.770,1:14:05.500
responsibility and he has to account to

1:14:02.890,1:14:08.530
VCS who put a lot of money to his

1:14:05.500,1:14:12.280
project so he has to fulfill these

1:14:08.530,1:14:14.650
expectations and deliver a working

1:14:12.280,1:14:17.140
product and then this regard I think a

1:14:14.650,1:14:20.949
Tyrian works more as a business whereas

1:14:17.140,1:14:23.830
bitcoin is protocol that simply

1:14:20.949,1:14:26.590
functions and the fact that it doesn't

1:14:23.830,1:14:28.750
receive any kind of upgrades in a given

1:14:26.590,1:14:31.239
amount of time is not a part but a

1:14:28.750,1:14:34.750
feature and a demonstration of the

1:14:31.239,1:14:37.300
capability and the sustainability of

1:14:34.750,1:14:38.830
this protocol whereas in the case of

1:14:37.300,1:14:42.430
aetherium it's a whole different animal

1:14:38.830,1:14:45.550
they expect to scale they expect to have

1:14:42.430,1:14:48.640
all these kind of pretty useless but

1:14:45.550,1:14:53.710
crazy decentralized applications to be

1:14:48.640,1:14:55.239
running supposedly they're not actually

1:14:53.710,1:14:57.250
decentralized that's part of the problem

1:14:55.239,1:14:58.719
the applications might appear to be

1:14:57.250,1:14:59.920
decentralized but when you actually go

1:14:58.719,1:15:01.449
down and break it down these

1:14:59.920,1:15:04.300
applications are likely using a

1:15:01.449,1:15:06.580
third-party service to actually run the

1:15:04.300,1:15:08.140
application so you know what happens is

1:15:06.580,1:15:10.249
you end up you end up getting so far

1:15:08.140,1:15:11.929
away from from running your own Oh

1:15:10.249,1:15:13.729
we get so far away from the action to

1:15:11.929,1:15:16.780
centralise thing that you really just

1:15:13.729,1:15:19.429
end up with a sort of like semi

1:15:16.780,1:15:20.989
decentralized copy of existing

1:15:19.429,1:15:23.889
applications that doesn't actually work

1:15:20.989,1:15:27.019
very well for what it's trying to do so

1:15:23.889,1:15:28.460
and I think that this is just a part of

1:15:27.019,1:15:30.349
the disconnect you know my talent

1:15:28.460,1:15:32.389
doesn't he doesn't believe in proof of

1:15:30.349,1:15:35.059
work he believes and he wants to switch

1:15:32.389,1:15:36.499
to perfect stake this is there's been a

1:15:35.059,1:15:39.530
there's a number of problems with that

1:15:36.499,1:15:41.869
as we know there's there the problems

1:15:39.530,1:15:44.510
are insurmountable actually there's no

1:15:41.869,1:15:45.679
real alternative to proof of work out

1:15:44.510,1:15:48.260
there

1:15:45.679,1:15:50.449
and and so you know these ideas

1:15:48.260,1:15:53.179
unfortunately they appeal to newcomers

1:15:50.449,1:15:56.119
and they appeal to a lot of newbies

1:15:53.179,1:15:58.010
because they they don't they don't

1:15:56.119,1:15:59.900
understand the security model they don't

1:15:58.010,1:16:02.510
understand the risks they can't think

1:15:59.900,1:16:04.429
long term and a lot of them are very

1:16:02.510,1:16:06.679
susceptible to being sold marketing

1:16:04.429,1:16:09.860
schemes right like these are these are

1:16:06.679,1:16:11.599
marketing schemes that they are sold and

1:16:09.860,1:16:17.719
they don't they don't really take the

1:16:11.599,1:16:20.659
time to analyze the long-term security

1:16:17.719,1:16:23.539
and models of these these networks and

1:16:20.659,1:16:25.280
what is really at stake is is the big

1:16:23.539,1:16:27.199
question like what is what is really

1:16:25.280,1:16:30.519
what do we really you know what's the

1:16:27.199,1:16:33.050
real problems that this is solving and

1:16:30.519,1:16:35.479
you know if you can't if you can't

1:16:33.050,1:16:37.039
ultimately use that system and a fully

1:16:35.479,1:16:39.380
decentralized way and then there's

1:16:37.039,1:16:42.380
really no point doing in the first place

1:16:39.380,1:16:45.019
I think right now Daddy mentioned these

1:16:42.380,1:16:48.860
facts I just came across this thought

1:16:45.019,1:16:52.699
that I think it cerium is essentially a

1:16:48.860,1:16:55.159
very post modernist project where the

1:16:52.699,1:16:58.369
technical truth is less important than

1:16:55.159,1:17:00.619
the narrative and the story that they

1:16:58.369,1:17:03.469
want to build and the beliefs that they

1:17:00.619,1:17:05.300
have as a community they want to believe

1:17:03.469,1:17:07.670
that proof of state works they want to

1:17:05.300,1:17:11.749
believe that their sharding

1:17:07.670,1:17:14.440
implementation is functional they did

1:17:11.749,1:17:17.599
receive a terrible peer review from

1:17:14.440,1:17:21.409
academics and technical specialists who

1:17:17.599,1:17:23.530
reviewed their plans but they still try

1:17:21.409,1:17:28.900
to believe and the

1:17:23.530,1:17:31.990
they present themselves as these masonic

1:17:28.900,1:17:34.060
figures who want to save the protocol

1:17:31.990,1:17:36.280
and bring something better and always

1:17:34.060,1:17:38.700
improve and as we speak right now I

1:17:36.280,1:17:42.670
think they might be having that

1:17:38.700,1:17:45.070
Constantinople hard work so yeah as

1:17:42.670,1:17:47.560
opposed to Bitcoin which is all about

1:17:45.070,1:17:51.010
facts and something that can be verified

1:17:47.560,1:17:53.890
in an objective way it's helium is about

1:17:51.010,1:17:56.350
constructing the narrative that's why we

1:17:53.890,1:17:59.260
ended up having projects like Tron it's

1:17:56.350,1:18:03.510
going to be the serial killer and

1:17:59.260,1:18:06.520
they're all about marketing also EOS and

1:18:03.510,1:18:10.360
everything that came after it they are

1:18:06.520,1:18:12.460
all about the story behind them but less

1:18:10.360,1:18:18.460
about the technology and that's why they

1:18:12.460,1:18:20.200
get pumped by the marketing teams yeah

1:18:18.460,1:18:22.240
yeah absolutely and these people are

1:18:20.200,1:18:23.800
holding a lot of this cryptocurrency and

1:18:22.240,1:18:29.440
so they are heavily invested in making

1:18:23.800,1:18:32.140
this narrative work yeah and in the case

1:18:29.440,1:18:34.900
of Bitcoin it doesn't care about how we

1:18:32.140,1:18:36.300
understand it how we perceive it what do

1:18:34.900,1:18:40.270
we want it to be

1:18:36.300,1:18:44.320
it just works and it's there and we can

1:18:40.270,1:18:47.050
use it and whenever we wake up from this

1:18:44.320,1:18:48.970
idealistic stegler maybe maybe that

1:18:47.050,1:18:52.210
proof of stake is a good idea for the

1:18:48.970,1:18:55.570
environment but if you want to have this

1:18:52.210,1:18:59.740
great goal of having uncensor about

1:18:55.570,1:19:02.980
money that is independent and not

1:18:59.740,1:19:05.800
reliant on any government of the world

1:19:02.980,1:19:08.410
then it's useful to have Bitcoin on a

1:19:05.800,1:19:12.370
proof of work system and maybe that it's

1:19:08.410,1:19:15.430
better than et reom picked up on hashing

1:19:12.370,1:19:18.940
and I'm not sure if these machines that

1:19:15.430,1:19:21.250
currently run in Syria mining will be

1:19:18.940,1:19:25.660
able to switch to Bitcoin in a way that

1:19:21.250,1:19:27.010
is profitable but when they say that

1:19:25.660,1:19:29.950
they're moving to proof of stake

1:19:27.010,1:19:32.400
sometimes I think ok that's good for a

1:19:29.950,1:19:32.400
Bitcoin

1:19:32.639,1:19:36.330
yeah I think it's I think it's great for

1:19:34.380,1:19:38.429
Bitcoin I think they're I think that

1:19:36.330,1:19:39.900
they're going to if they ever pull it

1:19:38.429,1:19:43.380
off they'll realize that they made a

1:19:39.900,1:19:45.300
huge mistake but you know that's neither

1:19:43.380,1:19:47.670
here nor there I actually just I simply

1:19:45.300,1:19:49.650
just don't care about that project in

1:19:47.670,1:19:51.960
the sense that it's irrelevant I have no

1:19:49.650,1:19:54.179
use case for it I've never in six years

1:19:51.960,1:19:56.119
I've never found a use for it so I don't

1:19:54.179,1:19:59.869
use it

1:19:56.119,1:20:03.600
yeah I got interested in it early on I

1:19:59.869,1:20:07.290
read about it it seems so nice and so

1:20:03.600,1:20:09.330
interesting and had all these different

1:20:07.290,1:20:11.310
applications that it's very hard to

1:20:09.330,1:20:13.199
define up to this point I'm still not

1:20:11.310,1:20:15.719
sure what it's supposed to do other than

1:20:13.199,1:20:17.790
smart contracts which I can understand

1:20:15.719,1:20:21.630
but in terms of decentralized

1:20:17.790,1:20:24.270
applications okay what is their value

1:20:21.630,1:20:26.369
proposition and use case how are they

1:20:24.270,1:20:28.920
supposed to skill to actually compete

1:20:26.369,1:20:33.719
with the centralized solutions that we

1:20:28.920,1:20:38.790
already have and why does interim skill

1:20:33.719,1:20:41.760
in a way that makes it redundant to call

1:20:38.790,1:20:44.130
itself decentralize I mean we might as

1:20:41.760,1:20:47.070
well switch to EOS which actually

1:20:44.130,1:20:50.100
supports more what do you call them

1:20:47.070,1:20:54.060
programming languages and it's easy for

1:20:50.100,1:20:56.639
developers to move their projects to the

1:20:54.060,1:20:58.230
protocol and make them so what they call

1:20:56.639,1:21:01.530
decentralized but they have just a few

1:20:58.230,1:21:03.869
blocked reducers who are like the

1:21:01.530,1:21:09.360
curators of the network and they keep on

1:21:03.869,1:21:11.270
validating the transactions yeah yeah I

1:21:09.360,1:21:15.179
mean I think that a very invasive

1:21:11.270,1:21:17.429
competitors because if they're trying to

1:21:15.179,1:21:19.080
compete on that front then they have to

1:21:17.429,1:21:20.699
compete with all those altcoins and

1:21:19.080,1:21:24.060
there's gonna be more outgoing in the

1:21:20.699,1:21:26.250
future so I don't see it as a long term

1:21:24.060,1:21:29.010
store value or viable project for

1:21:26.250,1:21:31.520
personally I think it's it's maybe let a

1:21:29.010,1:21:35.130
lot of people to me down the wrong path

1:21:31.520,1:21:37.260
I don't care if they use it I highly

1:21:35.130,1:21:39.840
recommend companies do not use their

1:21:37.260,1:21:43.349
technology at all it's a huge waste of

1:21:39.840,1:21:44.550
time and I don't know any I don't really

1:21:43.349,1:21:46.200
know of any companies out there that are

1:21:44.550,1:21:48.120
they're using this

1:21:46.200,1:21:50.490
in a way that is actually generating any

1:21:48.120,1:21:52.950
real use like where actual customers are

1:21:50.490,1:21:54.720
actually using it because frankly it

1:21:52.950,1:21:57.500
doesn't really solve the problems that

1:21:54.720,1:22:00.990
people keep claiming it solves so I

1:21:57.500,1:22:02.430
think we have been talking for over an

1:22:00.990,1:22:05.220
hour and I'm not sure how many people

1:22:02.430,1:22:07.740
will be listening up to this point but I

1:22:05.220,1:22:10.110
want to ask you a question which

1:22:07.740,1:22:12.630
concerns your vision on Bitcoin and

1:22:10.110,1:22:14.790
where do you think that we will be 10

1:22:12.630,1:22:18.780
years from now in terms of technology

1:22:14.790,1:22:24.390
and what makes you most excited in terms

1:22:18.780,1:22:25.620
of development for Bitcoin that's yeah

1:22:24.390,1:22:27.600
that's a great question I know you asked

1:22:25.620,1:22:28.560
to just John curb all of that question

1:22:27.600,1:22:36.330
you might have asked all your guests

1:22:28.560,1:22:39.870
that question B I think that store value

1:22:36.330,1:22:41.580
is incredibly important you know the in

1:22:39.870,1:22:44.580
ten years from now I really have no idea

1:22:41.580,1:22:46.350
where bitcoins going to be because where

1:22:44.580,1:22:48.720
it has come in just two years is

1:22:46.350,1:22:51.180
phenomenal and what we're seeing right

1:22:48.720,1:22:54.930
now with new technologies that are

1:22:51.180,1:22:58.020
coming out to enable really didn't able

1:22:54.930,1:22:59.220
like a lighting network I think that the

1:22:58.020,1:23:02.040
Lightning Network offers a whole new

1:22:59.220,1:23:04.620
business model I'm really bullish on

1:23:02.040,1:23:06.390
that in the short term in terms of

1:23:04.620,1:23:08.340
enabling a whole new set of applications

1:23:06.390,1:23:10.620
which we're already seeing developers

1:23:08.340,1:23:13.440
using the light network in ways to do to

1:23:10.620,1:23:15.740
do micro payment applications and I

1:23:13.440,1:23:18.390
think we don't actually fully understand

1:23:15.740,1:23:20.610
what how revolutionary it's gonna be

1:23:18.390,1:23:21.750
until we're a little bit later stages of

1:23:20.610,1:23:24.870
the protocol and so there's more

1:23:21.750,1:23:28.980
features that people need so but ten

1:23:24.870,1:23:31.320
years from now I see I definitely see

1:23:28.980,1:23:34.980
Bitcoin being worth a a lot more money

1:23:31.320,1:23:38.850
I see Bitcoin mining becoming becoming

1:23:34.980,1:23:42.000
incredibly difficult because over time

1:23:38.850,1:23:44.340
the with mining the the efficiencies can

1:23:42.000,1:23:46.290
that are squeezed out of new hardware

1:23:44.340,1:23:50.820
gets slimmer and slimmer so it gets

1:23:46.290,1:23:53.450
harder to produce Asics that they can

1:23:50.820,1:23:57.450
compete with you know they can that have

1:23:53.450,1:23:59.130
large gains in hash rate you know

1:23:57.450,1:23:59.710
essentially we are pushing Moore's law

1:23:59.130,1:24:02.290
to the win

1:23:59.710,1:24:03.970
like mining power mining Asics are

1:24:02.290,1:24:05.950
pushing the limits of computer

1:24:03.970,1:24:09.690
technology so I think it'll be very

1:24:05.950,1:24:12.340
interesting to see as the margins on

1:24:09.690,1:24:15.340
incremental gains can continues to

1:24:12.340,1:24:17.530
diminish I think we will see Bitcoin

1:24:15.340,1:24:20.380
mining will become much more a function

1:24:17.530,1:24:25.030
of power companies and power people who

1:24:20.380,1:24:25.510
have access to very cheap and stranded

1:24:25.030,1:24:29.020
power

1:24:25.510,1:24:32.410
so like hydroelectric power stranded gas

1:24:29.020,1:24:34.750
power you know solar energy so I'm

1:24:32.410,1:24:38.890
really interested to see in ten years

1:24:34.750,1:24:41.470
like sort of how how Bitcoin mining will

1:24:38.890,1:24:44.440
get integrated into power production

1:24:41.470,1:24:46.720
around around the world I think that the

1:24:44.440,1:24:49.330
that you know so yeah so I guess in ten

1:24:46.720,1:24:50.770
years from now I see I do see big going

1:24:49.330,1:24:53.590
mining becoming an integral part of

1:24:50.770,1:24:57.220
power production economics and I also

1:24:53.590,1:24:59.290
see I just see a whole I see the world

1:24:57.220,1:25:01.000
using Bitcoin I see government's using

1:24:59.290,1:25:03.550
Bitcoin ten years from now I see central

1:25:01.000,1:25:05.380
government's hoarding Bitcoin I see

1:25:03.550,1:25:08.200
companies using Bitcoin as a hedge and

1:25:05.380,1:25:09.880
store value I think that we don't I just

1:25:08.200,1:25:11.790
think it's really hard to know but those

1:25:09.880,1:25:14.560
are the things that I see in the future

1:25:11.790,1:25:17.770
well that's a very optimistic of you and

1:25:14.560,1:25:20.110
I guess it'll be also useful right now

1:25:17.770,1:25:22.950
to mention how you can be contacted on

1:25:20.110,1:25:25.660
Twitter and how people can read your

1:25:22.950,1:25:28.870
articles because you clearly have a lot

1:25:25.660,1:25:31.690
of insights and you're infused should be

1:25:28.870,1:25:35.980
read and spread across the enthusiasts

1:25:31.690,1:25:39.280
of Bitcoin yeah thank you

1:25:35.980,1:25:42.820
yeah Mike Twitter is a brick string tech

1:25:39.280,1:25:45.490
right now you know I came across that

1:25:42.820,1:25:49.510
that name it was kind of a meme that was

1:25:45.490,1:25:52.030
passed around because a game show was it

1:25:49.510,1:25:54.670
was using it and I thought that's a

1:25:52.030,1:25:59.350
great that's a great sort of way to sort

1:25:54.670,1:26:01.150
of make fun of the blockchain industry

1:25:59.350,1:26:02.980
or the blockchain narrative you know at

1:26:01.150,1:26:04.960
the end of the day I think that if

1:26:02.980,1:26:06.910
you're gonna be in this space you should

1:26:04.960,1:26:09.970
be doing it because you want to have fun

1:26:06.910,1:26:13.109
and I also think that you know in the

1:26:09.970,1:26:14.820
that also pseudonym and anonymity

1:26:13.109,1:26:17.550
is an important thing I don't

1:26:14.820,1:26:19.260
necessarily see you know a reason to

1:26:17.550,1:26:20.729
like use always use your real name and

1:26:19.260,1:26:22.019
everything and part of being on the

1:26:20.729,1:26:24.419
Internet is sort of having an identity

1:26:22.019,1:26:27.059
as well that isn't necessarily your own

1:26:24.419,1:26:28.889
identity and you can have in many

1:26:27.059,1:26:30.300
different types of identities but yeah I

1:26:28.889,1:26:32.999
would love for people to come read my

1:26:30.300,1:26:36.479
articles if you just go to brick string

1:26:32.999,1:26:39.629
dot tech on your web browser it'll

1:26:36.479,1:26:43.709
redirect to my medium blog and you can

1:26:39.629,1:26:45.769
read my articles there ok mr. brick

1:26:43.709,1:26:47.849
string who wants to remain anonymous

1:26:45.769,1:26:50.809
thank you very much for this interview

1:26:47.849,1:26:53.399
and I'm happy that we got to talk

1:26:50.809,1:26:56.820
thanks it looks like at some points in

1:26:53.399,1:26:59.820
the future we can just have more

1:26:56.820,1:27:02.399
discussions as you know we find out more

1:26:59.820,1:27:04.889
we make new discoveries we have many

1:27:02.399,1:27:08.519
more events and phenomena which take

1:27:04.889,1:27:11.669
place and our views adjust accordingly

1:27:08.519,1:27:13.649
and I hope that I will be having this

1:27:11.669,1:27:16.739
podcast for a long time even though

1:27:13.649,1:27:18.300
financially speaking I'm I'm taking a

1:27:16.739,1:27:20.939
loss with this one I could be making

1:27:18.300,1:27:22.709
money well I'm recording this but it's

1:27:20.939,1:27:25.289
useful at the same time for me to learn

1:27:22.709,1:27:28.709
new stuff new insights but this was a

1:27:25.289,1:27:32.010
long Bona log that probably nobody will

1:27:28.709,1:27:32.999
listen to so thank you very much yeah

1:27:32.010,1:27:34.590
you've done a great job with your

1:27:32.999,1:27:38.159
podcasts thanks so much for having me on

1:27:34.590,1:27:41.070
I tried but just you know if I get any

1:27:38.159,1:27:44.189
donations or this particular episode

1:27:41.070,1:27:48.239
you're going to get 50% of everything in

1:27:44.189,1:27:50.629
BTC and you can use it for anything that

1:27:48.239,1:27:54.119
you like it's part of your sovereignty

1:27:50.629,1:27:59.189
thanks so much fun your time is valuable

1:27:54.119,1:28:01.309
so good bye good bye bye thanks so much

1:27:59.189,1:28:01.309
again

1:28:07.410,1:28:09.470
you