With his two films, “Bitcoin: The End of Money as We Know It” (2015) and “Cryptopia: Bitcoin, Blockchains, and the Future of the Internet” (2020), writer, director and producer Torsten Hoffmann paints a Campbellian epic journey during which Bitcoin is the hero and everybody else is either a helper or an obstacle that must be overcome.
If the first film was about the ideals of our hero and the ways in which Bitcoin can change the world, the sequel presents a triumphant protagonist that went through the trial of fire and must now face the challenge of duplication. In “Cryptopia: Bitcoin, Blockchains, and the Future of the Internet“, we are introduced to a world where Bitcoin reigns supreme and everyone else is trying to steal its brand or its qualities.
Roger Ver, who used to be called “Bitcoin Jesus”, is now a “Bitcoin Judas” who surrounds himself with false prophets and prays to an ideologically-convenient graven image.
Craig Wright, who calls himself the inventor of Bitcoin, tries to compete with a centralized fork for which patents are constantly filed – thus contradicting the spirit of Bitcoin itself.
Yet these foes have already been defeated by Bitcoin and they’re left behind in the dust complaining about their expectations. Roger and Craig are to Bitcoin what Jabba the Hutt was to Luke Skywalker in “The Return of the Jedi”: worthy foes who presented their challenge, but were only stepping stones in the hero’s journey. To maintain the metaphor, Bitcoin is now in its journey to defeat the most evil forces of the universe and help the freedom-loving rebel movement live peacefully and without fear for any financial Death Star.
If the first film presented a Bitcoin that challenged the status quo but was mostly ignored by governments and state actors, in “Cryptopia” the situation has dramatically changed. Some of the world’s most renown economists, investors, and politicians talk about this unique financial phenomenon and share their opinions on what Bitcoin can mean for the future of our money.
This time around, Bitcoin’s enemies aren’t just insiders and former supporters who have decided to turn their backs against it or attack it with poorly-made clones. They are powerful and influential people who dislike the threat that a decentralized internet currency poses to their statuses.
And aside from inferior yet distracting Bitcoin clones, we also see new inventions that take the convenient parts from Bitcoin to create odd centralized organisms. A significant chunk from “#CryptopiaFilm: Bitcoin, Blockchains, and the Future of the Internet” is about Ethereum and the so-called “blockchain industry”.
Yet Torsten Hoffmann manages to capture the essence of this movement by highlighting the questionable decentralization and drawing parallels to the people who wanted to build private versions of the internet in the 1990s. Bitcoin is our modern TCP-IP, and some individuals and institutions seem to be much more concerned about creating centralized networks that serve their own interests.
We get to see the aftermath of the 2017-2018 ICO mania where a staggering majority of “disruptive” and “decentralizing” projects have been proven to be scams or unsustainable delusions, and we are also invited to reflect on the future of this “Web 3.0”.
Through it all, Bitcoin prevails and reigns supreme. Its success is so great and so unexpected that everybody is trying to attack it or replace it. Yet our Campballian hero continues the journey untainted in principles and undefeated in battle. And the more Bitcoin exists, the more people adopt it, and therefore the stronger it gets.
“Cryptopia: Bitcoin, Blockchains, and the Future of the Internet” is now available for worldwide streaming. You can watch it on the official website for about $5, and it’s definitely the kind of film that starts conversations. Show it to your parents or friends, and they will definitely become curious about Bitcoin and start asking questions. And if you want to celebrate Bitcoin’s victory over all the foes it has faced so far and remember all the obstacles along the way, you will definitely enjoy watching Torsten Hoffmann’s sequel.
Listen to Torsten Hoffmann talk about his new film on iTunes and Spotify!
Time Stamps:
00:47 – Introduction
2:17 – Ticket prices and how the interviewees have changed since the last documentary (Bitcoin: The End of Money As We Know It)
4:18 – Approaching Roger Ver and remaining objective in presenting the scaling debate
6:55 – The explanatory animations in the documentary and reaching newbies
9:00 – The documentary’s 3 chapters
11:26 – Why maximalists should pay more attention to the film before dismissing it
12:00 – Roger Ver going from Bitcoin Jesus to Bitcoin Judas
14:30 – Travelling around the world to film interviews
14:55 – Xapo’s huge underground military storage facility
17:40 – Working on the film for 6 years
18:30 – Why watching the documentary in the cinema is a different experience
19:15 – Why Bitcoin documentaries made by community members are better
20:31 – The hero’s journey
21:00 – The chapter about the history of the internet
22:08 – Mining innovation and using the cheapest kind of energy
23:54 – Why Bitcoin helps make energy more efficient
24:34 – Managing to distinguish between Bitcoin and scams in a way that doesn’t create confusion
25:17 – Interviewing the inventor of ERC20 and confronting him with the scams he enabled
28:00 – Another ICO mania?
29:25 – The Ponzi psychology and human greed
30:20 – Is “Cryptopia” a conversation starter for nocoiners?
32:20 – What would Torsten change to his documentary?
33:45 – What would Vlad add to the documentary?
34:15 – Starting the project from the Bitcoin “Civil War” and removing parts to make it all less confusing
35:15 – Scaling Bitcoin
36:49 – Bitmain and SegWit
37:28 – The Andreas Antonopoulos quote that didn’t make the final cut
38:25 – Should altcoins exist?
39:09 – Why maximalism is fascinating to Torsten Hoffmann
40:26 – Why Ethereum sucks
42:40 – Why BS V sucks
43:39 – A certain character who lives in London, files patents, and claims to have invented Bitcoin. Why does he belong in this film?
46:08 – Gigabyte blocks are a myth
47:53 – Interviewing Calvin?
49:21 – How was the feedback for “Cryptopia”?
51:15 – A newbie would have sucked at producing a documentary like this
52:39 – Why do projects need blockchains?
54:41 – DHL has been tracking items for years without blockchains
56:08 – Closing notes
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50% of funds donated to this address will be redirected to Torsten’s project to allow him to produce more documentaries about Bitcoin’s journey. He is definitely a gifted historian who brings useful contributions to the community, so he deserves to receive support for his work.
American HODL is one of the most remarkable and prominent sat stackers in the Bitcoin space. As a successful professional who makes enough USD to afford investments, he often maxes out his CashApp BTC purchase limit. On average, he buys about 1 million satoshis per day and then brags about increasing the scarcity by HODLing.
In this episode, he talks about first getting into Bitcoin, the true meaning behind the 6.15 BTC, and why one should seek to accumulate as many satoshis as possible. The recording must be the most adult-oriented of all Bitcoin Takeover episodes, so make sure that no kids are in the room while American HODL talks about eternal riches and big titty bitches.
The American HODLer (no pun intended) also does a lengthy Q&A with Twitter inquiries and spontaneously decides to stack 3 million satoshis just for fun.
The interview is now available on YouTube. It’s accompanied by “Screaming Mimi”, a marvelous tease for the BTBs that come into your life once you accumulate 6.15 BTC.
The episode is also available on Spotify and iTunes.
36a8PLedHGnSjV4YzwZ5eBkkjgGrv6kLyk Donate to the podcast and 50% of the amount gets sent to Ross Ulbricht’s defense.
Support the Bitcoin Takeover Podcast!
Starting this season, 25% of all donations will go to the Free Ross campaign, to help Ross Ulbricht get a second chance. The draconian sentence that he received should concern every bitcoiner around the world, as the government which poses as a champion of liberty gives a double life sentence for indirect and non-violent crimes involving Bitcoin.
It’s a slippery slope that should concern us all, regardless of the jurisdiction under which we find ourselves. The case of Ross Ulbricht has set a dangerous precedent all around the world, as lesser democratic countries can simply prosecute bitcoiners under similar charges and with outcomes that are just as harsh.
If Ross was to receive clemency or at least a second trial with another judge by taking into account the new evidence, the decision would get noticed by judges and politicians worldwide. Whether we like it or not, the USA is an example for the rest of the world and we can actually try to make a difference in a positive sense.
As usual, 50% of BTC earnings will be sent to the guest. In this situation, Colin will be rewarded for his time, effort, and knowledge.
Hello and welcome to the Bitcoin takeover podcast. I am Vlad, and my guest today is American HODL who used to be known as American HODL for, but got banned on Twitter. And now he’s HODL American. You can follow him for, I guess, five more days until he gets banned once again and comes back with some other accounts. And this episode is sponsored by my friend who has this business with audio consulting for podcast. The name of the business is ADL. It’s a new audio consulting firm that accepts Bitcoin and they offer a full range of services like editing, audio restoration, troubleshooting, recording, and consulting, and you can visit their website, which is A U D L audio.com with no dash. So A U D L A U D I O.com or more information. And he also has an email contact at contact at audl dot com who works in Los Angeles with some big time musicians.
But if she wants to move full time to producing Bitcoin podcasts, if you want race down for your podcast, you should totally call Hodl, which sounds like a cold name. So hello, American HODL. It’s nice to hear you after this adult commercial. Vlad it’s a, it’s great to be on the bike. We’ve been trying to set this up for a long time and then we were supposed to do it yesterday. And I got, I got banned again for the fifth time. Fourth time. I don’t know. I can’t, I can’t keep track. I know. I mean, I was looking for you and then I saw that there’s no chat record on Twitter. And I said two minutes, what’s wrong. Because I remember we spoke the day before that, the time for the podcast, the reason I keep getting kicked out, people keep asking me, they’re like, what do you keep doing? And get kicked off Twitter. And it’s because I have oppositional defiant disorder, which just means I can’t
Accept authority. So I know that there’s Twitter has rules and you know, these rules are very leftist and left-leaning. So if I just keep using language that they feel is, you know, homophobic or transphobic or racist, then I’ll just keep getting suspended. And it’s not that I am any of those things. Like I’m not, I’m not homophobic. I’m not transphobic. I’m not racist, but I just hate, I hate rules and authority. So I can’t help myself when I know there’s a system in place. I just want to keep poking and prodding the system until I break it. And that’s what continues to happen to me.
I think Bitcoiners in general are the type of kids in the back of the class who are like, Hey, that doesn’t make any fucking sense. Like, I’m sure we were all disruptive types like that. I know I was growing up. And I think it’s important to hold on to that, you know, sort of fuck you attitude for lack of a better word, because when you’re, when you’re young, when you’re in kindergarten or, you know, I don’t know what they call it in Romania, but when you’re, when you’re little and you go to school and they tell you to draw a picture of a, like, let’s say a bear and you draw your own version of a bear, they give you an app and they say, that’s not what a bear looks like. Right? And so it’s the kids that say, no, this, this is my version of a bear. And they, they maintain their fuck you attitude who actually keep hold of their creativity. And that ability to question things is I think it’s, I think it’s very important and we should be instilling it in children instead of going in the opposite direction, which we often do.
I agree, I guess the most important kind of education is that of learning how to think and how to question whatever you’re learning, as opposed to accepting everything that you’ll learn as being valid, because it comes from some sort of authority.
Yeah, very much so. And I, you know, that’s obviously the big why at the center of a Bitcoin is none of it. I think none of us had ever really thought about money very in depth. And then Bitcoin comes along and you’re like, Oh shit, none of this makes any sense. And then you go deeper and deeper and deeper. And you find out that the rabbit hole is, is basically endless. And you know, that’s where the journey started for me, at least I’m, I’m sure it was similar for you.
This very scientific framework, which they designed to analyze politics. But I guess also the presidency of Donald Trump has helped just take away the curtains and realize that it’s all a shit show and it’s not become a shit show. It’s just more obvious now than it was before.
Right. So when the, you know, the central bank types are just like Donald Trump, because they’re just making it up as they go, at least with Trump, he’s so stupid. He can’t hide it. You know, these guys that are smart, they hide it very well. And you, you kind of, you know, you listen to them when you don’t know what very much yourself and you think. Well, okay, obviously these men are very smart and very well studied and there must be some, some great reasoning behind all these negative interest rates and all this continuous printing of money and raising the debt ceiling. And then you find out now they’re just winging it. Just like Donald Trump is,
Oh, I remember something which I read from Vitel with Darren said that the purpose of 2% annual inflation is also psychological. So employees get the impression that they get a raise every year and they get better. They work, which is done. Yep.
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But you know, it has a reverse effect that nobody ever talks about, which is sticker shock. You know, Keynesianism is so good for the economy. How come people spend less and less money as they age it’s because prices keep going up. And your point of reference shifts. So the car that costs $6,000 when you were a child now costs $60,000 and that affects consumer behavior. So when you’re, you know, when you get to be elderly, like beyond 50, you stop spending as much money.
I never taught about this, but it makes so much sense. That’s why my mother, when I talked to her, he has a different reference and a different way of understanding money. And whenever I tell her, Hey, look, my, my buddy’s sneakers. And she’s going to be like, how much did they cost? And I basically evaluate the cost in reasonable terms for her. And usually it’s twice as low, twice as cheap meaning.
No, totally. I think, I think the world is always just in a fight between top-down architecture of systems and emergent phenomena. Nobody, you know? Yes, yes. The Toshi coded Bitcoin and invented Bitcoin, but what’s happening after that initial zero to one moment that innovation is all an emergent phenomenon, bubbling upwards. Whereas people like the, who think they’re smarter than everybody else think that they can architect a system that will basically be perfect and have no problems. And, you know, I think I’m smarter than everybody too, but you know, I’m humble enough to know that I’m not, I get it wrong often. And these, these types of people like the central bankers are like the Pollock or like, you know, any of the other shit pointers. They, they basically think that they’re going to be able to prevent black swans and you can’t prevent black swans because that’s an unknown, unknown. Right? You don’t know what you don’t know. Now we have unknown unknowns in Bitcoin too. But in my view, they’re mainly positive things that are going to emerge upwards and not negative things that are going to come crashing down on the system.
Yeah. Look, look, just go on Twitter and type into lab Bitcoin. And there’s a bunch, there’s a bunch of stuff he said about it before. And he made a lot, I think he made a lot of money off of it in 17, who hasn’t right. Well to lab is super rich you know, and, and incredibly smart. And he’s a disagreeable asshole, just like all the rest of us. So he fits in perfectly with the big pointers. You know,
Also about what you’re saying about, you know, these types of people who think they have it all figured out and they’re going to convince the rest of the world that they’re smart. So they should be followed. I read something which was written by Nick Sabo just today. I think it was retweeted by Donald MacIntyre, who is a business associate of his. And it basically said that scientists and science in general are part of the government. Generally you have these people who get funded by government funds and grants and research project. And it’s hard for them to think outside this framework, they’re being taught from the very first years of their education about what is wrong and what is right. And that when they become researchers and they try to apply some kind of methodology to whatever questions they’re asking, they basically just reaffirm what they have been taught. And they don’t take much time being Socratic in the sense that they ask questions and they try to be contrarian. They reaffirm whatever scientific biases are being fed to them.
Yeah. Sciences. Yes. I agree with that statement and that sentiment. And also there’s a very natural inclination in the sciences, even when you don’t have government are interference or regulation to not champion the ideas of fellow scientists while they’re alive. So let’s say you, you started your you know, your work and your career, and you started researching into, you know, this area and it got more narrow as you went along. And then somebody else who did the inverse of what you did it, you started to get the growing sense that they were right. Right. You can’t exactly champion their idea because it makes you look weak and it makes you look stupid. And this is a human fallibility thing. Whereas when a, another scientist has died, you can now bring their ideas to the forefront because they basically, they don’t get the credit and you get all the credit for championing that idea. And that’s just a very human thing that we see repeated over time. So science is a very slow process, just like, you know, just like Bitcoin is because it’s an emergent phenomenon. All emergent phenomena are going to be slow and you can make it even slower with government regulation, which is basically what they’ve done.
I agree with private armies and some other concepts, but I mean, I don’t think everything should be private. I’m okay with some kind of neutral place that is hypothetically not parties and to the interests of a small group of citizens, even though they might need,
I think what we have to ask ourselves, as we know, the government is always going to grow and it’s always going to centralize and it’s always going to be a centralizing force. Right. And I struggle with it just like you do, like, you know, especially because we were just talking about how the scientists are brought up in their own dogmatic reality where they can’t see what’s around them. Well, we’re just like that because we’ve never lived in a world without government intervention or interference. So we can’t really fully conceptualize of a world that would exist without it, especially because the time that we live in is the time where the global state is bigger than it has ever been in the history of humanity. Nobody’s ever seen a behemoth quite like this. So I think it’s very hard for us to conceptualize. So I like that. I like to try and not say definitively that the government is good at this, or is bad at that. Although they seem to be terrible at everything.
But I think, I think knowing that you’re inside a dogma is very important. You know, it’s like, it’s very hard to talk to your friends who are no corners because they’re still in the matrix. Right. And you’ve taken the red pill and you’ve seen for yourself, you know, and you went through the hero’s journey where you had to, all your muscles were atrophied. You know, you woke up on the Nebuchadnezzar and Morpheus was staring you in the face being like, Oh shit, it’s real now. Right. You know, they haven’t gone through any of that journey. So you go back into the matrix because somebody who’s quote unquote woke and you try and tell them what it is, but nobody can be told what the matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. And so figuring out how to get people to go on that hero’s journey when most people just don’t want to take any responsibility for their own life. God, that’s such a hard question that I ask myself all the time and I never come up with good answers.
So, so far we have had a Joseph Campbell reference. And before that NASA Taleb reference, and now we’re talking about the matrix and we are supposed to have some kind of debate about the matrix, right?
Oh, that’s right. Because me and you were arguing on Twitter about whether agent Smith or what, whether a Neo was needed at the end of the matrix to reset the system. And my, my point, my contention was that Smith had already taken over the matrix in revolutions and he’s the entire matrix. And Neo goes to the machine city and he bargains with the machines because he knows that he’s the opposite piece of Smith. And he’s the only one that can stop it. So he basically Neo hard resets the system. But it’s like, they’re joined, you know, so I don’t know if you can say that Smith or Neo does it, but without Neo’s interference, the system would not have reset.
I don’t know about that. I mean, the matrix at the time when Smith had taken over was just his new system, which was being reset by default because he was everything. So he was building a different society. And when Neil Rosette said, we’re not sure if agent’s med is completely gone, or if he just lost part of his power and he’s going to attempt to retake it, reclaim it. What we know is that the architect has been watching all along and we’re not sure if agents may have taken over him, but he took over the Oracle, which we saw.
Right? Yeah. The first, Oh man, the first matrix is just, it’s one of the best pieces of art. It’s probably the best film of the last 30 years bar. None. I can’t think of any that are better.
It’s very well made. And not just in terms of cinematography, it’s just telling the story of Plato’s cave, but in a way that’s relatable to people who are into technology and this idea of virtual reality and living inside the dream. I mean, inception also did a great job of portraying this kind of universe.
I like inception. I like inception too. Not as much as I like the prestige or the dark Knight or some of Nolan’s better films in my opinion. But I agree. I agree.
Well, that’s the, that’s the interesting thing is like, I think because of the internet, the reason that we can all align is cause we kind of grew up with similar cultures. You know, at least at least pop culture was very similar, I think for all of us. Cause you know, a lot of it is American. I’m assuming you saw a lot of American movies when you were a kid all the time. Right. Because they’re the best movers. They’re the biggest, yeah. The biggest and the best. And they have the biggest budgets and the most money, you know, it’s, it’s interesting though, but it’s interesting too, because you know, you’re in Romania a place I’ve never been. I have no cultural understanding about, I literally, I literally don’t know anything about Romania and me and you have a lot of shared interest and shared touchpoints that we can connect on, which is just fascinating.
You know, in so many different ways. I mean, when we were kids, right. You know, you’re, you’re me and you’re on the same edge. So we’re still of that generation where we got to see the internet be born. And I probably remember it a little more than you do, but it was pretty crazy to grow up in the analog world and then see the transition to the digital world. And I, I almost feel like we’re keepers of the flame in a sort of way where you have read that book, the giver, you know, that book in, in the giver, you know, basically society, you know, takes away all their bad memories and they transfer it to one person and that’s, that’s the kid and they, they pick a kid and then they give the kid the cultural memory of the world’s you sort of terrible things that have happened. They made it into a really shitty movie. It’s not very good, but the book is good. And I S I sort of feel like we are that generation where we have the memory of how things used to be. Cause when you talk to young kids, you know, who are like 1920, I saw your, I saw you, you were saying, you were talking to talking to younger girls and you couldn’t understand them.
This is why I’m glad I’m married. Cause when I talked to them, I’m just like, Hey, when are you going to shut the fuck up? Because now would be a great time.
I wish I found the right girl, but I haven’t so far powers. Men are much dumber in this sense. So when we get a girlfriend, we’re like, Oh, this is okay. I can imagine myself marrying this woman, but something goes wrong along the way.
Yeah. It’s sort of, you know, for guys it’s more like a for girls, I think it’s more the person. And for guys, I think it’s more of the time in your life. So you may be getting to the time in your life where you’re like, you know, ready to settle down, be with a girl or, you know, I don’t know.
I don’t know either, but I wanted to say that Bitcoin in my view is only a digital currency because it had to be in order for it to not be confiscated. But the idea I feel I get has grown and has been around for a long time. I guess 16th century really wanted to have Bitcoin because they would find gold and treasurers and britches and big titty bitches. They had no way to go back to their countries and spend it, but are getting arrested. So they had to sail at sea. They had to bury their treasures. They had to go to America. And that’s why some cities on the East coast of the United States are still developed because they basically benefited from the goal of pirates.
Yep. No. Yeah, totally. I mean, in a lot of ways, I think we’ve been living through this hundred year period from like the early 19 hundreds to the early two thousands, a centralization that was very unnatural in, in the historical framework that we’re used to, you know, you look at things like having the, having the news media be controlled or having the state be heavily controlled or having money be controlled by the state. These are all very new, recent, strange developments that didn’t occur in the vast, you know, time span of human history. So I think in some ways, while what we’re doing is very new and revolutionary, but in some ways we’re just going back to the
Also Bitcoiners seem to like the analog world a bunch more, even though we transact where the kind of currency that no is perceive as being new technology, which is digital and it’s not tangible, it’s hard for them to perceive how it works and to understand what a full note is and why we use it. But basically we are using digital gold in our minds. We use something that cannot be confiscated and cannot be censored. And that’s the whole value proposition of Bitcoin as opposed to salary payments.
I can’t remember if this is a real a real story from history or if this is just a construct of, I think it was Milton Friedman, but somebody had the idea, I think it was Friedman, but basically there’s an Island and on the Island or a series of very large boulders that can’t be moved and every day ownership of those boulders changes and all the participants of the Island note the chain. And that’s basically, that’s what Bitcoin is just in digital form. Okay. Cause if you think about it, your, your Bitcoin doesn’t move, you know, your Bitcoin is just always on the network and the cloud and your key is your, your accessibility to that, to that Bitcoin. Right? Right. So like in a way, these are, these are just giant stones in the sky and the ledger is noting the change of ownership of these stones, but the stones themselves never move.
Sometimes I like to think that Bitcoin as a currency needs the existence of cash as a way of at least until hyper Bitcoin sensation, you need to do this kind of quick swap that doesn’t get recorded in any bank ledger. You just go exchange Bitcoins for cash. That’s it, it’s the most private form of payments ever.
Well, I’m seeing a lot of senses. Like it almost feels like we are a parasite on the global network of, of beyond the legacy systems. Right. And that we’re just soaking up their blood supply until at some point they’re going to ride on the back of us once we become large enough. And there’s gotta some sort of a weird
Transitionary period there, this isn’t an idea I’ve really fleshed out very far, but you know, there’s obviously Bitcoin wouldn’t exist without a Fiat monetary system, right. We’d just be still on gold and then we’d have some digital form of gold probably, or, you know, we’d have the Outback gold and then a digital form of feedback gold. So we needed the system to be this fucked up, to get the invention that is Bitcoin. And so from the very inception, I think there’s a sort of symbiosis there.
I agree with this. And I know that Saifedean is touring with a new presentation, which is called how to kill Bitcoin or something like that. And it basically the best way to kill Bitcoin and make it basically pointless would be to return to the gold standard, which is never going to happen.
Yeah. And you know, I think Bitcoiners would reject a gold standard because we know about the problems that the gold has. And we know about the history of the centralization of gold. And we are going to assume that that’s going to happen again. Whereas we don’t know, we don’t know what happens next for big. And you know, this is where people like to come in and say, well, it’s going to get centralized because of this or that. And we just don’t know, we haven’t gone through this process yet with Bitcoin, we’ve been through it with gold for 5,000 years and it continually gets recentralized.
There has been so much speculation with Bitcoin getting more centralized and back in 2014, 2015, Gavin Andresen was bragging about it by saying, Oh, I’m going to make Bitcoin more centralized. And that hasn’t happened because the community basically understood what Bitcoin stands for. And no kind of benevolent dictator was able to maneuver the direction Bitcoin headed.
I don’t, I don’t think we should ever let Gavin forget the fact that he was fooled by Craig Wright in front of the world in the most embarrassing way possible. I mean, if anybody ever takes him seriously after that little stunt with the BBC ever again it’s it’s to their own detriment.
I think there’s more to it than that because if Craig Wright wanted to prove the ownership of the coins, he could just sign a message on the Genesis block and then could take a look at it. But Devin actually went to London and was fooled by a laptop, which was zoned by Craig Wright. And he was able to forge whatever evidence that he showed. So what’s the point of traveling to meet somebody and then a test and confirm that he said, Toshi, if this is not part of some kind of setup or conspiracy,
Well, I think, I don’t know that that reads a little too much into it for me. I think that Gavin was just incredibly out of his depth and that he also didn’t really fully understand what Bitcoin was, which to be fair to Gavin, none of us did at the time, because like I said, it’s an emergent phenomenon, so we didn’t quite know what it was going to be. I mean, I fell for a lot of the same false narratives that I’m sure you fell for. And we all fell for, which is like, Oh, it’s a payment system. It’s for remittances, it’s spend to replace we’re banking, the unbanked, you know, all that kind of stuff. While we do help the unbanked and we give poor people a place to store their time. I don’t think Bitcoiners have really thought very hard about the last mile. You know, me and you were just talking about local Bitcoins before the show like that last mile of like going to, you know, actually exchange the Bitcoin into Fiat is that’s the whole thing. That’s the hard part. Everything else is easy, right? So it’s like a lot of these false narratives propagated. And I think Gavin, Gavin fell for a lot of them and a lot of people did and they spun up all coins, all sorts of crazy shit. And we’re still dealing with some of the consequences from some of those false narratives,
And all of his attempts were to increase the block size. That was the whole point. And to some extent, Bitcoin core supporters claimed that the plan was all along to increase the block size. And then they changed their opinion because they realize that we can live with one megabyte blocks and basically soft fork and improve the network to the, maybe the extent where transactions are smaller. So instead of making blocks bigger, why not bet more transactions into them, which is smart and conservative and elegant.
Of course they don’t because they’re going to, why do you need to verify each and every transaction on the network? Why do transactions no, they’re private or what the hell are you talking about? It’s a public ledger,
Right? Like it’s like, it’s like Roger bear. Like I don’t think Roger is a very smart guy. You know, I don’t think he has a very high IQ. I think he’s an average guy. I’m not going to call him a dumb guy, but I think he just fully misunderstands what’s happening. And you know, he also has a insane, like he’s literally insane. She has an insane ideological bent that leads him to believe that you need to get to medium of exchange before you get the store value, which doesn’t make any fucking sense. But you know, back in the day, we all had to go through these thought processes alone and on our own and figure them out for ourselves. And some people came to false conclusions. And, you know, in the case of like, let’s say, Roger, he totally destroyed his entire reputation, which I think he feels really sad about.
And he should probably feel sad because he had a lot of status in the Bitcoin community. I mean, people call them, people call them Bitcoin Jesus for anybody who doesn’t know back in the day on our big or make the big Roger worry about Bitcoin. And he didn’t sleep or eat for three days. And he was reborn as a, as a big winner. And people started calling him Bitcoin Jesus, and it was super cringy and I hated it every time it was sad. And we used the, you know, I think in general, even though we were also hardcore disagreeable, we probably had, we probably give too much leeway to people that are quote unquote in our camp or in our ingroup. And I know that I would root on Roger back in the day because he seemed like he was one of us. And then when the civil war happens, you know, it all falls apart, but we’re all mildly culpable for what was going on back then. I’m not saying we should let Roger back in either fuck him forever. But Gavin, through all of them,
I think Roger is very smart actually. And he knows he’s doing, and he’s very persuasive and she’s like a snake trying to project some kind of image and promote a brand in which he doesn’t really believe in because in mine and she holds a big stash of Bitcoins and he owns BitPay, which basically is a payments processor, which accepts BTC. He never gave up on it. He just did grace alternate. She tried to make bigger than the real Bitcoin, which he failed, but he still made a lot of money.
Well, and I guess from a rational actor standpoint, it makes sense to hold a one currency, you know, to hold Bitcoin while also trying to destroy Bitcoin with something that you can gain more control of. But reputationally, it’s not good to do that. And he’s obviously been dealing with the fallout from it since it happened. You know, I, I don’t agree with you that he’s smart. I think when I, when I say somebody is smart, that’s a pretty high bar. And I mean, people like Adam Back and Nick Szabo or Brian Bishop you know, Luke Dashjr, Peter Todd, I mean, those guys are, they’re like almost geniuses. All of them.
I don’t think he’s dumb. Dumb is the wrong I’m being hyperbolic. I think he’s average intelligence. I would, I would put his IQ at a hundred or 105, which is that’s an insult in the Bitcoin community. No, I’m kidding. I think that, you know, it’s, it’s obviously people are going to take offense to it, but I think Bitcoiners just tend to be a lot smarter on average than chick corners and no corners, you know, that’s fair. I mean, I always have conversations with, you know, low level Bitcoiners, you know, the plebes as they call themselves and behind the scenes, all of them are really highly intelligent, distinguished you know, working on a lot of them are working on wall street. It’s pretty crazy
As we got to talk. So a few of them, and I was surprised what I found, because when you think about plebs or plebes, it’s just a derogatory term, which basically says we are the ones who don’t really matter. And we’re part of the crowd and don’t do much interesting in this space, but they have very interesting backgrounds. And this whole third season has been about just random people on Twitter wanted to get on the podcast. And I said, yeah, why not? What can possibly go wrong? I don’t think I have been disappointed once. And there were people I have met for the first time. So we just spoke for 10 minutes and I said, okay, let’s do a podcast where the hell, what can go wrong?
Yeah. I think the, I think the Bitcoin plebe thing is a reaction to to 2017 and the shitcoin rate. And it’s sort of a, it’s a humbleness, you know, it’s saying I’m nobody, I don’t matter. I’m just here to help Bitcoin in any way I can. And I, you know, there’s also an anger that goes along with some of the Bitcoin plebe stuff, because you know, a lot of them were straight up, lied to back during the all coin run and they believed a lot of those lies and they’re rightfully angry about it because a lot of them got dumped on by people like can talk Buterin or a Joseph Lubin or Justin sun Tron, or any of the number of shit corners who popped up at that time.
I think one of the best examples is XRP the standard, but at some point had a huge army of supporters, which I’m not sure was organic. It might have been paid, but it doesn’t matter. You could not type anything bad about XRP without having them comment on your stuff and possibly having your accounts reported.
People. And, you know, cause there was something that happened like you’re right. A lot of them were bots. A lot of them are robots, but a lot of them were stupid. People who were following the robots and these stupid people had very normal jobs like landscaper and mechanic. And I don’t like seeing, I don’t like seeing them get taken advantage of at the same time I would try and educate them and they would tell me to fuck myself, you know, fuck them. I hope they lose their money and have to go back to working at the mechanic shop. Cause I’m not, I’m not going to do it again. This bubble, it’s not going to happen.
No. Back in December, 2017, I lost about 800 bucks sorting XRP. And I basically shorted it when it got close to $1. And I said to myself, there’s no way this can get any higher than this. I’m going to short it. And it went to free dollars. And I got wrecked.
I had a, I had a group of man, I had a group of people in a Facebook, a Facebook group when it was at $3 telling me it was going to go to a hundred dollars. And I was trying to explain how that’s impossible. And literally none of them would listen. And then they kicked me out of their little Facebook group.
Of course, they’re going to say, Oh, it happened to Bitcoin, but they don’t know how this works. They don’t look at the market cap. They don’t look at the supply, which is immense. I have no idea how it went to $1 in the first place,
Nuts. It’s crazy. And you know, it’s also, I also kind of am glad they all got racked because what they basically chose to do was bet against Bitcoin because you know, XRP, his whole thing is like, we’re, we’re a bank coin. We, we work with the banks. We want everything to stay the same. And they all chose to buy into that future because they thought Bitcoin was going to get crushed. So fuck that, you know, I’m, I’m, you know, I take it back. I’m glad they lost their money and I hope they live more.
Ripple. Yeah. Ripple was repurposed by XRP after or however, I don’t know how it works. I don’t, I don’t pay attention to it cause it’s a very obvious scheme where the corporation dumps on mechanics and landscapers. And I don’t know how they haven’t been shut down by the U S government. It’s crazy.
Elected officials who are basically slaves of whoever donates to their campaigns. And if they pick up a call from somebody who gave them a lot of money and basically put them into office, there’s no way for them to say no. And that can be the moment when they take a U-turn and they change their stances on various issues just because that’s what the money tells them to do.
Yep. Yeah. It’s, it’s sort of pathetic what has happened to America. And I think we’re seeing the end of America now the American empire, which you could argue is a, is a good for the global world. Although it’s going to create a path. If it ends too abruptly, it’s going to create a power vacuum. That’s going to be filled by an even worse actor by China or Russia. So I think the best we can hope for is the slow unwinding and the American experiment.
Because whatever he says, our president is going to be like, Oh yeah, sir, we’re going to do that. When Trump was saying, I want every member, state of the NATO to donate 1% of their GDP or their defense, our president was the first to sign the agreement and say, yeah, we’re going to do that. And there are such good friends because basically our president is this kind of dummy guy. He’s a yes, man, in relation to the United States, he does whatever Trump says and what they said. They made an agreement and Romania agreed to give more money to the U S military. And it’s not specifically us it’s NATO, but we know how that works. Right. And United States promise to be, to show solidarity to the struggles, to get visas for traveling and for work, which means nothing. It’s like, yeah, we understand that you have some issues when you get visa to come to our country, but we’re going to do something at some points. We’re not going to tell you what, we’re not going to tell you when, but we are solidary. So take it as a compliment.
Well, you know, the whole, the whole world is in solidarity with us, whether they want to be or not, right, because we’re the global reserve currency. And we dictate everything that happens in global affairs, unfortunately, which is pretty, it’s pretty crazy that you have one large actor, who’s basically a shadow empire dictating everything that around the globe. You want to talk about, you know, sort of strangling global trade, prosperity innovation, the American empire does all those things. That’s why, that’s why Bitcoiners are so focused on the federal reserve, you know, and yeah, there are Europe has their own and you know, there are other central banks across the world, but the federal reserve is the big boss for Bitcoin. That’s who we have to take down before. We’re going to see any, anything get better, I think,
Right? Let me ask you some questions from the audience, because I announced on August the 18th, that we would have this podcast and it’s been 12 days since then, beautiful Colin Harper who has been in the podcast and the previous episode, and also works for Bitcoin magazine, wants to know why you chose the American godick as your profile picture.
So American Gothic is a very famous painting. It’s, it’s worldwide famous. And it’s from it’s up to farmers in the American Midwest. And the story on the painter who painted it, forget how I forgot his name, but he basically traveled the world in search of interesting things to paint and then came home and found beauty in the ordinary, in these people who just lived this humble life and farm America’s farmlands. And I liked it for the idea of just huddling is a very humble act. You know, even though I, myself may not be a humble person and on Twitter, I am very like braggadocious. And you know, I’m always saying crazy shit. Huddling itself is humble by its very nature.
Also Fartface 2000. Once he is the second or the first recipient of hotline not starch. And he became famous back then. And right now he works on bit piggies, which is very interesting, but she wants to know your story because he says he’s a sucker for a good story.
Let me think, let me think about this, my story. All right. Well I’ll just tell you, I’ll just be honest. So I, you know, I grew up all over America. My father was a court high, high end corporate lawyer. We moved around a lot and you know, my mother was mentally ill. And so I, while my father was out being a, you know, a high end corporate attorney, I kind of had to take care of my mother and people would, you know, talk shit behind my back and behind my mother’s back. And I always felt very defensive over her. And so this gave me like a, a very early distrust of authority figures because a lot of the people that were doing I’m a little kid and a lot of the people that were doing this, you know, saying these things about me or about my mother were you know, adults.
And so from a very early age, I was just like, fuck these people basically. And then I grew up and that never went away. And I went through my entire life, you know, just being like, you can’t tell me nothing, fuck you. I’m going to do things the way I’m going to do them and trusting myself internally. So, you know, when I found Bitcoin, it was actually a very natural process for me because I wasn’t that ensconced in the dogmatism of American life you know, or what people were telling me at university. I just sort of have always thought for myself and been a self learner. And I think that’s where it all starts from it.
So I went to film school and so I have a, you know, so the reason we can go deep on film also is because I’m a big cinephile and I could talk about, I can talk about movies for all day. So I’m by training. I’m a filmmaker and I run a production company and that’s how I get a lot of my, my fiat to stack sats.
Impressive. I also have a brother who wanted to become a filmmaker, but he didn’t pass the entrance exam, which supposedly is very hard. And you only have about 20 positions, 20 scholarships every year and 200 or something. So chances were about percent
Film is very complex. It’s one of those things like Bitcoin, there’s a lot to know and there’s a lot of sub subdisciplines within it. And there’s a lot to know within each one of those. Sub-Disciplines when I, when I was starting my training, I wanted to be a cinematographer. Who’s, you know, the person behind the camera, who’s responsible for the lighting and the camera movement. And I quickly found out it was much too technical for me. And even though I had a good eye, there’s a lot of math involved with these new systems and new digital cameras.
You know, I think it’s Saifai right. I think, I think it’s Saifai if I had to say it would be the main documentary now. Well, yeah, you could do it as that, but documentaries are boring and they’ve all become propaganda pieces. I don’t know if you’ve watched the documentary in the last 10 years, but there are documentaries. Now they have a, they have a, they have a presupposition and the documentarian goes in in order to confirm his findings and lo and behold, he always does. So they’re propaganda pieces these days. I think Bitcoin’s science fiction, man. It’s, it’s basically like the credit system from star Trek. You know,
I guess I’m curious to have watched star Trek. I could have watched it at some point when I had too much spare time and that was in university. I wish I got into Bitcoin around the time. What I,
Oh, sorry. I would say I was in college back then. When when you were just thinking about how many Bitcoins I could have mind my computer with free power from the universe and I didn’t it’s man.
Oh yeah. I could just buy one Bitcoin. It wasn’t much of a big deal back in 2014. When I first heard about it, I could just write bucks and buy one, but I had no knowledge about how to hold it and how to run a wallet, how to run a node. I guess
In some, in some ways I got out in university at the end of 2014. And so I started a business right away and my business was very successful right off the bat. During 2015, I had a lot of time to accumulate and most right around the time I found a Bitcoin anyway. So I, you know, I just taking money from my business and just plugging it on the Bitcoin. And my wife was like, what are you wasting all our money on? And I was like, woman, I’ll tell you when we’re rich.
No. I keep her in the dark now. Yeah, she knows. She knows she still doesn’t care at all 0%. And she only has maybe a vague understanding of how to get to the Bitcoins. So you can feel free to kidnap her. She is not going to be able to tell you anything.
Probably because I stacked 3 million sats the day before you know what, that’s another regret I had in 2015, I took my, I took my foot off the gas and I, you know, I got to a number of Bitcoin that I thought was a big number. And then I just basically stopped stacking. And in retrospect, that was a huge mistake.
And basically trying to become an academic, which I wanted at some point I’m still a PhD, but I’m not sure when I will finish it because honestly I have to choose between something which is a scientific hobby and an intellectual curiosity of mine, or is I have to write teases or I can work on something which actually makes me stacks and sats. So why would you choose?
Oh, I would a hundred percent stacks ads, a hundred percent, a hundred, 150% back that I’m, I’m telling you when I, in 2015, that was one of the worst mistakes of my life was not continuing to stack. It was so fucking cheap. It was crazy. And so I got to a hundred Bitcoin, which was my number at the time. Probably shouldn’t say that, but whatever I decided and once I got to a hundred, I was like, well, that’s a very, that’s a good number of Bitcoin in case this thing, you know, really takes off. And it is, it definitely is, but I could have had way more if I had just put my foot on the gas. So during this bear market, I just went crazy and bought a shitload more. And then I just kept stacking as hard as I fucking can. And every day I buy three or $400 worth of Bitcoin because I’m not going to get, I, you know, I might, I might buy three or $400 a Bitcoin every day for the rest of my life, because I’m not gonna never, I’m never going to not stack again. That was a mistake.
Yeah, that’s a good, that’s a good question. I like, I like the freedom that money brings, you know, I have money now and I just feel like I don’t have to worry about money as often. I feel like if I want to do something, I can do it. I like the security. It comes with the things that you can buy with money. I don’t really give a shit about, like, I don’t really need a Ferrari or Lamborghini. You know, a nice house is always nice, but it’s not a necessity to live in a mansion in terms of inheritance, you have to always be very careful with your children so that they don’t think that money is free and comes from nothing you need to. I think my basic thing with my children is going to be, you know, if you do the right things, it will be rewarded.
So, you know, dad will help you out. If you’re doing things correctly, if you’re doing things incorrectly, I’m not going to punish you, but you’re also not going to receive any help there. You know, there won’t be any money coming your way. I would like to see my, my Bitcoins go to things that, you know, enhance our future as a species be that space travel, be that art’s patronage be that, you know, new companies I invest in then start whatever it is. I just want to make a Mark. Having a legacy doesn’t matter as much because who gives a shit. You know, most people don’t know who the fuck you are right now while you’re alive, 99.9, nine, 9% of the people have no idea who the fuck you are. So the fact that, you know, people have this idea that like, I want them all to know who I am after I’m dead. They don’t even know who you are right now. They’re not going to know who you are after you’re dead. Right? So I think a legacy is kind of not a worthy goal to shoot for, but you know, adding a contribution, adding a brick to the wall of humanity, that is something to shoot for. And if people want to say, that’s a legacy, that’s fine, but you shouldn’t care about the praise. You should care about the achievement.
That’s right. 6.15. That’s the King’s number, the golden number for the big titty bitches. That’s another reason I don’t care about my account. You know, my account keeps getting deleted, suspended, whatever. I don’t give a shit about this account, by the way, I might as well do this on the pod right now. If you guys want to know how to evade a Twitter ban, I’ll teach you. What you do is you get a VPN, you log in through a VPN, you get a new afresh email account and you switch your phone number. Bada Bing, bada boom. You’ve evaded, Twitter, censorship. It’s very easy. Really? Yeah. That’s all. That’s all you do. The reason I keep coming back so fast is I keep a second phone line. I switched the number on it. So every time Twitter deletes me, I call up my phone company and I say, Hey, what’s up. I want a new number. And then I switched the number.
This is my second line that I it’s sort of like a burner phone for me. I only use it to do things that are where I need enhanced privacy. Right. But if you want to do the cheapo version of the, here’s, what you do, text a friend who doesn’t use Twitter and just be like, Hey bro, I need the code that Twitter just sent you just put in their phone number and then have them send you back the code when Twitter verifies it via two factor.
Well, yeah, but you’re going to, you’re going to have to do that anyway. If you’re on Twitter, you know, I mean, you’re saying, Oh, you’re saying the friend, the friend. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just do it with people you trust or just don’t be cheap and buy yourself a new phone number or just don’t get banned off Twitter. But if you don’t want to get banned, you’re going to have to play by their rules. And I don’t like playing by their rules. So I’m going to keep getting banned,
Oh, I remember that. I remember when you got banned that’s right. Because that’s how I became aware of you. It was during your banning. Really? Yeah. Cause everybody was talking about the Bitcoin cash. People had attacked you. And that was when I, that was when I was like, Oh, who’s this guy that they attacked. If they attacked him, I must like them. You know?
I think it was just like scattered around Twitter. It wasn’t like a, it wasn’t like the HODL, not thing where it was like a big deal, but I definitely remember hearing about it. And I think that’s how I became aware of it.
So yeah, we were talking about this a little bit before the show and you were basically asking me how does cause I’ve, you know, I go online, I like brag about my income and stuff. You were asking me how to get, how to get your feet set up so you can get your stats up basically. And the way to do it is just have equity in whatever you’re doing. So, you know, selling your time for, you know, pieces of paper that are infinitely inflatable, probably not going to be the key to wealth generation, you know, but having equity in sort of sort of wealth building machine, some sort of an economic machine that continues to make money, you know, you’re the owner of the output of that machine or part owner. That’s going to be the thing that gets you to a more prosperous place.
So for me, I did this via my production company. And you know, you just start when you’re young and you get out of school, what you gotta do is just start cold, emailing people and start calling people. And you know, just, don’t be afraid to ask for money. So just say, Hey, we’re a production company or we’re X company. We do this or that. And then when they say what’s the price be like, it’s a hundred thousand dollars. A lot of people are going to tell you now, but there’s going to be two people that tell you yes. And then you just made $200,000, right? So it’s kinda like, it’s kinda like going up to supermodels and asking them if they want to bang you. Right. Most of them are gonna say no, but maybe there’s a couple who are like, Hey, alright, I’m feeling lonely today.
No, fuck that Vlad, you go right up to them and you’d be like, my name is blank. I’m going to fuck the shit out of you. Okay. I do it better than anybody else. And then you see what they say. It depends. And this
Well, that’s the key to wealth generation though, is overcoming those hurdles in your mind, the psychological hurdles, because it’s, it’s, you know, it’s hard to ask somebody for a hundred thousand, 10,000, 50,000, whatever it is, whatever the number is, it’s hard to, to, you know, feel like you’re worth that money, especially when you’re just starting out. But you got to kind of just fake it till you make it. And you get your paper ups on, you know,
Right? Yeah. I was talking about this a little bit on Twitter. I’m nervous about doing coin joins and I, so I haven’t done any myself. I kind of follow a Shinobi and Mr. HODL when they go back and forth about privacy. And I think one of them is team wasabi. And one of them is team samurai. Although I can’t remember, which is which one of the things about privacy that’s hard is if you make a single mistake, it basically ruined your privacy. Right? And so every time I start to go down the privacy rabbit hole, I started to just get more and more overwhelmed and confused. And I guess I’m in the camp with those that are waiting for it to become easier. Basically.
I don’t think it’s hard if you download wasabi, it’s very straightforward. The interface is one of the most elegant I have seen and any Bitcoin wallet ever.
That’s that’s good to know. Here’s the thing though. Can’t you just get a lot of the same benefit that you can by doing a coin joined by just sending your coins to an exchange and then getting them back out of the same exchange. No, I thought you could, because that basically breaks chain analysis also possible. The only, the only problem being that you have the, you have the exchange knows your information, right?
But with WhatsApp, you are basically mixing your coins with 50 other people, right? It’s hard for anyone to tell where comes from with spark, you’re basically linked to previous transaction.
I also have a problem with these privacy discussions because nobody’s going to fucking do this. You know, like most normal people are not going to do this. I mean, I’m a pretty hardcore Bitcoin or, and even I don’t want to do it. So, you know, if, if, if you just have privacy for one person or, you know, a small subset of people, you don’t really have that much privacy, the kind of needs to be for everybody. Right. So I don’t know that we’ve quite cracked privacy or fungibility in any sort of meaningful way. And it doesn’t seem to me like coin join is, is the, the way we’re going to crack it. Now, maybe, you know, once you know, what does it taproot that allows point joined by default? Maybe once that happens, that’ll be a different, you know, totally different ballgame. But right now we’re, we’re at, I don’t quite see it taking off.
Right? Well Schnorr is just a more elegant signature scan. But my understanding, like, see, this is the thing I’m not technical. So my understanding is, is less than others, which is why you shouldn’t listen to me about any of this go with the other people.
I don’t worry about tanning coins. Do you sometimes. Cause I think if I think of that becomes a thing that there are actually quote, unquote tainted coins, then the entire thing is done. Like Bitcoin’s over, we can’t have different classifications for coins. You know?
Well, yeah, they’re right. Which ones come from dubious sources, right? I’m I’m talking about in the marketplace. Not technically. So if there are, you know, if there’s like a separate market for untainted coins than there is for tainted coins, which I guess you could say, it always gets so complicated, I guess you could say there is with the OTC desk. But if that ever became a global thing, I think we’re in a dangerous place. And there’s the argument that it would get arbitraged away anyway, because okay. Who’s to say, you think this point is tainted. I don’t give a shit. It’s still a Bitcoin. I’ll take it off your hands. It’s still digital as digitally scarce as the next Bitcoin. Right. So I think that would maybe kill the market for quote, unquote tainted or untainted coins. I don’t like the terminology that I don’t like. I wouldn’t say there’s tainted points. There are coins that have been on silk road. Sure. But you know, are those tainted,
Right. It’s like, is there a tainted cash? You know, something like, what, what is it something like 20% of all cash has cocaine on it? Or maybe it’s like 80% of all cash has cocaine on it. Is that tainted cash now?
No, because it’s cash. You can physically hold it and nobody can take it away from you. But if you do this same with your bank account and you basically use digital money, which is you should buy your bank and we’re going to look forward to source. And it’s interesting. And I had this conversation with a friend today and she basically told me that her bank account is frozen and she cannot receive her pay. And she has been working hard for the past months and wants to get her salary and she cannot get it because of her bank account. And I basically told her, this is the new slavery, right? You have a bank account. And without it, if the bank arbitrarily decides that you’re not eligible to have one for whatever reason, then you’ll not be able to get engaged in the economy. You’ll lose part of your financial rights.
Well, totally. Yeah. But this is, this is what I’m saying is we don’t have that construct in Bitcoin. Nobody can freeze your account. You know, I mean, if you’re using a trusted third party sure. But if you’re taking control of your own monetary sovereignty, nobody’s going to be able to freeze you.
That’s why Bitcoin matters. And that’s why we should hash. And we should not allow our governments to push us towards that cashless society, which maybe that they have in Sweden.
Yeah. I think, you know, there’s some sort of idea kicking around in my head that I’ve never fully fleshed out, but you know, at some point the governments are definitely going to try and go cashless. Like I think we have to see that coming. Right. We all do. And the question is, do they do it with some sort of blockchain type technology? That’s Bitcoin and Json, and if so, does that speed up the velocity of their own demise? You know,
Really because people don’t care. I mean, we haven’t seen the consequences yet, and they’re not aware of what it’s like to have your money basically controlled by a third party that can do anything with it and can tell you when you cannot spend it and we can already see how some banks don’t allow you to buy Bitcoins. They will just stop any transaction which takes place. And then you kind of Bitcoin exchange. They basically blacklisted for example, Coinbase, and you cannot make any purchases and that’s your money. Why do they care? They’re going to say it’s protection that for you
When it’s also like, you know, you using your money to let’s say fun, terrorism or commit murder or whatever it is, the, the funding, it is not a crime, the doing of the terrorism or the murder or the illegal drug trade. That’s the crime. Right. Which I don’t think that legal drugs should be criminally penalized, but that’s the crime and there, they don’t want to do old fashioned police work where they solve the crime. They want to
Okay. Should I start over on what I was saying? Or should we just continue on, start over please? I think what I was saying is basically the so basically, you know, funding
No, I’m on the iPad. But it glitched out on me. Okay. It’s still great. Alright, I’ll start. I’ll start over. So what I was so basically doing a crime is the crime funding. The crime is not the crime and they don’t want to do good old fashion police work, where they track down the criminals. They just want to track all of us all the time and see where our money is going. You know?
Well, I guess that depends if you’re dealing with a non-criminal and you’re basically encouraging it by knowing what you’re doing, I guess you hold part of the guilt or whatever has been done, because he knew where what’s your money was going to do. But in some cases you unknowingly donate to some kind of charity and they turn out to be some sort of Charles Manson cult.
Right? Well, but if you were, if you were donating, let’s say you were using, you know, sending money to some sort of criminal or whatever. The service that you’re procuring, the criminal service, that’s the cry, the sending of the money is not a crime. You know what I mean? Yeah, I get it. Yeah. And they’ve made, they’ve made the sending of money, a crime. The OFAC list
Is a, you know, a terrorism watch list where they won’t allow you to you know, now another thing people get confused on this point where they think that, you know, because we have addresses in Bitcoin that these addresses are easily answerable. But you know, sure. You can just start it. You just create a new address. You can create as many addresses as you want. So go ahead and sensor them. It doesn’t matter
Also with that. And the fact that it’s an open market and if somebody refuses like mine or blocks you and doesn’t want to transact with you, there’s going to be one which wants to collect your fees.
In the case of something which is centralized and has essential power, which basically decides all of you are not going to do this and you’re not going to accept money or send money to this third party. Well, in the case of Bitcoin, there’s going to be somebody on the open market. For example, I can think of full mentors and I can think of minors that basically take advantage of full man pools. And they say, okay, I’m going to pick up these transactions, which are the cheapest, because there are so many of them and I’m going to make some money and that’s fair, right? Economic ride as a minor to basically do a service or which you’re going to get paid.
Concept with banks. There’s not going to be one which is fair with you because they have to comply to the same rules and regulations. There are ones that are more well Yun and harsher, and one to check on every cent or penny that you’re sending to other people. And they’re going to be curious about the source and the purpose. And there are going to be people who don’t care and they’re going to be blinded by this whole movement of saying I have nothing to hide. So I don’t care. And their ignorance is going to basically punish people who maybe need the privacy for reasons that are not necessarily criminal in any sense.
I think in I think in Bitcoin, you know, we, we sometimes unfairly get accused of attacking the, the quote unquote Bitcoin banks, you know, the exchanges like Coinbase or crack and or Gemini or any of those. And we do, we do attack them. And we, the reason we attack them is because they are subject to all of the same regulations that the modern banking system is subject to. So they censor transactions and they act just like, just like any other bank, right? So we may see a world in which once enough people have taken control of their monetary sovereignty and we’ve broken you know, of the global, you know, monopoly on, on banking. We can see a more free market banking system arise. And maybe in that free market banking system, you would feel comfortable leaving your Bitcoin with a bank with a good reputation, maybe not all your Bitcoin, but maybe some of your big ones, you know,
Totally. Yeah, no, I feel that, I feel that way right now, too. But maybe in a hundred years, it’s different, you know this is a very longterm view I’m taking on this.
I guess what every major paradigm shift there has been something very radical in the sense that they wanted to change everything fundamentally. And you had these early adopters who understood it and got it. And then you had people who just wanted to adapt it to their old way of living so that they preserve whatever they knew and whichever way of life they had. Right. And right now I can see it for example, where I’m not sure if you saw that product, the coin mine.
Supposedly I don’t care much about Tom. I don’t listen to him, follow him. I don’t like the style in which he tweets. I don’t see the value that he brings into the space, but that’s just a subjective points of view that I have. But the product itself is mediocre. And people just seem to like it because supposedly it’s very quiet and doesn’t make much noise, so you can keep it in your living room, but it’s not going to mind anything. It has such a low hash rate and it’s kind of pointless. It runs a full node, which is nice and just that’s it. My rebel, it can do lightning better than, than the Casa node, which is just under powered. And that’s not going to work so well, but it’s $700 for that kind of money you can buy either. And basic, which is about 200 bucks on eBay, or you can buy an Xbox one X, which is much more powerful. And you’ve, if you have any kind of coding skills, you can basically tweak that machine to mine, more Bitcoins than the coin, mine, or almost half of the price.
When you look at the people that the coin mine is being targeted to, you know, I get ads for the coin, mine on Facebook videos all the time. And so they’re targeting to a very I don’t want to say low level, but low level consumer.
I get it. And there’s the market for, but what I’m saying is that their product is too expensive for what it does. Right. I can understand that they make a profit out of it. But after that, they’re going to tax 5% of all the coins that you mine. And they say, it’s just for updates to your system, but they’re already made a profit. So if Apple did this, I guess a lot of people would be enraged. If they took 5% of what you have earned with your iPhone, let’s say that they have this type of system, which monitors, how much money you are making with your phone. And then they decided to save 5% and say, they’re going to improve the service. You already paid a lot of money for the product, and they’re making a profit out of it. If you’ve got a nice deal, like the whole system was 200 bucks and that’s how much the hardware is and are not making any profit, then you can say, okay, this is fair because I’m going to pay for the rest of what, for the labor and for the software and for the rest of the hard work, I’m going to pay it by plugging in the machine and basically giving away 5% of all the Bitcoins that I mind.
Oh yeah. Well it’s yeah. It feels like if net Netflix was to give you ads, you know, I was like, no, I already pay for this. I don’t, I don’t want ads in the middle of it.
There’s doom, like the original game from 1993, which was launched on Nintendo switch, right? The basically had to pay five bucks for it, which is a very reasonable price. But after you paid five bucks, they would make you create this kind of bet says the account and data basically verify the integrity of the files and keep some metrics like collect statistics about how you play in how long, how much time you spend within the game. And that’s the kind of stuff that you expect from free software. You download this shitty app,
They’re going to collect data about you, but that’s the way they monetize. When you pay money for it, you expect it to be, you know, yours and you should be able to do whatever you want to do with it.
Well, further what’s even more bullshit is that I know for a fact that doom has been open source for 20 years. You know, I think the engine has, I’m not sort of fucking, that’s insane. Like that’s crazy, you know,
Oh, I love doom. You know, there was a John Carmack, who’s the creator was just on the Joe Rogan podcast the other day. Very, very worth listening to, if you haven’t checked it out yet,
I know that’s super, super smart. And what I didn’t know about him was that he had a rocket company that was somewhat competing with space X for a while.
Yeah. I didn’t, I didn’t keep up with his company at all. I didn’t, I didn’t even know about that. So very interesting. He’s kind of psycho. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. But there’s a big difference between, you know, a couple million bucks and you know, hundreds of millions, billions, you know, like I think, I think Trace and Roger are those guys, Eric Voorhees, they probably were all worth like, you know, a couple of million bucks when they first got in. And now a lot of them are billionaires are knocking on the door of being billionaires. Right. I don’t think John Cormack is quite that rich, but I bet you, he has 50 million bucks, a hundred million bucks
But it’s like, Steve Wozniak remit. Do you remember when Steve Wozniak said he’s sold his Bitcoin? Cause he didn’t like watching the price go up and down. Yeah. He was checking the price too much. And he was like, I don’t like it,
Well at a certain point too, you know, you are being, it is sort of an insanity to continue to acquire capital actively. Like if you already built those wealth machines in your youth and then they continue to work for you. That’s great. But if you spend all your time thinking about and fantasizing about money instead of living, then that’s not really, that’s not really life. You kind of just made money, your God, and that’s your fixed focal point.
Oh, I agree. A lot of people don’t seem to get this, but I suppose dos or don’ts are the ones who are not really rich and have never held like a fabulous amounts of money or Bitcoins in their wallet.
Any standard, you know, my, my, my net worth in you know, USD is like $6 million. So I have money and I don’t feel any different. I feel the same money took care of some of my money problems, but it didn’t make me feel different as a, as a person. And I think where we all get tripped up as humans is like, let’s say you’re out in the cold and you’re starving and you’re hungry and you’re wet. And somebody brings you into a nice warm house and they give you food and they give you a blanket and then let you warm up by the fire. Well, you went from misery to happiness and it was stuff that made the difference. Things made you happy because you had a lack of things. And then you had things around you and that made you happy. And that’s, that’s a truth. That’s a truth about humanity. The lie that we all tell ourselves is that if I had that many more thing, I would be that much more happy. And somebody like bill Gates or Jeff Bezos, they must walk around in this perpetual state of bliss. And that’s not reality. Once you get to a basic level of sustenance, nothing else will make you much happier from there
Makes a lot of sense, I guess. Maybe they’ll never be rich like you are, or like Roger veer, Eric Vorhees and trace Mayer. But at least maybe I get to live a decent life and which I don’t have to worry much about surviving because the biggest struggle of the mall, being able to put food on the table, being able to raise a family and basically live a normal life. That’s void of existential struggles. And I don’t mean psychological existential struggles. I mean something which basically buttons your health directly.
Right? Well, I think, I think if you, you know, if you have enough Bitcoin, you’re not going to necessarily be rich, but it’s going to, it’s going to be very good for you. Now. The hard part will come. What’s your longterm plan? You know, what are you? You’re only 27. So what’s 50 years from now look like for Vlad, because you have to make those decisions. Now, you know, people think that you can make them late or you can’t, you’re going to win or lose later based on the decisions you make now, it’s like safety and thing where you’re trading with future Vlad, right? So during the next bull run, if the Bitcoin price is half a million dollars or something crazy like that, what does present Vlad do? How does he trade against future of lad? This present Vlad go out and spend all his Bitcoin on a house and a nice car and this and that, or this present Vlad maybe so a little bit coin or spend a little bit fund some needs and some wants, but maintains a large chunk for future and future generations. These are very, you know, it’s a very personal question too. Like I can’t tell you what’s right for you. Only you can tell you what’s right for you.
Never. And I, and I, you know what I want to say, I never will because I’m going to spend them, you know, on investments that are productive and make me more Bitcoin. And then I’ll, you know, I’ll spend a little bit of that to live and things, but I don’t mind, my net worth is not entirely Bitcoin. Some of it is in dirty paper currency. So I just, I tend to spend that instead of spending the Bitcoin
I, well, I found out about it in 2012 on the Joe Rogan podcast from Duncan Trussell who was talking about people buying drugs on the silk road. And I thought, okay, you know, I had the same thought everybody has, which is like, okay, cool. Some nerds are buying drugs with nerd money. Right. And then a year later, my, my buddy came to me at the bar and yeah, cause me and him wanted to buy drugs. And then he was like, Hey dude, you know, that Bitcoin thing, it hit $1,300. Cause I knew that at the time Don controls and talking about it, they were like $12 or something. So I was like, Holy shit. That’s like a thousand or a hundred X but thousand thousand. And I was like, I could have been, you know, so rich. And then, then it took me like a year and a half of that basically like depression. And then I saw the price had cratered, you know, it was in the low two hundreds. And that was when I decided to finally buy some. And at the time I was buying it, it’s still kind of basically felt like I was throwing my money away. You know,
Even though maybe that Bitcoin will get nowhere assumingly, that we’re not going to see another bull run, but we have all learned a great lesson about basically tempering our preference and trying to understand what is essential and what is just a pointless much realistic wants that we have.
Yes. And I think Bitcoin, you know, I was already on that path before Bitcoin. Like I was already ruminating about these things and thinking about delaying gratification I didn’t call it lower and time preference at that time, I called it delayed gratification. And I knew that if I traded with my future self, that I could make much more money. But Bitcoin hardened that resolve to a tremendous degree. So, you know, all the things I was thinking about, about delaying gratification, I just started taking them to like, you know, extreme conclusions. Like I may never spend any of this Bitcoin. I may just leave it to future generations, you know, we’ll have to see, but I, I started thinking of myself less as a person who owned this Bitcoin and more as a steward of this Bitcoin, somebody who’s just, who just happens to be looking after it. Right.
I also have another question and possibly we’re going to do them all, but Roxana Nasoi, who is also remaining one, see, now how many Twitter accounts you’re you predict that you’re going to have by 20, 25,
Also. So she whites and modal, which is a nice pun for Walter White wants to know if your friends and family know that you’re Bitcoin rich. And if they listen to you to buy some,
Oh my God, my my friends and family all know that I have Bitcoin. They all know that I won’t shut the fuck up about Bitcoin. But none of them, for some reason, believe I’m rich. They just, they just don’t believe it, which is strange. It’s not like I go around screaming. I’m rich. I bridge either. But you know, when money conversations come up or whatever, you know, you say these things to Pete, like people will tell you things about how they’re financing a timeshare or something. That’s a really stupid purchase and you’ll start to give them advice about it. And they’ll, they’ll give you some boilerplate explanation. That’s just kinda like, well, everybody does this know. And it’s like, yeah, well, everybody does it. It’s not something you should be doing. Shouldn’t be doing what everybody else is doing. And they shouldn’t be financing a car and stuff like that. The, no, they don’t believe me. And they think I’m insane.
That’s right. Yeah. I don’t believe you should live in a, up to your eyeballs in debt or, you know, like, what’s wrong. Why is everybody in such a hurry, man? You know, you’re not going to appreciate any of the things that you get. If you get them right now, you’re going to appreciate them after you’ve worked for them. You know, you don’t need a new car, like an old shitty car we’ll work and we’ll get you to where you’re going. You know, sometimes I go to the you know, I live in like a nice area and I go to the store and there’s, you know, $150,000 cars parked next to me. Mercedes and Lamborghini’s and you know, this and that. And I just always think to myself, like we’re all here at the same place. We all drove on roads that have speed limits. You didn’t get here any faster than I did. So you basically paid $130,000 more than I did. Just so people would think you were cool when you got to this location. All I had to do was park in the bat and then show up and left my personality, did the talking for me. I think it’s, I think it’s crazy the way most people live.
No, but you’d have to, we all know that you have to have 6.15 Bitcoin for that. And that’s the true, the true status symbol is 6.15 Bitcoin, you know? Exactly. And all you gotta, all you gotta do is sign, sign that transaction at the bar, you know, just sign that transaction at the bar. And that she’s just gonna, she’s going to take off her top. That’s that’s all I know.
Yeah, you don’t, you don’t give them the Bitcoin. You just sign a transaction in front of them. They go crazy, dude, they’ll take it. They’ll just take it all up right there. I’ve seen it.
Oh yeah. I’ve done a lot of, you know, me and my team. We’ve been out there field testing it and we’re getting some promising data, some promising feedback. So I’ll be publishing a full report in the coming months. This is a very wide survey that we’ve been doing. But yeah, we’ve been going to bars across the world and surveying well endowed women.
You know, I’m, I’m going to go with a different answer than most people would give. And I’m going to say Peter teal. And I don’t, I don’t know if you’ve read Peter Till’s zero to one. Have you read that book? No, what’s, it’s probably the best business book of our time. And in it, Peter talks about some really interesting phenomenon between the generations. Like for instance, you know, like our grandparents generation, the generation that fought in world war II was the type of generation to use, you know, have big, hairy, audacious goals and use calculus to get there. You know, it was like, we’re going to the moon, we’re going to put a man on the moon. How are we going to do it? I don’t know we’re going to do the math. We’re gonna, we’re going to figure it out. And then our parents’ generation was this sort of generation of indefinite optimist where they were saying, things are probably going to get better in our lifetime.
And we’re not sure how they’re going to get better, but they’re going to get better. And you know, I, I guess this is the sort of algebraic function that, that shows that these things are going to get better. How are they going to happen? I’m not quite sure. Right? And then our generation is sort of indefinite to definite pessimistic where we know that bad things are gonna happen. And that we’re just trying to get out of the way of those bad things. And a lot of people in our generation, you know, use hedonism or you know, high time preference activity, and behavior to escape this pessimistic fate. Whereas we, as Bitcoiners I think are reverting to, you know, sort of our grandparents’ generation and being, becoming definite optimists again, where we’re saying the world is going to get better. We know we’ve done the math, the math is this.
Here’s how the Bitcoin algorithm works. Here’s when the havings are, you know, the blocks keep propagating. Things are getting better and we have reason and cause to be optimistic. And I took a lot of influence from that book. I know Peter teal owned Bitcoin and then sold it. I’m sure he will own it again. He’s a very smart guy other than his investment in EOS, which makes me lose a little bit of respect for him, but he’s still a super genius who I definitely respect. He also has this thing where, you know, in Silicon Valley they say that you know, everything’s, you know, failure is, is like pre success. Like, Oh, we didn’t fail. We’re were just pre successful. And Peter’s take on that whole thing is, you know, failure is not some sort of Darwinian imperative where there’s a lot of tragedy, but it’s beautiful and you learn something, you know, Peter things, failure is always tragic and avoidable. And that’s also a lesson I always like to employ to not think that I’m going to fail when I start out to start out with a clear goal in mind, and to do anything that it takes to hit that goal.
Obviously, obviously Nick Zibo is incredibly intelligent and his writings, a lot of them, I have to read four or five times because they go over my head. You know what I like Hal you know, I always liked how, when I found out about Hal because how was just like promo bullish from day one? Like how was just like, of course it’s going to be the world reserve currency. Like this was at a time when this was just on some obscure mailing list that Hal and 25 other people were subscribed to. And how was the only one who wrote back, but he just had this like eternal optimism and he, he saw the vision from day one. So yeah, that’s pretty inspiring. And then also, you know, in the early days, Andreas was very inspiring to me. And now I don’t like him as much.
I, you know, I think I’ve changed. I also don’t agree with his assessment. That maximalism is a fear response. I think Andreas has to think that because he’s been on the brunt receiving and of a lot of maximalist attacks recently. And so he thinks that it’s a, it’s a fear response and that we’re all afraid of losing our money. And I think it’s more of a moral response to all the scamming that’s been going on in this open system. Like people, people like to, people like to use the free market to explain a way their immoral behavior. And it’s like, well, it’s all the free market, man. Well, Hey me telling you that you’re an immoral piece of shit. That’s the free market too. And I can print articles about it that say you’re in a moral piece of shit and I can attack you as much as I want, because that’s also the free market. So if we’re all going to stand behind the free market, letting us do whatever we want, but what I want to do is impede your ability to do whatever you want to do. And that’s also the free market.
Well, sir, but at the same time, there is a point where we just have to accept that we’re dealing with grownups who are stubborn and no matter what we’re to tell them,
They’re going to be convinced that they might be right and they want to prove us wrong just out of spite or just because they have this kind of feeling that they want to be on top and they want to prove you wrong. And there’s nothing to these people. You can try to educate them. You can try to explain to them rationally what’s going on, but they’re going to see that bcash is a lot better and big blocks are a good idea and whatever
Well that’s, those people are, that’s the Dunning Kruger effect. You know, those are people that are stupid, who don’t know they’re stupid. Like I don’t care about them. I w who I care about are the people that are, they should know better, you know? And I think Andreas should know better. That’s my own personal thing. And he’s obviously free to do whatever he wants. And he always blocked me on Twitter. So it doesn’t matter. Anyway, my opinion, isn’t going to get through to him.
What I was saying earlier about people promoting dangerous and false narratives. You know, Andreas was doing a lot of that back in the 2013, 14, 15 era. And he promoted a lot of falsehoods or a lot of things that were myopic that were true at the time that later turned out to be false. And, you know, it’s hard to fully fault him for that, but there was collateral damage from some of that, that he did. So
Right? Yeah. He was. And he would make that a point in all of his, and, you know, he was technically kind of right at the time. I mean, it was, it was never free, but it was very cheap. I dunno, I wish obviously I wish he’d had a little more foresight or at least, you know, some atonement would be nice from him. I’ve seen nothing from him that is, you know, maybe I shouldn’t have said all that. Nothing.
He also seems. Yeah. He seems like, he seems like he has new found fame and he’s intent to keep his newfound fame. And I’m, you know, I’m, I’m suspicious of anybody who wants to put their face out in public like that, you know, especially that’s me as an anonymous Bitcoin or part of the reason for being anonymous is, you know, cause I kind of am like this in real life. Like I don’t need to be anonymous to say the word faggot, like I’ll say faggot on Facebook. I don’t care. The reason I want to be anonymous is because I don’t matter. I’m a nobody, I’m just some guy in now. So when you put your face out there, like Andress does so publicly and he’s all over the place. And I know that you’re, I know that you’re a public big corner too, but you know, some of these people are really seeking the limelight and I’m always immediately distrustful of that behavior.
Yeah. I can see why, because I tend to be the same with people who just want fame for the sake of it and don’t want to do anything. Right. But in the case of Andrea, so at least he’s writing books and I know that he is working on mastering lightning network.
Well, that’s, that’s what I’m saying is, you know, they’re, they’re going in a million different directions at once. And none of them are gonna work out. So it’s, it’s just a complex Rube Goldberg machine. You know what I mean? You know what a Rube Goldberg machine is? No, those are those things where like, you know, the, the guy will be eating breakfast and in order to get the eggs on the plate is complex contraption around him. You know, she moves a bunch of levers and then puts the eggs on the play. You ever seen those videos on YouTube or anything? No, never. I have to send you one, but anyway, it’s, it’s unnecessary bullshit
Making an extra effort to do something, which is obvious. Yes. Just as is. Yes. I can agree with that. And I used to be very enthusiastic about anterium because it was using all the hype words that I was willing to,
The world computer decentralized internet with decentralized applications that can be deployed and cannot be censored. And in my mind, I was like, Oh my God, this is it. This is the future. This is the kind of invention which I was waiting for.
No, well, this, this was I had the, I had this similar reaction where, when Ethereum first launched, I mean, I was there for the Ethereum ICO and I could have invested you know, at Ethereum at 50 cents, which I guess in retrospect, I should have done, but you know, nothing made any sense and you’d ask Bartolic questions and he would come back with nonsense and then his disciples would spew more nonsense. And none of it ever seemed like it had any chance of succeeding. And then it grew to $1,100 a coin, which is something I never saw coming because I never thought the fucking made sense. I never had an aha moment with a theorem and an aha moment. You know, that moment where you look at it and you go, aha, this is it. Yes. Eureka moment. No, not really. Nobody does it. It doesn’t make sense.
And I used to, you know, I used to go on there on our Ethereum on their Reddit. And I would ask a bunch of questions. I mean, all the time, like I spent a lot of time on our dash, if there I’m trying to figure out if something was real and I never got back any answers that made any sense. And I still haven’t the whole thing doesn’t make sense. You know what I mean? Like, how are they going to go? How are they going to transition their system to proof of stake? It doesn’t seem like it’s feasible in any way, shape or form. Right. It just doesn’t seem like it’s ever going to happen. And then all the stuff that they said, you know, the world computer and decentralized that they abandoned all of it for these new narratives that aren’t, that also don’t make sense.
Right? Like de fire. Now there are quote unquote programmable store value. No, they’re not there at the drop of a hat. They can change the, you know, the monetary code base. Like nobody knows how many are there and we’re going to be issued. There are no guarantees. It’s, it’s a soft money system. Yeah, it’s, it’s nuts to me. They have a, they have a quote unquote Linus, Torvalds, but like, you know, Linus Torvalds who leads Linux is a genius and he’s humble. And he knows what he’s doing. Vitalik doesn’t seem to be any of those things.
Yeah. But I guess Vitalik gets the most credit for interior while it wasn’t his invention. 100% maybe he came up and did some basic coding, but he had people working and doing the hard work he was.
You know, there’s, you know, I don’t know how many people know about this, but, you know, Andreas owns at least a million dollars worth of material really? Yeah. Do you know that? No, there was a pod podcast back. I think it was on the, the let’s talk Bitcoin podcast back in 2015. And he talks about buying you know, a thousand Ethereum at, at the ICO. So at the top, that was a million dollars worth of, but there am. So it totally makes sense where his economic incentives were aligned, you know, and that’s why he wrote that book and continues to show for a it. But yeah, he invested in the ICM. He was there for it,
Yeah, it makes no sense really. I mean that Bitcoin, you can see that there’s a future for it. There’s an application for it. And there is a demand in this crazy world where transactions get sensor, then banks get too much control. So there’s a use case, which is clear in the case of anterium you can argue that decentralized applications have value. You can say something like this decentralized exchange can be interesting and can be something with which we can make experiments. But more than that, what can you use really like colored colored coins that they’re trying to build on top of Bitcoin right now with telecons and collectibles, you have crypto kid basically destroyed the whole callability of material around the time.
People don’t even know that that’s that colored coins is a Bitcoin concept. You know, like all of these things, all of these Ethereum things were things that we used to talk about in the Bitcoin forums before Ethereum launch. You know what I mean? Like all of their concepts came from Bitcoin. Like for the most part, I don’t know about some of that, some of the new crap, but a lot of the things that were working or were proposed were originally, you know, just stuff that was part of the Bitcoin community. And it didn’t get implemented for a variety of reasons, namely that none of it really ever worked.
Right. Yeah. When it’s expensive to do things on top of Bitcoin, because your idea has to actually have an economic merit and value because the chain is expensive. So if you’re going to put things on top of Bitcoin, then you better be making more money than you’re spending and transaction costs
Brady at citizen Bitcoin and mr. Poopy Bitcoin, once, you know, how did you become such a bad ass? And also what’s it like to be a toxic bad-ass everyday when you wake up in the morning?
I guess, I guess, I guess I’m just, I’m just not afraid to say the thing that other people are thinking, but possibly not saying maybe deep, maybe Dieter Bob Dieter, Bob is thinking, but maybe other people are not, you know what I mean?
I like him too, but he goes after me almost, you know, he goes after everybody, like for no reason, a lot of the time and he’ll take like a width of shitcoin or just a width and turn it into a, he’ll build a mountain out of a mole Hill, you know, and make it a full blown federal case where he’s all up your ass. Like if you said, if you said the technology behind ZK Snarks look interesting, he would be all up your ass and be like, you fucking shit pointer. It’s hilarious.
Right? Yeah. This is going to be called the 6.15 club. And it’s going to be four gentlemen of leisure and a big titty bitches that accompany them into the club.
Well, you’re going to have, what you’re going to have to do is sign a transaction, showing that you have 6.15 Bitcoin and a, or you’re going to have to show up at the front door with huge debts. And those are the two ways.
You know what? You can come as my honored guest lab. But only if you like big titty bitches, if you don’t, you’re going to have to stay home. I mean, what’s nuts like about that.
Personally. I’m more of like a good B cup, like just, you know, perfect. But it was just something that I noticed that the big titty women that they like a man was 6.15 Bitcoin.
Presents some kind of charisma that is hard to describe. It’s always some kind of aura around you, which glow is all the time. When you have 6.15 Bitcoins.
That’s right. That’s right. Well, cause you know, it’s like with a Lamborghini, when a girl sees the Lamborghini, just thinking to her, you know, maybe me and my offspring could ride in his Guinea with them. But when a girl sees you guys, 6.15 Bitcoin, she’s like, maybe me and my offspring could pull Mars. You know what I mean? Which is a lot better.
I’m not going to argue with you or against you. I wouldn’t mind some big titty bitches and I guess I will have to label this episode as explicit when I upload it. So it doesn’t get banned by iTunes.
Oh yeah. Bitcoiners don’t give a fuck. Bitcoiners are like, yeah, whatever, man. Even if they don’t agree with what I’m saying and they think I’m like, you know, an asshole for saying it, they’ll still be like, Hey, fuck it.
I hope that’s what they, well, you know, part of the reason why I do my sat stacking. So publicly is because, you know, it’s one thing to want to do to want to create FOMO amongst your no coiner friends. But it’s another thing to want to create FOMO amongst rabid Bitcoiners. You know what I mean? Cause I know the Bitcoiners are gonna stack it harder and I know it’s going to be it’s more, it’s more trustworthy and they’re in their capable hands. You know, I’d rather the Bitcoiners have it than the no corners.
Yeah. Maybe sometimes I get jealous when I watched your stack stats and I say, okay, this guy is stacking so many sets and I have to wait until payday. And maybe that half of my pay is going to be stacked. Maybe if I get lucky and I eat mom’s food for a month,
Hey, that’s, that’s good though, man. There’s always some sort of jealousy going on in Bitcoin. As long as it doesn’t turn into envy. I think jealousy is a very helpful emotion. Because jealousy is basically, I want what you have, which is how healthy, because it might, it might propel you to get what I have, you know, to work harder and to get more. But envy is, I want what you have so badly that I don’t want you to have it. I’m going to take it away from you. That’s what we see with socialist. Brazilian regimes are all built on the feeling of envy.
Exactly. And it’s like something that makes you competitive and makes you want to become better. Right. Alfie. And by the way, since we started talking, I have stacked 8,000 SATs by playing.
There’s this Mario game on Satoshi’s games. And it just helps me focus when I talk and do podcasts, I just play this. And if I managed to save Satoshi was like the replacement for princess peach. Then I get the SATs. I mean the coins, which I collected along the game and I seem to have gotten very good. I should participate Mario tournament’s or something because I keep on winning and stacking more stats.
All right. 303 million. Let’s say confirming, oftentimes cash app is like, nah, you’ve stacked it too hard. Boom. There we go. Just got 3 million more. That’s 3 million more you motherfuckers are never going to get, those are mine. Now.
Yeah, you should. That’s a great way to do sing the episode and I guess, and publish it as fast as I can. It’s possibly the longest podcast that I have ever done. I’m not sure for how long we have spoken, but it didn’t feel like long.
Yeah. I Hitchcock has this amazing quote that he calls a refrigerator moment. So like when you’re watching a film and something doesn’t quite make sense, but you just go with it, you know, because you’re, you’re suspended in the you know, in the world of the film. And then later at night when you’re making yourself a sandwich at the refrigerator, you just go, huh? That didn’t make any fucking sense. That’s it? That’s a refrigerator moment. And I always think about that one.
Was there a one or what is the refrigerator moment in Bitcoin? Let me think about that. Like the moment where you go, huh? That doesn’t make any sense. I’ll tell you. I’ve had refrigerator moments about the federal reserve. A lot of the since I got into this, but about Bitcoins architecture itself or the system itself I haven’t really had any, everything makes a lot of sense. I think it’s a very elegant system.
I have a lot of sour moments about Bitcoin. Like I just stopped and I just stay too much in the shower. Not because I masturbate, but because I think about Bitcoin,
You know what? You just need to stack it harder. Get your 6.15 and then you’re good, man. They’ll just come to you. You don’t even have to go out looking for it for them. You know,
Me, what is the 6.1, five, eight point? What does that get women? And I said, here’s what it gets you. It gets you a ripped husband with abs who always does the dishes. Who’s super supportive. Who listens to all your stories, who knows the names of your friends. It also gets you a gay best friend to go shopping with. And it gets you the ruin and destruction of every bitch that ever crossed you. That’s what? 6.51, one five Bitcoin gets you as a woman. Yeah. There’s something, there’s something for everybody in 6.1, five Bitcoin.
For anybody who’s listening. That story I told where I said I had a hundred Bitcoin back in 2015. I never, that’s not true. I’ve only ever had 6.15 Bitcoin.
Unless they’re collectibles, but if they’re brand new and manufactured, like they’re not made by hand and they’re made in mass production and they’re not going to have any kind of value.
It was a fun story in 2017 when everybody was forking Bitcoin to increase the block size and possibly have faster confirmations and say, we have solved scalability and there is no way Bitcoin can do this.
No, that happened actually well before 2017, I heard people pitching that narrative in 2015 and the way they would say it is, they would say, you know, it’s always the third competitor that survives, right? Like the first one breaches new territory. And, but then gets a lot of arrows and it’s back the second one, doesn’t get it quite right. And then the third one learns the mistakes of the first two and, and thrives, you know? And they were, they were all pitching their stuff as the Facebook. Remember when people were saying that Bitcoin was the MySpace of cryptocurrency, you remember that? Yeah, that, that pissed me off so bad because it’s like, Hey, you fucking idiots. Toshi is one of the world’s preeminent geniuses. And he was thinking a hundred years ahead of the rest of us. Okay. He’s not just some asshole with an ICO. Like the system architecture Bitcoin is so elegant and amazing that I don’t know how it can be improved upon, in fact, the world’s best and brightest. Just go into Bitcoin and try and make Bitcoin better rather than, you know, starting their own shit coin. So when I would hear people say that I would be like either, you know, you’re too dumb. You’re, you’re basically too dumb to know what’s going on. And if you are, you shouldn’t even be at this table, you know?
Somebody is going to take this meme one of these days and they’re going to be like, they’re gonna be like, Oh, Bitcoiners, think women just are going to give them sex.
I tried to find a purpose in this space and it’s a privilege to be able to work for something which is noble and it’s intense and also pays you. I mean, okay. Why not?
Totally. And I appreciate that. You’re not going the crypto route. I appreciate you doing it the right way. Maybe there’s a donation of 6.15 Bitcoin in your future. If you keep it up, I’m just saying, I’m not saying, but I’m just saying.
So if there are any donations which are made to this show, I guess you don’t want to get half of the Bitcoins because you’re rich already. You have six points, but they’re not.
Yeah. Unfortunately Ross is fucked. I mean, they’re never going to let him out of that cage. They have a man, unless you know, we all gained power in our late forties, early fifties. And we were able to make sure it happens. I would like to see him freed, but I don’t, I don’t think there’s much of a chance.
I think they should. Everybody should keep fighting the good fight, but I feel bad for Ross. It makes me really sad. Like that Twitter account that tweets this stuff from prison, man, that shit makes me sad. It makes me really sad,
American bitcoiner Jim, best known as Fartface2000 and his great contribution to the #LNTrustChain movement which Hodlonaut started, talks about his beginning in Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, his experience in finance and investing, and his relentless curiosity of learning about new technologies.
You wouldn’t expect a gen X man with a successful business and a large family to become interested in Bitcoin, but Fartface is the best kind of geek. After becoming convinced of BTC’s unmatched qualities, he spent time learning how to run full nodes, how to mine, and how to onboard Lightning.
Anyone younger than 30 listening to this podcast has a lot to learn and might discover a few key elements that may just convince their fathers to join the Bitcoin revolution.
Also, if you want to support Jim, then you may buy one of his Opendime-powered piggy banks on the BitPiggys website. They can be a great tool to teach children about the virtues of saving and sound money.
If you would like to support the show and project, you may donate some sats through the QR code below, send a tip via Lightning, or spend $1 of your dirty fiat on Patreon. Keep in mind that 50% of BTC donations will be sent to Jim or a charity of his choice, as his time and educated insights are valuable.
In his 6+ years of being in the Bitcoin space, Patrick Miller has been able to observe many of the developments and dynamic shifts that occurred. He witnessed everything from the accidental hard fork to the scaling debates which divided the community between Austrians and Keynesians.
However, Patrick has chosen to use the largest majority of his time on the Bitcoin Takeover Podcast to talk about the fundamentals of Bitcoin and what it is that sets it apart from all the altcoins. His message is really timeless and concerns all market cycles that precede the interview and will come, as it’s unlikely that people will still talk about EOS in 2025 just like we no longer talk about Namecoin in 2019.
Furthermore, Patrick Miller chooses to emphasize on the libertarian principles of responsibility and sovereignty, without which the immersion in Bitcoin becomes troublesome and burdensome. Part of the monetary freedom involves understanding that no trusted third party can make a miraculous save, and this fact should be empowering.
The episode is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. If you would like to donate to the show and help it get gradually better, you have both BTC and dirty fiat options:
Sats via on-chain Bitcoin transaction: 33THZHAvgiyR1MGdbryyfv7XiGCMrFDR4B
50% of on-chain BTC donations will be sent to Patrick Miller as a way of rewarding his time, energy, and resourcefulness. If he refuses the sats, then they will be directed to a charity of his choice.
Automatic Transcript (Helps with SEO):
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[Music]
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[Music]
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[Music]
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[Music]
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hi and welcome to the Bitcoin takeover
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podcast
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I am glad and today my guest is Patrick
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Miller who has been a bitcoiners since
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2013 likes to write articles about
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Bitcoin and he also does Bitcoin meetups
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in his City and hi Patrick
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I guess my first question for you is
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going to be about how you have changed
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your opinion about Bitcoin in the five
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years that you have been involved thanks
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for having me but my opinion about
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Bitcoin is in the last five years has
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changed really
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my understanding of Bitcoin has changed
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a lot I for a long time didn't really
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understand the really important factor
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about Bitcoin which is monetary
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sovereignty personal sovereignty
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personal responsibility low time
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preference so when I first got into the
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Bitcoin space I like many others was
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sort of confused about what it was
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useful for I thought you know was it
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good for payments was it was the
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blockchain some like database that could
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be used for applications and of all
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types and over time I came to realize
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that none of these things matter at all
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if you don't have a secure store of
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value that you can hold for the long
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term
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that can mean cannot be censored that is
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essentially uncomf escapable so I now
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today I have a different point of view
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about Bitcoin than I did five years ago
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I do see Bitcoin as the ultimate hedge
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it I like to refer to it as the people's
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hedge now I guess this change of
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narrative has also helped as before we
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had that hard fork where the Bitcoin
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cash side was created and all the key
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nations who wants it to spend their
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Bitcoin went to a different chain and
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started their own project we didn't have
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much development in this regard
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and now we get to maintain the main
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qualities that we appreciate about
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Bitcoin and develop a second layer
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that's meant to serve that merchants
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adoption purpose that we also hope that
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we can achieve but even if that fails
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it's fine because we retain these
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qualities of emits a not immutability
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uncensor ability and uncomf-- estates
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ability these are human words yeah yeah
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I agree we don't actually know how it's
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all gonna play out so it makes a lot
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more sense to to do optimizations before
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trying to scale up I like the
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terminology first you scale down then
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you scale out and then you scale up and
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that is exactly what I think the Bitcoin
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developers are doing they are optimizing
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for the main chain they are packing as
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much as they can into the smallest
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amount of space which allows for a large
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amount of social scalability it means
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that a lot more people can use the
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blockchain and they can interact
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directly with the blockchain by
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downloading it and they can you know and
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this and this is a way that this is the
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way that we are board millions of
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billions of people over the long term is
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creating solutions that scale socially
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as well as technically yeah and I guess
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when you first got into Bitcoin also the
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figures and the most influential people
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around were different you had Jeff
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garsik and Gavin Andresen
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and I guess Roger Revere was still
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considered to be between Jesus and the
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guy who really helped spread the word
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about the gospel of Satoshi ya the
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people who are doing the real Bitcoin
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work at the time you know Bitcoin a lot
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of the development was discussed on the
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mailing list
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it was various highly technical it was
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being discussed on IRC and so it was
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kind of hidden away a lot of the disk
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there was discussion on Bitcoin talked
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up org
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but you know the the a lot of the people
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that were really technically involved in
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Bitcoin we're not the people that you
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might have seen right away a lot of
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people that you saw right away which you
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came into space back then we're yeah you
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saw them you saw the Roger beers and you
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saw the people that were they were out
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there sort of marketing and they were
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they were promoting Bitcoin in the way
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that at the time that they thought it
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was made sense and maybe at that time it
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did make sense to do that but they
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didn't properly adjust their
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expectations as we learn more
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information so as we learn more
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information about scalability and about
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both technical scalability and social
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scalability you have to adapt and change
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your the way you look at things we also
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now you know just have an intuitive
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sense that it people don't really want
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to spend their bitcoins a lot of people
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want to hold their bitcoins that because
0:06:03.900,0:06:07.950
in order to obtain Bitcoin they have to
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go buy it on an exchange or you know
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it's still difficult to use and it could
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be problematic to use it in many
0:06:12.870,0:06:17.100
countries in the early cases of using
0:06:15.720,0:06:19.050
Bitcoin we saw that it was used
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primarily on the Internet
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to purchase things from the Silk Road so
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it may they made a lot of sense as an
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internet currency in those early days
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but that doesn't necessarily mean that
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it's that useful or practical for in in
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person payments at your local store for
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example one of the discussions that I
0:06:39.000,0:06:44.820
have with my friends sometimes when it
0:06:41.760,0:06:47.130
comes to Bitcoin is about ideology and I
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have a background in political science
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and some of my university colleagues are
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Marxists and find themselves on the left
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side of the debate and they say that
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bitcoin is only for libertarians and on
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our whole capitalists who want to get
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away from the government and I sometimes
0:07:06.180,0:07:12.930
like to think that there's so much more
0:07:09.240,0:07:17.000
to it than this idea of getting away
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from the government and I
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I guess it's a problem of our generation
0:07:19.990,0:07:25.630
first of all as the baby boomers and Gen
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Xers and I'm not sure if you're a
0:07:25.630,0:07:32.430
millennial or you consider yourselves to
0:07:28.210,0:07:35.889
be one but our generation tends to be
0:07:32.430,0:07:39.820
more open to the idea of government
0:07:35.889,0:07:42.280
intervention while our parents were more
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libertarian and they did not want the
0:07:42.280,0:07:46.600
government to get into their affairs and
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they were learning in school to protect
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their liberty and try to stay away as
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much as possible from the government
0:07:52.479,0:07:59.699
that is trying to grow and extend its
0:07:54.970,0:08:02.380
branches to all all that concerns
0:07:59.699,0:08:07.270
society and everything that concerns
0:08:02.380,0:08:09.060
economics yeah I think that well I think
0:08:07.270,0:08:12.099
a lot of people like to attribute
0:08:09.060,0:08:14.370
economic prosperity to like central
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banking or the financial system that
0:08:14.370,0:08:19.270
that was maybe promoted by central banks
0:08:16.720,0:08:22.020
but this doesn't really this is I think
0:08:19.270,0:08:24.789
a myopic way to look at the world and
0:08:22.020,0:08:26.919
actually when we look at technological
0:08:24.789,0:08:28.990
progress we see that technology was the
0:08:26.919,0:08:33.039
primary driver of prosperity and
0:08:28.990,0:08:34.539
innovation not fiat currency I think
0:08:33.039,0:08:39.010
that today's generation of Millennials
0:08:34.539,0:08:40.570
and Gen Xers I'm sort of on the early
0:08:39.010,0:08:42.130
end of the Millennials and like one of
0:08:40.570,0:08:47.110
the first probably Millennials that they
0:08:42.130,0:08:49.900
would call that the they don't know this
0:08:47.110,0:08:52.959
generation my generation and they and
0:08:49.900,0:08:55.959
the younger generation they don't have a
0:08:52.959,0:08:58.839
way to get in they don't have a way to
0:08:55.959,0:09:01.060
store value in a way that's reliable
0:08:58.839,0:09:03.459
they don't have investment opportunities
0:09:01.060,0:09:05.980
like real estate that their parents had
0:09:03.459,0:09:08.740
they don't have bank accounts that
0:09:05.980,0:09:10.770
produce a decent interest rate they
0:09:08.740,0:09:13.660
don't have a stock market that isn't
0:09:10.770,0:09:16.209
manipulated today's all of today's
0:09:13.660,0:09:19.600
markets are clearly bubbles it does not
0:09:16.209,0:09:21.880
really take a genius to look at the
0:09:19.600,0:09:24.550
current prices for property and housing
0:09:21.880,0:09:26.529
and all sorts of assets out there and
0:09:24.550,0:09:28.329
know that you're automatically priced
0:09:26.529,0:09:30.190
pretty much priced out of these things
0:09:28.329,0:09:32.910
in today's generation it will
0:09:30.190,0:09:35.440
take you a lifetime and not only that
0:09:32.910,0:09:37.149
your most you know our generation is
0:09:35.440,0:09:38.800
also incredibly encumbered by student
0:09:37.149,0:09:41.050
loan debt especially the United States
0:09:38.800,0:09:43.779
student a little bit is absolutely
0:09:41.050,0:09:45.610
crippling this generation that we this
0:09:43.779,0:09:47.439
is a generation that will probably never
0:09:45.610,0:09:49.810
own property probably will never be able
0:09:47.439,0:09:51.129
to invest retirement they have very
0:09:49.810,0:09:54.129
limited opportunities for hedging
0:09:51.129,0:09:55.899
themselves against calamity
0:09:54.129,0:09:58.180
so bitcoin is one of the few options
0:09:55.899,0:10:00.579
that today's generation has to protect
0:09:58.180,0:10:03.730
their wealth and that's the way I look
0:10:00.579,0:10:06.220
at it yeah that makes a lot of sense but
0:10:03.730,0:10:09.339
when you think about it I think that our
0:10:06.220,0:10:12.279
parents and our grandparents would be
0:10:09.339,0:10:16.329
much more open to the idea of Bitcoin as
0:10:12.279,0:10:18.339
a currency that is not created by any
0:10:16.329,0:10:20.230
government and there's not under the
0:10:18.339,0:10:22.720
control of any government and no
0:10:20.230,0:10:26.079
government can confiscate it so if you
0:10:22.720,0:10:29.319
present these free qualities to baby
0:10:26.079,0:10:32.290
boomers and Gen Xers then I guess they
0:10:29.319,0:10:36.579
would be more excited and more open to
0:10:32.290,0:10:40.120
this idea whereas digital money is not
0:10:36.579,0:10:42.130
all that exciting and I guess you get
0:10:40.120,0:10:44.649
most of the services with the credit
0:10:42.130,0:10:47.519
card and they have been using credit
0:10:44.649,0:10:49.600
cards I guess since the 60s
0:10:47.519,0:10:51.639
yeah and today's you in today's
0:10:49.600,0:10:53.110
generation they have been MO and they
0:10:51.639,0:10:55.360
have cash app and they have these
0:10:53.110,0:10:58.180
payment apps and China they have WeChat
0:10:55.360,0:10:59.380
and other applications all you pay they
0:10:58.180,0:11:02.290
already have the applications that
0:10:59.380,0:11:05.589
allowed them to transfer money you know
0:11:02.290,0:11:08.680
very quickly yes these systems are like
0:11:05.589,0:11:11.439
centralized however that's irrelevant
0:11:08.680,0:11:14.110
for their purposes you know the vast
0:11:11.439,0:11:16.420
majority of people today can go about
0:11:14.110,0:11:19.779
their daily lives and they can earn
0:11:16.420,0:11:21.670
money and they can go make payments and
0:11:19.779,0:11:24.209
they don't have an issue with that what
0:11:21.670,0:11:27.730
they have an issue with is losing money
0:11:24.209,0:11:29.620
due to monetary manipulation so over
0:11:27.730,0:11:32.350
time their money loses value because of
0:11:29.620,0:11:34.990
inflation I think you're right that the
0:11:32.350,0:11:36.639
baby boomer generation they actually
0:11:34.990,0:11:38.500
experienced as the United States more
0:11:36.639,0:11:40.120
than our generation the current
0:11:38.500,0:11:40.810
generation of Americans my age and
0:11:40.120,0:11:43.330
younger
0:11:40.810,0:11:46.170
are totally insulated and have no idea
0:11:43.330,0:11:48.610
they have very little understanding of
0:11:46.170,0:11:50.500
monetary economics they don't understand
0:11:48.610,0:11:52.029
the problems that have occurred in the
0:11:50.500,0:11:55.540
developing world they don't understand
0:11:52.029,0:11:59.470
what hyperinflation is they don't
0:11:55.540,0:12:01.390
understand these things they also don't
0:11:59.470,0:12:04.029
have any desire to have personal
0:12:01.390,0:12:05.380
responsibility and they definitely don't
0:12:04.029,0:12:08.050
want to protect their own money they
0:12:05.380,0:12:10.120
want something that's secure so
0:12:08.050,0:12:12.880
theoretically secure that it's insured
0:12:10.120,0:12:14.950
by their government and yeah I don't
0:12:12.880,0:12:17.830
actually know necessarily why this is
0:12:14.950,0:12:19.900
the case but I simply think that it's
0:12:17.830,0:12:21.550
probably partially an education problem
0:12:19.900,0:12:23.950
I simply think that people are not
0:12:21.550,0:12:28.240
taught to ask the questions they should
0:12:23.950,0:12:30.610
be asking also I guess it's the fact
0:12:28.240,0:12:33.910
that Bitcoin can look very intimidating
0:12:30.610,0:12:35.890
for newbies when you first come around
0:12:33.910,0:12:39.750
you you discover about this project
0:12:35.890,0:12:42.339
which in which if you ever lose your
0:12:39.750,0:12:43.870
keys you're not going to get access to
0:12:42.339,0:12:45.940
your coins
0:12:43.870,0:12:50.080
unlike the bank account where you can
0:12:45.940,0:12:53.470
just go to the bank office and present
0:12:50.080,0:12:56.530
your personal ID and get the pin number
0:12:53.470,0:12:59.170
to your credit card there is no such
0:12:56.530,0:13:02.620
service in Bitcoin and you have to take
0:12:59.170,0:13:05.710
responsibility for your keys and your
0:13:02.620,0:13:07.960
sovereignty and this concept can be
0:13:05.710,0:13:10.480
intimidating for a lot of people and
0:13:07.960,0:13:13.810
also the lack of a proper understanding
0:13:10.480,0:13:16.960
that I guess nobody really can claim to
0:13:13.810,0:13:20.290
have unless you are one of the og cypher
0:13:16.960,0:13:24.220
punks and have got him involved since
0:13:20.290,0:13:26.770
2009 as I have spoken to Luigi Bart
0:13:24.220,0:13:29.440
Homer was also on this podcast a few
0:13:26.770,0:13:31.390
days ago and I think the first
0:13:29.440,0:13:33.580
conversation that I ever had with him
0:13:31.390,0:13:36.250
was about the fact that he still
0:13:33.580,0:13:38.770
considers himself to be a Bitcoin noob
0:13:36.250,0:13:41.680
in the sense that he just keeps on
0:13:38.770,0:13:45.070
learning whenever he discovers a new
0:13:41.680,0:13:47.770
dimension which enlarges his perspective
0:13:45.070,0:13:50.200
on the matter he realizes that the
0:13:47.770,0:13:52.230
opinions that he had a few months ago or
0:13:50.200,0:13:55.020
a few years ago
0:13:52.230,0:13:57.780
more or less wrong and he just keeps on
0:13:55.020,0:14:01.320
learning about it so this idea that you
0:13:57.780,0:14:03.480
keep on learning about an asset that is
0:14:01.320,0:14:07.650
not issued by any government and cannot
0:14:03.480,0:14:10.320
be censored can be very divisive and
0:14:07.650,0:14:12.600
intimidating it's not for everyone but
0:14:10.320,0:14:15.120
it should be yeah you're absolutely
0:14:12.600,0:14:17.430
right to his point
0:14:15.120,0:14:19.380
he's totally correct that I am NOT an
0:14:17.430,0:14:22.080
expert in Bitcoin and no matter how long
0:14:19.380,0:14:23.700
you've been a Bitcoin I don't think you
0:14:22.080,0:14:25.260
know you can ever say you're an expert
0:14:23.700,0:14:27.240
per se there are a handful of people
0:14:25.260,0:14:29.460
that understand the protocol very very
0:14:27.240,0:14:31.020
well I wouldn't even necessarily say
0:14:29.460,0:14:33.200
they are experts per se and I don't
0:14:31.020,0:14:35.490
think they would claim they're experts
0:14:33.200,0:14:37.110
anytime you ever hear anyone who says
0:14:35.490,0:14:39.500
they're a bit quicker blockchain expert
0:14:37.110,0:14:42.240
that's a huge red flag
0:14:39.500,0:14:43.860
now the other I want to go to this point
0:14:42.240,0:14:45.810
about securing private keys
0:14:43.860,0:14:48.450
I believe that securing private keys is
0:14:45.810,0:14:50.550
the most important issue and it's the
0:14:48.450,0:14:54.210
it's the biggest problem that we face in
0:14:50.550,0:14:56.130
the Bitcoin and cryptocurrency space and
0:14:54.210,0:14:58.320
this is you know this is a problem that
0:14:56.130,0:14:59.850
you will never hear any certainly never
0:14:58.320,0:15:02.010
hear anybody and the all coin space
0:14:59.850,0:15:03.690
talked about but it's a problem that big
0:15:02.010,0:15:06.600
corners are acutely aware of and
0:15:03.690,0:15:08.240
solutions you know some great solutions
0:15:06.600,0:15:11.300
that are coming down the pike are
0:15:08.240,0:15:14.510
partially signed Bitcoin transactions
0:15:11.300,0:15:17.160
music a very advanced multi signature
0:15:14.510,0:15:19.050
schemas so anyone you know a lot of
0:15:17.160,0:15:20.370
people are costing like they they're
0:15:19.050,0:15:22.770
like well when are we gonna get when is
0:15:20.370,0:15:24.750
Vic I'm gonna go mainstream or how do we
0:15:22.770,0:15:26.610
make it help make the user interface so
0:15:24.750,0:15:29.220
easy for everyone to use that you know
0:15:26.610,0:15:31.280
any dummy can use it well I'm sorry to
0:15:29.220,0:15:34.680
tell them but that's never gonna happen
0:15:31.280,0:15:37.290
if you want to use Bitcoin in actually
0:15:34.680,0:15:38.820
using them and saw your value in it you
0:15:37.290,0:15:40.560
absolutely need to understand what
0:15:38.820,0:15:42.600
private keys are you need to understand
0:15:40.560,0:15:45.090
how to secure your keys you need to
0:15:42.600,0:15:47.730
understand that the best ways to do that
0:15:45.090,0:15:49.020
is multi signature you need to store
0:15:47.730,0:15:50.840
your own version up you need to
0:15:49.020,0:15:53.100
basically store the blockchain yourself
0:15:50.840,0:15:54.300
so yeah you know there's a lot of people
0:15:53.100,0:15:56.280
who want this technology to go
0:15:54.300,0:15:58.650
mainstream but you know mainstream to me
0:15:56.280,0:16:00.000
is just like I don't really care about
0:15:58.650,0:16:01.020
those people if they don't if they're
0:16:00.000,0:16:02.370
not interested in personal
0:16:01.020,0:16:03.630
responsibility and they're not willing
0:16:02.370,0:16:05.340
to take the time understand how to
0:16:03.630,0:16:05.810
secure their wealth they definitely
0:16:05.340,0:16:09.500
should
0:16:05.810,0:16:12.710
devine Bitcoin I guess the process was
0:16:09.500,0:16:16.040
also simplified with the seed words that
0:16:12.710,0:16:20.210
we have in several implementations for
0:16:16.040,0:16:22.850
wallets but it's so difficult this idea
0:16:20.210,0:16:25.250
that you have to keep these words on a
0:16:22.850,0:16:27.830
piece of paper that you can only
0:16:25.250,0:16:30.290
multiply up to the extent that it
0:16:27.830,0:16:31.910
doesn't get in the wrong hands and you
0:16:30.290,0:16:34.730
have to make sure that you always have a
0:16:31.910,0:16:37.430
copy or personally I'm not a fan of
0:16:34.730,0:16:40.220
memorizing the words as I think in terms
0:16:37.430,0:16:43.070
of what if somebody follows me home and
0:16:40.220,0:16:44.930
tortures me all right stuff to me and
0:16:43.070,0:16:47.510
they're not going to leave me alone
0:16:44.930,0:16:49.820
until I told them the word so I'm not
0:16:47.510,0:16:54.130
going to memorize them I guess this is
0:16:49.820,0:16:57.320
part of my personal security measures
0:16:54.130,0:17:00.020
but I don't hold them in these pieces of
0:16:57.320,0:17:02.870
paper that you get from a ledger or from
0:17:00.020,0:17:06.350
acosta know it either you know they give
0:17:02.870,0:17:08.870
you these talk pieces of carton on which
0:17:06.350,0:17:12.890
you can write your seed words and that's
0:17:08.870,0:17:15.620
way too predictable yes yes as a Bitcoin
0:17:12.890,0:17:18.860
er comes into your house and sees like a
0:17:15.620,0:17:21.170
small box where you store your ledger
0:17:18.860,0:17:23.870
there are very high chances for you to
0:17:21.170,0:17:26.089
also have some other piece of evidence
0:17:23.870,0:17:29.630
to point out your private key in there
0:17:26.089,0:17:31.520
that's bad security yeah absolutely
0:17:29.630,0:17:35.120
those are you know I think anyone who
0:17:31.520,0:17:37.190
follows Jameson lop knows that yeah
0:17:35.120,0:17:39.860
security and privacy are incredibly
0:17:37.190,0:17:41.240
important these are like operational
0:17:39.860,0:17:43.880
security is incredibly difficult with
0:17:41.240,0:17:46.250
Bitcoin you know what a lot of people
0:17:43.880,0:17:47.840
say well we need to bank the unbanked in
0:17:46.250,0:17:49.100
these other countries okay well that's
0:17:47.840,0:17:50.960
great but if these people don't have a
0:17:49.100,0:17:54.320
secure place to even store a seed phrase
0:17:50.960,0:17:57.650
then it's all pointless anyways they you
0:17:54.320,0:17:59.420
know the services that what Jameson lop
0:17:57.650,0:18:01.010
is working on with Casa huddle is a
0:17:59.420,0:18:03.679
sovereignty as a service which is a
0:18:01.010,0:18:05.390
multi signature service these are
0:18:03.679,0:18:08.480
incredibly important services that are
0:18:05.390,0:18:10.340
being developed you know and but the
0:18:08.480,0:18:12.500
user interface and the applications and
0:18:10.340,0:18:14.929
the security needs to be developed over
0:18:12.500,0:18:17.360
time to make it easier for people to use
0:18:14.929,0:18:18.890
multi skin mature but yeah you're
0:18:17.360,0:18:21.020
absolutely right that you
0:18:18.890,0:18:22.610
just you you store your distorting your
0:18:21.020,0:18:24.650
private key in your house or you know
0:18:22.610,0:18:27.500
you're on some Steve phrase is not
0:18:24.650,0:18:32.510
necessarily the most secure way to do it
0:18:27.500,0:18:33.830
either and so it is a huge challenge and
0:18:32.510,0:18:35.690
I do see this again as I mentioned
0:18:33.830,0:18:38.510
earlier this is one of my primary
0:18:35.690,0:18:41.270
concerns and the primary challenges with
0:18:38.510,0:18:43.460
being in this space and using crypto
0:18:41.270,0:18:46.190
currencies is securely storing your
0:18:43.460,0:18:48.799
private keys and not having to trust
0:18:46.190,0:18:51.679
other people because like you said you
0:18:48.799,0:18:53.390
can make copies of the sea' phrase you
0:18:51.679,0:18:55.100
could split your seed phrase which can
0:18:53.390,0:18:57.919
be very dangerous if you don't know what
0:18:55.100,0:18:59.780
they're doing but handing out a you know
0:18:57.919,0:19:03.799
if you if your seed freezes in two
0:18:59.780,0:19:05.570
locations at once and but you cannot
0:19:03.799,0:19:07.429
physically be in two locations at once
0:19:05.570,0:19:10.280
then you cannot know if you're a seed
0:19:07.429,0:19:11.510
phrase that's been compromised the same
0:19:10.280,0:19:12.860
thing is true if you split your seed
0:19:11.510,0:19:13.610
phrase and you have half here and half
0:19:12.860,0:19:15.350
somewhere else
0:19:13.610,0:19:19.070
you don't know someone's obtained that
0:19:15.350,0:19:23.299
other half with that half they now have
0:19:19.070,0:19:25.309
potentially the ability to to decrypt
0:19:23.299,0:19:26.750
your entire seed phrase if they can you
0:19:25.309,0:19:28.669
know iterate on it enough with the
0:19:26.750,0:19:33.200
proper software they could crack that
0:19:28.669,0:19:35.270
private key so yeah probably
0:19:33.200,0:19:37.309
you know ski security is a huge problem
0:19:35.270,0:19:40.270
fortunately we have a lot of smart
0:19:37.309,0:19:43.669
people working on this cold card wallet
0:19:40.270,0:19:45.860
by Rodolfo Novak in Canada who's also
0:19:43.669,0:19:47.630
the the creator opened on through this
0:19:45.860,0:19:50.210
company coin kite they're working on
0:19:47.630,0:19:55.190
incredibly important products and
0:19:50.210,0:19:56.600
companies like Jameson's lops cost Patil
0:19:55.190,0:19:59.000
and then you have the samurai Wallet
0:19:56.600,0:20:00.860
dojo no but and then you have all these
0:19:59.000,0:20:04.070
these companies that make these hardware
0:20:00.860,0:20:05.630
or these see phrase you know hard met
0:20:04.070,0:20:07.190
metallic ways to store your see phrase
0:20:05.630,0:20:08.990
these are all these are all important
0:20:07.190,0:20:12.110
technologies that allow people to store
0:20:08.990,0:20:13.460
their stuff but again you you really do
0:20:12.110,0:20:15.290
like you mentioned you really do need a
0:20:13.460,0:20:16.610
secure location to store this and
0:20:15.290,0:20:18.770
putting it in your brain is not
0:20:16.610,0:20:22.490
necessarily the safest a secure way to
0:20:18.770,0:20:26.000
do you I think it's also a lot better
0:20:22.490,0:20:27.670
than pulling all of your cat in your
0:20:26.000,0:20:30.670
house
0:20:27.670,0:20:33.400
but I've also heard the people who I'm
0:20:30.670,0:20:36.190
not sure who it was but if I think very
0:20:33.400,0:20:39.010
hard I can remember there was news about
0:20:36.190,0:20:41.860
somebody holding his private keys in a
0:20:39.010,0:20:44.110
bank account but in the kind of bank
0:20:41.860,0:20:48.910
safes that get with your account and you
0:20:44.110,0:20:53.440
get to store your belongings with a key
0:20:48.910,0:20:56.440
that you only only you possess that's
0:20:53.440,0:21:00.010
kind of ironic to use the services of
0:20:56.440,0:21:01.270
banks to store your private keys I think
0:21:00.010,0:21:05.980
it is ironic and I think it's very
0:21:01.270,0:21:09.880
dangerous now of course it's dangerous
0:21:05.980,0:21:13.030
it's a trusted third party then again
0:21:09.880,0:21:18.000
even software that is not open source
0:21:13.030,0:21:20.140
and not consulted by or verified by
0:21:18.000,0:21:22.600
cryptography and computer science
0:21:20.140,0:21:25.210
experts that's dangerous and I think
0:21:22.600,0:21:28.450
very recently we have seen a hack in
0:21:25.210,0:21:32.980
Konomi wallet where they were there was
0:21:28.450,0:21:35.410
this API from Google which helped with
0:21:32.980,0:21:38.380
the autocorrect part for the seat keys
0:21:35.410,0:21:41.740
and the data was sent to a Google server
0:21:38.380,0:21:45.549
about the words that were typed for the
0:21:41.740,0:21:47.860
seat key or C phrase and somebody has
0:21:45.549,0:21:52.080
hacked into the wallet and stole about I
0:21:47.860,0:21:54.760
think it was $60,000 worth of Bitcoin
0:21:52.080,0:21:57.070
which is insane if you think about it
0:21:54.760,0:21:59.950
this there was this small security hole
0:21:57.070,0:22:04.540
which was caused by a trusted third
0:21:59.950,0:22:06.700
party in in this case autocorrect
0:22:04.540,0:22:08.980
services and you had this engineer on
0:22:06.700,0:22:13.059
the other end who got the words and
0:22:08.980,0:22:17.020
figured out maybe that they grant access
0:22:13.059,0:22:19.900
to a wallet right and all he had to do
0:22:17.020,0:22:25.299
was just input these and move the money
0:22:19.900,0:22:26.799
away and that's it yeah yeah you don't
0:22:25.299,0:22:28.390
hear a lot of people talking about this
0:22:26.799,0:22:31.299
out in the wild you know you don't hear
0:22:28.390,0:22:32.410
these stories but they are very real and
0:22:31.299,0:22:34.929
they're in there
0:22:32.410,0:22:36.730
that's dangerous in fact just using
0:22:34.929,0:22:38.740
Bitcoin out in the wild exposes you to
0:22:36.730,0:22:40.690
risks like this and this is one of the
0:22:38.740,0:22:42.730
reasons why I'm very very particular
0:22:40.690,0:22:46.270
about the hardware and software that I
0:22:42.730,0:22:48.130
use is because this isn't a game and all
0:22:46.270,0:22:49.720
these you know this is this is why all
0:22:48.130,0:22:51.370
coins are in Korea or even more
0:22:49.720,0:22:53.530
dangerous because the software that
0:22:51.370,0:22:55.270
these awkward's are using or even less
0:22:53.530,0:22:57.250
they're they're they're reviewed by
0:22:55.270,0:22:59.740
almost nobody almost nobody is actually
0:22:57.250,0:23:01.960
reviewing the code and actually knows
0:22:59.740,0:23:04.090
all these risks and so you can you know
0:23:01.960,0:23:05.740
yeah you can support like you know your
0:23:04.090,0:23:06.940
wallet Konomi it was more like five
0:23:05.740,0:23:09.370
hundred all coins but none of that
0:23:06.940,0:23:11.950
matters when you can't store anything
0:23:09.370,0:23:13.330
securely on it in the first place
0:23:11.950,0:23:16.120
there's been a number of exchanges that
0:23:13.330,0:23:18.490
have been hacked because they as we know
0:23:16.120,0:23:20.110
even some who they were hacked because
0:23:18.490,0:23:21.610
they implemented an altcoin and they
0:23:20.110,0:23:24.940
didn't review the code and the altcoin
0:23:21.610,0:23:27.570
itself contain an exploit that that was
0:23:24.940,0:23:30.220
used to steal money from the exchange
0:23:27.570,0:23:32.850
among among all the other ways that you
0:23:30.220,0:23:35.530
can lose your money from exchanges but
0:23:32.850,0:23:37.450
yeah there's there's so many possible
0:23:35.530,0:23:39.909
ways that things can go bad in the
0:23:37.450,0:23:42.280
crypto space that again I I don't
0:23:39.909,0:23:44.799
recommend people buy Bitcoin if they're
0:23:42.280,0:23:47.020
not if they don't first learn about how
0:23:44.799,0:23:48.460
to secure it properly so that's usually
0:23:47.020,0:23:49.929
where I start is I usually actually
0:23:48.460,0:23:52.690
tries to I start by actually trying to
0:23:49.929,0:23:54.250
scare them into understanding how what
0:23:52.690,0:23:55.750
they are really storing like what
0:23:54.250,0:23:57.850
they're really holding here is there
0:23:55.750,0:24:00.490
there's there's no there's nobody there
0:23:57.850,0:24:03.100
to bail them out if they're not if they
0:24:00.490,0:24:04.980
make the wrong move so it's an every man
0:24:03.100,0:24:07.750
for himself with all the medicines oh
0:24:04.980,0:24:10.539
yeah that's why sometimes I recommend
0:24:07.750,0:24:13.480
people to buy some kind of out coins to
0:24:10.539,0:24:16.559
learn about how wallets work so if you
0:24:13.480,0:24:19.360
lose like $20 worth of dodge going or
0:24:16.559,0:24:20.980
litecoin oil or Bitcoin cash I don't
0:24:19.360,0:24:23.559
think that's going to matter in the
0:24:20.980,0:24:26.200
grand scheme of things I don't feel like
0:24:23.559,0:24:29.710
you're losing too much and it doesn't
0:24:26.200,0:24:33.610
influence the supply of Bitcoin right
0:24:29.710,0:24:36.610
God more coins to be lost that we have
0:24:33.610,0:24:40.299
gold and we also have smaller projects
0:24:36.610,0:24:41.929
which may just be like stones that you
0:24:40.299,0:24:46.610
throw at people
0:24:41.929,0:24:51.259
and you try to present them as valuable
0:24:46.610,0:24:54.619
to some fools might buy them but if you
0:24:51.259,0:24:56.809
learn what out coins about wallets and
0:24:54.619,0:24:59.919
about exchanges and about security
0:24:56.809,0:25:03.649
that's useful to move to Bitcoin so
0:24:59.919,0:25:06.350
sometimes I think that alt coins that
0:25:03.649,0:25:08.629
are not necessarily malevolent and that
0:25:06.350,0:25:12.440
can be found on any exchange can be
0:25:08.629,0:25:13.999
great gateway drugs to Bitcoin I like
0:25:12.440,0:25:15.230
that you refer to me as gateway drugs
0:25:13.999,0:25:16.879
because that's kind of the way I like to
0:25:15.230,0:25:18.409
think of them as well and that's why I
0:25:16.879,0:25:20.360
don't really mind if people use them
0:25:18.409,0:25:23.210
early on because I think they're gonna
0:25:20.360,0:25:24.499
get burned no matter what and but at
0:25:23.210,0:25:26.690
least they will learn a lot along the
0:25:24.499,0:25:31.940
way and at least hopefully they didn't
0:25:26.690,0:25:34.690
lose any bitcoins yeah sometimes I talk
0:25:31.940,0:25:36.590
to people I mean I have done some
0:25:34.690,0:25:38.809
copywriting for the light going
0:25:36.590,0:25:41.450
Foundation and found some really nice
0:25:38.809,0:25:43.820
people who are enthusiastic and they see
0:25:41.450,0:25:47.240
a lot of value and litecoin which I no
0:25:43.820,0:25:49.909
longer see personally I can understand
0:25:47.240,0:25:52.580
the criticism I can see why they decided
0:25:49.909,0:25:55.669
to implement confidential transactions
0:25:52.580,0:25:57.799
with minimal Wimble as there was really
0:25:55.669,0:26:02.049
nothing special about like going after
0:25:57.799,0:26:04.820
it had that phase of testing Segway and
0:26:02.049,0:26:07.730
doing some tests with the Lightning
0:26:04.820,0:26:12.379
Network which right now has almost no
0:26:07.730,0:26:14.570
development or litecoin so they do stand
0:26:12.379,0:26:17.600
out some way and provide something that
0:26:14.570,0:26:20.149
Bitcoin doesn't already have and it's
0:26:17.600,0:26:23.179
great that they experiment with member
0:26:20.149,0:26:26.210
Wimble as we might get that into Bitcoin
0:26:23.179,0:26:29.509
at some point in the future so it's an
0:26:26.210,0:26:32.659
interesting experiment that whose
0:26:29.509,0:26:36.049
results are very useful for the digital
0:26:32.659,0:26:38.539
gold that we know and love yeah who
0:26:36.049,0:26:40.100
knows you know well first of all we'll
0:26:38.539,0:26:42.200
see if that's even possible for them to
0:26:40.100,0:26:44.419
implement extension blocks for
0:26:42.200,0:26:47.840
nimble Wimble and that's fine if they
0:26:44.419,0:26:49.610
want to experiment with that I I have a
0:26:47.840,0:26:51.619
serious problem with them promoting it
0:26:49.610,0:26:53.629
as something you should use for storing
0:26:51.619,0:26:54.799
money because that's incredibly
0:26:53.629,0:26:55.340
dangerous to be storing money in
0:26:54.799,0:26:56.780
something that's
0:26:55.340,0:26:59.060
gonna be used for something highly
0:26:56.780,0:27:00.950
experimental in an industry that's
0:26:59.060,0:27:04.580
already dangerous to be using he's
0:27:00.950,0:27:07.010
software so you know but again I agree
0:27:04.580,0:27:09.350
that that's that that's exactly where
0:27:07.010,0:27:10.400
that's exactly what if all coins are
0:27:09.350,0:27:12.500
gonna be used for that's what they
0:27:10.400,0:27:14.480
should be used for as we have talked
0:27:12.500,0:27:16.580
before I take no issue with
0:27:14.480,0:27:19.040
experimentation I just have problems
0:27:16.580,0:27:23.180
with marketing apparently with all coins
0:27:19.040,0:27:25.700
oh yeah and sometimes I that side of
0:27:23.180,0:27:27.860
marketing makes people huddled the wrong
0:27:25.700,0:27:30.830
coins and I remember that whole
0:27:27.860,0:27:32.450
situation with grin when it was first
0:27:30.830,0:27:34.490
launched and they thought it's the new
0:27:32.450,0:27:37.790
Bitcoin and they put a lot of bitcoins
0:27:34.490,0:27:40.700
into it on decentralized exchanges and
0:27:37.790,0:27:45.110
they got rekt because the supply makes
0:27:40.700,0:27:48.560
sure that you should send grain as fast
0:27:45.110,0:27:51.260
as possible so it retains the same value
0:27:48.560,0:27:54.350
in Bitcoin or else you're going to get
0:27:51.260,0:27:58.540
rekt and there is no point to huddle it
0:27:54.350,0:28:02.180
as it keeps inflating at a rate that I
0:27:58.540,0:28:04.340
don't think there will ever be any kind
0:28:02.180,0:28:07.700
of massive profits for those who
0:28:04.340,0:28:09.740
invested mm-hmm but it's this cyberpunk
0:28:07.700,0:28:12.290
invention that's meant to be pride by
0:28:09.740,0:28:15.890
than quick it's made for people who
0:28:12.290,0:28:18.980
transact in a private way and don't care
0:28:15.890,0:28:21.440
about huddling it has an infinite supply
0:28:18.980,0:28:24.140
just like Manero and you you're not
0:28:21.440,0:28:26.990
supposed to hold it that's the whole
0:28:24.140,0:28:30.140
point but people just see a speculative
0:28:26.990,0:28:32.990
investments in anything but they forget
0:28:30.140,0:28:35.240
about this aspect of scarcity which is
0:28:32.990,0:28:37.760
an important factor which grants
0:28:35.240,0:28:39.410
anything value yeah
0:28:37.760,0:28:41.270
and you know one thing to keep in mind
0:28:39.410,0:28:43.310
is even something that doesn't even
0:28:41.270,0:28:47.360
something that has a supply cap like the
0:28:43.310,0:28:49.550
beam version of memorable or you know
0:28:47.360,0:28:52.040
ripple or whatever like when they have
0:28:49.550,0:28:54.860
supply caps but that that doesn't really
0:28:52.040,0:28:57.080
matter when you consider that long term
0:28:54.860,0:29:00.290
they're not secure they could for a
0:28:57.080,0:29:01.700
Wilfork there will be new new versions
0:29:00.290,0:29:03.230
there will be new all coins created that
0:29:01.700,0:29:05.750
will be marketed to do exactly what
0:29:03.230,0:29:08.160
those all coins are doing today so this
0:29:05.750,0:29:10.590
idea of digital scarcity
0:29:08.160,0:29:13.650
um you know we have to think about a
0:29:10.590,0:29:15.570
long long term if these projects can
0:29:13.650,0:29:17.280
actually maintain or could actually be
0:29:15.570,0:29:20.460
decentralized which I don't believe they
0:29:17.280,0:29:23.220
can be and in my article about all
0:29:20.460,0:29:27.750
cording scams basically I explained that
0:29:23.220,0:29:30.450
that they can be scarce and and the only
0:29:27.750,0:29:32.280
all coins that are actually
0:29:30.450,0:29:34.650
decentralized are already dead
0:29:32.280,0:29:36.540
because the only successful all coins
0:29:34.650,0:29:38.640
are all coins that have been marketed by
0:29:36.540,0:29:41.220
a marketing team they've had people
0:29:38.640,0:29:42.750
behind them who's expended extraordinary
0:29:41.220,0:29:45.240
amount of resources marketing men in
0:29:42.750,0:29:47.870
order to profit from them and so you
0:29:45.240,0:29:51.090
continue to see today that the primary
0:29:47.870,0:29:55.650
altcoins you know are you know fearian
0:29:51.090,0:29:57.540
ripple litecoin cash you know tron etc
0:29:55.650,0:29:59.700
you look at those ones they are
0:29:57.540,0:30:01.500
centralized because they are marketed by
0:29:59.700,0:30:02.880
centralized companies if they in
0:30:01.500,0:30:04.500
organizations if they weren't being
0:30:02.880,0:30:06.300
marketed they would have already died a
0:30:04.500,0:30:08.130
long time ago which means that they
0:30:06.300,0:30:10.440
can't they can't be decentralized if
0:30:08.130,0:30:12.060
they were decentralized then they would
0:30:10.440,0:30:16.020
have nobody running them and they went
0:30:12.060,0:30:19.350
wither away on this podcast I usually
0:30:16.020,0:30:21.980
like to talk about political topics and
0:30:19.350,0:30:25.290
world politics and how Bitcoin
0:30:21.980,0:30:27.540
influences it and from this marketing
0:30:25.290,0:30:30.390
point of view that you mentioned I can
0:30:27.540,0:30:33.960
understand why the US government hates
0:30:30.390,0:30:36.930
Bitcoin and probably tries as hard as
0:30:33.960,0:30:42.390
they can to promote American companies
0:30:36.930,0:30:44.790
that have projects like XRP that can be
0:30:42.390,0:30:47.730
controlled and can be leveraged and can
0:30:44.790,0:30:51.390
be turned into something that respects
0:30:47.730,0:30:53.820
every kind of regulation and I think Zee
0:30:51.390,0:30:56.550
cash is also from this kind of category
0:30:53.820,0:31:00.930
as they stated that they want to be
0:30:56.550,0:31:03.330
private by not serving criminals which I
0:31:00.930,0:31:08.220
don't think makes any sense how can you
0:31:03.330,0:31:11.910
be private and provide true confidential
0:31:08.220,0:31:14.970
transactions between parties if you are
0:31:11.910,0:31:15.570
able to rule out the bad actors from the
0:31:14.970,0:31:17.670
good ones
0:31:15.570,0:31:19.350
that doesn't make any sense it just
0:31:17.670,0:31:21.809
means that they have some kind of
0:31:19.350,0:31:26.129
tracking involved
0:31:21.809,0:31:29.159
but I sometimes think that Bitcoin even
0:31:26.129,0:31:30.929
though it's an American invention and if
0:31:29.159,0:31:33.590
you look at the white paper you're going
0:31:30.929,0:31:36.869
to see a lot of names of American
0:31:33.590,0:31:40.429
cryptographers who laid the foundations
0:31:36.869,0:31:43.769
for this invention to get released and
0:31:40.429,0:31:46.739
even though it's American in its era and
0:31:43.769,0:31:48.929
and its developments it works against
0:31:46.739,0:31:52.440
the interest of the United States in
0:31:48.929,0:31:54.629
terms of foreign politics as I don't
0:31:52.440,0:31:56.849
think they would ever want then Israel
0:31:54.629,0:31:59.279
are to getting money they wouldn't want
0:31:56.849,0:32:01.710
Palestine to get any money even one
0:31:59.279,0:32:04.169
North Korea to get money and that's why
0:32:01.710,0:32:07.049
they have international embargoes and a
0:32:04.169,0:32:09.570
whole international system that they
0:32:07.049,0:32:13.679
control and leverage however they please
0:32:09.570,0:32:16.710
and they can make their allies not
0:32:13.679,0:32:19.950
engage in to trade with the countries
0:32:16.710,0:32:23.789
that they don't like which in a sense is
0:32:19.950,0:32:26.789
unfair if you ask me we should allow
0:32:23.789,0:32:29.009
markets to be free and we should we
0:32:26.789,0:32:31.169
should not just put people in a
0:32:29.009,0:32:34.440
situation of poverty just because we
0:32:31.169,0:32:36.629
don't like their leaders mm-hmm like it
0:32:34.440,0:32:41.309
happens with Venezuela which actually is
0:32:36.629,0:32:44.849
a very rich country in resources so I
0:32:41.309,0:32:47.940
think these cypherpunks who lay the
0:32:44.849,0:32:50.820
foundation of Bitcoin actually see
0:32:47.940,0:32:53.450
something greater than the vision of
0:32:50.820,0:32:57.239
United States in terms of foreign policy
0:32:53.450,0:33:00.089
but at the same time I sometimes stop
0:32:57.239,0:33:03.299
and wonder are we actually serving the
0:33:00.089,0:33:05.219
Russian foreign interests as Bitcoin
0:33:03.299,0:33:08.339
seems to be very compatible with
0:33:05.219,0:33:12.299
whatever they're planning for the world
0:33:08.339,0:33:15.419
politics for who the Russian you say
0:33:12.299,0:33:18.210
yeah the Russians I mean there was even
0:33:15.419,0:33:20.489
that rumor that Vladimir Putin was
0:33:18.210,0:33:23.849
interested in purchasing some bitcoins
0:33:20.489,0:33:26.669
and Russia is under scrutiny for
0:33:23.849,0:33:30.080
invading Crimea which took place I think
0:33:26.669,0:33:32.879
in 2016 and they have been under very
0:33:30.080,0:33:35.500
strong financial sanctions and they're
0:33:32.879,0:33:38.950
not able to engage in trade for
0:33:35.500,0:33:42.880
several resources with the European
0:33:38.950,0:33:46.000
Union and United States and all of their
0:33:42.880,0:33:49.750
allies and it makes a lot of sense for
0:33:46.000,0:33:52.290
the leader of this big world power to
0:33:49.750,0:33:56.860
try to use a mean which bypasses this
0:33:52.290,0:33:59.290
international banking system so yeah at
0:33:56.860,0:34:02.470
this point in time we can say that
0:33:59.290,0:34:05.470
bitcoin is more favorable to Russia than
0:34:02.470,0:34:07.930
it is to the United States but it's
0:34:05.470,0:34:10.480
neutral so this situation can change at
0:34:07.930,0:34:13.169
any point in time yeah I mean I think
0:34:10.480,0:34:16.270
what's interesting about this is that
0:34:13.169,0:34:18.639
Bitcoin empowers individuals obvious way
0:34:16.270,0:34:22.240
to opt-out but it also empowers any
0:34:18.639,0:34:24.520
entity to opt out on a large scale and I
0:34:22.240,0:34:27.580
think you make an excellent point and I
0:34:24.520,0:34:30.250
definitely agree with you that you know
0:34:27.580,0:34:34.629
financial sanctions on other countries
0:34:30.250,0:34:35.740
as a way of as a way of waging war is is
0:34:34.629,0:34:37.210
incredibly hypocritical
0:34:35.740,0:34:39.730
for a country that claims that free
0:34:37.210,0:34:42.659
markets are what liberal liberal you
0:34:39.730,0:34:47.110
know the greater liberalize societies
0:34:42.659,0:34:49.840
you can't on one hand you know like
0:34:47.110,0:34:51.429
promote democracy and freedom and on the
0:34:49.840,0:34:53.470
other hand you don't allow people to
0:34:51.429,0:34:55.179
trade with each other so you are
0:34:53.470,0:34:59.950
essentially you're essentially punishing
0:34:55.179,0:35:03.070
the population and because you don't
0:34:59.950,0:35:04.840
agree with their leadership and not only
0:35:03.070,0:35:07.330
that their leadership doesn't even have
0:35:04.840,0:35:09.130
a chance to even succeed when they don't
0:35:07.330,0:35:11.740
have access to a financial system so
0:35:09.130,0:35:15.400
it's a catch-22 these many of these
0:35:11.740,0:35:19.240
countries are in they it doesn't matter
0:35:15.400,0:35:22.540
if even if they have good you know good
0:35:19.240,0:35:24.880
intentions they can't even they can't
0:35:22.540,0:35:26.350
even try to prove that because they're
0:35:24.880,0:35:27.790
already locked out of the existing
0:35:26.350,0:35:30.430
financial system so they're already
0:35:27.790,0:35:33.160
being you know they're being punished
0:35:30.430,0:35:35.440
the population of being punished it's
0:35:33.160,0:35:39.400
unfair it's not fair competitive
0:35:35.440,0:35:42.700
practices and it is I mean the financial
0:35:39.400,0:35:45.460
system today is the primary method of of
0:35:42.700,0:35:47.710
warfare in my opinion yeah there is
0:35:45.460,0:35:49.120
physical warfare bombs and missiles and
0:35:47.710,0:35:51.830
troops
0:35:49.120,0:35:54.650
however or the financial warfare is
0:35:51.830,0:35:57.620
almost more debilitating because it's
0:35:54.650,0:36:00.350
incredibly easy to to you know shut down
0:35:57.620,0:36:01.940
an economy and then you know use a bunch
0:36:00.350,0:36:04.190
of propaganda to try to convince that
0:36:01.940,0:36:05.630
population that the reason that their
0:36:04.190,0:36:07.490
country is failing is because of their
0:36:05.630,0:36:09.050
leadership when actuality they simply
0:36:07.490,0:36:11.660
don't have access of the financial
0:36:09.050,0:36:15.470
system and they cannot engage in fair
0:36:11.660,0:36:17.360
trade across borders yeah this is a sort
0:36:15.470,0:36:20.510
of cognitive dissonance that most
0:36:17.360,0:36:22.520
Americans don't even understand most
0:36:20.510,0:36:24.140
people you know I don't interact with
0:36:22.520,0:36:25.610
anybody on the regular basis who cares
0:36:24.140,0:36:28.010
about this things or even understands
0:36:25.610,0:36:30.260
them however I think that people in
0:36:28.010,0:36:32.630
other countries definitely understand
0:36:30.260,0:36:34.850
this problem and they are in a way you
0:36:32.630,0:36:37.670
know it's kind of ironic I think that
0:36:34.850,0:36:39.020
the more you the more that as now that
0:36:37.670,0:36:42.290
bitcoin is available to these countries
0:36:39.020,0:36:44.810
for removing value across borders it's
0:36:42.290,0:36:45.950
sort of like the United States is slowly
0:36:44.810,0:36:48.740
digging its own grave
0:36:45.950,0:36:50.180
because the the more that we repress
0:36:48.740,0:36:52.490
these countries the more we actually
0:36:50.180,0:36:54.170
push them into Bitcoin and into systems
0:36:52.490,0:36:56.450
that they will be able to use to
0:36:54.170,0:37:00.140
transact each other outside of the
0:36:56.450,0:37:01.460
existing monetary system and so control
0:37:00.140,0:37:03.740
of the monetary system there is
0:37:01.460,0:37:06.680
absolutely no doubt that has been the
0:37:03.740,0:37:09.260
primary method of controlling
0:37:06.680,0:37:13.250
nation-states by the West for the last
0:37:09.260,0:37:15.830
hundred years knowing what the United
0:37:13.250,0:37:18.650
States has done in Latin America what
0:37:15.830,0:37:22.400
Pinochet during the Nixon administration
0:37:18.650,0:37:23.830
I think that in some ways may be that
0:37:22.400,0:37:26.720
it's better to impose financial
0:37:23.830,0:37:30.440
sanctions then actually get him off with
0:37:26.720,0:37:33.050
your Secret Service and military but
0:37:30.440,0:37:34.690
then again I don't think there is any
0:37:33.050,0:37:37.610
right or wrong way
0:37:34.690,0:37:39.620
I'm all for peace and peaceful methods
0:37:37.610,0:37:41.570
and you should not kill civilians just
0:37:39.620,0:37:44.660
because you want you don't like
0:37:41.570,0:37:46.790
somebody's government but at the same
0:37:44.660,0:37:50.470
time you can argue that you kill their
0:37:46.790,0:37:50.470
civilians by starving them
0:37:50.520,0:37:56.550
yeah yeah that's you know one of the one
0:37:53.850,0:37:58.110
of the problems really with that also is
0:37:56.550,0:38:01.440
the this organization called the
0:37:58.110,0:38:03.840
International Monetary Fund which is a
0:38:01.440,0:38:07.250
essentially acts as a bank to these
0:38:03.840,0:38:10.380
countries by providing them with loans
0:38:07.250,0:38:12.360
but when they get these loans from the
0:38:10.380,0:38:15.600
International Monetary Fund they come
0:38:12.360,0:38:18.390
with very very strong strings attached
0:38:15.600,0:38:20.880
and so when the Monetary Fund provides
0:38:18.390,0:38:23.460
these cutters with a loan it is
0:38:20.880,0:38:27.140
typically required in the contract that
0:38:23.460,0:38:30.020
these loans have to be used to pay
0:38:27.140,0:38:32.580
American companies or foreign companies
0:38:30.020,0:38:35.700
to do the work and it gives these
0:38:32.580,0:38:37.680
countries access to the resources of
0:38:35.700,0:38:43.020
that country so many many countries in
0:38:37.680,0:38:45.600
Latin America have taken IMF loans which
0:38:43.020,0:38:47.520
are essentially it's impossible for them
0:38:45.600,0:38:51.420
to pay them back without giving up
0:38:47.520,0:38:53.340
sovereignty and so even even when these
0:38:51.420,0:38:56.490
even when we put in place a government
0:38:53.340,0:38:58.410
supposedly that we that is you know
0:38:56.490,0:38:59.640
pro-western government or whatever you
0:38:58.410,0:39:02.070
want to call it even if we put in place
0:38:59.640,0:39:04.710
a pro-western government we can still
0:39:02.070,0:39:07.490
undermine that government by essentially
0:39:04.710,0:39:10.560
you know enslaving the population with a
0:39:07.490,0:39:12.990
huge loan that these countries have to
0:39:10.560,0:39:14.640
pay off but they can't pay off and the
0:39:12.990,0:39:16.760
only way they could pay them off would
0:39:14.640,0:39:20.070
be to keep selling off their resources
0:39:16.760,0:39:21.720
and so over time this creates a lot of
0:39:20.070,0:39:24.630
problems because the populations that
0:39:21.720,0:39:25.859
these countries they these you know they
0:39:24.630,0:39:28.020
don't they don't get access to the
0:39:25.859,0:39:30.840
resources they the resources end up
0:39:28.020,0:39:35.760
getting sold other countries and Luco
0:39:30.840,0:39:37.440
and pushed overseas so you know and in
0:39:35.760,0:39:41.010
the United States definitely I mean if
0:39:37.440,0:39:43.140
you look at Iran back in the 1950s right
0:39:41.010,0:39:47.880
the you know the government then was
0:39:43.140,0:39:49.890
actually very Pro Western prior to the
0:39:47.880,0:39:55.380
Shah when the Shah of Iran was put in
0:39:49.890,0:39:57.090
power prior to 1952 the governments in
0:39:55.380,0:39:59.210
the Middle East were actually very Pro
0:39:57.090,0:40:02.930
Western they were very modern
0:39:59.210,0:40:04.640
and but they were also becoming popular
0:40:02.930,0:40:06.290
and they were also taking control of
0:40:04.640,0:40:09.140
their resources and so it's really a
0:40:06.290,0:40:12.500
battle for resources and that is
0:40:09.140,0:40:14.510
primarily why these countries have taken
0:40:12.500,0:40:15.710
these loans as they need the money in
0:40:14.510,0:40:18.380
order to get the money they have to give
0:40:15.710,0:40:19.760
up their resources and that is you know
0:40:18.380,0:40:21.320
that's really when it comes down to I
0:40:19.760,0:40:23.390
mean why is the United States so
0:40:21.320,0:40:24.650
interested in Venezuela the only reason
0:40:23.390,0:40:26.960
the United States interests in Venezuela
0:40:24.650,0:40:31.880
it's because Venezuela has a lot of oil
0:40:26.960,0:40:33.920
and that's very obvious yeah but I guess
0:40:31.880,0:40:36.890
this is part of the agreement which was
0:40:33.920,0:40:40.010
made after World War two when they
0:40:36.890,0:40:43.150
decided that it's better to have this
0:40:40.010,0:40:46.420
kind of World Order that is based on
0:40:43.150,0:40:50.990
economic cooperation as opposed to
0:40:46.420,0:40:54.080
building armies and trying to deter the
0:40:50.990,0:40:56.330
other or threaten your neighbor with the
0:40:54.080,0:41:00.140
kind of military power that you have and
0:40:56.330,0:41:02.060
I guess we have entrusted the freedom of
0:41:00.140,0:41:05.660
the world in the hands of the United
0:41:02.060,0:41:08.000
States and they even had an antagonist
0:41:05.660,0:41:10.550
on the other side of the world which was
0:41:08.000,0:41:14.060
the tellurian and did not give any kind
0:41:10.550,0:41:16.700
of freedoms mm-hmm now I guess it's
0:41:14.060,0:41:19.760
getting more ambiguous as the United
0:41:16.700,0:41:22.190
States is not as free at ease as it used
0:41:19.760,0:41:26.300
to be but it's not like Russia is any
0:41:22.190,0:41:30.349
better or country which is very close to
0:41:26.300,0:41:33.290
Russia and we like to say that if the
0:41:30.349,0:41:35.690
United States gives up on protecting us
0:41:33.290,0:41:40.070
tomorrow then the Russians can actually
0:41:35.690,0:41:44.450
take over and conquer us in a matter of
0:41:40.070,0:41:46.010
weeks maybe days yeah I mean it's
0:41:44.450,0:41:47.510
definitely it's definitely a problem and
0:41:46.010,0:41:49.130
I'm not trying to say any of these
0:41:47.510,0:41:50.690
countries are innocent by any means or
0:41:49.130,0:41:52.339
in these leaders are innocent but I
0:41:50.690,0:41:54.710
figured the problem of monetary
0:41:52.339,0:41:56.540
sovereignty the problem essentially of
0:41:54.710,0:41:59.330
you know control of a country's money
0:41:56.540,0:42:01.609
supply and central banking it destroys
0:41:59.330,0:42:03.680
countries across the planet and it
0:42:01.609,0:42:06.440
destroys societies across the planet
0:42:03.680,0:42:08.690
because fundamentally people need a way
0:42:06.440,0:42:10.550
to store value and save money and you
0:42:08.690,0:42:12.190
know that's true in any society no
0:42:10.550,0:42:14.920
matter what country you're in
0:42:12.190,0:42:17.049
and yeah i think bitcoin is a threat to
0:42:14.920,0:42:19.660
every single government Western and
0:42:17.049,0:42:22.089
Eastern and whatever you want because it
0:42:19.660,0:42:25.539
does it does take away their power to
0:42:22.089,0:42:27.579
control the individual and to and but
0:42:25.539,0:42:30.670
however you know the Bitcoin can also be
0:42:27.579,0:42:33.130
used for for doing transactions between
0:42:30.670,0:42:35.200
countries there's talk about Iran using
0:42:33.130,0:42:37.089
Bitcoin for making payments to other
0:42:35.200,0:42:39.640
countries you know in the old days they
0:42:37.089,0:42:41.529
used gold but gold is very easy to
0:42:39.640,0:42:43.569
censor and we've already seen that and
0:42:41.529,0:42:45.579
so you know there's problems you need to
0:42:43.569,0:42:47.680
move 50 tons of gold you need to you
0:42:45.579,0:42:49.210
know a billion dollars for the gold if
0:42:47.680,0:42:51.249
you need to move that between countries
0:42:49.210,0:42:53.529
that's incredibly difficult to move that
0:42:51.249,0:42:55.299
much gold and if you have to move it
0:42:53.529,0:42:58.420
with paper then you're just trusting
0:42:55.299,0:42:59.529
that that gold actually exists and that
0:42:58.420,0:43:00.999
they're actually going to redeem that
0:42:59.529,0:43:01.539
gold if it was ever needed to be
0:43:00.999,0:43:03.670
redeemed
0:43:01.539,0:43:05.890
so Bitcoin solves a pretty clear problem
0:43:03.670,0:43:08.019
for central banking there's a lot of
0:43:05.890,0:43:10.720
people in the Bitcoin space that they
0:43:08.019,0:43:13.749
subscribe to the nation' fearing of
0:43:10.720,0:43:15.700
money and I'm you know it there's a lot
0:43:13.749,0:43:18.009
of arguments about what is ideal money
0:43:15.700,0:43:20.559
but you know I think that we actually
0:43:18.009,0:43:21.880
don't know we actually don't know what
0:43:20.559,0:43:24.640
the social and political repercussions
0:43:21.880,0:43:27.609
of Bitcoin are yet you know we don't yet
0:43:24.640,0:43:29.319
actually know I think we will have a
0:43:27.609,0:43:31.319
better idea of that when the first
0:43:29.319,0:43:34.299
country actually starts officially
0:43:31.319,0:43:37.119
hoarding Bitcoin as part of their
0:43:34.299,0:43:38.950
central bank policy that is when the day
0:43:37.119,0:43:43.089
that is when things will really change
0:43:38.950,0:43:44.739
up until that point we don't know if
0:43:43.089,0:43:46.809
countries are already stocked with
0:43:44.739,0:43:48.819
Bitcoin it very it's very possible that
0:43:46.809,0:43:52.029
countries like Russia are already mining
0:43:48.819,0:43:53.799
Bitcoin and we don't know it yet yeah I
0:43:52.029,0:43:56.980
guess that's frightening when you think
0:43:53.799,0:44:00.999
about it as we can have very powerful
0:43:56.980,0:44:03.670
nation states that can have a big chunk
0:44:00.999,0:44:06.579
of coins and they have a lot of leverage
0:44:03.670,0:44:09.910
and they control a lot of bitcoins I
0:44:06.579,0:44:12.849
think we heard news about North Korea
0:44:09.910,0:44:15.660
trying to bypass their international
0:44:12.849,0:44:19.329
trade embargo is by mining Bitcoin and
0:44:15.660,0:44:21.759
then dumping it on exchanges to make
0:44:19.329,0:44:24.040
some dollars but I think at this point
0:44:21.759,0:44:27.430
in time when we speak
0:44:24.040,0:44:30.160
it's the hardest that it ever was to
0:44:27.430,0:44:32.830
actually buy some Bitcoin in a way that
0:44:30.160,0:44:36.610
you don't submit all of your personal
0:44:32.830,0:44:39.630
data yeah and if the the original
0:44:36.610,0:44:43.630
purpose has been defeated in terms of
0:44:39.630,0:44:46.330
Commerce unless you resort to methods
0:44:43.630,0:44:50.230
like coin join with was that be wallet
0:44:46.330,0:44:53.470
or whatever and if you just want to get
0:44:50.230,0:44:57.490
$100 worth of Bitcoin it's very
0:44:53.470,0:45:01.660
difficult to not do it with your ID and
0:44:57.490,0:45:03.760
some kind of kyc environment and it's an
0:45:01.660,0:45:06.040
international trend it's not just in the
0:45:03.760,0:45:09.160
United States all the exchanges are
0:45:06.040,0:45:12.610
required to ask for even more
0:45:09.160,0:45:15.430
information I think last week I read
0:45:12.610,0:45:18.250
something about bitstamp which is a very
0:45:15.430,0:45:21.220
reputed and respected exchange from
0:45:18.250,0:45:24.520
Europe asking way too many questions
0:45:21.220,0:45:26.770
about you and what you are planning to
0:45:24.520,0:45:29.950
do with your Bitcoin and how much you're
0:45:26.770,0:45:32.050
about to invest and that doesn't sing
0:45:29.950,0:45:34.510
well why do they even care they have
0:45:32.050,0:45:37.090
your name they have your personal data
0:45:34.510,0:45:39.630
they know your address why why do they
0:45:37.090,0:45:42.190
care what you do with your money after
0:45:39.630,0:45:47.320
yeah I think this is a huge problem
0:45:42.190,0:45:49.570
KIC AML exchanges they are following the
0:45:47.320,0:45:54.300
laws and they are businesses that make
0:45:49.570,0:45:56.440
money off fees for people trading so
0:45:54.300,0:45:58.390
unfortunately they're going to market to
0:45:56.440,0:46:00.820
newcomers and they're going to pull
0:45:58.390,0:46:02.680
newcomers in who are going to give up
0:46:00.820,0:46:05.950
their personal information in order to
0:46:02.680,0:46:07.270
obtain Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency and
0:46:05.950,0:46:09.310
they don't understand that they've
0:46:07.270,0:46:13.150
already given up some of their freedom
0:46:09.310,0:46:14.650
and privacy that information is will be
0:46:13.150,0:46:18.790
available to the government we have
0:46:14.650,0:46:22.630
already seen coin basis of submit lists
0:46:18.790,0:46:24.010
of users to the International or she's
0:46:22.630,0:46:27.540
made the Internal Revenue Service the
0:46:24.010,0:46:29.710
IRS the United States requested you know
0:46:27.540,0:46:31.150
documentation on who are the traders who
0:46:29.710,0:46:33.220
have traded more than twenty thousand
0:46:31.150,0:46:36.850
dollars with a Bitcoin and the coin base
0:46:33.220,0:46:37.740
gave them a list essentially and so if
0:46:36.850,0:46:41.490
you didn't pay your
0:46:37.740,0:46:43.110
taxes in that year and you use coinbase
0:46:41.490,0:46:46.260
it's very possible that you'll be
0:46:43.110,0:46:48.000
getting contacted by the IRS so on one
0:46:46.260,0:46:49.830
hand I think that there's there's the
0:46:48.000,0:46:52.230
privacy issue
0:46:49.830,0:46:53.670
I mean it's problem because now you have
0:46:52.230,0:46:55.160
to trust that all the people that work
0:46:53.670,0:46:58.110
at this company have access to your data
0:46:55.160,0:47:01.590
they know where you live they know your
0:46:58.110,0:47:02.820
name they can come to your house if you
0:47:01.590,0:47:05.820
know they could tell a friend or they
0:47:02.820,0:47:07.380
could sell your data to somebody else on
0:47:05.820,0:47:09.840
the black market who will then use that
0:47:07.380,0:47:12.570
data in a malicious way there's so many
0:47:09.840,0:47:15.840
problems that's why I'm really excited
0:47:12.570,0:47:20.369
for companies like Aztec oh if you're
0:47:15.840,0:47:22.500
familiar with Aztec o AZ Tec oh but they
0:47:20.369,0:47:25.770
have developed and they've been spending
0:47:22.500,0:47:28.860
a long time on developing a voucher
0:47:25.770,0:47:32.970
redemption service that allows you to
0:47:28.860,0:47:36.210
you know to anybody to essentially to
0:47:32.970,0:47:37.680
redeem Bitcoin just using a code and a
0:47:36.210,0:47:40.110
whole the whole idea for their platform
0:47:37.680,0:47:43.350
is that you don't you can you don't need
0:47:40.110,0:47:45.150
to submit kyc AML documentation now it
0:47:43.350,0:47:48.900
will depend on the local regulations but
0:47:45.150,0:47:51.810
the general idea is that is that you can
0:47:48.900,0:47:53.730
all you need to get that Bitcoin in your
0:47:51.810,0:47:55.410
wallet is you just need that redemption
0:47:53.730,0:47:57.330
code and you need to put an address into
0:47:55.410,0:47:59.070
one field you put the button and you've
0:47:57.330,0:48:01.350
got the Bitcoin so you could give you
0:47:59.070,0:48:02.760
could buy you could buy a voucher for
0:48:01.350,0:48:04.109
somebody else and give them that voucher
0:48:02.760,0:48:06.900
and that other person can redeem is
0:48:04.109,0:48:08.250
about you and so it opens up a lot of
0:48:06.900,0:48:10.350
opportunities for people to provide
0:48:08.250,0:48:12.780
services who are going to be middlemen
0:48:10.350,0:48:15.030
who are willing to give up some of their
0:48:12.780,0:48:17.580
maybe they're in identifying information
0:48:15.030,0:48:20.580
or it's a fee that middleman and then of
0:48:17.580,0:48:21.830
course there's Biscay isq exchange which
0:48:20.580,0:48:23.490
is a decentralized
0:48:21.830,0:48:28.590
application essentially that a
0:48:23.490,0:48:31.859
marketplace that allows people to to buy
0:48:28.590,0:48:33.330
and sell Bitcoin locally in you know
0:48:31.859,0:48:37.770
physically in front of each other and
0:48:33.330,0:48:40.050
and trade as well as in just in various
0:48:37.770,0:48:43.320
ways without having to use a centralized
0:48:40.050,0:48:44.400
exchange that requires kyc AML at just
0:48:43.320,0:48:45.990
just as we were talking earlier about
0:48:44.400,0:48:49.400
private keys being an important problem
0:48:45.990,0:48:50.589
like kyc AML is a another big problem
0:48:49.400,0:48:51.789
actually
0:48:50.589,0:48:54.999
this is one of the more terrifying
0:48:51.789,0:48:58.930
things about the crate right is that he
0:48:54.999,0:49:00.430
seems to be totally okay with he seems
0:48:58.930,0:49:02.049
to totally trust government's and the
0:49:00.430,0:49:04.329
government's and people that work in
0:49:02.049,0:49:06.160
governments have our interests at heart
0:49:04.329,0:49:08.309
and that's that's actually terribly
0:49:06.160,0:49:10.119
frightening especially in a world where
0:49:08.309,0:49:12.279
you know if you have to submit
0:49:10.119,0:49:15.099
information about yourself and you own
0:49:12.279,0:49:17.049
Bitcoin to a service and the people that
0:49:15.099,0:49:19.630
you submitted your your information to
0:49:17.049,0:49:24.309
know that you have Bitcoin that's that's
0:49:19.630,0:49:26.229
a huge risk I agree with you and I also
0:49:24.309,0:49:29.559
don't like the idea that right now on
0:49:26.229,0:49:33.789
local local bitcoins you find a lot of
0:49:29.559,0:49:36.460
people who prefer to use credit cards
0:49:33.789,0:49:39.339
for transfers so instead of meeting in
0:49:36.460,0:49:43.029
person in a public space and exchanging
0:49:39.339,0:49:47.019
a certain amount of Bitcoin for the
0:49:43.029,0:49:51.130
corresponding Mountain cash they resort
0:49:47.019,0:49:53.940
to this easy but ultimately flawed
0:49:51.130,0:50:00.239
method of using credit cards which
0:49:53.940,0:50:00.239
actually enable all the KYC in process
0:50:00.479,0:50:05.829
yeah it's a it's definitely a problem I
0:50:03.729,0:50:07.749
definitely prefer wood you know I think
0:50:05.829,0:50:09.450
that services like Aztecas voucher
0:50:07.749,0:50:12.339
service just make more sense because
0:50:09.450,0:50:14.650
it's much easier so you know it's all
0:50:12.339,0:50:17.049
you need is a little terminal to print a
0:50:14.650,0:50:19.719
receipt and you need to just and then
0:50:17.049,0:50:21.130
you know you take cash from that person
0:50:19.719,0:50:23.799
and then you print them a voucher and
0:50:21.130,0:50:26.950
then they they just redeem that voucher
0:50:23.799,0:50:28.719
so part of its a software technological
0:50:26.950,0:50:32.160
problem but the other part of it is a
0:50:28.719,0:50:34.719
regulatory and a sort of like social
0:50:32.160,0:50:36.549
re-education problem like people have
0:50:34.719,0:50:39.309
become too accustomed to just giving
0:50:36.549,0:50:40.989
away data I mean it's it's so common now
0:50:39.309,0:50:43.119
you go somewhere and you know you're
0:50:40.989,0:50:45.039
like you want to like let's say you want
0:50:43.119,0:50:46.660
to just go like go to the gym and like
0:50:45.039,0:50:48.219
use the gym and they're like well we
0:50:46.660,0:50:50.259
need your address use the gym you're
0:50:48.219,0:50:51.700
like why do you need my address for me
0:50:50.259,0:50:53.109
to use your gym I just want to pay you
0:50:51.700,0:50:55.509
to use the gym why don't I need to give
0:50:53.109,0:50:57.579
you an address everyone has become so
0:50:55.509,0:51:00.009
accustomed to taking personal data from
0:50:57.579,0:51:01.569
people and people are become so
0:51:00.009,0:51:03.759
accustomed to giving personal data to
0:51:01.569,0:51:04.539
people they don't ask questions like why
0:51:03.759,0:51:06.219
does this person
0:51:04.539,0:51:07.749
need my personal data they don't need
0:51:06.219,0:51:11.160
your personal data stop giving your
0:51:07.749,0:51:14.380
personal data away it's a it's a problem
0:51:11.160,0:51:17.709
because if your parade that's hacked
0:51:14.380,0:51:20.380
then they now have access to all your
0:51:17.709,0:51:21.969
information and you just can generally
0:51:20.380,0:51:23.559
giving your information to people that
0:51:21.969,0:51:24.489
you don't know you don't know who they
0:51:23.559,0:51:27.519
are you don't know who works at that
0:51:24.489,0:51:29.559
company anyway it's just reiterating
0:51:27.519,0:51:30.369
that point that they're the problems
0:51:29.559,0:51:32.469
multifaceted
0:51:30.369,0:51:36.699
there's there's many as many problems
0:51:32.469,0:51:40.359
essentially I think Bitcoin without any
0:51:36.699,0:51:43.269
kind of privacy measures is very
0:51:40.359,0:51:45.789
Orwellian in itself and if we get to
0:51:43.269,0:51:48.609
this point where you need to get on a
0:51:45.789,0:51:51.579
regulated exchange and buy your amount
0:51:48.609,0:51:53.289
of bitcoins with your ID and your credit
0:51:51.579,0:51:57.309
card and you have to confirm everything
0:51:53.289,0:51:59.349
and hold on to their wallet and they
0:51:57.309,0:52:02.109
know it at all times what you're doing
0:51:59.349,0:52:04.329
with your funds and I know this nowadays
0:52:02.109,0:52:06.849
that if you want to close your coin base
0:52:04.329,0:52:09.130
account you have to make sure that every
0:52:06.849,0:52:12.009
small amount of every cryptocurrency
0:52:09.130,0:52:14.890
that you're holding is traded to another
0:52:12.009,0:52:18.189
account so you are not able to escape
0:52:14.890,0:52:21.249
this system and if we don't develop any
0:52:18.189,0:52:24.159
kind of more advanced privacy measures
0:52:21.249,0:52:26.679
then it's going to be much more
0:52:24.159,0:52:30.609
Orwellian than the cashless society
0:52:26.679,0:52:34.509
where everybody sends money by credit
0:52:30.609,0:52:35.979
card and everything can be traced yeah
0:52:34.509,0:52:39.039
absolutely and this is a problem on
0:52:35.979,0:52:41.019
multi levels because not only not only
0:52:39.039,0:52:43.839
as a blockchain analysis but you also
0:52:41.019,0:52:46.630
have the the peer-to-peer protocol layer
0:52:43.839,0:52:49.239
of Bitcoin and you have the peer-to-peer
0:52:46.630,0:52:51.249
where you you using your internet you
0:52:49.239,0:52:53.799
know you have to be savvy person you
0:52:51.249,0:52:55.329
have to know how to use EPN you have to
0:52:53.799,0:52:58.779
know how to use tor you have to know how
0:52:55.329,0:53:01.199
to you have to be very careful with what
0:52:58.779,0:53:04.029
you access on what internet connection
0:53:01.199,0:53:05.890
and and when it comes to blockchain
0:53:04.029,0:53:07.569
analysis we do have some really great
0:53:05.890,0:53:10.509
tools that are out now like wasabi
0:53:07.569,0:53:12.969
wallets you have samurai wallet that is
0:53:10.509,0:53:14.349
now coming out with you know they're
0:53:12.969,0:53:17.529
coming out with what's being referred to
0:53:14.349,0:53:18.309
as pay join or PTP which is essentially
0:53:17.529,0:53:21.489
a
0:53:18.309,0:53:23.469
form of coin join that allows you know
0:53:21.489,0:53:26.289
two parties to get together and
0:53:23.469,0:53:29.049
essentially mix their owns together in a
0:53:26.289,0:53:31.449
way that nobody looking at that
0:53:29.049,0:53:34.449
transaction knows that a coin joint took
0:53:31.449,0:53:37.839
place and they also don't know what who
0:53:34.449,0:53:40.180
actually got those outputs so we now
0:53:37.839,0:53:42.039
have technology with Bitcoin that it is
0:53:40.180,0:53:45.729
very possible to have privacy if you
0:53:42.039,0:53:47.499
know what you're doing and for NDA this
0:53:45.729,0:53:48.880
will also be enhanced by something like
0:53:47.499,0:53:51.670
the lighting Network the lighting
0:53:48.880,0:53:55.719
network uses an encrypted protocol
0:53:51.670,0:53:57.789
called the Sphinx protocol and that that
0:53:55.719,0:54:00.969
protocol allows you to route payments
0:53:57.789,0:54:04.839
over an encrypted network in which Jim
0:54:00.969,0:54:08.410
where the the hop the initial hop and
0:54:04.839,0:54:11.709
the final hop do not know the the entire
0:54:08.410,0:54:13.689
route of that payment and also it's not
0:54:11.709,0:54:16.089
broadcast to any blockchain so nobody
0:54:13.689,0:54:18.189
will know so you know when people say
0:54:16.089,0:54:20.019
let's use the blockchain for payments
0:54:18.189,0:54:22.449
you know well number one of us in scale
0:54:20.019,0:54:24.099
number two it's really stupid it's it's
0:54:22.449,0:54:26.859
you're like putting all your information
0:54:24.099,0:54:30.789
out on the public why would you do that
0:54:26.859,0:54:32.650
it's much better to use yeah if you if
0:54:30.789,0:54:34.839
you if you really want privacy in this
0:54:32.650,0:54:36.670
you need to also learn how to handle
0:54:34.839,0:54:39.670
your each key exo's you need to know
0:54:36.670,0:54:42.369
that you need to manage each individual
0:54:39.670,0:54:44.829
transaction output and be careful with
0:54:42.369,0:54:46.479
mixing your outputs together again this
0:54:44.829,0:54:48.670
is something that that samurai wallet
0:54:46.479,0:54:51.099
and electron wallah that other wallets
0:54:48.670,0:54:54.189
have made it very easy for you to manage
0:54:51.099,0:54:56.650
your ETX owes most Bitcoin wallets don't
0:54:54.189,0:54:59.890
have this feature and people regularly
0:54:56.650,0:55:01.420
combine transaction outputs which are
0:54:59.890,0:55:05.079
basically giving away their identity to
0:55:01.420,0:55:08.380
people that know who then know about
0:55:05.079,0:55:11.380
those initial outputs or input so you
0:55:08.380,0:55:13.719
know blockchain analysis it is being
0:55:11.380,0:55:18.999
broken thanks to people like samurai
0:55:13.719,0:55:20.769
wallet wasabi wallet join market these
0:55:18.999,0:55:23.469
technologies are finally getting to the
0:55:20.769,0:55:25.839
point where they are able to help users
0:55:23.469,0:55:27.910
have more privacy it really is a matter
0:55:25.839,0:55:29.560
of time and education and that's also
0:55:27.910,0:55:31.960
another reason why there's no
0:55:29.560,0:55:33.580
two on board everybody because though we
0:55:31.960,0:55:37.240
need more time to build these solutions
0:55:33.580,0:55:39.160
I think it's insane that there's so much
0:55:37.240,0:55:42.400
money in this space and there are so
0:55:39.160,0:55:44.380
many people who have an interest not for
0:55:42.400,0:55:48.820
a Bitcoin not to turn into something
0:55:44.380,0:55:51.910
that can be tracked in terms of every
0:55:48.820,0:55:54.640
small transaction that you can associate
0:55:51.910,0:55:57.370
addresses with people and you can track
0:55:54.640,0:55:59.680
everything but there is such a little
0:55:57.370,0:56:02.980
amount of investments being made for
0:55:59.680,0:56:05.950
development and research for radar
0:56:02.980,0:56:07.720
fungibility and privacy and also it
0:56:05.950,0:56:10.740
blows my mind when I think about it
0:56:07.720,0:56:14.550
that's the toshi meant in terms of
0:56:10.740,0:56:16.990
ensuring privacy for us to create a new
0:56:14.550,0:56:19.630
Bitcoin address for every transaction
0:56:16.990,0:56:24.130
that we make so when we request the new
0:56:19.630,0:56:26.500
payment we generate a new address to
0:56:24.130,0:56:28.330
have the money sent to it I guess I
0:56:26.500,0:56:30.760
might be wrong I haven't read everything
0:56:28.330,0:56:33.370
that Satoshi ever wrote but as far as I
0:56:30.760,0:56:36.390
can recall this was the security model
0:56:33.370,0:56:40.300
that he suggested and if we blindly
0:56:36.390,0:56:43.540
follow satoshis words then we might just
0:56:40.300,0:56:47.110
end up giving up our sovereignty and
0:56:43.540,0:56:48.250
privacy yeah I mean it's again it's a
0:56:47.110,0:56:49.930
system where you need to know what
0:56:48.250,0:56:52.960
you're doing if you're going to that's
0:56:49.930,0:56:54.610
fine to generate it's it's better it's a
0:56:52.960,0:56:56.440
lot better than what ripple and the
0:56:54.610,0:56:57.970
theorem are doing where you have an
0:56:56.440,0:57:02.380
account based system where it's very
0:56:57.970,0:57:06.730
easy to reuse and you're here accounts
0:57:02.380,0:57:10.450
and and but however with with with
0:57:06.730,0:57:12.160
Bitcoin having utx owes it is it does
0:57:10.450,0:57:15.580
have some advantages when it comes down
0:57:12.160,0:57:17.470
to privacy in the sense that you can
0:57:15.580,0:57:20.560
manage your individual transaction
0:57:17.470,0:57:23.020
outputs so if you want to if you wants
0:57:20.560,0:57:24.580
you if you have you know point one big
0:57:23.020,0:57:26.770
one in your wallet as long as you're
0:57:24.580,0:57:28.420
using a wallet that allows you to see
0:57:26.770,0:57:30.670
those transaction outputs you can select
0:57:28.420,0:57:32.050
which ones you want to spend and you can
0:57:30.670,0:57:34.630
spend those individual transaction
0:57:32.050,0:57:36.790
outputs and generate change addresses
0:57:34.630,0:57:38.230
yeah I mean most people don't even
0:57:36.790,0:57:39.430
people have been in the crypt of space
0:57:38.230,0:57:40.990
for a long time they don't have anything
0:57:39.430,0:57:43.030
they don't even know what coin control
0:57:40.990,0:57:45.790
is they don't actually know what aut EXO
0:57:43.030,0:57:47.350
is they don't understand they don't
0:57:45.790,0:57:51.040
understand what they're giving up by
0:57:47.350,0:57:53.980
using something like ripple where where
0:57:51.040,0:57:55.720
you have an account and you have to
0:57:53.980,0:57:58.780
essentially reuse that same account over
0:57:55.720,0:58:00.910
and over you know because you've already
0:57:58.780,0:58:02.470
put a deposit in and you know you can't
0:58:00.910,0:58:04.810
in order you'd have to create a new
0:58:02.470,0:58:06.550
account every time it's in a way so
0:58:04.810,0:58:09.160
tochi's mala was pretty novel at the
0:58:06.550,0:58:10.770
time for what it did it wasn't perfect
0:58:09.160,0:58:13.540
but I think it has one advantage is that
0:58:10.770,0:58:15.760
that least we have a you know with
0:58:13.540,0:58:17.320
Bitcoin being a public blockchain at
0:58:15.760,0:58:19.570
least we can verify that there's no
0:58:17.320,0:58:21.610
there's no coins out there that are
0:58:19.570,0:58:24.010
being created that we can't see that's
0:58:21.610,0:58:25.990
one problem with you know coins that are
0:58:24.010,0:58:28.030
yeah cryptocurrencies that are private
0:58:25.990,0:58:30.190
by default is that we don't actually
0:58:28.030,0:58:33.520
it's very hard to validate that
0:58:30.190,0:58:35.800
no no cryptocurrencies were were created
0:58:33.520,0:58:37.660
that we can't see due to a bug or flaw
0:58:35.800,0:58:40.630
which is a lot of the people have
0:58:37.660,0:58:43.680
criticized see cash because of this and
0:58:40.630,0:58:46.540
also ripple because the first 30,000
0:58:43.680,0:58:50.980
32,000 ledger entries from ripple are
0:58:46.540,0:58:52.720
missing and also just in general main
0:58:50.980,0:58:55.480
you know people is if these are
0:58:52.720,0:58:57.910
cryptographic this is cryptographic
0:58:55.480,0:59:00.850
technology that's it's very young it's
0:58:57.910,0:59:02.170
very new so you know putting a lot of
0:59:00.850,0:59:03.520
money into something like nimble Wimble
0:59:02.170,0:59:05.530
is probably pretty reckless right now
0:59:03.520,0:59:07.390
because you know it's possible that
0:59:05.530,0:59:08.410
could be broken there could be bugs in
0:59:07.390,0:59:10.090
it that we don't know there could be
0:59:08.410,0:59:11.710
inflation bugs you know there was an
0:59:10.090,0:59:14.470
inflation bug in Bitcoin that was
0:59:11.710,0:59:16.120
discovered and that first one was fixed
0:59:14.470,0:59:17.380
and then there was another potential bug
0:59:16.120,0:59:19.180
that could have caused inflation so
0:59:17.380,0:59:21.010
there are bugs even in public block
0:59:19.180,0:59:23.320
chains that could cause they could allow
0:59:21.010,0:59:25.390
people to inflate the supply and if you
0:59:23.320,0:59:27.880
have a private blockchain when I say
0:59:25.390,0:59:31.150
private I mean if launching it has
0:59:27.880,0:59:33.130
privacy by default there that problem
0:59:31.150,0:59:36.490
becomes potentially much more hard to
0:59:33.130,0:59:38.650
track so I like the model I actually
0:59:36.490,0:59:39.850
love the model of Bitcoin as long as you
0:59:38.650,0:59:43.000
know how to use it you know how to use
0:59:39.850,0:59:46.090
your UT exo's and you understand these
0:59:43.000,0:59:47.250
new technologies like coin join and then
0:59:46.090,0:59:49.260
if you understand why
0:59:47.250,0:59:51.120
network you know that you can make
0:59:49.260,0:59:52.640
payments between you and other people
0:59:51.120,0:59:55.320
that aren't broadcast to the blockchain
0:59:52.640,0:59:56.190
I think all these things are really
0:59:55.320,0:59:58.440
great step in the right direction
0:59:56.190,1:00:00.870
there's no silver bullet for this
0:59:58.440,1:00:04.290
problem there are many ways that people
1:00:00.870,1:00:05.430
can give up their privacy and just
1:00:04.290,1:00:07.920
because you're using something like
1:00:05.430,1:00:09.750
Manero doesn't mean that you have
1:00:07.920,1:00:12.120
privacy because it depends on how you
1:00:09.750,1:00:14.430
use that kirkuk currency are you using a
1:00:12.120,1:00:16.050
VPN or using tor where did you obtain
1:00:14.430,1:00:17.730
that manera from did you buy it from an
1:00:16.050,1:00:20.640
exchange did you withdraw to your wallet
1:00:17.730,1:00:21.990
did you there's a lot of questions did
1:00:20.640,1:00:22.890
you send a payment of somebody who now
1:00:21.990,1:00:25.440
has your address
1:00:22.890,1:00:29.430
I need those there's a lot of problems
1:00:25.440,1:00:31.500
right like the that privacy around
1:00:29.430,1:00:35.420
privacy that are not solved by any
1:00:31.500,1:00:37.650
single silver bullet just look at us
1:00:35.420,1:00:39.600
pretending to care so much about the
1:00:37.650,1:00:44.790
technology when it's all about the games
1:00:39.600,1:00:47.160
right Maxim or USD and just investing in
1:00:44.790,1:00:49.770
the first ship coin we find on Finance
1:00:47.160,1:00:53.250
and getting more BTC just and get more
1:00:49.770,1:00:54.600
USD during the next bull run yeah people
1:00:53.250,1:00:56.370
just don't know they don't they don't
1:00:54.600,1:00:58.140
they don't know right like so many
1:00:56.370,1:00:59.490
newcomers just they just have no idea
1:00:58.140,1:01:01.530
what they're buying and they don't
1:00:59.490,1:01:03.240
actually know the game that's being
1:01:01.530,1:01:05.480
played they don't know the problems that
1:01:03.240,1:01:08.010
are being solved and so unfortunately
1:01:05.480,1:01:11.040
people have made a large amount of money
1:01:08.010,1:01:13.170
fortunes many you know by telling people
1:01:11.040,1:01:15.450
to buy all coins and providing them an
1:01:13.170,1:01:17.010
avenue to buy them and not explaining
1:01:15.450,1:01:18.690
the risks and this is something that you
1:01:17.010,1:01:19.770
will see in the Bitcoin community you've
1:01:18.690,1:01:21.510
probably seen the Bitcoin community
1:01:19.770,1:01:24.030
argues with each other a lot like
1:01:21.510,1:01:25.800
there's bitcoiners are more ruthless
1:01:24.030,1:01:28.590
towards their fellow bitcoiners because
1:01:25.800,1:01:30.060
everybody in Bitcoin is incredibly they
1:01:28.590,1:01:31.710
believed strongly in these things and
1:01:30.060,1:01:33.930
they will fight to the death for these
1:01:31.710,1:01:36.060
things you don't find these types of
1:01:33.930,1:01:38.250
sentiments in all courts typically most
1:01:36.060,1:01:40.710
all pointers are going to be people who
1:01:38.250,1:01:42.120
really they're they don't actually
1:01:40.710,1:01:43.590
understand these problems and they
1:01:42.120,1:01:45.050
actually don't care about them a lot of
1:01:43.590,1:01:47.580
them are actually people who might
1:01:45.050,1:01:51.000
prefer they just trust a third party or
1:01:47.580,1:01:52.350
trust with centralized entities so you
1:01:51.000,1:01:54.120
know these are these are things that
1:01:52.350,1:01:56.820
take a long time to understand and be
1:01:54.120,1:01:59.740
educated about you know what I learned
1:01:56.820,1:02:01.660
in time while looking at the
1:01:59.740,1:02:03.610
different Twitter accounts and how
1:02:01.660,1:02:06.310
people react and how people from
1:02:03.610,1:02:08.590
different communities presents
1:02:06.310,1:02:11.619
narratives in order to justify their
1:02:08.590,1:02:15.630
deeds a lot of people don't even care
1:02:11.619,1:02:19.360
about most stuff and they don't really
1:02:15.630,1:02:21.910
care about a technology to the extent
1:02:19.360,1:02:25.360
that it helps the protocol but think
1:02:21.910,1:02:28.619
about short terms or midterm gains in
1:02:25.360,1:02:32.560
terms of maximizing their investments I
1:02:28.619,1:02:34.630
think that's it might be useful in terms
1:02:32.560,1:02:38.200
of bringing more money into the market
1:02:34.630,1:02:40.810
and I think that these people who get
1:02:38.200,1:02:44.110
the blame wouldn't invest in Bitcoin
1:02:40.810,1:02:46.420
anyway so we like to blame coinbase
1:02:44.110,1:02:49.810
sometimes for listening all the bad
1:02:46.420,1:02:51.970
coins and listening XRP and allowing
1:02:49.810,1:02:55.780
people to get the illusion that they are
1:02:51.970,1:02:58.390
investing in the next big asset that's
1:02:55.780,1:03:01.710
going to go to the moon and what's the
1:02:58.390,1:03:05.230
meme about XRP that it's going to read
1:03:01.710,1:03:08.500
379 dollars or something like that yeah
1:03:05.230,1:03:11.500
anyway yeah I think these people would
1:03:08.500,1:03:14.320
be attracted by these projects anyway
1:03:11.500,1:03:17.070
and would never get into Bitcoin and I
1:03:14.320,1:03:19.900
guess this argument gets back to
1:03:17.070,1:03:21.960
deteriorate late drug because sooner or
1:03:19.900,1:03:24.340
later they're going to be disappointed
1:03:21.960,1:03:26.859
and they're going to get rekt they're
1:03:24.340,1:03:28.630
going to lose their investments and if
1:03:26.859,1:03:31.180
they are still interested and they
1:03:28.630,1:03:32.950
acquire some kind of knowledge then they
1:03:31.180,1:03:34.980
might turn their heads to Bitcoin and
1:03:32.950,1:03:38.369
realize that this is the real deal or
1:03:34.980,1:03:41.920
else they're going to just make some
1:03:38.369,1:03:45.130
speculators richer and move on with
1:03:41.920,1:03:47.290
their lives into something else but one
1:03:45.130,1:03:51.550
argument that what your viewer uses all
1:03:47.290,1:03:54.880
the time is that BTC has lost dominance
1:03:51.550,1:03:56.980
on the market and it's all because the
1:03:54.880,1:03:59.710
blocks did not increase to allow
1:03:56.980,1:04:01.180
scalability and the devs were too
1:03:59.710,1:04:03.700
stubborn to allow for new
1:04:01.180,1:04:06.130
implementations to be made and he likes
1:04:03.700,1:04:08.470
to say that Vitalik wanted to build in
1:04:06.130,1:04:10.050
cerium on top of Bitcoin and they did
1:04:08.470,1:04:15.360
not love him because
1:04:10.050,1:04:19.080
was a bad idea and I don't think this is
1:04:15.360,1:04:22.650
I think he finds some causes but they're
1:04:19.080,1:04:25.590
not causal in this sense they are just
1:04:22.650,1:04:28.980
some phenomena that are there they might
1:04:25.590,1:04:31.380
have influenced what we called dominance
1:04:28.980,1:04:33.660
which in itself is a bad metric because
1:04:31.380,1:04:37.380
it's measured in terms of market cap
1:04:33.660,1:04:39.750
which is also bad metric but it doesn't
1:04:37.380,1:04:42.480
measure volume it's about how much money
1:04:39.750,1:04:46.050
is put into that particular coin at that
1:04:42.480,1:04:47.760
exact time yeah market capitalization is
1:04:46.050,1:04:49.500
a really stupid metric in the sense that
1:04:47.760,1:04:51.780
it can easy to game it
1:04:49.500,1:04:53.670
it has market liquidity is far more
1:04:51.780,1:04:56.190
important the buy support is far more
1:04:53.670,1:04:57.050
important but you know you look at
1:04:56.190,1:05:00.900
something like
1:04:57.050,1:05:02.610
etherium for example and I don't think
1:05:00.900,1:05:03.720
vitalic was ever gonna build it on top
1:05:02.610,1:05:06.180
of Bitcoin
1:05:03.720,1:05:08.850
yeah maybe but that didn't you know just
1:05:06.180,1:05:10.020
because there was a lot of people who
1:05:08.850,1:05:11.520
wanted to put a lot of things on Bitcoin
1:05:10.020,1:05:13.620
and I'm sorry that they didn't get to do
1:05:11.520,1:05:17.190
that but you know I don't believe a
1:05:13.620,1:05:18.510
theorem has any value i I don't I when
1:05:17.190,1:05:20.790
you keep looking at the narratives the
1:05:18.510,1:05:22.260
narrative aetherium constantly change in
1:05:20.790,1:05:24.180
the film when it was first launched it
1:05:22.260,1:05:26.100
was so that was being marketed as the
1:05:24.180,1:05:27.510
world computer and then the next thing
1:05:26.100,1:05:28.980
was that it was going to be these you
1:05:27.510,1:05:31.440
know the Dow that decentralized
1:05:28.980,1:05:33.270
autonomous organization and then you
1:05:31.440,1:05:34.710
know then went to DAPs and then DAPs
1:05:33.270,1:05:36.960
turned out to be a total flop because
1:05:34.710,1:05:38.670
they have terrible user experience and
1:05:36.960,1:05:41.850
they're fundamentally unscalable on
1:05:38.670,1:05:43.680
chain and then now the new one is defy
1:05:41.850,1:05:45.690
like you know decentralized finance
1:05:43.680,1:05:47.550
which is another just marketing buzzword
1:05:45.690,1:05:49.590
it's always a new buzzword with these
1:05:47.550,1:05:51.630
people every single time it's not real
1:05:49.590,1:05:53.970
in it it's not real innovation it's not
1:05:51.630,1:05:55.650
real application or use it's just in
1:05:53.970,1:05:56.280
it's just speculation and marketing
1:05:55.650,1:06:00.300
buzzwords
1:05:56.280,1:06:02.490
and you know so many people it's
1:06:00.300,1:06:04.050
actually incredibly irresponsible to be
1:06:02.490,1:06:05.400
selling this technology to anyone as a
1:06:04.050,1:06:06.750
solution for something when it's
1:06:05.400,1:06:08.940
fundamentally insecure in the first
1:06:06.750,1:06:10.190
place you can't build something you
1:06:08.940,1:06:13.170
shouldn't be building on top of
1:06:10.190,1:06:14.760
something like aetherium when name when
1:06:13.170,1:06:16.800
that protocol is gonna continue to hard
1:06:14.760,1:06:19.890
fork and it has tremendous like
1:06:16.800,1:06:21.990
governance problems governance was never
1:06:19.890,1:06:23.430
a problem in Bitcoin the problem was the
1:06:21.990,1:06:26.279
problem was essentially that the
1:06:23.430,1:06:27.960
people were trying to force something to
1:06:26.279,1:06:30.119
be used for something that it naturally
1:06:27.960,1:06:31.770
really doesn't doesn't scale it and
1:06:30.119,1:06:34.500
doesn't scale for a number of reasons
1:06:31.770,1:06:36.569
socially it's unscalable you will have
1:06:34.500,1:06:37.200
disagreements look even when we had big
1:06:36.569,1:06:39.299
blocks
1:06:37.200,1:06:41.190
now there's two corners with big blocks
1:06:39.299,1:06:42.180
why because they disagreed and the
1:06:41.190,1:06:44.549
teacher there's going to be more of
1:06:42.180,1:06:46.920
those Bitcoin Forks off of those there
1:06:44.549,1:06:48.990
eventually there will be be it Bitcoin
1:06:46.920,1:06:50.220
has fears Satoshi vision people who will
1:06:48.990,1:06:52.289
disagree with these other people and
1:06:50.220,1:06:54.510
they will fork their own and they will
1:06:52.289,1:06:55.950
say their coin is the real Bitcoin and
1:06:54.510,1:06:59.250
there will be now they're talking about
1:06:55.950,1:07:00.809
etherium 2.0 I'm sorry what like why
1:06:59.250,1:07:02.010
you're building a new blockchain and
1:07:00.809,1:07:03.420
you're just gonna like court everything
1:07:02.010,1:07:04.650
from the old one to the new one like
1:07:03.420,1:07:06.869
this is the stupidest thing I've ever
1:07:04.650,1:07:09.390
heard this this doesn't make any sense
1:07:06.869,1:07:11.160
like what you you don't find anyone in
1:07:09.390,1:07:13.230
the real business world that actually is
1:07:11.160,1:07:15.299
building real applications for cut for
1:07:13.230,1:07:18.210
consumer use cases out in the wild
1:07:15.299,1:07:20.609
actual businesses that have any use for
1:07:18.210,1:07:22.559
any of any of these things they don't
1:07:20.609,1:07:24.059
have any use for this stuff I know as a
1:07:22.559,1:07:27.150
matter of fact I work in industries that
1:07:24.059,1:07:28.470
have that have been pitched these
1:07:27.150,1:07:29.549
technologies and I can tell you the
1:07:28.470,1:07:31.200
matter of fact that people that are
1:07:29.549,1:07:33.779
marketing them have no idea about three
1:07:31.200,1:07:34.980
Arkadiy they have no idea that problems
1:07:33.779,1:07:38.069
are trying to solve they don't even
1:07:34.980,1:07:39.569
understand the technology so you just
1:07:38.069,1:07:44.240
have it's sort of like a perfect storm
1:07:39.569,1:07:47.880
of ignorance and marketing scammers and
1:07:44.240,1:07:49.200
really a lot of people who frankly they
1:07:47.880,1:07:50.760
don't have anything better to do they
1:07:49.200,1:07:52.349
don't and they're not out there building
1:07:50.760,1:07:54.450
solutions they're not out there doing
1:07:52.349,1:07:55.740
meaningful work they probably there's a
1:07:54.450,1:07:57.930
lot of people in the crypto space that
1:07:55.740,1:07:59.609
are unemployed and they don't you know
1:07:57.930,1:08:01.200
they're they're trying to make money and
1:07:59.609,1:08:03.720
one of the easiest ways to make money is
1:08:01.200,1:08:05.520
to just try to buy an altcoin and try to
1:08:03.720,1:08:09.240
you know speculate that maybe it goes up
1:08:05.520,1:08:12.420
in value so yeah I mean you know these
1:08:09.240,1:08:13.829
use cases that you know that like Roger
1:08:12.420,1:08:15.599
beer is constantly going on about I
1:08:13.829,1:08:18.330
think it's totally false that the market
1:08:15.599,1:08:20.009
dominance dropped because of the scaling
1:08:18.330,1:08:21.480
debate I think that's that's that's a
1:08:20.009,1:08:24.719
that's something that Roger beer will
1:08:21.480,1:08:27.839
use in retrospect because because it's
1:08:24.719,1:08:29.759
because it it sounds like it it sound it
1:08:27.839,1:08:31.109
sells well to newcomers like newbies
1:08:29.759,1:08:33.659
will look at that and they will think oh
1:08:31.109,1:08:34.370
that's why that's why big one has lost
1:08:33.659,1:08:36.590
dominance
1:08:34.370,1:08:38.900
no it didn't was loose dominants because
1:08:36.590,1:08:40.190
of that it's at least lost dominance
1:08:38.900,1:08:41.960
because there's an unlimited number of
1:08:40.190,1:08:43.340
all coins it doesn't it doesn't matter
1:08:41.960,1:08:45.590
dominance measured in a mark
1:08:43.340,1:08:47.380
capitalization is irrelevant when
1:08:45.590,1:08:50.540
there's an infinite number of all points
1:08:47.380,1:08:52.310
so you know the dominate the dominance
1:08:50.540,1:08:54.980
I'm not that interested in the dominance
1:08:52.310,1:08:56.720
to be honest with you I fundamentally
1:08:54.980,1:08:59.000
believe that the people who are looking
1:08:56.720,1:09:00.800
for a store of value and sound and sound
1:08:59.000,1:09:02.930
monetary policy and true
1:09:00.800,1:09:04.430
decentralization and long term low type
1:09:02.930,1:09:06.020
F from store value I believe those
1:09:04.430,1:09:07.820
people are going to move towards Bitcoin
1:09:06.020,1:09:09.380
I don't really care what the other
1:09:07.820,1:09:11.390
people do they are welcome to go
1:09:09.380,1:09:12.730
speculate and experiment but eventually
1:09:11.390,1:09:15.020
they won't come to the realization that
1:09:12.730,1:09:19.250
none of this is useful if you can't
1:09:15.020,1:09:20.840
store value I really agree with you but
1:09:19.250,1:09:23.450
at the same time I want to point out
1:09:20.840,1:09:26.960
that the money that went into et reom
1:09:23.450,1:09:28.220
would have never gone into Bitcoin yeah
1:09:26.960,1:09:30.770
I think you're right probably didn't
1:09:28.220,1:09:32.630
have different philosophies and they are
1:09:30.770,1:09:36.590
attract different types of people and
1:09:32.630,1:09:39.410
each cerium is attractive to the Silicon
1:09:36.590,1:09:41.480
Valley type and the Wall Street guys who
1:09:39.410,1:09:44.150
think that they can tokenize everything
1:09:41.480,1:09:47.600
and put it under blockchain with minimal
1:09:44.150,1:09:49.850
efforts and it also attracts scammers
1:09:47.600,1:09:53.390
and none of these can be done with
1:09:49.850,1:09:56.420
Bitcoin and I guess Bitcoin has a
1:09:53.390,1:09:59.750
stronger immune system there is no way
1:09:56.420,1:10:03.110
that five people can get inside the room
1:09:59.750,1:10:05.510
and decide to delay or network upgrade
1:10:03.110,1:10:07.760
in the case of Bitcoin that there isn't
1:10:05.510,1:10:11.090
even a hard core that's getting planned
1:10:07.760,1:10:13.610
unless we need to have some kind of
1:10:11.090,1:10:15.760
emergency to change the mining algorithm
1:10:13.610,1:10:19.550
which has been I guess the discussion
1:10:15.760,1:10:21.320
since the first few days of Bitcoin when
1:10:19.550,1:10:23.420
they said that the cryptography should
1:10:21.320,1:10:26.240
protect the network and the moment when
1:10:23.420,1:10:30.590
as a change of 56 gets broken they're
1:10:26.240,1:10:33.560
going to change it and also I think the
1:10:30.590,1:10:36.350
developers also have some kind of
1:10:33.560,1:10:39.050
quantum computing proof system for
1:10:36.350,1:10:42.380
wallets or whenever we need to move on
1:10:39.050,1:10:44.510
so that's the inevitable moment when we
1:10:42.380,1:10:45.250
are going to have a hard work which is
1:10:44.510,1:10:48.910
necessary
1:10:45.250,1:10:52.240
is justified it's not like we have had a
1:10:48.910,1:10:54.430
small minority who act as the elites and
1:10:52.240,1:10:57.790
they decide by themselves when the right
1:10:54.430,1:11:02.470
moment is to just some kind of upgrade
1:10:57.790,1:11:06.760
and I know that Vitalik is a smart guy
1:11:02.470,1:11:09.220
and he has a lot of understanding of the
1:11:06.760,1:11:11.230
phenomenon and his brilliant at his age
1:11:09.220,1:11:15.130
that she was able to comprehend all that
1:11:11.230,1:11:17.560
information and build something that we
1:11:15.130,1:11:21.370
may agree that is not useful but it's
1:11:17.560,1:11:23.140
still impressive as an implementation I
1:11:21.370,1:11:25.030
think a lot of people have built a lot
1:11:23.140,1:11:27.880
of interesting systems in the blockchain
1:11:25.030,1:11:30.370
space and they just didn't get the they
1:11:27.880,1:11:33.460
didn't get the level of investment that
1:11:30.370,1:11:35.110
buy talent got so and I think it was
1:11:33.460,1:11:36.820
because account you know there were
1:11:35.110,1:11:40.330
there were many people involved in
1:11:36.820,1:11:42.490
etherium and yeah they were in Silicon
1:11:40.330,1:11:43.780
Valley and they had access to a large
1:11:42.490,1:11:45.400
pool of capital but there's definitely
1:11:43.780,1:11:47.440
there's definitely been a lot of
1:11:45.400,1:11:49.830
projects in the blockchain space that I
1:11:47.440,1:11:51.910
think or whatever that are interesting
1:11:49.830,1:11:53.350
conceptually they just didn't get that
1:11:51.910,1:11:55.060
investment because it was just a matter
1:11:53.350,1:11:56.890
of they didn't know those the right
1:11:55.060,1:11:59.050
people and they weren't in the right
1:11:56.890,1:12:00.850
circles but it's theirs to me there's
1:11:59.050,1:12:03.400
nothing special about vitalic that
1:12:00.850,1:12:06.190
someone else wouldn't have done or
1:12:03.400,1:12:08.440
attempted at Orion complete you know
1:12:06.190,1:12:11.530
blockchain or whatever a virtual machine
1:12:08.440,1:12:12.850
is it's not like that he was the only
1:12:11.530,1:12:15.430
person that could have done that it's
1:12:12.850,1:12:16.990
just that early developers a Bitcoin
1:12:15.430,1:12:18.430
said that was a stupid form this idea
1:12:16.990,1:12:20.530
and so they they didn't pursue it so
1:12:18.430,1:12:21.790
it's finally he pursued it I think
1:12:20.530,1:12:23.740
somebody else would have pursued it as
1:12:21.790,1:12:27.160
well and people aren't pursuing those
1:12:23.740,1:12:29.890
things however you know yeah I mean he's
1:12:27.160,1:12:32.470
a I suppose he's a smart person per se I
1:12:29.890,1:12:34.510
just I just think there's an incredible
1:12:32.470,1:12:35.980
disconnect between people who run
1:12:34.510,1:12:39.850
businesses and understand the business
1:12:35.980,1:12:43.690
world versus you know theoretical ideas
1:12:39.850,1:12:45.190
and applications so no it's probably the
1:12:43.690,1:12:46.780
same problem that a lot like in the
1:12:45.190,1:12:48.880
dot-com boom there was a lot of people
1:12:46.780,1:12:50.050
that were pitching in common internet
1:12:48.880,1:12:54.160
for something that it actually wasn't
1:12:50.050,1:12:56.410
that realistic for at that time but you
1:12:54.160,1:12:57.940
know I I guess I guess I'm fine with the
1:12:56.410,1:12:59.710
experimentation what I have
1:12:57.940,1:13:02.080
problem with is that you have people
1:12:59.710,1:13:04.480
like by telling who they use their
1:13:02.080,1:13:07.150
position to attack Bitcoin and they I
1:13:04.480,1:13:09.520
mean in the last bit bit core Bitcoin
1:13:07.150,1:13:12.070
cash for you know like italic has
1:13:09.520,1:13:15.610
repeatedly taken Roger beers side many
1:13:12.070,1:13:17.560
times he seems to be socially like inept
1:13:15.610,1:13:19.300
or completely ignoring the fact that
1:13:17.560,1:13:21.850
Roger beer has said horrible things
1:13:19.300,1:13:23.590
about Bitcoin developers Roger beer
1:13:21.850,1:13:25.480
accuses people of doing all sorts of
1:13:23.590,1:13:27.699
things that are not true
1:13:25.480,1:13:29.949
Roger grew wise a lot and you don't see
1:13:27.699,1:13:31.600
you don't see my talent calling Roger
1:13:29.949,1:13:33.820
beer out you know you don't see that
1:13:31.600,1:13:36.010
happening so I really questioned the
1:13:33.820,1:13:37.989
ethics and morals of a lot of people in
1:13:36.010,1:13:39.910
that community because I think they use
1:13:37.989,1:13:42.460
Bitcoin when it can when it's convenient
1:13:39.910,1:13:43.960
for them they they pretend to like
1:13:42.460,1:13:46.120
Bitcoin when it's convenient for them
1:13:43.960,1:13:48.840
but then they turn around and they
1:13:46.120,1:13:51.760
attack it when it's convenient for them
1:13:48.840,1:13:54.250
you know I guess Metallica is under a
1:13:51.760,1:13:57.790
lot of scrutiny and despite his
1:13:54.250,1:13:59.770
intelligence he he got into this kind of
1:13:57.790,1:14:02.890
situation where he has a lot of
1:13:59.770,1:14:05.500
responsibility and he has to account to
1:14:02.890,1:14:08.530
VCS who put a lot of money to his
1:14:05.500,1:14:12.280
project so he has to fulfill these
1:14:08.530,1:14:14.650
expectations and deliver a working
1:14:12.280,1:14:17.140
product and then this regard I think a
1:14:14.650,1:14:20.949
Tyrian works more as a business whereas
1:14:17.140,1:14:23.830
bitcoin is protocol that simply
1:14:20.949,1:14:26.590
functions and the fact that it doesn't
1:14:23.830,1:14:28.750
receive any kind of upgrades in a given
1:14:26.590,1:14:31.239
amount of time is not a part but a
1:14:28.750,1:14:34.750
feature and a demonstration of the
1:14:31.239,1:14:37.300
capability and the sustainability of
1:14:34.750,1:14:38.830
this protocol whereas in the case of
1:14:37.300,1:14:42.430
aetherium it's a whole different animal
1:14:38.830,1:14:45.550
they expect to scale they expect to have
1:14:42.430,1:14:48.640
all these kind of pretty useless but
1:14:45.550,1:14:53.710
crazy decentralized applications to be
1:14:48.640,1:14:55.239
running supposedly they're not actually
1:14:53.710,1:14:57.250
decentralized that's part of the problem
1:14:55.239,1:14:58.719
the applications might appear to be
1:14:57.250,1:14:59.920
decentralized but when you actually go
1:14:58.719,1:15:01.449
down and break it down these
1:14:59.920,1:15:04.300
applications are likely using a
1:15:01.449,1:15:06.580
third-party service to actually run the
1:15:04.300,1:15:08.140
application so you know what happens is
1:15:06.580,1:15:10.249
you end up you end up getting so far
1:15:08.140,1:15:11.929
away from from running your own Oh
1:15:10.249,1:15:13.729
we get so far away from the action to
1:15:11.929,1:15:16.780
centralise thing that you really just
1:15:13.729,1:15:19.429
end up with a sort of like semi
1:15:16.780,1:15:20.989
decentralized copy of existing
1:15:19.429,1:15:23.889
applications that doesn't actually work
1:15:20.989,1:15:27.019
very well for what it's trying to do so
1:15:23.889,1:15:28.460
and I think that this is just a part of
1:15:27.019,1:15:30.349
the disconnect you know my talent
1:15:28.460,1:15:32.389
doesn't he doesn't believe in proof of
1:15:30.349,1:15:35.059
work he believes and he wants to switch
1:15:32.389,1:15:36.499
to perfect stake this is there's been a
1:15:35.059,1:15:39.530
there's a number of problems with that
1:15:36.499,1:15:41.869
as we know there's there the problems
1:15:39.530,1:15:44.510
are insurmountable actually there's no
1:15:41.869,1:15:45.679
real alternative to proof of work out
1:15:44.510,1:15:48.260
there
1:15:45.679,1:15:50.449
and and so you know these ideas
1:15:48.260,1:15:53.179
unfortunately they appeal to newcomers
1:15:50.449,1:15:56.119
and they appeal to a lot of newbies
1:15:53.179,1:15:58.010
because they they don't they don't
1:15:56.119,1:15:59.900
understand the security model they don't
1:15:58.010,1:16:02.510
understand the risks they can't think
1:15:59.900,1:16:04.429
long term and a lot of them are very
1:16:02.510,1:16:06.679
susceptible to being sold marketing
1:16:04.429,1:16:09.860
schemes right like these are these are
1:16:06.679,1:16:11.599
marketing schemes that they are sold and
1:16:09.860,1:16:17.719
they don't they don't really take the
1:16:11.599,1:16:20.659
time to analyze the long-term security
1:16:17.719,1:16:23.539
and models of these these networks and
1:16:20.659,1:16:25.280
what is really at stake is is the big
1:16:23.539,1:16:27.199
question like what is what is really
1:16:25.280,1:16:30.519
what do we really you know what's the
1:16:27.199,1:16:33.050
real problems that this is solving and
1:16:30.519,1:16:35.479
you know if you can't if you can't
1:16:33.050,1:16:37.039
ultimately use that system and a fully
1:16:35.479,1:16:39.380
decentralized way and then there's
1:16:37.039,1:16:42.380
really no point doing in the first place
1:16:39.380,1:16:45.019
I think right now Daddy mentioned these
1:16:42.380,1:16:48.860
facts I just came across this thought
1:16:45.019,1:16:52.699
that I think it cerium is essentially a
1:16:48.860,1:16:55.159
very post modernist project where the
1:16:52.699,1:16:58.369
technical truth is less important than
1:16:55.159,1:17:00.619
the narrative and the story that they
1:16:58.369,1:17:03.469
want to build and the beliefs that they
1:17:00.619,1:17:05.300
have as a community they want to believe
1:17:03.469,1:17:07.670
that proof of state works they want to
1:17:05.300,1:17:11.749
believe that their sharding
1:17:07.670,1:17:14.440
implementation is functional they did
1:17:11.749,1:17:17.599
receive a terrible peer review from
1:17:14.440,1:17:21.409
academics and technical specialists who
1:17:17.599,1:17:23.530
reviewed their plans but they still try
1:17:21.409,1:17:28.900
to believe and the
1:17:23.530,1:17:31.990
they present themselves as these masonic
1:17:28.900,1:17:34.060
figures who want to save the protocol
1:17:31.990,1:17:36.280
and bring something better and always
1:17:34.060,1:17:38.700
improve and as we speak right now I
1:17:36.280,1:17:42.670
think they might be having that
1:17:38.700,1:17:45.070
Constantinople hard work so yeah as
1:17:42.670,1:17:47.560
opposed to Bitcoin which is all about
1:17:45.070,1:17:51.010
facts and something that can be verified
1:17:47.560,1:17:53.890
in an objective way it's helium is about
1:17:51.010,1:17:56.350
constructing the narrative that's why we
1:17:53.890,1:17:59.260
ended up having projects like Tron it's
1:17:56.350,1:18:03.510
going to be the serial killer and
1:17:59.260,1:18:06.520
they're all about marketing also EOS and
1:18:03.510,1:18:10.360
everything that came after it they are
1:18:06.520,1:18:12.460
all about the story behind them but less
1:18:10.360,1:18:18.460
about the technology and that's why they
1:18:12.460,1:18:20.200
get pumped by the marketing teams yeah
1:18:18.460,1:18:22.240
yeah absolutely and these people are
1:18:20.200,1:18:23.800
holding a lot of this cryptocurrency and
1:18:22.240,1:18:29.440
so they are heavily invested in making
1:18:23.800,1:18:32.140
this narrative work yeah and in the case
1:18:29.440,1:18:34.900
of Bitcoin it doesn't care about how we
1:18:32.140,1:18:36.300
understand it how we perceive it what do
1:18:34.900,1:18:40.270
we want it to be
1:18:36.300,1:18:44.320
it just works and it's there and we can
1:18:40.270,1:18:47.050
use it and whenever we wake up from this
1:18:44.320,1:18:48.970
idealistic stegler maybe maybe that
1:18:47.050,1:18:52.210
proof of stake is a good idea for the
1:18:48.970,1:18:55.570
environment but if you want to have this
1:18:52.210,1:18:59.740
great goal of having uncensor about
1:18:55.570,1:19:02.980
money that is independent and not
1:18:59.740,1:19:05.800
reliant on any government of the world
1:19:02.980,1:19:08.410
then it's useful to have Bitcoin on a
1:19:05.800,1:19:12.370
proof of work system and maybe that it's
1:19:08.410,1:19:15.430
better than et reom picked up on hashing
1:19:12.370,1:19:18.940
and I'm not sure if these machines that
1:19:15.430,1:19:21.250
currently run in Syria mining will be
1:19:18.940,1:19:25.660
able to switch to Bitcoin in a way that
1:19:21.250,1:19:27.010
is profitable but when they say that
1:19:25.660,1:19:29.950
they're moving to proof of stake
1:19:27.010,1:19:32.400
sometimes I think ok that's good for a
1:19:29.950,1:19:32.400
Bitcoin
1:19:32.639,1:19:36.330
yeah I think it's I think it's great for
1:19:34.380,1:19:38.429
Bitcoin I think they're I think that
1:19:36.330,1:19:39.900
they're going to if they ever pull it
1:19:38.429,1:19:43.380
off they'll realize that they made a
1:19:39.900,1:19:45.300
huge mistake but you know that's neither
1:19:43.380,1:19:47.670
here nor there I actually just I simply
1:19:45.300,1:19:49.650
just don't care about that project in
1:19:47.670,1:19:51.960
the sense that it's irrelevant I have no
1:19:49.650,1:19:54.179
use case for it I've never in six years
1:19:51.960,1:19:56.119
I've never found a use for it so I don't
1:19:54.179,1:19:59.869
use it
1:19:56.119,1:20:03.600
yeah I got interested in it early on I
1:19:59.869,1:20:07.290
read about it it seems so nice and so
1:20:03.600,1:20:09.330
interesting and had all these different
1:20:07.290,1:20:11.310
applications that it's very hard to
1:20:09.330,1:20:13.199
define up to this point I'm still not
1:20:11.310,1:20:15.719
sure what it's supposed to do other than
1:20:13.199,1:20:17.790
smart contracts which I can understand
1:20:15.719,1:20:21.630
but in terms of decentralized
1:20:17.790,1:20:24.270
applications okay what is their value
1:20:21.630,1:20:26.369
proposition and use case how are they
1:20:24.270,1:20:28.920
supposed to skill to actually compete
1:20:26.369,1:20:33.719
with the centralized solutions that we
1:20:28.920,1:20:38.790
already have and why does interim skill
1:20:33.719,1:20:41.760
in a way that makes it redundant to call
1:20:38.790,1:20:44.130
itself decentralize I mean we might as
1:20:41.760,1:20:47.070
well switch to EOS which actually
1:20:44.130,1:20:50.100
supports more what do you call them
1:20:47.070,1:20:54.060
programming languages and it's easy for
1:20:50.100,1:20:56.639
developers to move their projects to the
1:20:54.060,1:20:58.230
protocol and make them so what they call
1:20:56.639,1:21:01.530
decentralized but they have just a few
1:20:58.230,1:21:03.869
blocked reducers who are like the
1:21:01.530,1:21:09.360
curators of the network and they keep on
1:21:03.869,1:21:11.270
validating the transactions yeah yeah I
1:21:09.360,1:21:15.179
mean I think that a very invasive
1:21:11.270,1:21:17.429
competitors because if they're trying to
1:21:15.179,1:21:19.080
compete on that front then they have to
1:21:17.429,1:21:20.699
compete with all those altcoins and
1:21:19.080,1:21:24.060
there's gonna be more outgoing in the
1:21:20.699,1:21:26.250
future so I don't see it as a long term
1:21:24.060,1:21:29.010
store value or viable project for
1:21:26.250,1:21:31.520
personally I think it's it's maybe let a
1:21:29.010,1:21:35.130
lot of people to me down the wrong path
1:21:31.520,1:21:37.260
I don't care if they use it I highly
1:21:35.130,1:21:39.840
recommend companies do not use their
1:21:37.260,1:21:43.349
technology at all it's a huge waste of
1:21:39.840,1:21:44.550
time and I don't know any I don't really
1:21:43.349,1:21:46.200
know of any companies out there that are
1:21:44.550,1:21:48.120
they're using this
1:21:46.200,1:21:50.490
in a way that is actually generating any
1:21:48.120,1:21:52.950
real use like where actual customers are
1:21:50.490,1:21:54.720
actually using it because frankly it
1:21:52.950,1:21:57.500
doesn't really solve the problems that
1:21:54.720,1:22:00.990
people keep claiming it solves so I
1:21:57.500,1:22:02.430
think we have been talking for over an
1:22:00.990,1:22:05.220
hour and I'm not sure how many people
1:22:02.430,1:22:07.740
will be listening up to this point but I
1:22:05.220,1:22:10.110
want to ask you a question which
1:22:07.740,1:22:12.630
concerns your vision on Bitcoin and
1:22:10.110,1:22:14.790
where do you think that we will be 10
1:22:12.630,1:22:18.780
years from now in terms of technology
1:22:14.790,1:22:24.390
and what makes you most excited in terms
1:22:18.780,1:22:25.620
of development for Bitcoin that's yeah
1:22:24.390,1:22:27.600
that's a great question I know you asked
1:22:25.620,1:22:28.560
to just John curb all of that question
1:22:27.600,1:22:36.330
you might have asked all your guests
1:22:28.560,1:22:39.870
that question B I think that store value
1:22:36.330,1:22:41.580
is incredibly important you know the in
1:22:39.870,1:22:44.580
ten years from now I really have no idea
1:22:41.580,1:22:46.350
where bitcoins going to be because where
1:22:44.580,1:22:48.720
it has come in just two years is
1:22:46.350,1:22:51.180
phenomenal and what we're seeing right
1:22:48.720,1:22:54.930
now with new technologies that are
1:22:51.180,1:22:58.020
coming out to enable really didn't able
1:22:54.930,1:22:59.220
like a lighting network I think that the
1:22:58.020,1:23:02.040
Lightning Network offers a whole new
1:22:59.220,1:23:04.620
business model I'm really bullish on
1:23:02.040,1:23:06.390
that in the short term in terms of
1:23:04.620,1:23:08.340
enabling a whole new set of applications
1:23:06.390,1:23:10.620
which we're already seeing developers
1:23:08.340,1:23:13.440
using the light network in ways to do to
1:23:10.620,1:23:15.740
do micro payment applications and I
1:23:13.440,1:23:18.390
think we don't actually fully understand
1:23:15.740,1:23:20.610
what how revolutionary it's gonna be
1:23:18.390,1:23:21.750
until we're a little bit later stages of
1:23:20.610,1:23:24.870
the protocol and so there's more
1:23:21.750,1:23:28.980
features that people need so but ten
1:23:24.870,1:23:31.320
years from now I see I definitely see
1:23:28.980,1:23:34.980
Bitcoin being worth a a lot more money
1:23:31.320,1:23:38.850
I see Bitcoin mining becoming becoming
1:23:34.980,1:23:42.000
incredibly difficult because over time
1:23:38.850,1:23:44.340
the with mining the the efficiencies can
1:23:42.000,1:23:46.290
that are squeezed out of new hardware
1:23:44.340,1:23:50.820
gets slimmer and slimmer so it gets
1:23:46.290,1:23:53.450
harder to produce Asics that they can
1:23:50.820,1:23:57.450
compete with you know they can that have
1:23:53.450,1:23:59.130
large gains in hash rate you know
1:23:57.450,1:23:59.710
essentially we are pushing Moore's law
1:23:59.130,1:24:02.290
to the win
1:23:59.710,1:24:03.970
like mining power mining Asics are
1:24:02.290,1:24:05.950
pushing the limits of computer
1:24:03.970,1:24:09.690
technology so I think it'll be very
1:24:05.950,1:24:12.340
interesting to see as the margins on
1:24:09.690,1:24:15.340
incremental gains can continues to
1:24:12.340,1:24:17.530
diminish I think we will see Bitcoin
1:24:15.340,1:24:20.380
mining will become much more a function
1:24:17.530,1:24:25.030
of power companies and power people who
1:24:20.380,1:24:25.510
have access to very cheap and stranded
1:24:25.030,1:24:29.020
power
1:24:25.510,1:24:32.410
so like hydroelectric power stranded gas
1:24:29.020,1:24:34.750
power you know solar energy so I'm
1:24:32.410,1:24:38.890
really interested to see in ten years
1:24:34.750,1:24:41.470
like sort of how how Bitcoin mining will
1:24:38.890,1:24:44.440
get integrated into power production
1:24:41.470,1:24:46.720
around around the world I think that the
1:24:44.440,1:24:49.330
that you know so yeah so I guess in ten
1:24:46.720,1:24:50.770
years from now I see I do see big going
1:24:49.330,1:24:53.590
mining becoming an integral part of
1:24:50.770,1:24:57.220
power production economics and I also
1:24:53.590,1:24:59.290
see I just see a whole I see the world
1:24:57.220,1:25:01.000
using Bitcoin I see government's using
1:24:59.290,1:25:03.550
Bitcoin ten years from now I see central
1:25:01.000,1:25:05.380
government's hoarding Bitcoin I see
1:25:03.550,1:25:08.200
companies using Bitcoin as a hedge and
1:25:05.380,1:25:09.880
store value I think that we don't I just
1:25:08.200,1:25:11.790
think it's really hard to know but those
1:25:09.880,1:25:14.560
are the things that I see in the future
1:25:11.790,1:25:17.770
well that's a very optimistic of you and
1:25:14.560,1:25:20.110
I guess it'll be also useful right now
1:25:17.770,1:25:22.950
to mention how you can be contacted on
1:25:20.110,1:25:25.660
Twitter and how people can read your
1:25:22.950,1:25:28.870
articles because you clearly have a lot
1:25:25.660,1:25:31.690
of insights and you're infused should be
1:25:28.870,1:25:35.980
read and spread across the enthusiasts
1:25:31.690,1:25:39.280
of Bitcoin yeah thank you
1:25:35.980,1:25:42.820
yeah Mike Twitter is a brick string tech
1:25:39.280,1:25:45.490
right now you know I came across that
1:25:42.820,1:25:49.510
that name it was kind of a meme that was
1:25:45.490,1:25:52.030
passed around because a game show was it
1:25:49.510,1:25:54.670
was using it and I thought that's a
1:25:52.030,1:25:59.350
great that's a great sort of way to sort
1:25:54.670,1:26:01.150
of make fun of the blockchain industry
1:25:59.350,1:26:02.980
or the blockchain narrative you know at
1:26:01.150,1:26:04.960
the end of the day I think that if
1:26:02.980,1:26:06.910
you're gonna be in this space you should
1:26:04.960,1:26:09.970
be doing it because you want to have fun
1:26:06.910,1:26:13.109
and I also think that you know in the
1:26:09.970,1:26:14.820
that also pseudonym and anonymity
1:26:13.109,1:26:17.550
is an important thing I don't
1:26:14.820,1:26:19.260
necessarily see you know a reason to
1:26:17.550,1:26:20.729
like use always use your real name and
1:26:19.260,1:26:22.019
everything and part of being on the
1:26:20.729,1:26:24.419
Internet is sort of having an identity
1:26:22.019,1:26:27.059
as well that isn't necessarily your own
1:26:24.419,1:26:28.889
identity and you can have in many
1:26:27.059,1:26:30.300
different types of identities but yeah I
1:26:28.889,1:26:32.999
would love for people to come read my
1:26:30.300,1:26:36.479
articles if you just go to brick string
1:26:32.999,1:26:39.629
dot tech on your web browser it'll
1:26:36.479,1:26:43.709
redirect to my medium blog and you can
1:26:39.629,1:26:45.769
read my articles there ok mr. brick
1:26:43.709,1:26:47.849
string who wants to remain anonymous
1:26:45.769,1:26:50.809
thank you very much for this interview
1:26:47.849,1:26:53.399
and I'm happy that we got to talk
1:26:50.809,1:26:56.820
thanks it looks like at some points in
1:26:53.399,1:26:59.820
the future we can just have more
1:26:56.820,1:27:02.399
discussions as you know we find out more
1:26:59.820,1:27:04.889
we make new discoveries we have many
1:27:02.399,1:27:08.519
more events and phenomena which take
1:27:04.889,1:27:11.669
place and our views adjust accordingly
1:27:08.519,1:27:13.649
and I hope that I will be having this
1:27:11.669,1:27:16.739
podcast for a long time even though
1:27:13.649,1:27:18.300
financially speaking I'm I'm taking a
1:27:16.739,1:27:20.939
loss with this one I could be making
1:27:18.300,1:27:22.709
money well I'm recording this but it's
1:27:20.939,1:27:25.289
useful at the same time for me to learn
1:27:22.709,1:27:28.709
new stuff new insights but this was a
1:27:25.289,1:27:32.010
long Bona log that probably nobody will
1:27:28.709,1:27:32.999
listen to so thank you very much yeah
1:27:32.010,1:27:34.590
you've done a great job with your
1:27:32.999,1:27:38.159
podcasts thanks so much for having me on
1:27:34.590,1:27:41.070
I tried but just you know if I get any
1:27:38.159,1:27:44.189
donations or this particular episode
1:27:41.070,1:27:48.239
you're going to get 50% of everything in
1:27:44.189,1:27:50.629
BTC and you can use it for anything that
1:27:48.239,1:27:54.119
you like it's part of your sovereignty
1:27:50.629,1:27:59.189
thanks so much fun your time is valuable
1:27:54.119,1:28:01.309
so good bye good bye bye thanks so much
1:27:59.189,1:28:01.309
again
1:28:07.410,1:28:09.470
you
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