Layer Two Labs CEO Paul Sztorc begins his defense of Roger Ver in a characteristically funny and somewhat self-deprecating fashion: “Well, I just wanted to throw my hat in the ring, you know. Free Roger! I think that, it’s true that, Roger hired me away from where I was working at Yale. So I guess that just means I’m a paid shill and everyone should ignore everything that I have to say.”

Yet for the remaining 3 hours and 45 minutes, Sztorc presents a series of very compelling arguments about what Bitcoin was like in 2014 and why the charges against Roger Ver are blown out of proportion – to the point that the entire case might be the result of a targeted witch hunt.

Also, financing the startups which laid the foundation of an entire industry is no small feat. Even if some bitcoiners felt let down by Roger’s endorsement of the Bitcoin Cash fork, they can’t erase his contributions from history. Among the toxic maximalist circles, BitPay is mostly remembered today for pushing the SegWit2X project in 2017 – but what the company managed to accomplish only a few years prior was pivotal in Bitcoin’s history. After all, enabling BTC payments to some of the most popular merchants and services was a big deal in an era when the best-known use case was buying drugs on Silk Road.

BitPay provided a much-needed counterbalance to the “black market money” narrative, which kept the regulators at bay and in a state of relative confusion in a time when the Bitcoin project was younger and more memorable. And for many OGs including Paul Sztorc, being able to convert their internet money into physical objects was truly magical.

There’s also a lot to be said about Blockchain.com, a tool which enabled non-technical bitcoiners to visualize their transactions just by pasting addresses. It was a major breakthrough which also raised awareness about Bitcoin’s lack of privacy and unintentionally accelerated the development of blockchain analysis companies. Without Roger Ver, this kind of service wouldn’t be available to regular users so early on.

One can also make the case for the virtues of secessionism and how Bitcoin Cash showed everyone that communities surrounding decentralized projects can disagree, fight for their diverging vision, and eventually settle the dispute with free open source code. Though it wasn’t Roger Ver but Amaury Sechet who created Bitcoin Cash, advocacy for different ways to upgrade the software is important and teaches the entire ecosystem important lessons.

Overall, I believe that having Roger Ver active in the world of Bitcoin is a net benefit and he’s much more useful in this role than sitting behind bars for a tax evasion charge that doesn’t even come with clear terms of payment. Personally, I agree with the points Paul Sztorc has made and have signed the petition to free Roger Ver. If you agree with the ideas, I recommend that you sign it too. Also make sure you read the Motion to Dismiss to better understand the nuances of the case. Even if you still hate Roger and think he turned “Judas” in 2017 when he supported a chain split, even if you believe that the existing charges are “karmic justice” for other issues from the past, he is still a valuable asset to the entire community who invests money in various projects and reminds everyone about the libertarian roots of this movement. It’s better to have Roger Ver around to speak his mind than to completely surrender to the temptation of Saylorism. Free Roger, then let’s continue the fight to fix the money!

As for Paul Sztorc, I have a lot of respect for the fact that he still remembers the days when there was Bitcoin and nothing else… and he’s working every day to build the tools that might reunite the community. Hats off to his Drivechains initiative, may he one day conquer the BIP process and convince the miners to activate the soft fork!

Listen to Paul Sztorc talking about Roger Ver’s case on YouTube, Twitter/X, Spotify, Apple Podcasts & More!

This episode is sponsored by LayerTwo Labs, SideShift.ai, Citrea, NoOnes.com, Bitcoin.Com News, and HODLing.ch

Time stamps for this interview:

Introducing Paul Sztorc (00:00:54)
Paul’s Connection with Roger Ver (00:01:42)
Roger Ver’s Contributions (00:02:54)
Challenges at Mt. Gox (00:03:59)
Bitcoin’s Early Days (00:05:05)
The Evolution of Bitcoin Conferences (00:06:18)
Tax Evasion Claims and Bitcoin’s Value (00:08:23)
Roger’s Generosity and Alliances (00:10:34)
The Block Size War (00:11:39)
Michael Saylor’s Skepticism (00:12:29)
Roger’s Early Bitcoin Investments (00:13:13)
Roger’s Influence and Marketing (00:14:26)
The Role of BitPay (00:15:38)
Roger’s Vision for Bitcoin (00:18:48)
Aftermath of the Block Size War (00:20:06)
Playing the Villain (00:20:45)
The Scammer Accusation (00:21:18)
The Block Size Debate (00:21:35)
Satoshi’s Conflicted Views (00:22:22)
Mt. Gox Video Controversy (00:24:23)
Self-Custody Awareness (00:25:03)
Roger’s Involvement with Mt. Gox (00:26:57)
Historical Context of Criticism (00:29:06)
Debate Dynamics (00:31:00)
Roger’s Support of Craig Wright (00:36:22)
Legal Battles with Craig Wright (00:40:14)
Romance Scams and Reporting (00:40:53)
Karmic Justice and Roger Ver (00:44:16)
Chaos Climbers in the Bitcoin Community (00:45:03)
Debate Analysis: Samson vs. Roger in 2018 (00:46:02)
Clipping and Public Perception (00:48:11)
Economic Growth and Human Welfare (00:49:07)
Performativity in Bitcoin Discourse (00:50:26)
Debate Takeaways and Misrepresentation (00:51:08)
Scaling Solutions: Lightning vs. Bitcoin Cash (00:52:13)
Hard Forks and Community Splits (00:54:43)
Victimless Crimes in Forks (00:57:54)
Toxic Bitcoin Maximalism (00:58:41)
Conception of Money and Community (00:59:03)
Ethereum as the Opposition (01:00:28)
Network Effects and Complacency (01:00:52)
Block Size War and Ethereum’s Rise (01:01:40)
Scaling Challenges in Bitcoin (01:02:52)
Layer Two Labs Promotion (01:04:00)
Drivechains vs. Tree Chains (01:05:15)
Bitcoin.com News Collaboration (01:08:40)
Critique of Current Thought Leaders (01:09:46)
Exit Tax Controversy (01:11:20)
Berlin Wall Explanation (01:21:19)
The Berlin Wall Discussion (01:23:06)
Roger Ver’s Moral Responsibility (01:27:02)
Exit Tax Controversy (01:27:30)
Roger Ver’s Legal Representation (01:28:09)
Greg Maxwell’s Threats (01:29:33)
Birthday Surprise (01:30:18)
Tax Law Complications (01:32:07)
Jameson Lopp’s Tweet (01:35:14)
CoinFlex Bankruptcy Discussion (01:37:01)
Roger’s Video Explanation (01:39:14)
Legal Challenges and Persecution (01:42:43)
Vindictiveness of the Blocksize War (01:43:46)
Discussion on Roger Ver’s Bitcoin Contributions (01:44:56)
Twitter Controversies and Public Perception (01:46:00)
Taxation and IRS Issues (01:49:02)
Critique of Tax System (01:50:05)
Roger Ver’s Future and Clemency (01:52:39)
Plea Deals and Coercion in Legal System (02:01:29)
Justice System Inequities (02:03:59)
Introduction to Alexander Vinnik (02:05:07)
Comparison with Roger Ver (02:06:18)
Plea Deals and Legal System Issues (02:06:39)
Vinnik’s Sentencing and Release (02:08:39)
Negotiations for Prisoner Exchange (02:09:50)
Details on the Trade (02:10:46)
Question from the Audience (02:12:54)
The Exodus Question (02:13:02)
Forking Bitcoin Discussion (02:15:17)
Cultural Apathy in Bitcoin Community (02:20:15)
Future of Bitcoin and Sidechains (02:22:33)
Discussion on Bitcoin Market Dynamics (02:27:41)
Contention in Bitcoin Governance (02:28:31)
Concerns Over Bitcoin’s Cultural Issues (02:30:31)
Measuring Decentralization (02:31:58)
Critique of Mining Centralization (02:32:08)
Transparency and Decentralization (02:34:03)
State Rejection of Bitcoin Reserves (02:40:55)
Bitcoin’s Role in Black Market Transactions (02:44:27)
Roleplay Request on BTC vs BCH (02:48:10)
Orthodox Plan for Scaling (02:49:21)
Competition and Market Share (02:50:39)
Libertarian Party Dynamics (02:53:11)
Libertarian Vote in Elections (02:54:52)
Trump’s Influence on Libertarians (02:56:40)
Free Ross Campaign Strategy (02:59:17)
Comparing Cryptocurrency Market Positions (03:01:56)
Bitcoin Cash Capabilities (03:02:50)
Historical Context of Bitcoin Development (03:04:12)
Language and Technological Change (03:06:27)
Early Bitcoin Innovations (03:09:39)
Ossification and Innovation in Blockchain (03:11:36)
Programming Languages Debate (03:12:43)
Bitcoin’s Imperfections (03:14:15)
Vulnerabilities in Bitcoin (03:15:21)
Power Dynamics in Bitcoin Development (03:16:41)
John Dillon’s Controversial Emails (03:18:00)
Coinjoin Bounty Scandal (03:20:19)
The Role of Competition in Development (03:22:14)
Roger Ver’s Legal Troubles (03:25:28)
Mail Fraud Charges Against Roger Ver (03:27:12)
Hypothetical Perspective on Roger Ver (03:28:44)
Thoughts on Taxation and Consent (03:32:32)
Tax Dollars and Freedom (03:33:53)
Exit Tax Debate (03:35:06)
Roger Ver’s Legal Battle (03:36:04)
Future Tax Laws and Risks (03:36:30)
Legal Precedents and Justice (03:37:53)
Political Influence on Justice (03:38:58)
Dignity in Departure (03:39:29)
Logistics of a Pardon (03:40:30)
Tax Law Evolution (03:41:53)
Legal Advice and Accountability (03:43:14)
Closing Remarks and Thanks (03:44:15)