Saunter (@StackingSaunter on Twitter) is a popular European bitcoiner who’s in charge of design and user experience improvements at Alby Wallet. As a Lightning network enthusiast, he frequently travels around the world to join the communities where paying with BTC is part of daily life – and throughout our conversation, Saunter mentions his experiences in Costa Rica, Guatemala, and El Salvador.

This episode also features a live demo of the latest version of Alby wallet from February 2025. A central component of our discussion is Alby’s transition from a custodial wallet to a much more advanced suite of features and applications that also grants users the ability to become truly sovereign via self-custody. While Alby started out as a simple browser extension for bitcoin payments (the initial project by Bumi was called Joule), it has evolved tremendously over the years and there’s an entire ecosystem of integrations and apps that’s built around it.

If you’d like to learn more about the philosophy behind the Alby project, current trends and developments in the realm of the Lightning network, and the state of adoption in Latin America, you’re going to love this conversation with Saunter.

Listen to Saunter Talking About Alby on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Twitter/X, and More!

This episode is sponsored by Sideshift, Layer Two Labs, Citrea, Bitcoin.com News, NoOnes.com and Hodling.ch!

Time stamps:

Introducing Saunter (00:00:51)

Evolution of Alby Wallet (00:01:38)

Functionalities of the Alby Wallet (00:02:26)

Lightning Business Model Challenges (00:05:46)

Bitcoin as a Medium of Exchange (00:07:45)

Adoption in Central America (00:09:55)

Degrees of Bitcoin Adoption (00:12:59)

Integration with Local Payment Systems (00:18:07)

Educational Initiatives in El Salvador (00:20:43)

Current State of Adoption (00:22:43)

Chivo Wallet (00:25:46)

Top-Down Adoption Issues (00:28:10)

Grassroots Initiatives (00:30:46)

Alby Wallet Features (00:35:33)

Nostr Integration (00:36:08)

Programmability of Bitcoin Lightning (00:39:57)

Self-Hosting and Lightning Network (00:43:49)

Future of Alby and User Accounts (00:46:27)

Exploring Alby Wallet Options (00:51:48)

Popular Apps on Alby (00:52:25)

Point of Sale App Development (00:53:44)

Isolated Balance Feature (00:55:07)

User Experience with Alby App (00:56:30)

Recommendations for Implementations (00:57:00)

App Store Insights (00:58:00)

Connecting Alby with Accounts (00:59:51)

Channel Management and Backups (01:01:29)

User Data Privacy Concerns (01:02:35)

Benefits of Adding Alby to Full Nodes (01:04:14)

Enhancing Node Capabilities (01:08:26)

Inspiration for UX Design (01:12:56)

User Testing Insights (01:15:56)

Evolution of Lightning Wallets (01:16:52)

Branding and Design Philosophy (01:17:53)

Concerns About Security Exploits (01:19:25)

Adoption Challenges and Perspectives (01:22:47)

Bitcoin vs. Stablecoins (01:26:41)

Market Dynamics and Adoption Rates (01:29:08)

Future of Bitcoin Security (01:30:39)

Interconnectedness of Bitcoin Systems (01:33:43)

Challenges with Stablecoins on Lightning (01:37:31)

Future Changes to Bitcoin Protocol (01:39:21)

Discussion on Block Size Increase (01:40:42)

Data Compression in Blocks (01:41:24)

Cost of Verification Concerns (01:42:04)

Layer Two Experiments (01:42:25)

Risks of Layer One Changes (01:44:07)

Focus on Lightning Network Development (01:45:06)

Introducing Alby Wallet (01:45:29)

Onboarding New Users (01:45:45)

Benefits of Alby Hub (01:46:32)

User-Friendly Lightning Node Setup (01:47:46)

Following Saunter’s Work (01:48:27)